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Thread: The Seleucid Empire

  1. #541
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Actually, I think the mechanism for City Plumbing that adds to squalor, and hence unrest, is that it gives such a big boost to population growth. When I play any faction that gets advanced plumbing, I only build the next level when I absolutely have to. I've had plenty of occasions where a city reaches ZPG with only the basic sewer in place...hence no need to take it any further.

    Extermination should be a last resort based on circumstances, faction, and sometimes which city. Exterminating indeed costs you money over the long haul---less people>>>less taxes. Exterminating is very bad for cities with under 24k for those factions that can achieve that level (or if the city hasn't reached 6k for barbarian cultures), if that city doesn't yet have the max level governing structure. Having said that, there are several cities that are almost always extermination cases at any level over 12k...Carthage, Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, Alexandria, Memphis, to name several. All of those are "fast growers" so you regain population rather quickly, and you are buying time to put enough of your own structures into place to deal with the built-in 30% unrest. Many players have big problems with Carthage and the Nile cities, but I can get them to ZPG virtually every time with varying factions. I've found the biggest headaches are: #1 Tarsus; #2 Patavium; #3 Corduba; #4 Jerusalem. I simply HATE managing those cities It can be done without further extermination other than initially, but man is it work

    As far as turning Siwa over to the Macedonians....the boyz in blue will simply attack your ally to get it, and it's easier to defend if it's yours. No telling how long (if ever) it will take them to wrap it in stone, which means you can line the walls with archers and obliterate any besieging army. They will get a port built ASAP, and you will have annoying Roman biremes to contend with....and they will crank one out every single turn to slow population growth

    Extermination is a necessity because otherwise they would just kick me out the next turn and the romans get a huge army for free out of nowhere.
    Your conquering general should have a pile of Influence laurels....not management skills. It's influence that helps keep the population in check...management skills go towards how profitable the city will be. Most 5-10 star generals, if they've not spent much time in cities, will have a lot of laurettes....

    Anyway, the pickle is exclusively my fault for forgetting (underestimating) how crippling corruption can be.
    It's not the corruption but your economic plan that's at fault
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-11-2015 at 19:37.
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  2. #542
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Ok, I think I'm in the green now. Took the whole boot of Italy and Rome herself. A shame that my economy going down hell kind of sowered the campaign, if it wasn't for that I could probably try out companions, legionaries and kataellies, but I think it's too late for that. I need just 5 more cities, and all of them are towards the Alps. Made a lot of money from slaughtering romans, which got invested in more trade infrastructure.

    The Brutii are down to Segestica, so it's pretty much game over for them. The Scipii only have Africa, and they are caught between a crack army stationed in Carthage and another force that will move towards them from Siwa. The Julii are huge, spreading from North Italy to the steppes. The Parthians are still hanging around, but mostly everyone else is dead. The brits and spaniards are wanking around, they haven't done anything in the whole game. Oh, and those macedonians are between me and julii. I'll help them out.

  3. #543
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Actually, I think the mechanism for City Plumbing that adds to squalor, and hence unrest, is that it gives such a big boost to population growth. When I play any faction that gets advanced plumbing, I only build the next level when I absolutely have to. I've had plenty of occasions where a city reaches ZPG with only the basic sewer in place...hence no need to take it any further.

    Extermination should be a last resort based on circumstances, faction, and sometimes which city. Exterminating indeed costs you money over the long haul---less people>>>less taxes. Exterminating is very bad for cities with under 24k for those factions that can achieve that level (or if the city hasn't reached 6k for barbarian cultures), if that city doesn't yet have the max level governing structure. Having said that, there are several cities that are almost always extermination cases at any level over 12k...Carthage, Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, Alexandria, Memphis, to name several. All of those are "fast growers" so you regain population rather quickly, and you are buying time to put enough of your own structures into place to deal with the built-in 30% unrest. Many players have big problems with Carthage and the Nile cities, but I can get them to ZPG virtually every time with varying factions. I've found the biggest headaches are: #1 Tarsus; #2 Patavium; #3 Corduba; #4 Jerusalem. I simply HATE managing those cities It can be done without further extermination other than initially, but man is it work
    For me the main riot cities are: 1)Corduba 2)Dimmidi 3)Tanais 4)Cirta 5)Londinium. Corduba, Cirta, and Londinium are nice for phalanx factions, just pull out to the bridge and let them riot, then when they come, use the phalanx at the bridge, with crossed spears, so two phalanxes lined up at an angle to each other with their spear points crossing over your side of the foot of the bridge.
    One thing I have done, I will take a city that is at max level and just start training peasants in it, usually a full ream in the training section. Then I will take those peasants and put them in a town that needs to grow, usually a town or large town level, and disband them. I have killed two birds with one stone, reducing population, hence reducing squalor, in the large city; and increasing population in the small settlement.
    Something else I have taken to doing...If my enemy is blockading the port of a trade partner, I attack that enemy navy, hence opening that trade route up again. Used to be I might do that if they were blockading an ally, but now I do it if at all possible. I typically field four or five navies at least, each with at least five ships. Of course this is after my finances are good. Usually two quinquiremes and three triremes. I typically have at least two, preferable three, just in the Aegean Sea. One in Rhodes, one in Athens, and one in Pergamum. The Rhodes and Athens ones may also be at Kydonia, they shift around. England needs one, and the Med's east coast needs one. Then one for Africa and one or two for Italy. So that is more like seven or eight navies.
    At least this is not EB. A quinquireme costs 12000, and takes four turns to build. I think its upkeep is either 4000 or 7000 per turn. And your max trading port? 64000, taking 64 turns to build. Just an idea of the scale (and realism) of EB. Yeah, harder to turn a profit.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
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  4. #544
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Well, that was fast. I won the imperial campaign even faster than with the roman factions, the game ending in 213 BC. I had entertained the thought of waiting a while longer, so as to get a chance to try out seleucid legionaries and companion cavalry, but it would have been tedious to keep the Julii at bay in the meanwhile, the bastards having all of central and eastern Europe and no other enemy in sight. Oh well, maybe next time.

    So, if I was to wrap it up in a few short conclusions:

    1. never ever ever underestimate the capability of militia/levy armies. those guys are pure gold if used properly.

    2. don't overestimate the seleucid economic potential. keep troop production to the shores of the Mediterranean and develop economy everywhere else.

    3. nothing can stop silver shield pikes and cataphracts in a field battle. the pikes are tough as nails and and a flanking charge from those mail-covered maniacs is the classical equivalent of a loose cannon.

  5. #545
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    a flanking charge from those mail-covered maniacs is the classical equivalent of a loose cannon.
    So this might mean you are ready for an Armenian campaign?
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  6. #546
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by wooly_mammoth View Post
    those mail-covered maniacs is the classical equivalent of a loose cannon.
    What is a loose cannon?
    Now try Greece, if you haven't already. See what virtually unlimited funds is like, but worthless cav. Armoured Hoplites are great, though.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  7. #547
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Butler View Post
    What is a loose cannon?
    Loose cannon - A wild one. Someone who does not conform to the rest of society. A maverick. A guy who plays by his own rules and to hell with the consequences. Shows you what he can do.

    Multiply that by 54, add mail from rider's head to horse's hooves and maces.

    Anyway, for a little bit of personal history, I got into this game back around the time when it came out, but I was too young & dumb to master it, so I drifted away from it until about 2 years ago when I got back into reading history and OCD'd over it. I played an easy/easy greek campaign and won, and then decided to go for all the playable factions on M/M in the order they are listed in the menu. So I checked Julii, Brutii, Scipii, Egypt, Seleucid Empire. Next is Carthage. I plan my OCDs on the long-term, so I'll probably go Darthmod after I finish the vanilla challenge (I guess some factions like Carthage or the barbarians have a rather hard time) and play through everyone once again, given that there's also that really nice fat campaign map.

  8. #548
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    and then decided to go for all the playable factions on M/M in the order they are listed in the menu.
    You probably already know but in case you don't...all factions except for rebels are playable including the SPQR.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...Roman-Factions

    (Second post explains how...just in case)
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  9. #549
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    You probably already know but in case you don't...all factions except for rebels are playable including the SPQR.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...Roman-Factions

    (Second post explains how...just in case)
    Macedon...Oh, yeah. Lancers, Macedonian Cav, Companions, and Royal Pikemen! Only thing they lack is superb archers, and they can recruit lots of Cretans. Now I want to be Macedon again. Oh well, after my Scipii campaign.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  10. #550
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Macedon is my favorite Greek faction, of course, being the cavalry enthusiast that I am And Royal Pike might just be my favorite phalanx...even more than Sacred Band or Spartans. Might as well put the Jolly Roger on their fleets

    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-16-2015 at 10:14.
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  11. #551
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Macedon is my favorite Greek faction, of course, being the cavalry enthusiast that I am And Royal Pike might just be my favorite phalanx...even more than Sacred Band or Spartans. Might as well put the Jolly Roger on their fleets

    In my opinion, outside of Rome, Macedon is the best faction to be. Or Seleucia, one of the two. Location, phalanx with good defense (I think 17 instead of 14 for Silver Shields), very good medium cav (Macedonian Cav), awesome heavies(Companions), Lancers, who are one of the fastest units in the game, and who get a powerful charge even though they are light. Only thing missing is archers, and they are in position to hire Cretans. I don't really use elephants. I saw my brother use Armoured Elephants against Dacia. Yeah, Dacia got owned. Against Barbarians, with Elephants, you can just take town after town after town. And according to RS, AE almost never go amok.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  12. #552
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    In my opinion, outside of Rome, Macedon is the best faction to be. Or Seleucia, one of the two.
    Agree on Macedonia. Rugged phalanx, excellent cavalry, and ready access to 'Creeshan Archers'. Add to that, starting position, and they have to be in the top three.

    Lancers, who are one of the fastest units in the game, and who get a powerful charge even though they are light.
    I keep my best Lancers all the way to the end. Once infantry gets well advanced you can't let them get tangled up in line melee, but they are much like Shogun's Yari Cavalry....an anti-cavalry unit. Good screen for your heavier cav, and fast enough to chase down most routers.

    Not so much a Roman faction, IMHO. Unless you recruit mercs heavily, they are...well...boring. Now mind you, I play with Early Cohorts as maximum infantry, and no Praetorian Cavalry....The Scipii are most fun for me for the Decere Quinquereme and the Temple of Neptune. 5-star admiral's with their flag on a Decere RULE!

    And according to RS, AE almost never go amok.
    With the added notation that they need to be handled by your best generals, preferably a "cavalry" general.

    My top three favorites are: Armenia (what a surprise there)...Germania, and Macedonia.
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-17-2015 at 02:13.
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  13. #553
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Not so much a Roman faction, IMHO. Unless you recruit mercs heavily, they are...well...boring.
    Boring they can be. I have started using more ELC, my main army (in Britannia at the moment) are all ELC, Auxilia, and Roman cav (ok, some Light Auxilia and Archer Auxilia too). Against Egypt, I am fielding Legionaries, with one unit of Praetorian per army. I find the extra defense is necessary against their Pharoah's Bowmen. Oh well, at least no need to fear their cavalry. Hello, Auxilia. Who can fight well in their own right, just not good against swordsmen. Really, for excitement, use a horse archer faction or barbarians. Any of the barbarians are fun to play as (till the riots start and the money tanks for no reason.)
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  14. #554
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Any of the barbarians are fun to play as (till the riots start and the money tanks for no reason.)
    Doesn't happen to me anymore because...well...you know why




    ZPG
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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Doesn't happen to me anymore because...well...you know why




    ZPG
    I know, I know. I haven't played as Barbarian enough to figure it out. The main reason is the money thing. I can live with riots, and could probably figure out a way to reduce population growth. But the money is the problem with me. It will tank for no apparent reason. Take Italy first, that is apparent. Take out Rome before they get good. Then Greece and Spain.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  16. #556
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Doesn't happen to me anymore because...well...you know why




    ZPG
    I know, I know. I haven't played as Barbarian enough to figure it out. The main reason is the money thing. I can live with riots, and could probably figure out a way to reduce population growth. But the money is the problem with me. It will tank for no apparent reason. Take Italy first, that is apparent. Take out Rome before they get good. Then Greece and Spain.

    Sorry, double post. Any way to get rid of it?
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  17. #557
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Sorry, double post. Any way to get rid of it?
    Just highlight the text, delete it, and type in "dbl. post".

    Take Italy first, that is apparent. Take out Rome before they get good. Then Greece and Spain.
    Of course there are various ways to approach the cash problem as a barbarian faction, and here are my suggestions:

    As Germania, remove Britannia from Samarobriva and build a small fleet to prevent further landings on the mainland. You can cross later to deliver a knockout blow. The Gauls are the next target. Once you push to the Med, you now have a lot of coastal towns where you can build ports. Port trade should be your #1 priority, so ports up in the Baltic and a trade agreement with the Julii...even though you will be coming to blows with them at some point. From there, the choice is a matter of style, IMO. Be aggressive and launch into Italy (be prepared to fight the big SPQR army, though), or go for a healthy economy by taking Iberia with it's mines and port towns (every town in Iberia can build a port). I usually go after Iberia because it's a very tough go against the SPQR early (the troops they have depends on the difficulty level...at VH/VH they have Cohorts and Praetorians). Once I get to Chosen Archers, Chosen Axmen, Zerkers, and Gothic Cavalry, it's bye-bye Romans. The "economic" pathway allows me to have several full stacks of Germania's finest to rip the heart out of the Romans.

    As Gaul, it's more or less the reverse of what you do as Germania, except you already have a town in Iberia, and you need not overrun all of Germania. You will, however, have to deal with the Julii in close proximity.

    It's actually easier to play Germania, Gaul, or the Spaniards than Parthia or Scythia because of the ability to get port trading with most of the towns you capture.
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-17-2015 at 23:50.
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  18. #558
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    So on a whim I started another Seleucid campaign, instead of Macedon. But on M/M now, a definite difference. I lost Seleucia to Parthia's all cav army, but took it right back. I lost Hatra, somehow, the Eastern Infantry forced their way through my Militia Hoplites. They did not rout as fast as I am used to. And the Scipii took Halicarnassus, I have not yet retaken it. My nearest settlement is Sardis, but I need to keep a strong force in Sardis to ward off Pontus, and my money supply only allows for one main army. Which is in Athens at the moment. When I took Athens, my money supply instantly started doing better, or course. Corinth or Larissa is next, probably Larissa to get trade with Asia Minor. And somehow I went to war with Greece. Don't know how that happened. Now that I am getting stone walls, defense is a lot easier.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  19. #559
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Strange that to you lost the eastern territories. Militia hoplites can actually stand against early Parthian/Armenian armies if they have numerical superiority. Keep them on loose formation and have a general around to pancake the cataphracts when they charge. Be wary of the yellow doom moving upon you from the south now. I'd suggesting holding on for dear life to Antioch and Damascus, otherwise you will be unable to train elephants which are a great advantage to your armies.

  20. #560
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by wooly_mammoth View Post
    Strange that to you lost the eastern territories. Militia hoplites can actually stand against early Parthian/Armenian armies if they have numerical superiority. Keep them on loose formation and have a general around to pancake the cataphracts when they charge. Be wary of the yellow doom moving upon you from the south now. I'd suggesting holding on for dear life to Antioch and Damascus, otherwise you will be unable to train elephants which are a great advantage to your armies.
    It was the stinking Horse Archers of Parthia. I did not have enough military to beat them, I think I had one Peltast, one general, two Militia Cav, and three or four Militia Hoplites. Hatra, I don't know what happened. I think six or seven EI units overwhelmed, in the street, four Militia Hoplite units. I had other units too, I think a missile unit. They had one or two Hillmen and a general. Still, they all came down one street, and I had two MH barricading the street with the other two positioned right behind them. I still have to reclaim Hatra, but don't have the funds for an army for that.
    Egypt I am not worried about, their strength right now is Chariots, who get owned by Phalanx. At this point, with Seleucia, I fight more defensively, wiping out their armies in my towns, and then striking when they are weak. Of course, Egypt has an infinite number of large armies in any given area.
    I don't use Elephants, for the same reason I don't use Spartan Hoplites or First Cohort; they only can be trained in limited places. That said, I know what they do to Chariots, and will probably use them some in the east against Egypt when I actually move to take Egypt out. They are expensive, though. Now that I have Phalanx Pikemen, I am doing better. Even Levy Pikemen are better than Militia Hoplites. I used to not use them because of a lower defense, and I have definitely seen the result of the low defense. They take casualties very easily. But they make up for it with more attack. And more men. Still, they are no substitute for Phalanx Pikemen. Right now I have not been able to afford an Army Barracks for Silver Shields.
    I like bridge defense, so once I get some onagers I will play along those lines as well. Egypt and Rome like siege weaponry, so I like to have some to counter.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  21. #561
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Well, I'll just recap what I did in the early game. The seleucid starting economy allows you to pump ~12 units of militia hoplites in Sardis, Hatra and Seleucia. With those kinds of numbers you can hold Pontus, Armenia and Parthia at bay. For Parthia & Armenia, use loose formation and rout their ground troops. Horse archers will be annoying but with a bit of skill you can sandwich them between phalanx units, if not they will withdraw anyway once the ground troops are gone. Catatanks should be allowed to charge in a hoplite formation and then pancaked by a general. Enemy generals should be lured by your own general in a spear sandwich. Never take a siege on, use number superiority and sally out the first turn. After you destroy the first Parthian army, buy some mercs and move the battle to them by conquering Susa. It's a great city in the early game, even if the province itself is very poor. For now keep a defensive war against these factions and go full nelson against Egypt. Once they are destroyed you can move simultaneously against rebel territories, Pontus, what's left of Parthia and Armenia.

    You are now dominating the east and have already won the game actually. From what I reckon, you got yourself in a bit of a pickle, I hope you make it out succesfully.

    I never-ever-never use siege weapons because they are WAY too slow and WAY too inaccurate. To counter enemy siege-fire (if it's worth it, a punny ballista is not worth bothering), I either use cavarly precision strikes to wipe them out (be careful not to lose the cav though) or use archers (loose formation is self-understood) to focus fire on the crews. You can try to use flaming arrows to burn the siege weapons down, but I think it's actually faster to wittle the crew down with regular fire.

    In my opinion, you're missing out by not using elephants. There's no need to charge them through the enemy, simply having them in the back will deal a significant morale penalty. Very useful against the romans. Just keep them safe agaist any kind of flaming attacks.
    Last edited by wooly_mammoth; 03-29-2015 at 07:17.

  22. #562
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Strange that you're having economic difficulties as Seleucia Besides one of the better army rosters in the game, a hefty income is another of their strong suits. WM's suggestion of striking against the Big E is certainly a very viable option. Of all the enemies surrounding Seleucia, they are the most dangerous as I'm sure you already know. However, the combined harassment from Parthia, Pontus, Armenia, and eventually the Greek Cities will have you fighting an expensive multiple-front war.

    When I play the Selkies, I like to take care of my "back end" before striking out for the Nile. Every city in Anatolia is a port city except for Ancyra, and that means sea trade. Removing the Greek Cities from Pergamum nets you a well developed city that's an excellent candidate for a temple of Hephaestus and a training center. Collecting Halicarnassus nets a third 'Wonder' (to go along with the two you already own). Taking Nicomedia and Sinope gains two more excellent port cities, and you can completely remove Pontus from the game by taking Ancyra and Mazaka. To complete the trade route circle, take Salamis and Rhodes. With Rhodes, you get a fourth 'Wonder' and a 40% boost to sea trade. At this point, you will start to have more money than you can spend (even on Ellies).

    Parthia and Armenia (as played by the AI) cannot compete even with your mid-level troops, and cease to be a viable threat. You can raise a couple of armies at your leisure to destroy them whenever you wish.

    You can now turn your eye to the Nile with a strong economy capable of creating whatever armies/navies you need, and you have your enemy in front of you.

    Your armies win you battles, your economy wins the war
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-29-2015 at 16:49.
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  23. #563
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Strange that you're having economic difficulties as Seleucia
    Maybe losing Hatra hurt me. I was doing fine, but I think having to maintain garrisons hurt. Like I said, taking Athens helped me out already. Larissa is next.
    I think I overestimated the abilities of Militia Hoplites early on. On E/E, they would have done just fine. And the Scipii going after Turkey is unusual, though by no means unheard of. Halicarnassus and Rhodes are definitely targets of priority, after Larissa. Greece will probably bite it before, though, Pergamum.
    I don't have Cataphracts yet. I have not been able to afford that level of stables, maintaining infantry, walls, and income takes priority over cavalry for me. I am an infantry general, though I can definitely adjust my tactics to cav, I just like infantry better.
    I never-ever-never use siege weapons because they are WAY too slow and WAY too inaccurate.
    What I am talking about is at a bridge. My phalanx have their pikes crossed over my end of the bridge, and the enemy gets wasted as they come across. If siege is present, they can bombard my phalanx, who are sitting ducks. My own onagers can counter that.
    Phalanx Pikemen don't have great morale, neither is it poor. I have had one unit rout after just two volleys of pilum. They had been sitting in my town, not moving, yet they ran before actually engaging. Fortunately they were backed up by other units.
    Last edited by Vincent Butler; 03-30-2015 at 04:38.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  24. #564
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    OK, started a new Seleucid campaign. Of course went to war with Egypt quickly (they are no longer with us), Pontus, Parthia, Armenia, and Greece. Rome followed soon after. Greece got powerful, wiped out Macedon and Thrace. They kicked the Brutii out of Greece and even took Patavium, probably from Gaul. But they still have it. I have never seen Greece train Spartans before. Now, I have seen five or six Spartan units, not including the ones that were in Sparta when I took it. Also seeing huge armies with ten or more units of Armoured Hoplites. Don't know how many times my Cataphracts have saved my bacon, the AH are pushing into my Phalanx Pikemen, and I hit from the side with Cataphracts, who go to town with their maces. Yeah, Cataphracts are awesome. Julii have Tarentum and Croton, who had gone rebel.

    Parthia is a nonfactor. Armenia and Pontus keep hitting Hatra, but a spy opens the gates, so they all just rush the open gates, where my phalanx is sitting waiting for them. Any sapping units are handled by Elephants or Cataphracts. They are fielding lots of Cataphract Archers, which of course aren't much good crowding through a gateway with Eastern Infantry and other units, into a waiting phalanx.

    I have one unit of Silver Shield Pikemen in each army in addition to my Phalanx Pikemen, but frankly think SSP are a waste of money. They are only marginally better than Phalanx Pikemen, and require an Army Barracks and two turns to build. They should have been a lot better, historically the Agyraspids were very formidable. I don't even bother with Silver Shield Legionaries in my armies, since they require a Royal Barracks. Only one army has Companion Cav, for the same problem of Royal Stables.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  25. #565

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    With most phalanx factions, the phalanx should be the anvil for the hammer of heavy cav. The Seleucids are THE prime example of this. Cats and Companions should be what wins battles for you. If you run with that strategy, phalanx pikes do a good enough job to pin the enemy in place. SSP are a little better, but not worth the time or money needed to keep them on a fast moving campaign. Once you get into Greece and Rome you can use them more because the barracks in those cities are generally built up enough. SSL are just a bonus unit that adds to the flexibility of your army.

    Against lots of AH, I would try to fight more battles on the open field rather than in cities. The Greeks have no answer to heavy cav going around the flank, even their generals aren't much in a fight. Whittle their armies to pieces with the Archers of Crete, pin the battle line with the Phalanx Pikemen, then smash them with the Cats! Simple!

  26. #566
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    but frankly think SSP are a waste of money. They are only marginally better than Phalanx Pikemen
    When you look at the unit stats, that seems to be the case. 10/14 (attk/def) for the SSP vs 8/13 for the Phalanx Pike hardly seems worth the cost both for purchase and upkeep. Having said that, a close counterpart to the SSP's, the Macedonian Royal Pike, are one of my favorite phalanx units. Tough with a capital T. The extra 3 points on the defensive side seems to help, and even though 17 is still lower than the Armored Hoplites 22, the extra mass the unit has makes up for it, IMHO.

    Whittle their armies to pieces with the Archers of Crete
    Amen. In a Seleucid campaign, I once fought a battle just outside Sardis on an extremely high hill with only 5 units of "Creeshan Arshers" against a dozen Armored Hoplites. On level ground, I wouldn't even have attempted it, but because the AH had to make that tortuous climb, they got exhausted and thoroughly trashed before they even got close. As a bonus, the Cretan captain got the "Man-of-the-Hour" special and promoted to general. Sweet!
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 01-24-2017 at 14:01.
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  27. #567
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    When you look at the unit stats, that seems to be the case. 10/14 (attk/def) for the SSP vs 8/13 for the Phalanx Pike hardly seems worth the cost both for purchase and upkeep. Having said that, a close counterpart to the SSP's, the Macedonian Royal Pike, are one of my favorite phalanx units. Tough with a capital T. The extra 3 points on the defensive side seems to help, and even though 17 is still lower than the Armored Hoplites 22, the extra mass the unit has makes up for it, IMHO.
    I love the Royal Pikes. Although for realism's sake I only have one or two in my armies.



    For their level, the Armoured Hoplites are the best unit in the game, in my opinion, though arguments could be made for ELC and Chosen Swordsmen. I don't use much Cretans on the campaign because they are only available in a limited region, and I try to have my upgrades uniform, and then I have to worry about sending them into a city before they join my army, which is more hassle than I want to put up with once my army moves out of the region. Though I certainly do use them.

    In this current Seleucid campaign, no Macedonian cities had temples to Artemis. Really annoying, as I want the extra attack to my missile units. Now I have to wait till I get a Gallic city with one to Abnoba. Bylazora has a Dacian temple, which tells you how fast Macedon capitulated.
    Last edited by Vincent Butler; 01-24-2017 at 19:55.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  28. #568

    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    The one major weakness of the Seleucid army is their ranged units. For that reason alone, Cretan Archers are valuable to a Seleucid commander. And their limited region covers a large portion of the eastern Med. Should be fairly simple to keep a supply of them heading to the campaign front. Without good archers, I would bring light cav along, including some skirmisher cav. Unless you want your Cats and Companions tied down attacking the enemy's skirmishers.

  29. #569
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch the Mace View Post
    Without good archers, I would bring light cav along, including some skirmisher cav. Unless you want your Cats and Companions tied down attacking the enemy's skirmishers.
    I always have light cav anyway, but Militia Cav are worthless, in my opinion. They get very few kills, especially for as many javelins as they throw. Greek Cav get a better charge bonus and are better in hand-to-hand fighting. I have some skirmisher cav in my army because it was formed before I got Greek Cav, and they have multiple silver chevrons, so I keep them, but I am not impressed. Of course, I am probably using them wrong, sitting behind a phalanx, but then again, they were only there to be my light cav, and they got good enough to keep around. They probably do better going out and harassing infantry, but then I have to worry about enemy archers and cavalry, and if the battle gets hairy and I am focusing on keeping the missile cav alive, I lose track of my main line, which is what I am more concerned about.

    I don't even bother sending Cataphracts after light infantry as a rule, though I do use Companion Cav if they have nothing better to do. Of course, I prefer using Companions to deal with enemy cavalry or the heavy infantry. Also I have my cav use their alternate weapons, usually, unless it is Cataphracts hitting unarmoured units. The swords most heavy cav carry have a better attack than their spears.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  30. #570
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Seleucid Empire

    The one major weakness of the Seleucid army is their ranged units
    This is true for many other factions as well, the most annoying of which might be the Carthaginians, who don't even get a vanilla archer unit unless one mods them in. I suspect the devs made Cretans available to help with the shortcomings of those rosters that lack decent ranged units. Heck, I use the 'Creshans' even when I play Armenia, which has the best mounted archer unit in the game, in my assault armies.

    I don't use much Cretans on the campaign because they are only available in a limited region
    They are available in three regions, IIRC. Crete, of course, Phrygia, and Aetolia. Both Crete and Phrygia will have two units available (with those in Crete having a +1 attack bonus), and a single unit in Aetolia. It takes time to build up numbers, but I've never been limited except by available funds. Cretan units that get severely damaged go to the replacement pool. I find a suitable place to build a fort and put them in there along with any other merc replacements. Keeps them away from the plague For very long distances, a very large fleet sitting offshore works nicely
    High Plains Drifter

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