campaign map development (P&M RTW)

[streety]

Sorry Swordmaster, but I thought I was indeed merely (and taff too for the most part) explaining the what and the why - its just that the "why" part can be a very complex issue for this period. However, the fact that you still refer only to Wales rather than Wales and the Marches, nor refer to earlier info we proffered on other parts of Britain, makes me wonder if I've been read or understood, and certainly these research efforts have not been appreciated nor, seemingly, all that politely responded to.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Sorry, to continue on this topic if it bothers anyone. This little piece concerns the city/castle in the Scottish Highlands and in Wales.
Streety may be the only person interested in this...

Wales may not have had a separate geo-political force but it did have a distinct ethnic identity (although some English in Vale of Glamorgan, parts of the border -especially Radnorshire (Sir Faesyfed)- and Flemish/English in southern Pembrokeshire, although George Owen was complaining in the 16th century about the number of Irish people living in Pembrokeshire)), and, like the Cornish and Scottish Gaels, probably took into account which English/British side was more sympathetic to their culture taken choosing their allegiances (look at the Welsh in the Wars of the Roses, the Cornish in the English Civil War/War of the Three Kingdoms, the non-Calvinist Scottish Gaels with the Jacobites etc.).
Which brings me nicely to the Highlands issue again: the capital should NOT be Inverness, it should be somewhere in the Hebrides.

With Henry VIII the distinctions between the principality and the Marches were done away with and, like Streety said, the council of Wales had administrative and legal powers over Wales (except for Monmouthshire)until the late 17th century but was based in Ludlow (just inside England).
So I say, if going for realistic geo-political stuff you should have Monmouth taken out of the Welsh political boundary and should think about placing Ludlow just inside the Welsh border. If not I say go for Carmarthen as it was pretty much the most important Welsh town in the early modern period as well has having a good castle. If not Carmarthen or Ludlow then it should be Denbigh (Dinbych), Brecon (Aberhonddu)or Caernarfon(Welsh is the same).
If you're interested the older Welsh name for Ludlow was Dinan and then Llystwysoc and is now Llwydlo.

[streety]

Thank you Taffy, I'd concur with your above take on the general situation.

[Bar Kochba]

when will this mod actually come out

[SwordsMaster]

Sorry Swordmaster, but I thought I was indeed merely (and taff too for the most part) explaining the what and the why - its just that the "why" part can be a very complex issue for this period. However, the fact that you still refer only to Wales rather than Wales and the Marches, nor refer to earlier info we proffered on other parts of Britain, makes me wonder if I've been read or understood, and certainly these research efforts have not been appreciated nor, seemingly, all that politely responded to.

Sorry If I wasnt polite enough. My bad.
I was referring to Wales only because the discussion apparently started about placing or not a city in Wales or the actual administrative centre in the english territory, am I wrong?

deathtoallhumans The MTW version of the mod is already out, you can check the general thread or the announcement in the Engineers Guild.

The RTW edition is in its very early stages as quite a few members and contributors have summer exams and dont have time for pretty much anything. Also we are waiting (kinda) for the expansion to come out in the hope for greater modding flexibility.

Cheers

[streety]

Yes Swordmaster: Shift (if possible) the border of Wales out around Ludlow and make Ludlow its capital but call it "Wales and the Marches" or some such thing. The rest is all "why", but there's other advice therein for options on castles and ports etc, particularly so if you can't do the above - its just that Wales in that period is a particularly complex issue. Hope you also like the other suggestions we gave for Britain (e.g. Bristol etc).

I'll be happy to check out the MTW version

Anyway, fewer mods, more beer.

[oj121]

New to the forum and im from South Wales myself and ima bout to graduate from uni with a medieval history degree so maybe i can help a little. Although the time period is a few hundred years after my specialist area, i dont think its would be right to impose Ludlow as the captial city in that region, i believe that as the main castle in Wales was Caernarfon, or even Carmarthan then it should be between those to places as the center. It also important to take into account that Carmarthan was the Welsh capital a long time before Cardiff was even founded, as the Cardiff as is seen today was nothing more than a fishing port up until 100 years ago.

[SwordsMaster]

Thanks oj121 and welcome to the forums!

I know nothing about welsh history etc and I guess very few of the team do, so any info is welcome.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

To be honest, it's really got to be Ludlow or Carmarthen.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Ludlow: council of Wales based here. This pretty much was the all Wales authority at the time.

Carmarthen: most important town in Wales at the time.

[Ellesthyan]

Hi Eastside Character! It's magnificent what you've achieved with the Dutch islands, something I haven't seen in any other mod.

On the subject of the port for Groningen: you should add the western portion of Friesland to the Ommelanden and use the location of Harlingen (it was a very important port for the trade with Scandinavia). Also, you might consider giving Breda a port on one of the delta islands if it is reasonably possible (Vlissingen and Zierikzee spring to mind as powerful ports); otherwise a port in the region where nowadays Rotterdam lies (though a little inaccurate, the region was littered with numerous, productive fishing cities like Vlaardingen and Schiedam).
The Netherlands were a sickingly powerful naval nation, carrying the cargo of the known world from it's producers to it's consumers, and back again, while making massive amounts of money.The fleet itself did at one time outnumber the French and English fleets together! I think it is only fair to represent that with an overdosis of ports Call me nationalistic, but give the Dutch their little time of world domination...

[Infestus]

Hey Gentlemen,

Im dementor. This is ,my new account :p

Now about Portugal.
Well it's kinda hard to divide Portugal in 2 regions. In my opinion we should divide it in 3 regions. However i don't know if that is possible, or if it would even make sense to the mod.

If it was to be divided in 3 i would advise the following regions:


Estremadura, with the Capital in Lisboa.
Douro, with the Capital in Porto.
Algarve, with the Capital in Faro or Silves (it depends on the starting date. Faro became the capital of Algarve in 1577. Before that the capital was Silves).

The title of the Portuguese King was "King of Portugal and Algarve". Algarve was until 1910 considered as a diferent kingdom, but unified by the same crown, so it makes sense to consider it a region. Also the city of Sagres, in Algarve was one of the greatests scientific centers in Europe, because Infante D. Henrique had founded the Naval School of Sagres, the one that started the Portuguese Discoveries, and was for many years the greatest scientific center in late medieval Europe.

If it is only possible to divide in 2 regions i would say: Portugal with the capital in Lisbon, and Algarve with the capital in Faro or Silves.

About the geographical strucutre i have nothing to say. It looks fine to me.
Keep up the work m8
Cheers ,

[Jensemann]

HI

There are some changes i would recommend for the map of norway, if its possible of course. Oslo was named Christiania untill 1925 or somewhere around there and Trondheim was named Nidaros. Im not completely sure about the date when these cities changed names, but im sure it was before 1700 when this mod ends.

And another point, a little northwest of oslo is a big lake(the biggest in norway, so its relativly big) kalled "mjøsa" IMO the map of norway looks a bit odd without it.

so now im finished with the complaining,I have to say I really look forward to this mod:D

[beauchamp]

An Idea :
If you used the campaign map from like EB or RTR, then you guys could definently include 5 or 6 more factions as well as a working East India company in Hormuz island and have colonization in western and eastern Africa! And, you could include Mecca as a wonder. Just an idea.

[Ignoramus]

Just a comment, why is there almost no forest in Germany?

[Inal_the_Great]

Here is my educated guess:

Because Germans cut them down to play throw&catch with their wardogs.

[beauchamp]

No forest? then that would explain the whole idea of the Swartzwald .

[cegorach]

Forests will be added, but currently RTW edition mod is 'frozen' MTW 2 should activate it, for now MTW edition is beeing made and there is plenty of time and enough of supporters to prepare mTW 2 edition later on.