Swords n' Sandals

[Al Khalifah]

I was just wondering the other day, what it is about Swords n' Sandals films that people just can't get enough of. I mean regardless of how bad they are, people still want to go watch more and when they're good they're absolute box office gold.
This isn't a criticism of the viewing public in general because I too am a victim of it. I've seen Troy far too many times, despite the fact it is a rather hollow film and as for Gladiator or Ben Hur...

Kingdom of Heaven, while not actually a true classical era film still feels like an S&S and in many ways so does El Cid.

[Fragony]

Lots of epic stuff, and always an opening for some romance. It is sure to make mucho $$$. And geez was Troy HORRIBLE, but at least they had the courtesy to assume that we know about the Atilla and his weakness.

[zelda12]

Bah, its all escapism, theres so much bloodshed now that people don't feel like watching war movies about anything with guns as its too close to home and generally a lot more messy. So they go back a couple of hundred years to when everyone was noble and swords just had to slide along someones back or front to kill them instantly. Blah and there's all that sickly ancient Romance. Give me a good Napoleonic flic any day.

[Franconicus]

Al Khalifah,

I think there are two reasons.
1. Life is simple. The good ones are really good and the bad ones really ugly. And the good ones are strong! Perfect life.
2. Everybody wants to be that way. You always know what is right and if s.th. is wrong - just beat. Or at least boys want to be that way

[Steppe Merc]

I like Kingdom of Heaven... thought it was better than most of similar movies.
I like them because they're a lot more interesting to me than guns, cause I like the history of that time better. Not that history has much to do with most of them...

[Al Khalifah]

I think my attraction to them comes from the strength of the major characters and the reasons they're doing what they're doing. There's just not as many ridiculous cliches either.

Achillies in Troy is a brilliant character and though Brad Pitt doesn't really convey it, his message is quite profound. He realises that like every man he is only mortal and that when he dies, his life will be forgotton, where as if he makes a name for himself he will be remembered for millenia after his death. Unfortunately the only thing he is good at is fighting and so that is how he chooses to make his name. The Greek's didn't really think there was anything terribly wrong with this, with a dim prospect of afterlife for most such people were even idolised. I don't find Achillies to be what movie critics call an 'Anti-hero' except for his disrespect for Hector's body after their duel.
If you tried to put a character like this in a modern movie, they could only play the psycotic terrorist type character because while killing someone (or several people) with a sword is honorable - shooting someone makes you a bad person. Anyone who shoots innocent or even guilty people is an 'anti-hero' in a movie with guns (although any character with a more than 1 dimensional pesonality is often called this too), but hacking appart with swords is all fair game if it achieves your objectives.

[Idomeneas]

I think my attraction to them comes from the strength of the major characters and the reasons they're doing what they're doing. There's just not as many ridiculous cliches either.

Achillies in Troy is a brilliant character and though Brad Pitt doesn't really convey it, his message is quite profound. He realises that like every man he is only mortal and that when he dies, his life will be forgotton, where as if he makes a name for himself he will be remembered for millenia after his death. Unfortunately the only thing he is good at is fighting and so that is how he chooses to make his name. The Greek's didn't really think there was anything terribly wrong with this, with a dim prospect of afterlife for most such people were even idolised. I don't find Achillies to be what movie critics call an 'Anti-hero' except for his disrespect for Hector's body after their duel.
If you tried to put a character like this in a modern movie, they could only play the psycotic terrorist type character because while killing someone (or several people) with a sword is honorable - shooting someone makes you a bad person. Anyone who shoots innocent or even guilty people is an 'anti-hero' in a movie with guns (although any character with a more than 1 dimensional pesonality is often called this too), but hacking appart with swords is all fair game if it achieves your objectives.

The reason i enjoy and many others S&S is cause these movies depict a very interesting era. Its idolized period through history and classic studies so its always appealing to people. I like especially the details. For example in Gladiator i like to see ordinary people on the street their clothes, behaviour, the buildings comming to life. Its very detailed from that aspect. Also im glad to notice that today S&S movies are more bound to history and archeological facts.

Now about Troy. Its the biggest disappointment for me. It wasnt a movie but a rape of greek epic mythology and literature. Who in hell they think they are those chewing gum hollywood clowns that they think they can take a brilliant even for today standards tale, with powerfull characters, that was used as school book in all the ancient world and turn it to a 3class Xena warrior princess shit.

To begin with what? the imaginary costumes? The sea side sparta? The Assyrian buildings? the fact that Achilles is presented more than less as a leader of bikers? That the siege looks as if its a matter of days? That Menelaus dies in the most rediculus way? That Aenias is just a passing by boy who is entrusted with the sword of Troy(excuse me?) when Paris is getting away with the club-bimbo looking Helen? That Briseis kills Agamemnon ? That Achilles is in the trojan horse(he took vancantions from Hades) ?

And thats just the big ones. I leave out the idiotic death of Patroclus, the dancing duels, the bad cgi and the worst ever Peter O' Tool performance.

Those guys should be publicly flogged for desacreding a universal ageless masterpiece. I recomend to anyone who hasnt read it to do it.

[Beirut]

I know what you mean. It's just like Leather & Lingerie. I just can't seem to get enough of those flics.

[Byzantine Prince]

I was just wondering the other day, what it is about Swords n' Sandals films that people just can't get enough of. I mean regardless of how bad they are, people still want to go watch more and when they're good they're absolute box office gold.
This isn't a criticism of the viewing public in general because I too am a victim of it. I've seen Troy far too many times, despite the fact it is a rather hollow film and as for Gladiator or Ben Hur...

Kingdom of Heaven, while not actually a true classical era film still feels like an S&S and in many ways so does El Cid.

People don't really decide nor do they care to be honest. This is a wave started(or shall I say restarted) by Gladiator and the producers with their genious heads figured "hey I made lot's of money with this let's do it again, and then again, HOHOHOHAHAHSAdafjdskaf"!

The people of course are sheep, "ooh a gesus movie, I gotta see it, ooh a troy movie it's gotta be good!". They don't go "oh who this director and what is his history and what is the chance this is a good movie before I see it?"

The problem I have isn't the swords and sandals per se, it's the shitty scripts and directors that piss me off. I wish Godard would take on a film like the Iliad, show them what it's all about! Don't whine at me about how Ridley is a good directos because I'll puke. Now that I think about it Godard shouldn't do an epic either, epics suck! I dont' think it's possible not to go overboard with a big budget epic.

I wish they would make a small budget swords and sandals film like Fellini did with Satyricon. That would be the coolest!

[bmolsson]

People are getting more kinky these days. Must be all this crappy Viagra spam.....

[Al Khalifah]

Having studied the Iliad and Odyssey I agree that Troy was well wide of the mark in terms of accuracy to Homer's books and to actual Greek values or architecture/geography. However, I don't think the Iliad would have made a good Hollywood film because its too long and doesn't give sufficient closure at the end. Having Briseis kill Agamemnon was the only way to give the audience the satisfaction required in seeing him get his commupance without having to extend the film to events back in Greece. By trying to scale down the time frame and give more definate results, they were trying to give something thats palpable to the masses who think that Ajax is just a floor cleaning product and Paris is just the capital of France.
The sort of film that would be much better off on a smaller budget, with lower demands for the the kind of mass market appeal that would bring in sufficient revenue to recollect the cost of producing it. Its the same old Hollywood problem, the more you spend on a film, the more people it has to appeal to, so the more dumbed down it has to be.

As bad as Troy is though, its not a scratch on The Talisman of Troy by Valerio Massimo Manfredi. Unlike the rest of his work, this book reads like it was written by someone without a clue and the ending is the most unbelievably non-Greek ending possible. I just couldn't believe I'd wasted time reading the book after it.

[Blodrast]

Don't forget that it's also a lot about publicity. "Bob, let's put $200 M in marketing and ads, we'll get it back after the first weekend anyway"...
See ads about movie X every single day, on TV, on buses, on boards, on the net, in your yahoo/msn/gmail/whatever, on forums (sic!), etc, etc... sure, you go see it yourself eventually. After all, it can't be that bad if it's _everywhere_, right ?
Wrong, of course (with plenty proof).

Throw in "epic battle", or "confrontations of epic proportions", and half the male population's eyes glaze over. Yeah, it happens to me too, sure - I'm crazy about that too. Often I've paid money just to go watch a movie that barely had a few scenes that I actually enjoyed, but often not even that...

Oh well. That's the kind of society we live in

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And thats just the big ones. I leave out the idiotic death of Patroclus, the dancing duels, the bad cgi and the worst ever Peter O' Tool performance.

The biggest one is that now no one will make a true film about Troy in my lifetime at least. I remember back int the early 60s in JR High seeing a black and white verdsion of the Illiad. It had all the characters and followed the book pretty well. We saw this film in English class and it took about a week to watch. I wonder if its available anywhere.

[Steppe Merc]

I wish they would make a small budget swords and sandals film like Fellini did with Satyricon. That would be the coolest!

I would disagree. To make any sort of battle with horses, you need to have at least a decent budget. You need to have all the stuff to simulate dying horses, and you can't flip them on their sides anymore like they used to. So I think that it would be impossible to make a realistic looking battle with a small budget. Oh, and it would probably have about 10 people, so...

[bmolsson]

If you want realism, watch CNN.....