Army Lists

[Myrddraal]

Andreas: Edited Domani army-lists (18-03-2005)
Basic units

Peasants
Levy Pikemen
Pikemen
Armoured Pikemen
Peasant Archer
Archer
Crossbowmen
House Guards
House Armsmen (These are swordsmen, just with a different name to make them more interesting)
Royal Armsmen
Local Militia
Town Militia
County Militia

Mounted Militia
Light Horse
Mounted Armsmen (swords shield)
Mounted Nobles
Noble Retainers
Mounted Crossbows


Tarabon

King’s Life Guard (Mounted and Dismounted)
Panarch’s Legion (Pikemen)
Taraboner Lancers
Taraboner Infantry (Spearmen)

Andor

Queens Guards (Mounted and Dismounted)
White Lions(Mounted & Dismounted) Note only in Rand era
Two Rivers Longbows
Miner Militia (From the mines in the mountains of mist)
Billmen
Men of Caemlyn(Swordsmen Medium Armor)
Two River Peasants (pretty badass peasants armed with Spears)

Tear

Defenders of the Stone (Mounted and Dismounted)
Tairen Heavy Horse
Godan Cavalry
Maredo Cavalry
Tairen Horse Archers
Tairen Lancers

Amadicia

Guardians of the Gate(Mounted & Dismounted)
Children of the Light(Mounted & Dismounted)
Children of the Light Archers
Children of the Light Crossbowmen
Amadician Pikemen (Heavy Duty)
Zealots
Amadician Crossbowmen

Cairhien

Cairhien Vanguard(Mounted & Dismounted)
Guardians of the Dragonwall(Mounted & Dismounted)
Cairhienen Nobles
Billmen
Free Companies (Two handed swords)
Cairhienen Infantry (Pikemen)

Murandy

Royal Guards (Mounted and Dismounted)
Murandian Bandits (Archers)
Merchant Guards (Mounted and Dismounted)
Lugard Brigands (Spearmen)

Shienar

Shienaran Royal Lancers
Shienaran Mounted Bows
Borderland Militia
Fal Daran Cavalry
Two-Handed Sordsmen
Borderguards(Mounted & Dismounted)

Arafel

Arafellin Knights (Mounted and Dismounted)
Mounted Swordsmen
Arafellin Swordsmen (Two Swords)
Arafellin House Armsmen
Borderland Militia
Arafellin Light Horse
Borderguards(Mounted & Dismounted)

Kandor

Royal Lancers (Mounted and Dismounted)
Kandori Lancers
Kandori Heavy Infantry
Kandori Armsmen
Kandori Archers
Borderland Militia
Chariots?
Borderguards(Mounted & Dismounted)

Saldea

Saldean Royal Lancers
Saldean Light Cavalry
Saldean Light Swords
Saldean Light Javelins
Saldean Footarchers
House Bashere Swordsmen
Borderland Militia
Borderguards(Mounted & Dismounted)

Ghealdan

Defenders of the Wall (On foot)
Royal Guards(Mounted & Dismounted)
Billmen
Jehanna City Guard

Illian

Companions (Mounted and Dismounted)
Sailors
Councils Bodyguard (Maces)

Mayene

Winged Guards (Mounted and Dismounted)
Marines

Altara

Palace Guard (Mounted and Dismounted)
Altaran Light Horse
Bandits

Arad Doman

Royal Guards(Mounted & Dismounted)
Domani Heavy Swordsmen
Merchant Guards (Mounted and Dismounted)
Order of the Council (battle axe, mounted and foot)

The Shadow - Shayol Ghul

Myrddraal
Dha'vol Band
Dhai'mon Band
Ko'bal Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dha'vol Fist
Dhai'mon Fist
Ko'bal Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Dha'vol Clan

Myrddraal
Dha'vol Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dha'vol Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Dha'vol

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Ko'bal Clan

Myrddraal
Ko'bal Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Ko'bal Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Ko'bal

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Dhai'mon Clan

Myrddraal
Dhai'mon Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dhai'mon Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Dhai'mon

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

Tar Valon

Aes Sedai
Tower Guards
Younglings(Mounted & Dismounted)
Tar Valon Heavy Cavalry
Tar Valon Halbierers
Tar Valon Swordsmen
Men of Tar Valon(Milita)

Seachan (Rand Era only)

Death Watch Guards(Mounted & Dismounted)
Death Watch Ogier Guards
Damane
Cavalry
Seachan Beast Riders
Seachan Cavalry
Infantry
Seachan Falxmen
Seachan Spearmen
Seachan Swordsmen
Seachan Archers

Aiel

Clan Chiefs Guard
Red Shields(Light Infantry)
Thunder Walkers(Heavy Infantry)
Far Dareis Mai(Light Aiel - like scouts)
Stone Dogs(Medium Infantry)
Water Seekers(Light Skirmishers)
True Bloods(Archers)
Brothers of the Eagle(Heavy Skirmishers)
Night Spears(Maybe like Night Raiders with a frighten enemy option?)
Black Eyes(Heavy Archers)
(No idea what to do with the two left...Maybe an elite aiel unit?)
Dawn Runners
Knife Hands

People of the Dragon (These include the Aiel and Tairens in the Rand era)

Asha'man (Mounted & Dismounted)
Wise Ones-(Rand era, never fought before dumai wells)
Legion of the Dragon (Heavy Crossbowmen with good swords fighting skills also)
Band of the Red Hand

[The Stranger]

is this for STW, MTW or RTW

[Andreas]

R:TW

Those list aren't entirely true... I will update them when I have time.

Edit: done

[Khan48]

Are mounted militia heavier than light horse? For Saldea and Shinear first stage cavalry should be better because in the borderlands their even their peasants are skilled riders.

[Andreas]

The common units are only for the innerlands, and mounted militia isn't better then either Borderguars or light cav.

[Black_Draen]

Andreas: Only so know I'm going to try remake the borderguard cavalry so they are better armoured - a bit like Borderguard Infantry but at horses. Hope you don't mind.

Also, I'll update the Shadow's army-list.

[Steppe Merc]

In RTW, is it possible to do hiding units like in MTW and in STW? Perhaps one or two of the Aiel could be good at hiding and ambushing... Mabye all can hide in tall grass (I believe that's a skill of some sort), while one or two can always disapear?

About the Aes Sedai, perhaps you could make them like generals? One Aes Sedai in a unit, with one or two Warders as bodyguards? Not sure if it's possible, however for that sort of unit to be recruitable and always have a "general" unit...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The probelm with the Aeil is that in order to be accurate to the books they have to own everything.

Which sucks if your not Rand Al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn, Lord of the Morning, The Prince of Dawn...etc, etc.

[Gurkhal]

Probably a little difference from the books for game balance will be needed.

But the Aiel arn't invincible. They got little or no armour with small shield. Thus both cavallery charged and missile fire would be quite good against them. And both longbows and crossbows outrange the Aiel's shorter bows.

[Steppe Merc]

Eh, no the bows wouldn't be outranged just because they're shorter. They seem like composite bows, which were superior to longbows and crossbows (if you make em properly).
Horn and sinew compress better than wood, and that is almost certaintly what they made them off (since their desert would be as devoid of wood as the steppe warrior's who perfected the composite bow.)

But I think that the Borderlanders would be able to beat them, evauntaully. You have your horse archers incircle them, firing. They would take casualties, but then you charge with your heavy horse. Once the Aiel move foward to take those heavy horse, you take them from behind with fresh heavy horse.
I believe that is what the essential tactic was in New Spring, at the begging with Lan.

If you were Mat, and you could try and have pikes incircle your bows and crossbows, and have them duke it out, but they would take heavy casaulties from trading arrow fire, and the Aiel might not be stupid enough to charge, or be held while flanked. (Also I think a tactic used against the Shaido, if memory serves).

[aleh]

As an addendum to my last message. Personally, I think the Council's Bodyguards should be expert swordsmen/axemen or something like that, after all, the Council is always competing with the King, eh?

The Illian's Assemblage's forces should be a bit like the Genoese sailors, good archers, and half-decent/decent fighters(perhaps a spear, or something). Cause the Assemblage is made up of the richest merchants and most succesfful sea-traders, so like I'd assume archers would be a definite bonus against the river brigands.

If I remember correctly, Ghealdan had good mines and all, and eventually since they'd discover powders and all. Perhaps to make the units more fair in all the nations, give them some sort of Naphta Throwers-type unit?

Oh, and definately give the Taraboners Naphta Throwers and perhaps some sort of canon-type unit, since they have the best(and perhaps biggest) Illuminators chapters.

Also, if I remember well, the Murandians were involved in quite a few border raids/battles/wars with Andor, so perhaps give them a Raiders unit. Light Cavalry, good/great attack, great/irrisistable charge, but they can't do well in a protracted fight as they are more hit-and-run fighters. Also perhaps give them a foot version of that, since Lugard is a heavy trading center, I'd assume there'd be plenty of bandits around. Lightly armoured-if even that-, but great attack, good charge, SUCK in protracted fights.

Why does Kandor have chariots? If I remember correctly, the only people who should have chariots are the Seanchan, because Tuon's personal banner has a chariot(war-cart) pulled by lions. If even that. Also, give Kandor some sort of Merchant Guard-type unit. They are elite(borderlandsers), but come in very small numbers.

The men of Arad Doman have quite short tempers (poor fellas :D), so perhaps give some of their better unit the 'Impetuous' trait? And what exactly is 'Order of the Council', what council, that of the Merchants? Personally, the Domani reminded me of Hindu people and so on, so perhaps give them scythed chariots.



Also, will the game be on RTW or MTW?

[Andreas]

It is for rome, and as for your points:
Illian will have more then three units, the army lists aren't up to date. I might change some in them later. No throwers, the illuminators are the only ones that can handle it, and they do not fight with it.

There will be no chariots(you realize that you say that only senachan should have them, and then you say AD should?) Anyway, there will be no chariots.

And order os the coucil is the merchants council, yes.

[Barid]

This confused the hell out of me. Like the pirate and the wheel... yarrr! its drivin me nuts! btw, whats the difference ingame between a band and a fist? What will trolloc units be like? Will they be like War Dogs and have trollocs as the bulk rampager with myrddraal hanging back? and why the intermixing? Just some basic questions.

Andreas: Edited Domani army-lists (18-03-2005)

[/font][/color]The Shadow - Shayol Ghul

Myrddraal
Dha'vol Band
Dhai'mon Band
Ko'bal Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dha'vol Fist
Dhai'mon Fist
Ko'bal Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Dha'vol Clan

Myrddraal
Dha'vol Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dha'vol Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Dha'vol

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Ko'bal Clan

Myrddraal
Ko'bal Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Ko'bal Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Ko'bal

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Dhai'mon Clan

Myrddraal
Dhai'mon Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dhai'mon Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Dhai'mon

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

Aiel

Clan Chiefs Guard
Red Shields(Light Infantry)
Thunder Walkers(Heavy Infantry)
Far Dareis Mai(Light Aiel - like scouts)
Stone Dogs(Medium Infantry)
Water Seekers(Light Skirmishers)
True Bloods(Archers)
Brothers of the Eagle(Heavy Skirmishers)
Night Spears(Maybe like Night Raiders with a frighten enemy option?)
Black Eyes(Heavy Archers)
(No idea what to do with the two left...Maybe an elite aiel unit?)
Dawn Runners
Knife Hands

People of the Dragon (These include the Aiel and Tairens in the Rand era)

Asha'man (Mounted & Dismounted)
Wise Ones-(Rand era, never fought before dumai wells)
Legion of the Dragon (Heavy Crossbowmen with good swords fighting skills also)
Band of the Red Hand

If I may be so bold: Your using the Roman "Houses" dynamic here, so why not give the Fantastic 4 the factions? Sammael, Rahvin, Be'lal, and Demandred? Actually, though Rahvin was an adiquate general, he's not top forsaken... Ishy is. Why not make ishies faction number 1? If I may be bolder:

Ishimael Faction a higher number of Channeling Darkfriend options to denote a greater station among the Chosen.
Demandred Faction the bulk of the mounted Darkfriend options, give Sammael a special assassin Character (Though, I'm pretty sure that was labled "not possible")
Be'lal Faction "twisted" units. I'm thinking simply adding some black to Tear, Illian and Mayener elite units (asside from tear, with nothing but arbitrary reasons)
Sammael: Better close combat units, but fewer of them. Maybe an elite unit. Arbitrary idea that.

On Cavalry: Robert Jordan's cavalry all sound like they are cut from the same mold real cavalry were: Lance first, Sword once it breaks... the logic is simple, swords have a hard time reaching men affoot, and without great aim or a lucky hit, nearly worthless against a dehorsed armored foe, thus the lance gave a thrusting ability to penetrate the armor, as well as impact value on the charge.

Band of the Red Hand: I know, I know... thou shalt not trust in the Guide to WOT... but damnit, it says Mat wants more archers... 4-1 or 3-1!

[Andreas]

The band has it's own topic, and the player will decide how many archers he have... The roman houses are cut away now, we will not use that line-up, only one sahdow faction, mainly trollocs.

And most of his cavalry are mounted archers, really.

[SMZ]

One addendum to that - It seems like a LOT of the cavalry shown so far has been very well armed with a variety of weapons. Typically mounted soldiers on about 2/3 of the continent seem to carry a horsebow, a lance and a sword. Depending on the situation they drop the lance or leave the bow cased.

Exceptions to this appear to be the easten nations. Illian, Tear, Cairhein, Andor and Mayene appear to come more from the school of thought about the glory of the charge. Murandy, Altara, Gheldean, Amadicia appear to be in between... some of them are strictly lancers... some lancers/horsebows. Tarabon, Domani, Borderlanders and Seanchan are almost all equipped with both lance and bow. That's my general feel at least...

[cdaulepp]

I understand why Mat wants more archers, especially crossbowmen. I was playing Saturday and I set up my army across a bridge and I gave the enemy 3 times my number of units. I set up a defensive posture with 5 units of spearmen in the front of my army to protect my archers. All of the other units in my army were archers. It's amazing what happens when you have 15 units of 80 archers each firing at a unit as it tries to cross a bridge. After one volley from all 15 units, the unit crossing the bridge routed. The only units of the enemy able to cross the bridge before routing were horsemen (because of their speed) but they ran into my spears. If they tried to go around my spears, they were routing too by the time they took the second volley from all 15 units of archers.

I did see one problem though. I had 15 units with 80 archers each, so that's 1200 arrows flying for each volley loosed by my archers. The enemy units usually had around 80 men to start with, but my 1200 arrows only killed 40-50 men. It was enough to make them route, but it left me thinking that in real life, 1200 arrows fired at 80 men should have killed all of them. That's 15 arrows per enemy soldier. I should be able to kill more than 40-50 men per volley when I'm shooting 1200 arrows. So I think archers should have their attack increased and their accuracy increased.

If not all archer attacks increased, then at least the band of the red hand's archers to represent their faster firinig capability. Maybe leave normal archer units as is, but increase the Band's to do a lot more damage or something.

Just a thought.

[SMZ]

I agree with that whole-heartedly. The numbers associated with missile troups needs to change substantially. In WoT, we often see missile units slaughtering enemies to the man when they are positioned properly. In RTW, that doesn't happen.

We'll need to do some serious overhaul on this if we can. We get some good info from Mat's ambushes on exactly how effective the crossbowmen and horse archers are at varying ranges.

Ideally, IMO, archers will be much more deadly than they are currently, but conversely be much worse at hand to hand combat. Even elite type units should have trouble switching from their missile weapon to thier melee weapon; that way archers will be countered the way they are in WoT. Namely, closing with them as quickly as possible. Nobody even contemplates standing still and waiting for them to exhaust their arrows in WoT... in RTW however, that's a viable strategy... that has to change.

[cdaulepp]

I'm glad we agree SMZ.

I'd like to perhaps stop a debate before it begins. Before people start saying that archers would become too tough, remember that archers are only good in clear open areas with a clear sight of view of their enemy. Rain, snow, dust, etc. should be major factors in stopping archers, as well as hills, forests, etc.

So making archers more powerful doesn't ruin game balance.