Gaul

[Dominii]

Hi everyone, I've just started playing as Gaul in RTW and I've noticed that whilst all my other settlements are making money or have a + income, both Patavium and Mediolanum seem to be hemorraghing money with as much as -1200 a turn. Has anyone else had this and is there any way to fix it?

I'm currently not at war with anyone due to playing M/H but since I lowered my taxes to promote growth to get those lovely forrester warbands my economy has stunted so I'm slowly loosing a few 100 denarii a turn and not gaining any.

Is there any way to boost the income from both Alpine cities?


Dominii.

[Ludens]

IIRC Patavium and Mediolanum are the biggest cities of the Gauls. This means that they pay the lion's share of your unit and agent upkeep. The cost for supporting your units and agents is divided over the cities on a population basis, with the bigger cities paying the most. So these cities are not actually costing you money (no city ever does) and attempts to bring in more cash need not be limited to these cities.

The best way of making money in this game is by trade, especially sea trade. Ports should therefore be your first priority, followed by traders. Patavium is a real money spinner when developed. Do keep in mind though that there has to be something valuable in the province to make trade worthwile: check potential benefits in the city detail screen before deciding. A second option to gain more cash is by building farm upgrades, but I would stay clear of those except in provinces with a low growth rate. You cannot demolish them once built and in an already fast-growing city like Mediolanum this leads to massive squalor. The third option is obvious: get your best manager to manage you high income cities. Don't be guide by what is says on the campaign-map: go to the city detail to see which city is really making the most cash. Also, pay attention to traits and ancillaries: traders are more useful in Patavium than in Mediolanum. Lastly, see if you can reduce your expenses to army upkeep by disbanding a few useless units.

Welcome to the Org, BTW .

[gardibolt]

What Ludens said. Essentially, the numbers under each city are just an accounting figure and not anything to get concerned about. You're not actually losing money in that city. People=more tax income=more expense of armies allocated to them. On the whole, you're better off with more people, especially early in the game.

[Dominii]

Having read a few others posts on here, I thought I'd contribute with my Gaul campaign so far.....

Having taken all advice from Ludens and other posts on here, I started again on M/M with a few surprising results. Having captured the rebel provinces of Lugdunum, Massilia and Segestica and parked stacks on all the bridges in Northern Italy to deter the Julii I set about making trade agreements with the Britons, Germans, Spanish, Carthiginians, Roman Factions bar the Brutii and most of the other barbarian factions in northern Europe. That was in addition to dropping the taxes in Patavium and Mediolanum to get access to the forresters quicker. I spent the next few turns adding to the stacks on the bridges and training more units in Alesia for the inevitable attack by the brits.

By this point I'd allied with Rome, the Julii and the Scipii in the hopes of seeing off war for a bit longer, Spain to protect my border and Germania, Dacia and Thrace in order to create a barbarian alliance to combat and/or distract the Romans once they attacked. Then the strangest thing happened.......the Spanish attacked the Julii. Of course I had to side with the Romans as they were a more pressing concern on my southern border, and with the Spanish busy against the Romans they wouldn't cause me much concern. By now I had 2 3/4 full stacks on the bridges and another one hovering around Alesia as a deterrent against the strangely quiet Brits.

Using spies and diplomats, I saw the Julii's territory strangely devoid of troops so seized my chance, sent one stack to Segesta, one to Arinimum and one to Arretium. They all soon fell, bar Arinimum which the triple chevroned 1/2 stack SPQR army helped to relieve the siege of. I decided to fight them one army at a time. Suffice to say, the Senate army quickly folded against my army's warcry, druids and surprise appearance from hiding in the forest. This was greatly helped by them having to march all the way across the battlefield and up a steep hill to get to me. No more than a handful survived.

Having dealt with that threat, I laid siege to Arinimum again and had the 1/2 stack garrison vanish upon the sally turn. After exterminating the populace I set about retraining my troops ready for the assault on a now detrementally weakened Rome. At around this time the Britons declared war against Germany, but with not enough troops in that area, and a menacing Briton full stack hanging around Samarabrinova I decided against striking the British exposed backside.

Sending out a silver weaponed, triple bronze chevron, bronze armoured army of warbands, swordsmen, some barbarian cavalry and 6 forrester warbands against Rome, I had to retreat when I came under attack from two sides from beseiging their fort just south of the mountains south west or Arinimum. This allowed me to destroy the captained army that followed and attacked again. This left all but one Senate family members in the fort and just 3 units in Rome itself. After starving the fort into sallying, it was an absolute delight watching the forrester warbands tear apart the Romans before they even reached my line. I did suffer casualties as I had to attack into the fort due to the arrows running out. But with the fort gone, 4 out of 5 Senate family dead and only a small army left in Rome, it was a simple matter of beseiging the city with siege towers to send troops around capturing the towers which would be in my path to the square. Rome quickly fell.

I then retrained that army, and just in time as the Scipii had nicely recalled probably all their armies to Capua and decided to lay seige to Rome with one of them. Fortunately, I sallied forth, keeping my forresters on top of the walls to drive the Romans back (there's nothing better than gold weaponed forresters ) By the time my army was deployed the chorus of retreat was heard and I sped my cavalry and fresh troops straight towards the retreat point of the enemy, cutting down half their army on the way. The same thing happened a few turns later. At last count, the Scipii have about 4 full stacks sat West of Capua, threatening any further expansion by my forces.

In the mean time, I had a diplomat make an Alliance with the Spanish to re-protect my borders there and discovered to my horror, a Julii captured Osca along with a full stack garrison. Unfortunately, the stupid Spanish had been sending weak and small detatchments of troops to try to recapture it, allowing even the town watch and peasants to gain units of valour. Raising an army urgently in Numantia I sent them to join with my other army of recruits from Lemonum, Narbo Martius, Massilia and Alesia. Unfortunately the Julii caught my small contingent sneaking North around Osca and proceeded to annihilate it, although fortunately my family member survived. Licking my wounds I retreated back to Numantia to continue raising a bigger army, in the meantime my large army of warbands and swordsmen parked themselves on the mountains north of Osca for a terrain bonus. Unfortunately, the Julii attacked in force with wardogs. I was pretty much thoroughly whooped as their generals tore through my left flank whilst my cavalry was busy supporting my right. They then proceeded to mop up the rest of my army and left me with only remnants of 1500 men.

Whilst this was going on, the Dacians decided they wanted a piece and promptly attacked me at Segestica, fortunately I re-loaded the game early enough to get a sizeable force up to help the seige, but it was too late. I lost the town but gained the advantage as I beseiged it immediately afterwards, trapping the Dacian king inside. I assaulted the next turn and annihilated the attacking army, killing their king. I've not seen any further signs of a fight in the mean time. Immediately after this the Brutii decided to show up to reclaim the Julii land and grab some glory for themselves. After despatching both armies they sent up, my current army is undergoing retraining in Patavium whilst the Brutii remnants sit in the mountain wondering what to do next.

As it stands now, I'm allied with Thrace, Spain and Britain (the Germans cancelled the alliance when Dacia attacked, allowing me to ally with the Brits), at war with all of Rome and Dacia and have trade rights and map information from almost everyone else. The Brutii have halted their expansion as they have to deal with me, this means they have Appolonia, Salona, Thessalonica and Byzantium, with a very powerful Greece controlling everything below that line. The Scipii have 4 armies camped outside Capua waiting for my next move and thanks to my failed attacks and the Spanish incompetence, the single Julii city which sits in my unprotected heartland has a full stack of experience troops just waiting for an opportunity, including a 2 silver chevroned wardog unit

I have another army marching from Numantia to try and take Osca with reinforcements from more experienced and better armoured units coming by land from Northern Italy. The Britons have taken Trier which gives me a nice buffer between myself and the Germans, should they decide to help the Dacians, and Thrace are at war with the Dacians thanks to my request. The Brutii have an army camped just at the edge of their territory west of Rome, unfortunately my Julii conquests are unprotected against such a force and they're a considerable source of worry.

I think my next step is to annihilate the Julii utterly in Osca, and train a few more armies in Northern Italy to take care of the Scipii (I've no money to bribe). Watch this space..........

[Lorenzo_H]

The Gauls are a very interesting faction. They are incredibly easy to destroy when you're fighting them, but they have some crack units like the Foresters and Chosen Swordsmen. I think they are cool, but not as good as the Britons.

Here is my Barbarian faction ranking:

1. Germania
2. Britons
3. Gaul
4. Scythia
5. Spain
6. The Rest
7. Dacia

[Rome:Total Slayer]

I found an easy way to take Rome with the Gauls.

First build a sacred grove to teutalis in Mediolonium and a meeting hall in Patavium as soon as possible

Second let the Julii have Segesta. They will leave a small force there and will annoy them when you attack it later. Get a stack of Fanatics and Swords plus a good general and take segesta.

Third make two more stacks of good units. One to guard the bridges and the other to get on the boats.(your going to need a fleet of at least 5 ships for saftey)

Keep beating the Crap out the julii and the Senate army will attack you. Retreat and stay close.

sail your army down to the opposite of Rome and march army to attack a small force in Rome and the senate is destroyed you can now conqer the rest of the Julii. make sure to keep a large garrison in Rome for the Scipii will come.

[Lorenzo_H]

The Gauls, after beating them with ease with the Julii, are quite fun to play!

Rome: Total Slayer, that is a good strategy but I prefer to wait until I have about loads of swordsmen (make the Hastatii choke) and Forester warbands. Also, I find War Hounds very effective!

[IrishArmenian]

Make sure to get forester warband. They are some of the best units avalable to the Gauls, and some of the best Western archers too.

[Eagle Ranger]

Yes forrester warbands are great and are probably the best archers in the early and middle parts the of the game. They can cut even roman units to pieces.

[Severous]

I had a little practice before starting my Gaul campaign.

The British faction heir has a big unit of chariots. But walking into hidden Gaul in a forest was not a good move by the AI. Warcries, druid chant, Gaul general blowing his horn and forest advantage is really pumping up the Gaul. Meanwhile the Brits are distraught with the number of enemy and surprised by emerging enemy. Lost 7 Gaul taking down the big chariot unit.



I noticed that cavalry chasing routing chariots sufferred losses. Boo.

Any idea if the power for Druids chanting is influenced by the number of Druids ? Will full strength Druid chant the same as a weakened unit ?

[Nepereta]

Last night I had the most epic victory I have ever had in RTW. I had 3 warbands, 1 skirmisher, 2 generals and 2 barb cav vs the Rome monster stack in turn 5. It was actually an accident what happened was that I sieged rome because I couldn't see the SPQR monster stack any place. ( It must of been hiding in some woods). Any way the monster stack attacked me at rome and then I retreated and ended up in the roman port square. They attacked me again and I had no retreat option left so I had to fight or reload.

Ordering for battle I placed the warbands all in a tiny copse of woods in the corner of the map. ( PS I do not corner camp even in these dire situations, I 'forest' camp because thats where warbands rock).

I deployed my cav in a group a fair distance away on one side of the map.

Then began the giant roman horde heads towards my hidden warbands. I ordered my cav to the far side of the map intending to draw off enemies and take them piece meal with cav. 6 enemies followed my cav while the rest of the enemy headed in to fight my warbands.

As usual cav vs infantry I make them chase one unit then smash the rear. Then smash the new rear as the enemy turns rinse and repeat lost a few cav at this stage but managed to rout all 6 enemy units using lots of microing on the cav. By this time the enemy reached my warbands and started fighting them.

I realised there would be no chance for my warbands so I left them as they where and rested my cav on the other side of the map.

In the warband struggle in the woods the enemy general died in there by chance woods + spears give cav a nasty headache the enemy pelted my warbands with javalins and routed the lot. The enemy turned and headed to me.

It was a giant line of over 800-1000 + 4 enemy generals men vs about 100 veteran men so I sat still taking advantage of the rest to freshen my men.I identified a weak spot in the enemy line ( for some reason he deployed a straight line heading towards me guess he really wanted to catch my cav) It was a number of velite units. I smashed straight through the line and didn't stop I carried on going this time the 4 generals where on my case. Fortunately I managed to lead them all into rather messy ambushes. I was now down to perhaps 70 men. I then took the remnants of the enemy apart piece meal leaving one triarii till last lead him on a merry chase until my men freshened up significantly to take him in a massive rear charge. At the end I ahd perhaps 50 men. But I ahd killed all of the enemy bar about 40.

I do think from this experience there is a strong argument to take the SPQR army early on in the came if you know how to use cavalry well and have maintained a the 5 cav armies well that you started with. Leading armies on a merry chase resting and smashing them works wonders.

[Roman_Man#3]

sounds cool Nepereta, but one question. What difficulty level were you playing on? just wondering.

[Severous]

If you deploy the warbands fully in the trees they should be hidden. Rome should not march on hidden troops. Once the AI enemy is tired of chasing your visible cavalry thats when you lead them towards your hidden troops. Then as you say, combat in the woods will give combat advantages to your Gaul infantry..especialy against cavalry.

This was the big battle against SPQR in my current Gaul campaign.(vh/vh)
http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/f...81&st=9#post10

[Nepereta]

sounds cool Nepereta, but one question. What difficulty level were you playing on? just wondering.

It was just a short experiment on v hard(campaign) medium(combat). But since I beleive I have mostly got the combat AI bested I might crank things up in the combat department. FYI continuing from this point I had rome in turn 6. By turn 8 I have defeated most signficant forces on the italian penisula. Once rome wins I thinks its all straight forward. I find with most blitz strats you sucker punch the enemies nerby quick and you have more or less won.

[Roman_Man#3]

hey. started a gaul campaign, following nepereta's mention of "blitzing".

ITALIAN THEATRE:
i got all troops from patvium and field army of patavium and assaulted arretium. i sent my troops from mediolanium to segesta and took it. after that, i kept on sending my armies at rome, wittling down their army each time, and each time i lost only to retrain everyone at arretium. i finally had a full stack, and divied it up so half attacked ariminum and half attacked rome. won both cities and destroyed julii.

SPANISH THEATRE:
send the field army of narbo martius to osca. on the way, got balearics and spanish mercs, including some barb mercs. got the city, then moved onto Carthago. hoping to take the rest of the peninsula once my army has been restabilized.

NORTHERN/CENTRAL EUROPE THEATRE:

Sent the garrison of alesia to trier which i took. after a while and after some warbands had been trained at alesia, i sent 4+ a General to lugdunum. took it. taking massilia right now.

<foot note> once i unify europe under the banner of the Gauls, i will cross from the Iberian P into north africa, while simeultaniously invading greece.

once question though. i want to show you guys some screenshots, but dont know anything about it. could some one plz help?

[Nepereta]

good show roman_man the only thing that bothers me about blitzing is the fact that I fight with what I have as opposed to what I'd like to have. I go in heavy with cav + infantry to hold. The fall of rome means chosen swords however I'd love to have forester warbands upgraded by an epnoba + abnoba temples. By the time I see those Romans will be a footnote of gauls history.

[Guyus Germanicus]

I had denigrated the barbarian factions in another post saying that I was not yet interested in playing them since they tended not to have good cavalry. [The Germans aren't that bad actually.] But I took the Gauls for a test drive this week. It has been a lot of fun. The Gauls, unfortunately, don't have as deep a tech tree as the other major factions, i.e., Carthage, Rome, Greek Cities, etc., but I haven't found this to be a real drawback as far as enjoying the campaign. They reach their best units sooner, and the barbarian cavalry can hold its own for the most part.

Of course, with Gaul your combat strategy tends to revolve around mass infantry attacks. You still have war dogs and cavalry. Economic development tends to progress more slowly. There are no public works building projects to speak of to help with squalor/public order issues. But it's been a kick. I have 35 regions subdued in my game so far. An army has just invaded Britain. I have two armies moving on the Greek peninsula. Spain, the Julii, Scipii, and Rome are caput. I own Numidian Tingi. The Germans are on the ropes, Dacia and Carthage seem cowed, and Macedonia is quiet. I have probably overexpanded my military, but I'm not in a serious cash bind. And since the tech tree is much reduced, I've already maxed out the development of some cities. It seems my cities tend to grow more slowly than when I'm playing the other factions. Don't know if that's my imagination or not.

I have found that I depend on mercenaries far less with the Gauls. Spearmen, wardogs, a few skirmishers and some flanking cavalry and I have a solid strike force for the most part. I defeated Rome/SPQR at a river crossing with mass infantry acting as a stopper at the ford. Then used barbarian cav to hit the flanks. I learned something, too, about fighting a large enemy infantry army in the forest. I pulled an Alexander tactic - I fanned my infantry out in a frontal assault on the enemy line to make a bow then charged 5-6 cavalry units into the center of their line. They broke and fragmented. It was then a mop up of the fragments. Lost a few wardogs in the process and took some heavy cavalry casualties, but it worked.

Gaul has been fun.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Finished my first Gallic campaign. Eliminated Germany and Britain and the Brutii. Conquered Corinth, and then Macedonia and Carthage decided I was too dangerous to leave alone so I ended up having to deal with them. I finished the game by taking the city of Carthage and a rebel city in eastern Europe. I am coming to believe holding Corinth is very important in any long campaign. It's not that you can't win the game without possessing Corinth. But it sure helps from a public order standpoint. Patavium was the only city that posed a serious public order problem. But after taking Corinth and then posting a highly influential faction member as governor, I got over the public order "hump" there. I've already started a new Gallic campaign. Guess I'm hooked on barbarians now.

[Orb]

I'm trying a Gallic campaign at the moment with 1.6 .exe, night battles enabled and it's great. I'll be modding it a bit more to add a spearmen unit (since presently the warbands are no good as anti-cavalry) and probably a few fun traits for my next one.

[whtdoesitmatta]

Gaul is such an annoying faction. I started a campaign on m/m and have been quite successful at not dieing. I was quick to gather as many rebel cities as possible, but could not get Salona or Segesta in time. This includes me taking Ireland. I was slow in going to war with anyone, but when it hit I was fighting against all the romans, well not the scipii or the senate, I am also fighting both the brits and the Germans, which is a quite a difficult, because I never knocked the Britons off of the mainland. Instead, I have taken 2 of there 3 isle territories.
They also have no boats to ferry men to the mainland, but still have a flag and a half breathing down my neck. The germans are pesky little stacks, but still tough to fend off.

My main fighting is against the romans. I have just started making forester war bands in hopes of easing the conquering of the Italian peninsula. Oh yes I forgot to mention I quickly mopped up Osca and Carthago from the Spaniards and ceasefired with them. I am allied with Carthage and Greece, but the Brutii are not focusing on Thermon, and are attacking me instead.

Well I am certainly off to an odd start, and would like some advice on where to go.

[Ludens]

The A.I. gives priority to attacking the player above any other factions, so when you are playing a central faction like Gaul, you will always be at war with at least two factions. Personally, I would focus on establishing easily defendable borders with the Britons and the Germans. In your case, this probably means taking the remaining Briton towns. Germania is poor however, so it is not a good target, unless you can take out the Germans fast. A better option would be to establish a defendable front line and set up spies/watchtowers to preempt German attacks.

The Italian peninsula is rich, so the current owners can afford to send stack after stack of high-quality troops at you. Getting into a war of attrition with them is a bad idea. You need to take them out quickly. Don't be afraid of the exterminate button when taking their cities: you may not be able to spare the garrisons, and large populations are a bad idea for the barbarians anyway. From what I remember, Gaul foresters were not that good. I would recommend teching up to Noble Cavalry: before the Marian reforms the Romans don't have a proper counter to this unit, apart from their bodyguards.

[whtdoesitmatta]

Forresters were the ultimate range unit though..., and would it be wise to give up a certain profit to make a smaller border against the germans, and should I conquer the other side of spain?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I agree that Gaul can be a bit vexing.


First, I agree with Ludens about Britain. Remove the Blue Stag Flag entirely from the game even if you have to give ground to the Romani for a year or three to do it. Payoffs:

1. British Isles do not normally get attacked by any non-Roman AI faction -- except Gaul. You have a very secure rear area.

2. British Isles, though slow developing, are among the richest Northern Barb provinces with natural port trade dichots in Ireland/Lancashire and London/Flanders -- quite lucrative for the Barbarian world.

3. No chariots to faff around with once they're done. This leaves you with no immediate opponents who have a natural counter to your cavalry -- Germany is in the same boat as you and Rome and Spain a notch behind.

Second, I'd reccomend launching a spoiler attack into Germany while defending against the Romans. Send in a tough stack, smash and loot as much as you can in 5 years or so and kill lots of Germans. Then fall back to the Rhine and defend the most of the crossings with forts and towers for visibility. Leave one bridge with no fort to be defended by an army -- this will draw the Germans, as they rebuild, into a series of frontal attacks on your bridge defense army -- and they will present a bunched and largely under-armored target for your forresters as they try to pound through your swords on your side of the bridge. Throw in a unit of druids to keep the sword lads "ki-d" up and you should have Germany on hold for quite some time.

Third, decision time.

Choice A = Build two armies and strike the Italian Peninsula (one from the North the other by Sea). As Ludens notes, DO NOT ATTRIT WITH THEM, Make any fight with them either them attacking you at a bridge or fighting with a city as the prize. Field action after field action will cause you to take too many casualties to do anything but slowly bleed while they get stronger. You'll win 24 out of 25 battles and still lose because the AI can afford to chum the waters until you run into debt and lose.

Choice B = Keep a defensive posture against the Romans as in the Second phase above and Hammer Spain. This is slower than going after Italy (distance and bad roads), and less lucrative, but it is the more "conservative" choice in that you should be able to best the Spanish and thus close another theatre of action more or less permanently (allowing you to concentrate). You'll also pick up nice trade money in the Spanish Riviera. Narrowing the front, for Gaul, is always an important consideration.

Fourth, do whichever Choice you didn't already do in Step Three.

Fifth, Defend Italy from Roman counterattacks -- the Romans tend to fixate on a city and you can make it a place to bleed them dry -- and conquer North Africa from whoever's holding it (Numida/Carthage/Scipii). Remember to be careful facing hefalumps -- they do inordinately well against your Northern barbs, especially on Sand. Leave (for now) a one province buffer between you and the Egyptians --even if it means letting the Scipii live.

Sixth, Conquer the Balearics, Sardinia, and Sicily if you haven't done so already. These all tend to interact well with the rest of the Western Med ports and you want a lucrative trading lake before taking on the Eggies or the Brutes (who'll probably own the Aegean by this point and be making a mint and constantly sending Romans to die at Tarentum and Patavium as you defend these two bastions).

You'll want to build up powerful armies to take Greece and or Egypt for the win. The Brutes will be Marian armies and the Eggies are always tough, so you'll need to train up. Take advantage of your position to purchase Balaerics, Merc Hoplites for defensive blocking forces, Numid cavalry for harassing, and a War Elephant if you can get them. This will refine your Barb army for the harder tasks of the end game.


Other than that, I can't think of anything.

[whtdoesitmatta]

Yeah, i want to get to greece, It isn't that far in turn wise, and if I can get italy and sicily I'll just exterminate so imperial doesn't come. Ok, thanks, I really like the idea for dealing with briton and germany, and I am going to go straight down the Italian peninsula, 2 stacks, and just destroy cities, don't even hold them the first time through...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yeah, i want to get to greece, It isn't that far in turn wise, and if I can get italy and sicily I'll just exterminate so imperial doesn't come. Ok, thanks, I really like the idea for dealing with briton and germany, and I am going to go straight down the Italian peninsula, 2 stacks, and just destroy cities, don't even hold them the first time through...

Imperial will come. Even if you own all of Italy, once one of the FORMERLY italian citys hits the right level, the reforms still take place.

[whtdoesitmatta]

I meant I was going to exterminate all those cities to push back the reforms, until I can take care of the Italians.

[Roman_Man#3]

If you have Italy, you don't have to worry about the Marian Reforms because the barbarians can't build to Huge City. So you don't really have to worry about it,

Good luck,
RM3

[Severous]

Stats from my completed Gaul campaign.



Its a pity the victory movie was of Gauls dressed as Britons.

[mrdun]

How do you find out your stats? Is it something you compiled?

[Severous]

Hi. Yes those stats were captured on pen and paper as I went along. Then typed onto an excel spreadsheet and a pivot table gave me the summary tables shown above.

Took a lot of effort. So dont that level of detail in my current campaigns.