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Thread: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

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    Member Member Old Celt's Avatar
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    Default Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    My Numidian campaign is moving along. Taking the city of Carthage really seemed to turn the corner for me. I'm keeping peace with Spain and Gaul in the west, but Egypt just won't leave me alone. Early in the game, I had an important general and about 5 units of javelinmen at Siwa. I used a diplomat for a scout and saw a stack of about 13 Egyptians coming for Siwa. Knowing I couldn't deal with them with what I had, I demolished all the buildings I could for cash and walked my force out of there except for 1 javelin unit. The city rebelled and created a pretty large rebel force. The Egyptian stack ignored the now rebel city, and CHASED me half way to Cyrene!

    I took Cyrene, but it had so few people as to offer no military support for Egyptian conflict. I was in desperate need for cash, so I had to keep taxes high and growth was slow. I focused most of my building efforts on Carthage and Cirta, and was able to squeeze a few extra units out of them, which I put on a ship and used to take Kydonia. Then I continued to work on my economy for all cities except Carthage and Thapsus, which were all military.

    It's 240 BC now, and Egypt took Siwa, and marched a 13 unit stack to nearby Cyrene. I had a general, 3 javelin skirmishers, and 1 numidian cavalry. I now had to concede Cyrene, but this time left the buildings in place and queued a skirmisher for garrison, then took my 5 units and attacked Egypt's 13 which included Desert Cav, chariots, Desert Axemen, the works! I inflicted a few casualties and cut the Desert Cav about in half before my general was killed and the rout was on. I got the remnants of the Numidian cav, and part of 1 javelin unit as survivors. Of course, Cyrene was taken a short time later.

    Now I was getting quite annoyed with Egypt. I needed to defend my frontier, so I sent a full flag army with 2 longshield cav, 2 numidian camel riders, 3 archers, 4 desert infantry, 1 merc hoplite, 4 javelin men, 3 numidian cavalry, and a decent general. It took forever to get to Cyrene with nothing but dirt roads in Lepcis Magna and Cyrene. I found only 2 units garrisoning Cyrene, so laid siege and waited for the inevitable relief army. Sure it came, but too late and Cyrene fell. I left 1 javelin unit for garrison, and took everything else back out toward the relief army of 13 units. Just out of my vision, behind the 13 units, was another army, a full flag with a family member!

    I attacked with my 20 units (I hired a javelin merc in the desert) against their 33 units. The odds were 7 to 3 against me. The battle was huge. My missiles and skirmish cav did great against everything but the chariot archers, 2 units of them. I hadn't brought any slingers, and boy did they make me pay in blood for that mistake! Late in the battle, I had managed to destroy 1 chariot archer unit because they came too close to the main battle line and got jumped hard by all my javelins. But the other unit sat off my left flank and just poured death on me. I don't know if the AI runs out of arrows, but it sure seems that they never run out. Although everything else they had was running away, that 1 chariot unit stayed with it. After chasing down all the routers, I sent about 80 longshields after the chariots who were retreating in good order. I managed to rout the chariots, but they savaged the cav, with about 35 of them left. Egypt was left with a half a heavy chariot unit that routed away early, and half a chariot archer unit out of their 33 starting units.

    It seems like a stalemate now. They can't take Cyrene with only chariot units, and I can't retrain without marching all the way back to Thapsus. I sure wish there was a way to make Cyrene useful to me quickly. The answer is probably to return with 2 full armies from Carthage next time so fresh higher level troops will be available.

    I got the population of Carthage past 12,000 and built an Army Barracks. After 6 turns of building the 4600 denarii barracks, I can finally build Numidian Legionarys. But they take 2 turns to build! Oh well, in the meantime I can build a catapult range so onagers will be available for the next Egyptian incursion.

    So far I'm enjoying the Numidians more than any other faction. Playing on M/VH, the play is tough but not insanely hard. The limited/weak units at the start really force you to get the most out of them, and finances are extremely tight for a long time. These guys have are more fun than a barrel full of monkeys!!

  2. #2
    Chief Biscuit Monitor Member professorspatula's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I found the Numidian campaign is a terrific challenge. I haven't finished the campaign though - I played about 30 years or so and then spent more time modifying the game and playing experimental campaigns.

    Regarding Egypt, I had to pull out of the cities near them. I managed to make a lot of money off Egypt by agreeing to be their protectorate twice, but they always attacked - on the same turn as becoming their protectorate too! I held on for as long as I could, but lost Siwa. I built up Cyrene slowly, but it was only a matter of time before they came for that, so I had to plan an evacuation. I got my only ship (with half it's crew dead) to sail from Spain to Cyrene. It took about 4 turns to reach the shores, and I emptied the town of all but 1 unit of peasants and loaded up the ship. And on that very turn, Egypt sieged the town! But I had some luck. I destroyed every building I could and raised the tax rate to very high, trying to make it revolt. And it did! My peasants were kicked out but Macedonian peasants took over! That confused the Egyptians - they refused to attack, halting their expansion plans. My ship then sailed towards Carthage and the peasants from Cyrene attempted to escape on foot. They all survived the journey, and they met up with my forces west of Carthage and took part in offensive battles against the Scipii. It was like my own version of the Dunkirk evacuation of WWII.

    I then built up massive armies of Skirmisher cavalry, the only useful unit in the early Numidian roster (and about the most cost efficient considering I never have any money) and fought in several battles against superior Scipii forces, typically annihilating them with my lethal rain of javelins. I helped my allies Carthage as much as possible, but when Scipii took their cities, I took them back - and kept them. I also moved into Spain, taking the Eastern settlements there, but as I left the campaign, my allies the Britons are looking menancing. They have all of Gaul, and several large stacks of men are nearby, passing by my settlements. Julii are severally weak, Gaul has just 1 settlement next to me, and Spain is also weak. There's not one force nearby to stop them and I don't really have the spare resources to fight them, the Spanish and Scipii.

    It's been one of the better campaigns I've had and I'll return to it at some stage, although with the modding I've done since, it'll be a slightly different experience I'm sure.

  3. #3
    Resident Pessimist Member Dooz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I love reading things like these. LOVE EM!

    That is all...

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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Numidia was one of the few challenging factions in the game. I tried it for the longest time without taking out Carthage on VH/VH. I finally had to concede that wouldn't work and went after Carthage right away. Without taking Carthage, Egypt was just too strong, and when I managed to keep Egypt out of Siwa, the Scipii always opened another front after devouring Carthage

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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    numidian units sucks

    We do not sow.

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    Member Member Sas_Legion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    numidian units sucks
    not always
    after playing MTW/VI and the new one RTW I believe that there is no unit cann't be usefull . eg Twon Watch as the game says keeping police and loyalty but I say cheep unit for pushing rams rather the hastati and pricipes .. do u want your expensive units die that way . it is example and so on u know that Numidian cavalary are unstopable aginst roman foot units . yah egy units are powerfull but use your mind and tactics and be the winner
    Sas_Legion

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    It was a trap, after all. Member DukeofSerbia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I sent my Didmidi's garrison to took Carthage on start (easily) and I abandoned Siwa and Siwa's garrison took Thebes and later Memphis and Alexandria because Egypt on start have no troops in those three cities. And from east (I can't remember city name) go on Corduba and later on Spaniyards. That I do in my first turn. I allied with Scipii nad Seleucid in start.
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    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    In the numidian game, don't give up Siwa as lost. It's a valuable base. Leave just 1 jav on the first turn and queue a peasant. march entire army to Thebes. I got there before they had a wall and assaulted right away.

    Hide your numidian cav behind buildings and the bowmen will pump arrows into the buildings. Mouse over to see when they run out of ammo.

    Then, get close and try to use yoru javs, then finish the spearmen and bowmen at the town center.

    You get an archer factory out of Thebes right away. Park your army on a bridge and rack up a few heroic victories. Then, take the poorly defended Memphis and then sack Alexandria to push them out of the Nile delta.

  9. #9
    Member Member Old Celt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I appreciate that you can take out Egypt on turn 4, but would rather fight them at their full strength as I am now with the best units Numidia can produce. It is true that Numidia has limited selection, but they have units good enough that, with experience, can defeat anyone.

    The camel riders are great. They send the elite horse cavalry running away crying like little girls. Numidian jav cavalry are probably the best skirmishing unit in the game. Numidian legionaries are competent, if not as terrific as the Roman version. You have onagers.

    It takes time to build a strong military. You must adapt tactics to hit and run style, punctuated by crushing the enemy with camels and longshields when they make the fatal mistake of overpursuing you. It is the opposite of Roman warfare: in Numidia, cavalry and missiles are much more valuable than infantry. Units are valuable: you cannot afford to treat any of them as fodder for a long time into the campaign. You WILL lose generals in combat, and unlike Roman campaigns, you WILL lose battles when fighting the best units your enemies can field. For me, that's the kind of challenge I always wanted.

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    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I've just started playing Numidia (M/M) - used the garrison at Siwa to take Thebes as I could see the Egyptian stack heading my way (left a group of peasants there). When I took Thebes Egypt offered me a protectorate - I said - give me 5K and I'll agree. Egypt didn't take Siwa and two turns later I occupied Memphis - and the Egyptian army turned round from Siwa to meet oblivian. Siwa never did fall.

    On the Eastern Front, I actually took Thaspus as the large Carthaginian Army headed along the coast. Then, when it was well away took Carthage. Carthage sued for peace and I said fine (+ trade rights). Corduba is now Spanish (allies) so Carthage must be down to a couple of towns. Hope the army (which retreated out of Africa, I hope) can hold off the Scipii.

    Economically I am building temples to boost farming output since in most places this far exceeds trade (at least in the early game, not sure about later.)

    With Egypt kicked out of the Nile delta (Alexandria is mine) and Carthage kicked out of Africa, am now considering my options. Suspect it will involve Sidon, Damascus and Jerusalem at one end - an alliance with the Selucids if possible and may also involve a trip over to Sicily to see if I can stop the Scipii. There is always the Brutii which are usually very weak as they plough troops into Greece.

    The only comment regarding troops is that Numidan cavalry do better against Phalanxes than round-shield, so may recruit Numidians for the Eastern Theatre and ROund-Shield for the centre/ West. (They also do a good job on Elephants, but I wont meet any more for quite a few turns.)

    Funniest battle was relieving Alexandria on the Bridge - I had a good stack from Memphis (no archers) and the AI controlled a good stack from Alexandria (with archers). I basically used my missile troops one at a time on the bridge to attack the phalanx on the right (SOP to avoid shields) but when the AI troops arrived they simply charged accross the bridge and got slaughtered. That was a lucky one.

    My main concern for the future is the NUmidian Navy - a toy boat in a bathtub has more fire power.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Economically I am building temples to boost farming output since in most places this far exceeds trade (at least in the early game, not sure about later.)
    Later, sea trade will exceed all other forms of income combined.

    Bold plan to take on the Big Gold Machine

    My main concern for the future is the NUmidian Navy - a toy boat in a bathtub has more fire power.
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    Philosophically Inclined Member CountMRVHS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I'm a bit hesitant to build farm upgrades, depending on the location. If it's already a high-growth region, forget about it. If it's a small, 2% pop growth on Medium taxes... maybe. I'm more inclined to build farm upgrades if I'm playing a faction with lots of infrastructure options. But say I'm playing a barbarian faction and just took over some Greek town... probably not.

    I can't remember exactly what Numidia can build for public order stuff, but I don't think it's a ton, and so I'd tend to go for trade rather than farms - especially in the fast-growing Nile provinces.

    I'm curious to see who is going to take over in the East now that you've neutered Egypt - probably Pontus?

  13. #13
    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Later, sea trade will exceed all other forms of income combined.

    Bold plan to take on the Big Gold Machine



    The problem with Numidia is that they can only build ports - no shipwrights or dockyards, so you only get one export. I agree that for the cities which will have big trade using that temple is a good idea - but at the moment income from agriculture far exceeds trade income - and I need income!

    With regards to selection - basically if the total population growth is 8% or less (before squalor) (target 24K people) I develop agriculture (inc temples). If there is well-known rebellion then I'll build public order.

    Popped over to Sicily - took Lillybaun, defeated the Scipii army there and the other two cities have no garrison worth mentioning. One is sieged and will fall next turn, when I'll move the army over to the last one (Syracuse). I have one large Egyptian army near Alexandria, but once that one is defeated I think Sidon is on my list. (Lillybaun still had a Carthaginian governor villa so cultural penalty is minimal)

    It is 256BC (I think) so plenty of time before Marius raises his ugly head.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    The problem with Numidia is that they can only build ports - no shipwrights or dockyards, so you only get one export.
    Not sure if you're playing a modded version, but in vanilla RTW, Numidia gets dockyards which means 3 trade routes and the ability to build quinqueremes

    Numidian temple choices are Milqart (a +4 trade temple max), Baal (+20 Law/+20 Happiness), and Tanit (+4 farming max).
    High Plains Drifter

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    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I've got Numidian cities with ports that can't upgrade to shipwrights - Mind you I have taken Croton with a Shipwright and can build trimarenes there. (I am playing vanilla)

    (DO I bother with Numidian legionary soldiers - 2 turns a flash for troops worse than Principes - or just keep recruiting cavalry (both types) - of the latter this looks rather like a parthian game, at least the Numidian cavalry do better in melee than Parthian HAs)

    So far the Julii have sent 4 full stacks at Tarentum - usually losing them all for about 10% casualties.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    I've got Numidian cities with ports that can't upgrade to shipwrights
    You must have a 12k population with the third tier governors building completed. I liked the Numidian Legionaire. Better on the defensive, IMHO. Beats the hell out of Desert Infantry, at any rate
    High Plains Drifter

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    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    When does Marius kick in?

    It is 236BC - All Southern Italy is mine including Rome. The Scipii are down to 1 city in Greece and, going by territories, Pontus looks to be the winner in the Middle East.

    Money is still in short supply though - this is hampering expansion. Maybe I have too many units.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    When does Marius kick in?
    When the first Roman city hits 24k and builds an Imperial Palace. I know a lot of places say it has to happen in Italy and it can't be Rome itself, but I've seen Rome trigger it (as no other Roman city at the time had a 24k pop), and I've seen Carthage trigger it (as it was the only Roman city with 24k at the time).

    Money is still in short supply though - this is hampering expansion. Maybe I have too many units.
    My rule of thumb is that army upkeep should be no more than 50% of income. Exceptions can be made once the treasury hits the million denarii mark (or higher). Maximizing sea trade is priority as it is the single largest source of income. As corollary to that, you must strive to have connected trade routes. It doesn't do any good to have the capability for a port to have 3 routes, but only utilize one or two because there is a break in the chain. You can check on the city management page to see who is trading with a particular city.

    Make sure you have trading rights with those you can trade with...it doubles the trade (both land and sea).

    There are three major sea trade hubs on the map, one for each section of the Mediterranean. For the Eastern Med, it's Salamis, which allows coastal Middle East cities to trade with the Nile Delta; for the Central Med, it's Kydonia, which allows coastal Anatolia to trade with Greece; for the Western Med, it's Caralis, which allows Roman cities to trade with African cities.

    Also check your corruption levels. Sometimes, despite being a good city manager, a family member can be dipping heavily into your coffers (for various reasons). Change him or find something else for him to do. And with a lot of family members, wages can get out of hand, at times. I collect all of my family members, from time to time, who can no longer contribute anything to the cause, put them on a single bireme, and fight the largest enemy fleet they can find, or...send them to assault a city Cruel, but war is as much a business as it is a conflict
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-09-2017 at 16:34.
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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    When the first Roman city hits 24k and builds an Imperial Palace. I know a lot of places say it has to happen in Italy and it can't be Rome itself, but I've seen Rome trigger it (as no other Roman city at the time had a 24k pop), and I've seen Carthage trigger it (as it was the only Roman city with 24k at the time).
    Not necessarily the first city. If I am the Brutii, it is usually the second, or rarely the third, once the Imperial Palace is complete. Unless you mean when user is not playing as Rome.

    I like using the worthless family members as roving bands of vigilantes to wipe out rebel armies. Sometimes if low on worthless family members or it is too much trouble to collect them all I will have an army of heavy cav to do that, perhaps with a family member or two to help. That way, I can retrain, and don't have to worry about if I have a family member or not. Macedonian and Legionary Cav are great for this.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
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  20. #20
    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Pontus has attacked - the Selucids are wiped out - their army does better against me than the Romans since they are mainly spearmen when I relieved Sidon (which means they are effective against horse - and the legionary troops take a long time to build.)

    Had Spy problems with them - the first real indicator of what a spy can do - had something like 80% unrest and 80% distance penalty for Jerusalem. Then the Spy moved to Sidon and increased unrest there - and then moved back to Jerusalem to repeat the unrest. Eventually my own spies killed him off.

    I think that Pontus is relatively weak - it certainly looks that way in the graphs section - but is benefitting from a very compact region - basically all of Turkey - (and now Damascus, which is only a town, so wont help them that much). My own area stretches from Tingi (opposite Corduba) in the West, Patavium (North Central) and Jerusalem in the East. There is a LOT of 80% distance penalties and the Nile cities aren't really helping that much since they have large peasant garrisons. However I can't move the capital over there until I have numidified Italy.

    I want to basically kick the Julii out of Italy (Menolevium/ Segesta and the original city in the West of Italy to take), take Caralis, and fight a holding campaign against Pontus. No doubt the Brutii will send forces up to Patavium, but that I can manage, and am now getting some reasonable income each turn - sufficient for some development - although I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Unless you mean when user is not playing as Rome.
    That's what I meant....

    I think that Pontus is relatively weak
    Watch out if they get developed Heavy Pontic Cavalry are as much a pain in the a$$ as horse archers (and watch out because these guys are very good in melee once they run out of javelins!), Cappadocian Cavalry are a variant on heavy Cataphracts, they get both variants of Chariots (scythed and archer), and Phalanx Pike along with Bronze Shield Pike. A formidable roster. A fun faction to play, btw, due to the unit roster and location.

    I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)
    The only time I fail to reach at least 1M denarii in a campaign is when playing a barbarian faction. I play on VH/H settings, so the VH for the campaign map means a penalty on income (-10% IIRC), big bonuses in denarii for the AI, and the part I enjoy the most---rebels will actually band together if left alone and attack your cities (Spartacus anyone?)

    Can't tolerate the bonuses given the AI (+7's) on VH battle difficulty. If I'm defeated on the battlefield, I want it to be because I used faulty tactics or had inferior quality troops...not super peasants trouncing my elite
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-10-2017 at 14:18.
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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    and watch out because these guys are very good in melee once they run out of javelins!
    Hear, hear. Now, if you don't mod Pontus, they only get 80 men in a Phalanx Pike unit, but they have better stats than standard Phalanx Pikes. Their attack is the same, but defense is 3 better, which puts their attack 2 worse and defense 2 better than Bronze Shields. I would imagine Bronze Shields have better morale, not to mention 121 men, so certainly it is better for Pontus to use Bronze Shields, the loss in defense is made up for by better stamina, morale, and more men. Cappadocian Cav have same stats as Cataphracts, but their secondary attack is not armour-piercing, being swords instead of maces.

    I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)
    My Scipii campaigns never reach that, but as Greece, I have had over 12,000,000 denarii before. Certainly as Brutii you will achieve multiple millions. The temples of Hermes/Mercury help there, and Greece starts out with the Colossus of Rhodes, making it even more lucrative. Greece is also right in the Aegean, which in my opinion is the most lucrative region in the game. I have seen Athens making over 12,000 denarii. Tarentum also does well, have seen it over 7,000, so the Adriatic is also good. I play on M/M.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  23. #23
    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Butler View Post
    Hear, hear. Now, if you don't mod Pontus, they only get 80 men in a Phalanx Pike unit, but they have better stats than standard Phalanx Pikes. Their attack is the same, but defense is 3 better, which puts their attack 2 worse and defense 2 better than Bronze Shields. I would imagine Bronze Shields have better morale, not to mention 121 men, so certainly it is better for Pontus to use Bronze Shields, the loss in defense is made up for by better stamina, morale, and more men. Cappadocian Cav have same stats as Cataphracts, but their secondary attack is not armour-piercing, being swords instead of maces.



    My Scipii campaigns never reach that, but as Greece, I have had over 12,000,000 denarii before. Certainly as Brutii you will achieve multiple millions. The temples of Hermes/Mercury help there, and Greece starts out with the Colossus of Rhodes, making it even more lucrative. Greece is also right in the Aegean, which in my opinion is the most lucrative region in the game. I have seen Athens making over 12,000 denarii. Tarentum also does well, have seen it over 7,000, so the Adriatic is also good. I play on M/M.
    Think I may have to give up Numidia campaign.

    Memphis rebelled (big stack there now of rebels) - so lost Egyptian loyalty.

    Brutii keep attacking Patavium. No real problems here, except it slows down growth as I keep having to deal with the army. I actually had a city defence on the map - 3 archers, 1 mercenry, 1 Numidian Legionary, One Desert soldiers and the general - who didn't do much except stay close to the troops - against two beseieging armies: The ram on the gates inflicted 87% damage before I had killed all the troops manning it (with oil as well of course) but once the velites on ladders were killed I spent 30 minutes twiddling my thumbs - the siege tower manned by principes never advanced. I have taken Caralis and can probably build up to taking the Julii capital of Segesta.

    No - the problem is Pontus. They are so compact (all of Asia Minor) that they can keep sending stack after stack at my army camped in the valley outside Sidon, and reinforcing isn't easy since I need large garrisons in Sidon & Jerusalem. The latest stack is virtually all cavalry - including horse archers/ chariots, so I fear the worst. I only make 4000 - 8000 to spend a turn (corruption is terrible - any ideas how to get it down?)

    What annoyed me is that I weakened the three Roman factions so much (at one time or another) that I hoped they would be struggling against the Gauls/ Brits or Greek Cities/ Macedon/ Thrace - but they are bouncing back - it looks as if no one dared attack them.

  24. #24
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by weejonnie View Post
    What annoyed me is that I weakened the three Roman factions so much (at one time or another) that I hoped they would be struggling against the Gauls/ Brits or Greek Cities/ Macedon/ Thrace - but they are bouncing back - it looks as if no one dared attack them.
    That's actually normal behaviour: the A.I. is programmed to not fight factions that are at war with the player. It's a very frustrating feature: you attack someone that's at war with two other factions, and the next turn both declare a ceasefire. There's a couple of things you can do to make diplomacy more sane, but this particular feature is built into the A.I.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Think I may have to give up Numidia campaign.
    Without any screenies, I'd have to say you expanded too fast without securing what you captured with an iron hand

    Memphis rebelled (big stack there now of rebels) - so lost Egyptian loyalty.
    I don't understand why more players don't adopt my method of ZPG It doesn't work 100% of the time, but almost I rarely have to deal with rebellions in my campaigns, and even then the greatest risk is only just after conquering a city. Give me a year or two and the whole squalor/unrest thing goes away...even with cities like Carthage, Alexandria, Tanais, etc. that have grain-driven population grwoth, or cities with large unrest % built in (coded) like Jerusalem, Patavium, Tarsus, etc. It's not that difficult to do, and I pretty much laid out the guidelines for doing it in the ZPG thread we had here awhile back...

    No - the problem is Pontus.
    You were warned

    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-18-2017 at 20:56.
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  26. #26
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I don't understand why more players don't adopt my method of ZPG It doesn't work 100% of the time, but almost I rarely have to deal with rebellions in my campaigns, and even then the greatest risk is only just after conquering a city. Give me a year or two and the whole squalor/unrest thing goes away
    It is certainly a consideration with me now. I have not quite got it ironed out like you have, but I look at the city and use that to determine what I want to do. Salona grows slowly, I use a population growth temple if I can. Patavium or others with built-in unrest, I use a public order temple. I am hesitant in some places to upgrade my markets because of it. Taxes are also a great controller of growth, but then you run into increased unrest because of the taxes.

    Now, I also keep larger garrisons in case the town gets attacked, and to help with public order. Now, with my Macedon campaign, I can probably field weak units in Greece, I have more Levy Pikemen and Militia Hoplites there than on my frontiers. Greek towns, as Macedon, are not likely to riot or be attacked, at this point. I do keep good units around, like Phalanx Pikemen, to create my armies. For a while Greece was an army factory. Using Thermon, Larissa, Athens, Corinth, and Sparta, I could train an army of ten units in two turns, and so was cranking out armies. Macedon can certainly make the money to do that.

    That's actually normal behaviour: the A.I. is programmed to not fight factions that are at war with the player.
    I would say the exception to that would be Rome against Egypt. I know in my current Macedon, Rome is fighting me and Egypt, who is also fighting me. Stupid Egyptians backstabbed me as I was coming to their aid (not like I did not expect it). Scipii took Alexandria and Memphis from them, so I was moving to take those towns to weaken Scipii. Never mind that by taking those towns, Egypt would not be made any stronger, which was also part of my plan. My enemy takes my ally's towns, then I take those from my enemy. I would have to take them anyway, so I would rather do it while allied with Egypt so that they are weakened, while I can pretend to be a good ally by weakening their enemy, all the while strengthening myself.

    Seems like the computer are also hardcoded to ally against you, when they normally would be mortal enemies. Case in point, if I am Seleucia, then Parthia, Egypt, Pontus, and Armenia all attack quickly, even allying amongst themselves. If I am somebody else, say Rome, those guys all go to war quickly with each other, with Egypt almost always prevailing. I have seen Pontus take Egypt pretty much out, and even get all the way to Carthage. Only saw that once.
    Last edited by Vincent Butler; 10-18-2017 at 23:09.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Butler View Post
    Seems like the computer are also hardcoded to ally against you, when they normally would be mortal enemies.
    It's not an absolute law, just a strong tendency. It can be overruled by other diplomatic considerations. The problem is that, particularly at high campaign difficulties, relationships between the player and other factions will automatically deteriorate if no interaction takes place. This is another stupid feature, leading to the A.I. hating you for no particular reason. As such, they are likely to consider you their mortal enemy - and hence stop fighting others.

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    Member Member weejonnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    With cities, I usually destroy anything I don't need, replace the temple (if possible that turn - if not as soon as the public order can stand it.) and build-over anything I can. I can withstand an immediate loss of (extra income) for long-term security.

    One problem with Numidia is that the secret police/ execution square system is only giving 5% bonus for law, whereas in the Parthia campaign it was giving 5% + 5% for each level.

    Anyway - at the moment I am recruiting peasants like no tomorrow and moving the better troops out of garrison duty. If Spain invades Tingi then I am in trouble, otherwise it is a win-win (cheaper recruiting an release of better troops.) - Having taken Caralis, I now have half a dozen Julii fleets parked in front of it (nowhere near the docs) - funny waste of resources.

    Still holding back Pontus - haven't worked out best mix yet, but think a few archers/ numidian missile cavalry would be better than long-shield cavalry/ camel cavalry. (Obviously use legionaries to set up the infantry line)

  29. #29
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    As such, they are likely to consider you their mortal enemy - and hence stop fighting others.
    That's fine. I consider them all my mortal enemies, anyway. To quote Skipper from The Penguins of Madagascar, "Friends are only enemies who haven't attacked you yet." I never work for their good unless I benefit as well. I will not, however attack anybody I am allied with; the only exception to that rule attacking the Senate if I am one of the Romans. That is kind of the point of the game, after all.

    at the moment I am recruiting peasants like no tomorrow
    Kills two birds with one stone. Creates garrison cheaply (I think peasants count, I may have seen somewhere that they don't have a garrison effect), and reduces population. That is where the large units like Warband or Eastern Infantry come in handy. They certainly get both. I think that is kind of the purpose of units of Town Watch, Town Militia, or Militia Hoplites. A cheap garrison unit, but does not diminish population as much as the peasants. Now, my main garrison unit in peaceful places is Levy Pikemen. I value the extra attack over the extra defense, as the spear wall will keep more enemies off of them if they do need to fight.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  30. #30
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

    With cities, I usually destroy anything I don't need, replace the temple (if possible that turn - if not as soon as the public order can stand it.) and build-over anything I can. I can withstand an immediate loss of (extra income) for long-term security.
    Extermination, while it solves short-term hassles, reduces your income for quite some time. Having said that, there are times where there is almost no other choice; capturing a Huge City far from your capital and subject to a large cultural penalty, is a prime candidate for extermination. Certain cities like Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, Corduba (all have built-in unrest---some as high as 35%) are also on the list for extermination. If you are capturing a city with your own cultural bias, or something in the town to large town size, or fairly close to your capital, extermination is a bad idea. It's a fine line to walk, but refraining from "auto-exterminate" pays off (literally) in the end.

    Creates garrison cheaply (I think peasants count, I may have seen somewhere that they don't have a garrison effect), and reduces population.
    Peasants most definitely count as garrison. Check this out:

    http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...rrison-Effects

    Still holding back Pontus - haven't worked out best mix yet, but think a few archers/ numidian missile cavalry would be better than long-shield cavalry/ camel cavalry. (Obviously use legionaries to set up the infantry line)
    Long Shields are at a disadvantage (to Pontic Heavy Cav) in attack value (7 vs 9), and about equal in defense (15 vs 14) but much like Horse Archers, you have to chase them all over the map and need two units to corner each one...tedious and risky if they get too far behind enemy lines. Camel Cavalry are too slow to catch them. Archers, screened by infantry is the best means (Desert Infantry is cheaper and has a bonus vs cavalry, and it's usually the infantry that takes the brunt of the javelin fire) ...Pontic cavalry standing still chucking javelins at you, are far easier to kill than chasing them. Javelin unit vs javelin unit gains you no advantage

    With a more robust economy, Ellies would be your main line-busters
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; Yesterday at 20:34.
    High Plains Drifter

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