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Thread: Medieval - Total War mod

  1. #61
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete
    nice list, I'm hoping to do the Georgians next them the Volga Bulgarians. The Volga Bulgarians were a muslim faction too, a couple of those units I could use for them, mind if I do? specifically Jund, Archers.
    Sure go ahead keep the unit lists coming, they are awesome.

    i'll edit this post to put up the cavalry.
    Last edited by Leet Eriksson; 10-29-2004 at 16:24.
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  2. #62
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    OK here are the Volga Bulgarians. They were a Muslim power situated on the Volga river, cousins to the danube Bulgarians (modern day Bulgaria). They would be one of the factions that could build the steppe warriors, available from various provinces around Modern day Russia (I'll post these guys next). When it comes to modelling the Volga Bulgarians, there are unfortunately no resources (even DBA doesn't have a Volga Bulgarian army list!) however I have found information on them which was quite good, and so every unit would be 100% historically accurate, even with names (no Volga Bulgarian infantry/cavalry etc). The Volga Bulgarians made heavy use of various degrees of chainmails, and very little plate armour. They initially defeated a Mongol army in 1223, but they were wiped out by the invading Mongols at 1237. They never became independant again, and their culture was largely extinguished. They were significant in that they made use of large amounts of infantry rather than large amounts of cavalry.

    Jund - faisals already done

    Archers - faisals already done

    Guzar - attack 6 defense 10 (shield 6, armour 1, skill 3), weapon spear men 120 cost 200 upkeep 140 Tier 2
    The Guzars were the lightly armed levies of the 'third line' of the Volga Bulgarian army. The lines corresponded as to how desperate the situation was. If they were just fighting raiders, usually only the elite first line was deployed, if a large scale war the all three lines were used. They are slightly better than most other spearmen of the same Tier, but will be made redundant quickly.

    Kursybays - attack 7 defense 15 (shield 6, armour 4, skill 5), weapon spear men 80 cost 400 upkeep 170 Tier 3
    Kursybays were the medium spearmen of the 'second line' of the Volga Bulgarian army. They were better equipped than the Guzars, but not as well as the elite Kazanchies. Note this use of 'line' was merely meant to say how important the unit was, ot their actual battlefield roles. In battle, the Kursybays usually fought holding actions, allowing the Kazanchies to manouver to deliver decisive strikes. The Kursybays were a bit different to most other levies of the time in that they were actualy paid and did not serve out of Feudal obligations. There are several references to them almost betraying the King unless their pay was increased. These are like in VH's XL mod.

    Kazanchies - attack 14 defense 14 (armour 8, skill 6) weapon double handed axe men 80 cost 650 upkeep 240 Tier 4
    Kazanchies were the armoured and elite warriors of the 'first line'. They were well paid, and were usually committed in the decisive stages of the battle. Armed with a double handed axe that reduces armour, they can cause terrible damage to the enemy, however they are not as good at holding the line as the Kursybays were, and became fatigued fairly quickly. They seemed to be more loyal and the Kursybays, and did not threaten to mutiny for pay. They are in VH's XL mod.

    Angly - melee attack 2 missile attack 9 defense 9 (armour 6, skill 3) weapon compound bow men 80 cost 575 upkeep 240 Tier 4
    Angly's were the armoured elite archers of the Volga Bulgarians, and were often used to gaurd bridges and choke points on the Volga river, the source of Volga Bulgarian wealth, regulating trade and soliciting money from traders. They were used in battle too, and were effective, without suffering many casualties. To represent their status as gaurds of the Volga river, they should only be able to be built in provinces that has the Volga river running through them.

    Kaves - melee attack 3 missile attack 12 defense 3 (skill 3) weapon crossbow men 80 cost 600 upkeep 240 Tier 5
    Kaves were the crossbowmen of the Volga Bulgarians. No armour, they were used more as 'militia men' rather than elite troops, their amroured archers were considered more valuable. Kaves would still be very handy in holding off horse archers and other mounted foes.

    Ulan - attack 9 defense 22 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 13) weapon spear men 54 cost 890 upkeep 350 Tier 5
    Ulans were heavily armoured knights, not the most nimble of opponents but very deadly! They were equipped by various Feudal lords, and so were fairly few in number, and often were part of uprisings against the monarch. They should only be buildable in the Volga Bulgarian home provinces, and take two turns to build.

    Cossack - attack 13 defense 10 (skill 6, shield 4) weapon sword men 54 cost 500 upkeep 250 Tier 3
    Cossacks (the original Volga Bulgarian name is so long and confusing I'm not even going to attempt to write it) were originally Knights who swore to fight without armour in defiance of death and to show their bravery, or Knights who swore not to marry until Military service has been done. They are very good fighters, and although brave, terribly vulnerable to missiles. Cossacks became famous several hundred years later as eastern cavalry nomads, one of the few remaining.

    Djura - melee attack 4 missile attack 9 defense 13 (skill 3, shield 4, armour 6) men 54 cost 850 upkeep 300 Tier 4
    Djura were armoured horse archers, mercenaries initially hired by the Volga Bulgarians from the various steppe nomad tribes nearby then outfitted with Volgan chainmail. Poor in Hand to hand combat, but strong archers, with the eatsern compound bow.

    EDIT - woops! forgot the
    Bahadirs - were the bodygaurds of the nobles, and thus would be the generals bodygaurd units.

    Thats the Volga Bulgarians, their list may seem a bit short but that is so they have some incentive to conquer nearby provinces and be able to build additional troops to augment their forces. Sorry if it seems I'm going quite quick with the lists, but in a couple of weeks time I will be going away until some time in February (its harvest season down here) and will be unable to post anything like these lists in that time. By that time the mod will probably be well on the way, and so these will not be needed. So I'm trying to get down what I know now. Next I intend to do the Steppe units buildable by the Kievan Rus, Volga Bulgarians and Novgorods, then I will write something on Novgorod and the Kieva Rus. Then I am hoping to get the Sicilians and the Christian Iberian factions done, and thats really all I know, dont know too much about Scandanavian, French, English, Irish, Scottish, German or Italian units, only a little bit, but I will post what I do know.
    Last edited by Armchair Athlete; 10-30-2004 at 09:52.
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  3. #63
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Apparently i won't edit the last post, but this one, incase Armchair misses it (i stole a unit of yours if you don't mind).

    I also have to mention some things, i did not put up unit costs or number of men, the numbers will be based off of rtw so Spearmen on huge are 240, swords/oddballs 160, cavalry 108....etc and i'll think of the costs, but its best to do that after the unit list is finalized so i can balance it.

    Took me some time to finish the abassid and egyptian cavalry, i didn't do the Almohads and Almoravids sadly, will finish them up soon though.

    Now onto Islamic cavalry, like the footsoldier their emphasis is on attack rather than defence and use alot of horse archer cavalry. This time around though i'm putting a faction name first then put the units they belong to below them.

    Abassids:

    Archer Cavalry:

    Turcoman Cavalry - Missile Attack 11 Melee Attack 7 Defence 10

    The Turks were integrated in the Abassid army after Al Mu'tasim Billah (bieng half turk himself) became caliph, he was impressed by their ways of warfare and integrated a large number of them in the Caliphates army. Armed with bows, and chainmail armour (turkish armour was of better quality than arab armour) and swords. They are good for harrassing and skirmishing.

    Arab Cavalry (Fast) - Missile Attack 14 (Javelins) Melee Attack 8 Defence 7

    Recruited primarily from Hedjaz, the Coastal Arabs (Hadhar/Hadr) armies were primarily made up of cavalry, they are disciplened and organised but unarmoured and carry a light lance, several javelins and a sword.

    Cavalry:

    Bedioun Camel Warriors - Stole it from Armchair (i hope you don't mind )

    Faris - Attack 14 Defence 10

    Primarily recruited from Jordan, they have an excellent charge, can melee to some extent too. They carry lances, and swords. Not much protection besides leather armour enforced with a mail of rings for protection against arrows.

    Ghulam Cavalry - Attack 9 Defence 18

    The Ghulam are slaves trained primarily for war, mostly used as cavalry, they are very good at what they do and that is to support the Caliphates army forming wings around the left and right flank of the army and an advance unit in front of the army by a few miles. Since they are derived from the Ghaznavid system they come armed in heavy lances, lamellar armour, round shields made of metal, and conical helmets for protection. Their horses come armoured too.

    Ghazi Cavalry (Fast) - Attack 13 Defence 7

    The mounted form of the ghazi infantry, there only motivation is either death... or the loot they lay their hands on after the battle. They carry light lances and axes, they only carry wooden shields for protection.

    Abbasid Royal Ghulam Cavalry - Attack 16 Defence 22

    These are Ghulams assigned especially to guard royality or royal family members, they are armed with the best equipment possible(heavy lances and maces) and the best armour (heavy chainmail). Their horses come armoured.

    Egyptians:

    Horse Archers:

    Mamelukes - Missile Attack 10 Melee Attack 13 Defence 18

    The Elite of the Egyptian army, they are white slaves from all over europe. Disciplined and Organised, they are armed with recurve bows, swords, lances and heavy chainmail armour, they also have an excellent charge.

    Nubian Light Cavalry (fast) - Missile Attack 16 (javelins) Melee attack 5 Defence 7

    Cavalry recruited from Sudan, they are good shots with javelins while mounted and excellent at harassing and skirmishing.

    Cavalry:

    Abyssinian Heavy Cavalry - Attack 11 Defence 16

    Heavy Cavalry Recruited from Abyssinia, they are Disciplined and Organised, armed with lances and longswords and also armoured in heavy robes and chainmail.

    Bedioun Camel Warriors - Stole it from Armchair

    Bedioun Cavalry (fast) - Attack 9 Defence 7

    Egyptians relied from several bedioun tribes in jordan and sinai to compliment their armies, bedioun families usually gather them and then form cavalry regiments that join the egyptian army, they have high morale but carry little else in terms of equipment, primarily light lances and swords or other close combat weapons. their only protection are their turbans and robes, wich do a good job at protecting them from the sun, but nothing else.

    Ghazi Cavalry - Already done

    Mamelukes (Bodyguard) - Missile Attack 9 Attack 16 Defence 19

    The Egyptian royality handpick the best of the mameluke warriors and made them their bodyguards, armed with the best arms and armour.
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  4. #64
    Member Member VikingHorde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Good work guys, very usefull info. The mod is making good progress right now with a lot of new unit models and mapmaking being done. Im starting work om faction banners, both ingame and in the menu. We have desided that the mod will have all 3 eras that MTW had. The "game timer" will thereby not be a 100 % correct, because high and late era units will arive early'er. This is because of the 2 turn/a year timer there is hardcoded sadly. We can only hope a game patch will correct this.


    MTW XL version 3.0 out now! Get it here:
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31201

  5. #65
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    faisal - use all the units you want, you've done a good job! I don't really know much about the Muslim powers (other than the Volga Bulgarians) so its been very interesting reading your posts

    vikinghorde - Thats OK, for most of the factions I have done so far they did not make it to the late period, being wiped out by the Mongols (Georgians, Cumans, Volga Bulgarians) only the Armenians didn't and they were conquered in 1375 by the Mamlukes, so the lists don't change at all there. So that means units like gothic knights and stuff would be in? For those super advanced units, what could be done to make them much later is have a single building that takes many turns to build, which then allows construction of late period units, for example for Gothic Knights you would need the highest level cavalry barracks and say you could have a Baronial estate (like in MTW) that takes extra turns to build but provides no benefit other than construction of Late units.
    Last edited by Armchair Athlete; 10-31-2004 at 07:32.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    What about a Viking Age mod for RTW? From 793 to 1066, with all of Europe of course...

  7. #67
    Member Member VikingHorde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete
    faisal - use all the units you want, you've done a good job! I don't really know much about the Muslim powers (other than the Volga Bulgarians) so its been very interesting reading your posts

    vikinghorde - Thats OK, for most of the factions I have done so far they did not make it to the late period, being wiped out by the Mongols (Georgians, Cumans, Volga Bulgarians) only the Armenians didn't and they were conquered in 1375 by the Mamlukes, so the lists don't change at all there. So that means units like gothic knights and stuff would be in? For those super advanced units, what could be done to make them much later is have a single building that takes many turns to build, which then allows construction of late period units, for example for Gothic Knights you would need the highest level cavalry barracks and say you could have a Baronial estate (like in MTW) that takes extra turns to build but provides no benefit other than construction of Late units.
    The late units should have a high needs so that they don't get build too early.

    @King Yngvar
    The viking era will not be included in this mod.

    MTW XL version 3.0 out now! Get it here:
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31201

  8. #68
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    OK now for the Kievan Rus and Novgorod. When there is no listing after th eunit, it means they are common for both facions. When there is a name after it, it is only for that named faction. The Rus had two distinct styles of troops, before the Mongol Invasion and afterwards. before they were much like other troops of that time, with mounted nobles and foot levies, but after the Mongol invasions there was more emphasis on Foot Troops (especially in Novgorod). Most of the info i have here is from either MTW and XL mod, or the various Osprey Titles that have been published (beautiful pictures!) plus some online ones. They would both be able to build the special steppe units I will put up shortly, to make up for shortcomings in their own army. I'm too lazy to do cost and upkeep now so I'll start leaving those out.

    Eastern Archers - already done

    Eastern Urban Militia - already done

    Eastern Skirmishers - already done

    Eastern Spearmen - already done

    Horse Archers - already done

    Voi - attack 6 defense 13 (shield 6, armour 3, skill 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
    Voi were the lightly armed tribal levies of the armies of the Rus. They operated in a variety of ways, from spearmen to Skirmishers, but were only used in desperate circumstances, due to their general unreliability and the fact they could only be used for part of the year. However, they are better than vanilla spearmen.

    Varangians - attack 10 defense 14 (armour 5, shield 4, skill 5) weapon axe men 80 Tier 3
    Varangians were scandanavian (primarily Sweedish) mercenaries that were hired by the various Rus principalities. They were equipped like other viking warriors, with decent armour and a variety of large hand weapons. They should only buildable in the Rus (Kievan and Novgorod) home provinces.

    Druzhina Warriors - attack 12 defense 15 (armour 5, shield 4, skill 6, hitpoints 2) weapon sword men 40 Tier 4
    The Druzhina were a princes personal retinue. They were full time warriors, and thus were the cream of Russia armies. They were expensive to raise and upkeep, but large numbers of them were very effective.

    Boyars - missile attack 9 melee attack 7 defense 15 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 6) weapon bow men 54 Tier 5
    Boyars were the later nobles or aristocracy of Rus society (when I say Russian I mean Kievan and Novgorod, its just too long to type that out every time) and were armed with some of the best equipment available to them, including strong armour and good bows.

    Druzhina Bodygaurd - attack 13 defense 14 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 5, hitpoints 2) weapon Lance men varies (generals bodygaurd unit) Tier none
    Mounted Druzhina warriors who are the bodygaurd of Rus generals, lances for a devestating charge and good fighters. They are small in number however, and should not be thrown into the thick of the fray, to preserve the general.

    Streltsi (KIEVAN RUS) - attack 9 defense 10 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 1) weapon Lance men 54 Tier 3
    Streltsi were the light supporting cavalry used by the Kievan Rus in their struggles against the various Steppe peoples. They are fast and with good stamina, well suited to running down nimble horse archers, and have a lance for a devestating charge. They can also act as anti infantry units, but will be defeated in a pitched battle. They must rely upon precision strikes and rear charges.

    Eastern Crossbows - already done this unit

    Peshtsi (NOVGOROD) - attack 13 defense 18 (shield 4, armour 8, skill 6) weapon long spear men 120 Tier 5
    Peshtsi (or foot soldiers) were skilled footmen that appeared in the armies of the rus after the Mongol invasion. Their use by Novgorod brought them many victories, defeating the Teutons numerous times and ensuring Novgorod Freedom by defeating a Mongol army in 1285.

    Novgorod Urban Levy (NOVGOROD) - attack 12 defense 13 (skill 5, armour 8) weapon halberd men 80 Tier 5
    After the defeat of the Kievan Rus by the Mongols and their subsequent annihilation, the remaining rus prinipalities realised that a different approach to warfare was needed. This resulted in the armoured infantry being much more important, and well equipped urban levies began to replace nobles and cavalry. These Levies are armed with halberds, fearsome weapons that can cut through armour and provide a good bonus versus cavalry.

    Well thats it, I think maybe the Kievan Rus need one more unique unit but I couldn't find any, if anyone has some suggestions then feel free to say so. One name I have come across is the Otroki, who were squires, but I dont know how they were equipped, so you can do what you like with them. They should be early tier however. as the Kievan Rus were wiped out by the Mongols while Novgorod survived, so Novgorod has better later units. I will put up the list of units that can be built by Steppe factions in various provinces tomorrow, but their basic names here are
    Bashkorts
    Chernye Klobuki
    Severian Tribesmen
    Oghuz
    Moksha Mordvin
    Erzya Mordvin
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  9. #69
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    OK here are the Russian Steppe units. These guys would be buildable by the two Rus powers, Volga Bulgarians and Cumans with a special building that can be constructed in Tier 3. This would accurately represent the wars which were primarily fought over influence of the tribes rather than territorial expansion. Territories for all three factions remained somewhat static. The only exception to the Tier 3 rule is with the Oghuz who would be built in Tier 5 as an upgrade to the Tier 3 building. Maybe that building could provide another bonus, such as slightly increased trade, so it wont be totally useless when built outside the Steppes.

    Bashkorts - missile attack 9 attack 9 defense 9 (armour 1, skill 4, shield 4) weapon Javelin and Spear Men 80
    Bashkorts were a traibe that was originally established to the east of the Volga Bulgarian Home provinces and were a livestock owning, semi nomadic tribe. They mostly used footmen rather than cavalry. After repeated incursions by Turkic raiders they left and journed West, forming an alliance with the Volga Bulgarians for greater protection. They would be buildable in the Volga Bulgarian Home provinces.

    Chernye Klobuki - same stats as Cuman Cavalry
    The Chernye Klobuki (or Black Hoods) were a group of settlers from mixed tribal origin, primarily the Berendi but also remnants of other defeated Turkic tribes, such as the Pecheneg and Alans. The Berendi tribesmen initially fought for many powers, including the Volga Bulgarians. They formed an alliance with the Kievan Rus and settled in their southern frontier, providing some degree of protection against the raiding Cumans. They operated in a veriety of ways, as cavalry lancers and archers. Here they are used as Archers. These guys would be buildable in the Kievan Rus home provinces. I made them the same stats as the Cuman cavalry so the Cumans would not need to use them, because historically they hated the Cumans ad always fought them.

    Severian Tribesmen - attack 15 defense 5 (skill 5, hitpoints 2) weapon large axe Men 80
    Severian Tribesmen were ferocious, if lightly armoured fighters who often hired themselves out as mercenaries to the warring Rus principalities. They were armed with a large double handed axe which they were quite skillful in using, however they will be destroyed by any kind of missile fire. These guys would look similar to the woodsmen of MTW (but would be a bit better) and would be buildable in the provices just to the North of the Kievan Rus and South of Novgorod (say around the cities of Smolensk and Polotski)

    Moksha Mordvin - missile attack 9 melee attack 10 defense 5 (skill 4, armour 1) weapon flat bow men 80
    The Mordvins were fierce tribal people who inhabited the lands between the Volga Bulgarians and the Rus principalities. They made excellet troops, and many wars were fought for influence over these tribes. There were two main divisions, the Moksha Mordvi being the more westerly and the Erzya Mordvin being the more easterly. The Moksha Mordvin were famous for their use of the 'flat bow' and were strong in hand to hand combat. The Mordvins were never territorially expanionist, but were ferocious fighters, and took human heads as trophies. These guys would be buildable around the cities of Moscow and Rostov

    Erzya Mordvin - missile attack 12 melee attack 11 defense 14 (shield 6, skill 5, armour 3) weapon hand weapon and throwing axe men 80
    The Erzya Mordvin were the more easterly of the Mordvin, and for equipment used throwing axes, which would be thrown just before a charge in the same way as the Roman Pila (they would only have about 2 throwing axes). They make a capable medium infantry and would be buildable in the rebel territories right to the west of the Volga Bulgarian homelands.

    Oghuz - attack 8 defense 19 (skill 6, shield 6, armour 7) weapon Lance men 54
    The Oguz were one of the Turkic tribes originally inhabiting the lands to the North of the Pechenegs around the Don River. They suffered greatly by the raiding Cumans and were never a major power again. These Oghuz are equipped as heavy cavalry lancers with an excellent charge, although once they have charged their hand to hand weapons are not as good as Arabic and Western ones.
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  10. #70
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    This list adresses the Cavalry for The Almohads/Almoravids:

    Took me sometime to write it down, since most arabic history is oral and never adresses "units" in names and such, i had to name some cavalry and others were slapped with generic names like Berber Camel Archers and such. The Equipment is hisotrically correct though, but i had problems with armour, they aren't adressed clearly, so i had to ask around and i happened to find out that 1 type of armour could have several names and so on.


    Horse Archers:

    Berber Camel Archers - Missile Attack 10 Melee Attack 8 Defence 7

    Hardy desert folk from the sahara, relying on their camels for several purposes to endure the harsh heat of the desert. They are armed with bows and swords, not much in terms of armour, besides the cloth that protects them from the sun.

    Berber Cavalry - Missile Attack 15 (javelins) Melee Attack 9 Defence 8

    These are recruited primarily from southern Algeria, very good with javelins and very good at harassing and skirmishing, armed with javelins, swords and armoured with heavy cloth.

    Cavalry:

    Andalucian Knights - Attack 9 Defence 25

    A mixture of Muslim and Christian cavalry in southern Spain, copying the feudal Spanish knights in arms and armour, but are also disciplined and organised, unlike their impetuos Spanish counterparts.

    Muwahid(Almohad)/Murabitin(Almoravid) Cavalry - Attack 16 Defence 14

    Medium Cavalry with a good charge, armed with lances and shields, armoured with chainmail.

    Granadine Lancers - Attack 13 Defence 22

    Heavy Cavalry from Granada, armed with very long lances and sabres and armoured in 2 layers of chainmail, they carry small wooden shields meant for close combat and not protection against arrows.

    Muwahid/Murabitin Companions - Attack 19 Defence 18

    Cavalry accompanying Royality, personal friends of the Khalifah, under his order they could also accompany other royality. Each one is armed with a unique sword and shield.

    Note: Historically, before the Almoravids or Almohads came to power, they worked in convincing people in their ideology, these people then became "companions" of sorts wich accompanied the figurehead of the faction. In time, their numbers waned and their ability became sub-par due to the laxity they become exposed to after conquering southern spain.

    EDIT:I forgot to add commonly used cavalry(i wrote the almohad cavalry in a different text file):

    Bedioun Camels and Ghazi Cavalry.

    Thats it for the Cavalry i hope.

    EDIT: i'll address the artillery in my next post.
    Last edited by Leet Eriksson; 11-02-2004 at 16:09.
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  11. #71
    (Insert innuendo here) Member Balloon Bomber Champion DemonArchangel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    For the late byzantines look at

    http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba...neVariant.html

    Vlach Javenlineers would be a good idea.
    As would Veristitatae (Byzantine sword infantry)
    Try equpping skutatoi with the bow as an alternate weapon then.
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  12. #72
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Time for the crusaders now, then I will do the Sicilians, Iberian Christians and a bit on the Italian City states then that will be all from me apart from some general ideas.

    Spearmen - attack 5 defense 8 (shield 4, skill 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 2
    Generic Spear Unit for the Western Factions.

    Archer - missile attack 7 melee attack 2 defense 3 (skill 3) men 80 Tier 2
    Generic Archer unit for Western Factions.

    Urban Militia - same stats as eastern urban militia
    Generic Urban Militia Uit for Western Factions

    Crossbowmen - missile attack 12 melee attack 3 defense 7 (armour 4, skill 3) men 80 Tier 5
    Generic Crossbow unit for western factions.

    Frankish Crusaders - attack 9 defense 14 (skill 5, shield 6, armour 3) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
    Regardless of their origins, all western crusaders were generally called 'Franks' by the Muslims of the East. Having been hardened by many battles agaist Turks and the Abbassid and Fatamid caliphates they are capable warriors, however in the long overland treks armour and weapons tend to degenerate in quality. They were usually available in large numbers however and often outnumbered the Islamic armies opposing them. With more religious fevour than standard western units, they have a higher morale. These guys should be fairly cheap to represent their largish numbers.

    Turcopoles - same stats as Turkoman cavalry (by Faisal) but a bit more expensive
    After initially being suprised by the rapid harassing tactics of the Turks, the crusaders realised the value of fast horse armies and employed converted Turks (who were usually those captured in battle) as their own form of light cavalry known as Turcopoles. Like in MTW perhaps these guys should only be buildable in Antioch, Tripoli and Edessa to represent their limited numbers.

    Order Foot Soldiers - attack 10 defense 17 (skill 6, shield 6, armour 5) weapon spear men 80 Tier 4
    Same as Order Foot Soldiers from MTW. As these guys were ones that fought for the military orders, rather than the rulers of the various states like the Frankish Crusaders, they have a bit better weapons and armour, but there is less of them.

    Hospitaller Foot Knights - already done this unit

    Knights Templar - attack 11 defense 24 (skill 6, shield 6, armour 12) weapon lance men 54 Tier 5
    One of the two principal Knightly orders in the east, the Knights Templar were renowned for their determination, skill at arms but unsubtle tactics usually consisting of a head on charge. Only wealthy nobles could be admitted into the Knights Templar, and therefore could afford the best quality arms and armour. They were very impetuous and often charged at first sight of the enemy, and this has been blamed in some sources for defeats of crusader armies. Notw I thought it would be pointless to have the Knights Hospitaller and the Knights Templar as foot and mounted units, as they would have exactly the same arms and armour and so would be the same, just look different. So perhaps one should be mounted and one should be on foot.

    Norman Knights - attack 11 defense 17 (shield 6, skill 6, armour 5) weapon spear men 54 Tier 3
    When the crusaders marched, one of the leaders was Bohemund of Taranto, son of the Hauteville Normans in Sicily. His troops were predominately Norman, already skilled in warfare. Norman Knights were some of the most effective knights of their period, and Norman Lords used them with success in Sicily, Southern Italy and Britain as well as in their homeland of Normandy. These are pretty good for Tier 3 units, so they need to me limited in number somehow. Say take two turns to build, be expensive and can only be built in Antioch (as Bohemund was the ruler of Antioch) Sicily, Southern Italy, England (not Scotland or Wales) and Normandy. These would be buildable by the French, English, Sicilians and Crusaders.

    Norman Foot Knights - attack 11 defense 16 (shield 6, armour 4, skill 6) weapon large sword men 54 Tier 3
    Norman Knights were considered the first to make regular dismounting a common tactic when cavalry fighting was inappropriate. Just as skilled on Foot as on Horse, they made strong infantry, although with a bit less protection and mobility due to the lack of a mount. Same build restrictions as Norman Knights.

    Templar Sergeants - attack 10 defense 16 (skill 6, shield 4, armour 6) weapon sword men 54 Tier 4
    Those without the rank to join the crusading orders as fully fledged knights instead joined as Sergeants. They were generally just as skillful, although thier arms and armour were not up to the same quality. They were also not as impetuous as the knights of the order.

    Feudal Men at Arms - attack 9 defense 12 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 3) weapon sword or other generic hand weapon men 80 Tier 3
    Same as Feudal Men at Arms from MTW. Reasonable infantry for their Tier, they could defeat most similar spear units but will need to be replaced with more advanced units as time progresses.

    Chivalric Men at Arms - attack 12 defense 16 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 7) weapon sword men 80 Tier 5
    Same as Chivalric Men at Arms from MTW.

    Well thats it for the crusaders, if anyone has any more ideas feel free to add them. One question for you though VH, will the campaign have three different starting dates like in MTW or will it just start in 1100?
    CHIVALRY TOTAL WAR - A medieval mod for RTW
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  13. #73
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    I will start with the Portugese out of the three Iberian Christian factions. The last list was a bit boring I think, you included nearly all the units that could be done in your XL mod. The Iberians will be more interesting than my crusaders list, I promise The Portugese were more defensive with their large scale battles, with the use of swift raiders to raid he southern muslim provinces. They were also very defensive in their wars with Castile, and in later periods nearly all of their knights fought dismounted. The crossbow was very popular in Portugal and use of it took off rapidly. This website http://libro.uca.edu/ has a wealth of information on all three Iberian powers including pictures of equipment and buildings.

    Urban Militia - done this unit before

    Archer - done this unit before

    Spearmen - done this unit before

    Feudal Men at Arms - done this unit before

    Chivalric Men at Arms - done this unit before

    Algarave - attack 14 defense 11 (shield 4, skill 6, armour 1) weapon spear men 54 Tier 4
    The Algaraves were the men who took part in an Algara (mounted raid). They usually operated as detachments of the main army, either overwhelming small groups of enemy as encountered or fleeing and joining with the main army when threatened. Algaraves from Lisbon were particularly renowned for their effectiveness, and one popular tactic was to raid an area, drawing out the enemy army and then leading them back to the bulk of friendly forces, destroying them. They would have very good stamina and a good charge, buildable only in the portugese home provinces but they would not do well in a protracted melee. Many Algaraves were actually knights who just wore less armour for speed, and so were quite skillful.

    Jinetes - missile attack 9 melee attack 7 defense 8 (shield 4, skill 4) weapon Javelin men 54 Tier 3
    Jinetes here are the same as in MTW. They were fast cavalry armed with Javelins, this idea being copied after encounteres with rapid berber cavalry.

    Knights of Aviz - same stats as Templar Knights
    The Knights of Aviz were an Iberian Crusading order set up about 1145 in Portugal to extend the Kings domains into Southern Iberia. They were initially known as the Brethren of Santa Maria until they received Aviz in 1211. Then they became known as the Knights of Aviz. Their equipment was mostly black, and in the early 14th century they recieved permission to wear a green cross. They were similar to the other crusading orders in class requirements and equipment.

    Portugese Crossbows - melee attack 3 missile attack 12 defense 6 (armour 3, skill 3) weapon crossbow men 80 Tier 4
    The crossbow was a very popular weapon in Portugal, and soon replaced bows almost entirely. To represent this, I think the Portugese should get crossbows one tier earlier than everyone else (apart from Italians), in Tier 4. They would still take some time to get, but it would be more historically accurate. As they are also a small faction, it would not be too imbalancing. Their crossbows could be cheaper than normal crossbows, but they have less armour, to represent the fact that many militia used them.

    Apellidos - attack 7 defense 14 (skill 4, shield 6, armour 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
    An Apellido was a form of military service called up for in defensive emergencies. Most of the troops first called would be those that have had battle experience before, so they would be a step above the usual militia levies. Warfare and raiding was often intense in the battles against the Moors, so the peasant levies of Iberia were usually of a superior quality to most other places in Europe. These would be sort of the same as Feudal Sergeants, but I thought it would add a bit more colour to use the historically correct terms when possible.

    Besteiros - attack 9 defense 19 (skill 5, shield 6, armour 8) weapon spear men 120 Tier 5
    Besteiros were the portugese term for foot soldiers, and although armed in a variety of ways, spears were commonly used. The portugese army was very defensive in nature after the main threat from the Moors ended, and so that is why I think they should be spearmen.

    Portugese Foot Knights - attack 11 defense 16 (armour 10, skill 6, hitpoints 2) weapon polearm or halberd men 40 Tier 6
    Portugese Knights often fought dismounted, and when battling the Castilians often not a single knight in the main battle line was on horse. Armed with a polearm providing a significant boost to attack against cavalry, they are skillful opponents, although small in number, and not very mobile. Note with the Tiers I know that according to population levels there is no Tier 6, but you could add in buildings like a baronial estate or something which would take a long time to build, to act as a sort of Tier 6. This would represent the historical reality of the situation, as it would be quite bad to have units like Gothic Knights and Jannisaries being able to be built at the same time as Chivalric Men at Arms. For Custom battles and the like, I guess cost is the only real way you can balance them, as historically a 15th century foot knight would always beat a 12th century foot knight, due to the different quality weapons and armour, just like a 21st centry army would always beat a 18th century army.


    OK I dont think I have left anything out, next I will do the Castilians. They were much more cavalry and offense oriented.
    CHIVALRY TOTAL WAR - A medieval mod for RTW
    http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/chivalry/

  14. #74
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    I think i completed the artillery list, i will adress artillery and oddball units in this post for all the muslim factions i have listed.

    Naffatun - same as thunder bombers in STW or Naptha Throwers in MTW, these guys carry small pots that pack explosives, very identical to greek fire but not of the same quality. they have a very small range and are only tasked to lob them and retreat.

    Burning Cloaks - Muslim scientists developed a cloak that can be burnt while keeping its wearer unharmed, these were used particularily for psychological warfare and to direct enemy cavalry.

    Catapult - assembled on the battlefield by skilled engineers, these used steel bows and cords to hurl large stones to destroy castle walls. used to hurl camels/cows or other carcasses for spreading disease and psychological warfare.

    Mangonel -termed by arabs the manganeeq and later used by the europeans and called the Trebuchet, a very powerful seige engine that not only introduced the concept of long range artillery, but almost completly revolutionised seige warfare at that time. unlike catapults wich used cords to hurl projectiles, the mangonel used the gravitation of a heavy counterweight to hurl large 300 lb. stones that could easily destroy castle walls and allow the troops to storm in.

    Note:i'm unsure of the origins of the mangonel, some say it was invented by the romans, based on the onager design and some say it was made in the middle east. others claim it was based of a seige weapon in china regardless of that, it seemed to be a very popular weapon.

    Ballista - a seige engine taken from the byzantines, and improved upon, used to shoot large concetrations of troops, the size of the bolt/arrow depended on the size of the ballista and sometimes peirced through formations. Very slow and innaccurate, but could cause psychological problems to enemy troops when directly hit.

    Mortar - a small cannon, lobbed stones or iron balls or sometimes explosive projectiles, this is the gunpoweder equivelant of the ballista, and used almost exclusively against troops, be it fortified behind castle walls or marching on fields.

    Cannon - a cannon, imported from china and improved upon, these seige engines render castles obsolete as they have a very long range, and can pound a castle in relative safety without bieng exposed to its defences.

    Seige Cannon - a very large, very heavy cannon, stationary and cannot be rotated, but is very powerful and can destroy walls or entire formations of troops in a matter of seconds.

    next post will be about ships for the muslim factions.
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  15. #75
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal
    Burning Cloaks - Muslim scientists developed a cloak that can be burnt while keeping its wearer unharmed, these were used particularily for psychological warfare and to direct enemy cavalry.
    Whoa....cool!
    CHIVALRY TOTAL WAR - A medieval mod for RTW
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  16. #76
    Member Member AFM984's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    I really enjoyed reading the lists, great work guys, but I guess you read what Duke John posted, he says that there is a problem with the files and a complete transformation might not be possible, I'm really looking forward to your mod but this got me worried.

    Faisal do you have any history book that talks about islamic battles and the units in the armies ? if you do please send me the name if it is not much to ask

  17. #77
    Member Member VikingHorde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Good work guys on those unit lists, it's good reading

    @AFM984
    I belive that most problems can be solved in time, so we are doing the work we can untill then. If the problems dosn't get solved, then we might use the units for historycal battles or something, but we will not give up just yet


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  18. #78
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by AFM984
    Faisal do you have any history book that talks about islamic battles and the units in the armies ? if you do please send me the name if it is not much to ask
    My sources are based of books written in arabic sadly, however, these are the names (roughly translated):

    Amr bin Al A'ss art of combat and warfare (mostly on cavalry tactics)

    Banu Hilal (some of the north african units for the almos)

    Early/Late era Abassid history (little bit of unit tactics listed in, maps of battles and such)

    Mahmoud Al Ghaznawi (founder of the ghaznavid state, vassal of the abassids, some units are based of his state for the abassids)

    Khalid bin Al Waleed (greatest muslim/arab commander, field tactics, and also a bit on psychological warfare)

    Islamic History (books 5-6) (seige engines, and unit equipments, also vaguely categorizes units, derived most of the units from it)

    These are the most reliable sources i have. I have 1 book in english, its called the Fall of Jerusalem by Stanley L. Pool, but it talks of Saladins life mostly, but i haven't used it in my research.

    I'll do my best to answer any questions by translating these books directly, if you ever have any that is
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  19. #79
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    I'll do the Castilians now. They were much more offense oriented, and most of their battles were fought offensively. They had quite a lot of cavalry, backed up by men at arms and numerous fairly well trained militias. They also had quite a few kngihtly crusader orders, two main ones being the Knights of Calatrava and the Knights of Santiago. The same website I gave for the portugese gives good further info on these guys and the Aragonese (to come later).

    Urban Militia - done this unit before

    Spearmen - done this uit before

    Archers - done this unit before

    Feudal men at arms - done this unit before

    Chivalric men at arms - done this unit before

    Crossbows - done this unit before

    Jinetes - done this unit before

    Apellidos - done this unit before

    Caballeros Villanos - attack 8 defense 14 (skill 4, shield 6, armour 4) weapon spear men 54 Tier 3
    The Caballeros Villanos were commoner cavalry. Anyone who could provide his own horse, arms and armour of a reasonable quality could become a Caballeros or commoner Knight, with a variety of laws set up by predominately castile and copied by other christian kingdoms to encourage these groups such as indemnities for loss of equipment and horses, right of plunder and protection of plunder (tax free) and granting of estates. For those not from noble families, it was a very good way to gain riches and estates, and become a noble. A member of a caballero was also respected among all classes initially, unusual for groups that have been decreed as being noble without any noble ancestors. They always fought as cavalry.

    Fonsado - attack 11 defense 11 (skill 4, armour 7) weapon peasant polearm (just armour piercing, no cav attack bonus) men 120 Tier 4
    A Fonsado was offensive military service for a number of days for more experienced members of city militia. They were usually armed with fairly good equipment and many were eager to go, as often if a battle was won then huge amounts of plunder could be gained from the rich Moor cities to the South of the penninsular. They were armed with a variety of weapons, the majority being axes and polearms, as a good balanced sword was fairly expensive. They often 'hired' good armour from nobles, in return for part of the plunder they earned.

    Knights of Santiago - attack 11 defense 21 (shield 4, skill 6, armour 11) weapon lance men 54 Tier 5
    The Knights of Santiago were originally formed to protect pilgrams travelling to and from the tomb of Saint James at Compostella, the most important pilgrammage route in Western Europe. The order was approved by the pope in 1175. They had lesser vows than the Templars and Hospitallers, taking only the vow of Chastity. They also had class requirements though, however many Caballeros who became nobles through riches and estates were admitted. They are a tough cavalry unit, able to shatter enemy units with their charge and much more restrained and disciplined than the Templar knights.

    Foot Knights of Calatrava - attack 13 defense 22 (shield 6, skill 6, armour 10) weapon sword men 54 Tier 5
    The Knights of Calatrava were another of the major crusading orders in Iberia, and were confirmed as a military order by the pope in 1164. They held a wide range of castles near the border with the Moors, and so often fought as foot knights. They held estates in all the major Iberian powers lands, but in the wars that often were fought between the Christian powers they nearly always aligned themselves with Castile. There was a schism within the knights over a succession crisis, and they then fought on many sides in the civil wars.

    Heavy Lancers - attack 10 defense 21 (skill 6, armour 15, hitpoints 2) weapon lance men 40 Tier 6
    These are the lancers that the spanish can build in MTW. They are th eultimate unit for the Aragonese and Castilians, and should have possibly the highest charge value in the game. They have good armour to protect them, but after the initial charge they are less effective. Due to the tremendous cost involved in outfitting a warrior with the large amounts of high quality armour, the unit is smaller than usual, and should be very expensive. It was kind of fun having the whole Lancer vs Gothic Knight debates in MTW, so they should both be included here as very good units too!

    Thats some ideas for the Castilians, next I will do the Aragonese.
    CHIVALRY TOTAL WAR - A medieval mod for RTW
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  20. #80

    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Athlete this is great! , keep em coming..

    Id love to the the Holy Roman Empire and English units.
    [VDM]BuuKenshin


  21. #81
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Buujin - thanks for the support unfortunately I dont really know much at all about the English units, and only a little bit about the HRE. I plan to do the Aragonese next, then the Sicilians, then the Italian City states, and then just general ideas. I'll try to include English and HRE stuff in general ideas. I bought a book on medieval Scottish armies a few days ago, so I can post stuff on that too. Unfortunately probably most of this wont make it into the mod as it appears only 18 factions can be included, unless this is fixed in a patch (I hope so!)

    EDIT - umm a bit of your sentence was cut off, did you say you would love to see the English or HRE units, or you would love to do them? If you want to do them then go right ahead, I dont know much so it would be interesting!
    Last edited by Armchair Athlete; 11-06-2004 at 14:13.
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  22. #82
    Scandinavian and loving it Member Lazul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    waow this mod really sounds nice....

    ... but you I will for ever damn you all if you dont inculde the Swedes!

    Ideas for Swedish units;

    Svean axemen; "barbaric style"
    Götar footsoldier; "more organised"
    Longbowmen; "yes swedes accually used longbows, not of the english or welsh quality ofcourse"
    Hirdmen; "kings bodyguard, get upgraded during the game, from swordwielding to lance-charging"
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  23. #83

    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Ok athlete, heres my attempt at listing some units of the HRE, if anyone has any suggestion or comments please tell me as my knowledge is very limited.
    Most of what i will list here is party what i think would be cool to include, as well as historical as far as i know.

    Im wondering firstly if the this mod will cover the full medieval period? ( early , high , late ). like it did in mtw, if so then maybe there should be a faction unit list for each of these eras as many things will change within this timepsan.

    here goes :

    [EARLY ERA HRE UNITS ]


    Goth Warband - (Mercenary unit) attack- 10 defence- 4 weapon- short spear men- 100 ( strong charge , good morale, vunerable to missles )
    From what ive heard the Goths were a very old and tough germanic tribespeople that existed at around 200 ad onwards and migrated all over centeral europe and even into spain and italy. I Suggest they be recruited as mercenary units and i would imagine them as a tougher version of the slav warriors from MTW, a strong charge, a rather weak defence but good morale

    Goth Cavalry - (Mercenary unit) attack 10 defence 14 weapon- spear men 52 ( very strong charge, good morale )
    These guys are the nobels of the gothic federations, i think being a barbarian type people this unit could even be taken strait from rtw without any changes apart from the name (" goth " rather than "gothic")

    Swabian Swordsmen - attack- 14 defence- 8 weapon- double handed sword men - 60 (armour pericing, very good morale)
    The Swabians of south-western Germany are a tough people. Armoured in mail and armed with great two-handed swords, Swabian swordsmen are a powerful heavy infantry unit, with the emphasis on attack.

    Early Imperial Bodyguard - attack- 14 defence - 20 weapon- heavy spear, sword men- 30 ( very strong charge , excellent morale )
    The elite body guard of the german Emperors or Princes, very similar to the royal knights of other catholic kingdoms. Good armour and arms even in the early period, altho i dont belive heavy lances were used back then, hence spears.

    Imperial Knights - attack- 12 defence 18 weapon - heavy spear, sword men 52 ( very strong charge , very good morale )
    Some of the most well trained and eqipped western heavy cavalry in the early period, though very costly to recruit and upkeep.

    Fuedal Knights - attack 8 defence 16 weapon - spear, sword men - 52
    ( very strong charge , good morale )
    Feudal Knights hold land in return for military service. Trained from infancy to be warriors, they hold political and military power in their mailed fists. They are adept at charging down opponents with their lances, and they are honourable and brave to the point of recklessness!

    Fuedal Men at Arms
    Those seeking social position are often hardened warriors - war can bring wealth and social status. Because they are not rich yet, feudal men-at-arms wear second-hand mail looted from the dead (or that is just old fashioned). They carry broadswords and shields, making them equally good in attack or defence.

    Spearmen
    (defend well vs cav )
    Spearmen are useful in almost any army, particularly against cavalry and, unlike other troop types, the first two ranks can fight thanks to their spears. They aren't likely to stand for long against professional men-at-arms, but they can give cavalry a nasty shock as long as they hold formation.

    Archers
    Archery is a survival skill: it helps put food on the table, assuming that the archer isn’t hanged as a poacher! Using the same skill in battle can bring down an armoured man, although short bows are not quite as efficient as true war bows.

    Urban Militia
    (defend well vs cav, armour peircing)
    As cities and trade grow, so does the need for local defence. Some towns and cities can provide a locally raised force, recruited from among apprentices and journeymen. While they only have limited training, their polearms give them an advantage against armoured troops, and they are more disciplined than peasantry.

    Militia Sergants
    (defend well vs cav, armour peircing)
    Militia formations are supplied by the people of growing towns, drawn from amongst the apprentices. Armed with fearsome polearms, they can do significant damage to enemies, but their training is not always of the highest. They can do well against lesser troops, but will quail before more professional soldiery.

    Slav Warband
    ( strong charge , vunerable to missles )
    Slav Warriors have been pressed into service by many lords. Armed with short spears, they are a good low-cost light infantry.

    Fuedal Sergents
    ( defence well vs cav )
    Feudal society is a hierarchy, and each rung of the ladder is expected to serve those above. Feudal Sergeants are a class below knights (but above landless peasants) and are often professional soldiers. Many lords will send these spearmen into battle as reliable medium infantry.

    Mounted Sergents
    ( strong charge )
    These cavalry are more lightly equipped compared to Knights, but they are fast and their heavy lances can be devastating when charging opponents. They are best used to charge home (to an enemy flank or rear, preferably) to cause maximum casualties. Their speed can help them disengage and evade pursuit.
    Last edited by buujin; 11-07-2004 at 20:50.
    [VDM]BuuKenshin


  24. #84
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    buujin - the mod will cover all 3 periods, early high and late (early starting in 1100).

    Now for the Aragonese. They were somewhat of a mix of the defensive nature of the Portugese armies and the cavalry/offensive militia amies of Castilian Spanish. They had a very strong navy and after they conquered the Balearics and rule Sicily through the Sicilian Vespers revolt became a major naval power, competing with the Italian City States (mainly Genoa). The Black Death geatly diminished their power though. The Hospitaller knights were quite strong in Aragon, and assisted with several major battles, including the conquering of Valencia where they were granted border estates to form a buffer against Moor counter attack.

    Urban Militia - done this unit before

    Spearmen - done this unit before

    Archers - done this unit before

    Feudal Men at Arms - done this unit before

    Chivalric Men at Arms - done this unit before

    Jinetes - done this unit before

    Apellidos - done this unit before

    Caballeros Villanos - done this unit before

    Hueste - attack 8 defense 13 (shield 6, skill 4, armour 3) weapon hand weapon men 120 Tier 3
    A Hueste was another form of offensive militia service, similar to the Fonsado but was used more commonly by Aragon and Catalonia, and not being commonly used by Castile until the 13th century, when the Moors were almost already pushed out of Spain, holding onto only Granada. They were not as well armed as a Fonsado, but provided a fairly reliable bulk of men to hinge operations around.

    Hospitaller Foot Knights - done this unit before

    Heavy Lancers - done this unit before

    Crossbows - done this unit before

    Almughuvars - missile attack 12 melee attack 13 defense 9 (skill 6, armour 3, hitpoints 2) weapon javelin and hand weapon men 80 Tier 4
    Almughuvars were Catalan Mercenaries that served throughout the Meditteranean. The word is actually an adaption from Algarave (raider), looking for riches after the pushing back of the Moors to Granada and not having much opportunities for raiding. The most famous of them were the Catalan 'Grand Company', a group of 6500 mercenaries employed by the Byzantines against the Turks in Asia Mior before rebelling and conquering Athens around 1321 (I think). They were evetually booted out by another Iberian Mercenary Company, the Navarrese Company. They are armed with Javelins which they throw before a charge (like a Roman Pila) and were very skillful, if lightly armed fighters. The bulk of them never actually used shields. They fight in a loose skirmishing group (like Silician Pirates in RTW).

    Catalan Heavy Cavalry - melee 9 defense 19 (skill 5, shield 6, armour 8) weapon spear men 54 Tier 4
    Catalan heavy Cavalry were cavalry that were better equipped than the standard Caballeros. There were small amounts of Catalan heavy cavalry in the Catalan Grand Company hired by the Byzantines, before they were betrayed and ambushed by a Byzantine prince and his Alan mercenaries and killed with their leader, Roger de Flor (A former Templar).

    Thats all the historically accurate units I have, I think they should receive a higher Tier Spearmen unit or Halberdier but I dont know what. If anyone has suggestions then thats cool.
    CHIVALRY TOTAL WAR - A medieval mod for RTW
    http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/chivalry/

  25. #85
    Member Member AFM984's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by VikingHorde
    @AFM984
    I belive that most problems can be solved in time, so we are doing the work we can untill then. If the problems dosn't get solved, then we might use the units for historycal battles or something, but we will not give up just yet

    That is a good to hear, wish you the best of luck.

    @Faisal: thank you, and thier is no need for translation because I am an arab " from Saudi Arabia", the name might have been a bit misleading (it stands for the initials of my name) , I will be looking for these books in the local library.
    May I recommend "Albedayah wa Annehayah" Written by ibn Kathier almost 700 years ago. very good for the historical events that took place in the Islamic world.

    I know I have diverted the mainsream of this thread & I'm sorry for that & the fact that I have nothing to contribute with, but I have a few maps that might come in handy if you want.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by AFM984; 11-07-2004 at 08:52.

  26. #86
    aka AggonyAdherbal Member Lord Adherbal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    guys all these lists are very usefull, but dont bother including attack/defence/... stats. A description about their weapons, strengths and weaknesses is more usefull, because stats will be changed trough balance testing anyway.
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  27. #87
    Member Member Armchair Athlete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    As I said in my previous posts, I included it as merely a rough guide to see how effective each should be. There is no real difference between posting attack/defense values as a guide and saying whether they are more effective in attack and defense, its just using numbers instead of words. I also said that they would almost definately be changed for final release. Unless CA gives more factions then most wont be in anyway.
    CHIVALRY TOTAL WAR - A medieval mod for RTW
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  28. #88
    Member Member VikingHorde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal
    guys all these lists are very usefull, but dont bother including attack/defence/... stats. A description about their weapons, strengths and weaknesses is more usefull, because stats will be changed trough balance testing anyway.
    Stats are good when adding units to the text files. I used them for my last mod and then balanced them in custom battle. I find it very hard to set the unit strength without them, because I don't know that much about units in medieval times.

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  29. #89
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Quote Originally Posted by AFM984
    @Faisal: thank you, and thier is no need for translation because I am an arab " from Saudi Arabia", the name might have been a bit misleading (it stands for the initials of my name) , I will be looking for these books in the local library.
    May I recommend "Albedayah wa Annehayah" Written by ibn Kathier almost 700 years ago. very good for the historical events that took place in the Islamic world.
    Hala, good to see another arab on the forums, i live close by hehehe

    Anyways, you can find these books at jurair bookstore, i think they have a branch in Saudia Arabia, also if you have a cultural club (Al Mujama3 al Thaqafy) they have have a wealth of historical books.

    I'll make sure to check the book you mentioned, sounds interesting.
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  30. #90

    Default Re: Medieval - Total War mod

    Just so everyone here knows, Medieval Mod is now being hosted at stratcommandcenter.com official forums are http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...p?showforum=40

    Come on over and check us out.

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