Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 67

Thread: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

  1. #31

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    You ought to read up on some of the things the US military has done during times of war, Goofball.

    You should particularly look at how some of the SS were treated (executed) on the spot. This was not during a battle, but after they had surrendered. They were considered radicals, much like AQ today eh?

    Japanese troops often suffered the same fate. There was nothing wrong with this - it was war.

    You are creating precedents that dont exist Goofball. I submit to you that the US military only tries people during a wartime situation when it is convenient to do so AND has become much more conscious of the rights of detainees.

  2. #32
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,902

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Applying wartime principles on a low-intense war (as I assume you point at the war on terror) were the enemy likes to hide, is problematic to say the least. I think I missed the introducing of the terrorist uniform.

    Besides I'm not sure how many people that would agree on your view about this being a full-scale war (still low-intence though).
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  3. #33
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    I think I missed the introducing of the terrorist uniform.
    You may have a point about members of Al Qaeda at Guantanamo, but what about the Taleban? They do not have to wear a uniform to qualify for the protections of the Geneva Conventions, because they are not a militia operating independently of the governement; they were actually the soldiers of a legitimate government. The issue is clarified here:

    http://hrw.org/press/2002/01/us01280...tm#taliban_pow

    The Taleban at Guanatanamo are most certainly protected by the Geneva Conventions, and just as certainly the US government is ignoring these.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  4. #34
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Anyone care to respond to the information I posted about the lack of lawyers or judges in Guantanamo? Even the Nazi partisans the allies captured after WWII were given lawyers and a day in court before judges.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  5. #35
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    Anyone care to respond to the information I posted about the lack of lawyers or judges in Guantanamo? Even the Nazi partisans the allies captured after WWII were given lawyers and a day in court before judges.
    I can only comment from what I know Hurin - and that is that the Military Justice system does allow for non-lawyers to represent both sides and for a military officer to sit as the judge in the proceedings. However if the allegations that you stated are true Hurin government first gave them trained military lawyers and military judges and then fired them when these same appointed military lawyers and judges pointed out the errors in the system that was being developed - then a miscarriage of justice has been done in providing a fair hearing. THe compentent I won't say - because of my own personal experiences in dealing in the Courts Martial process - ie I got to sit as a judge on two Courts Martials - and I never went to law school. So the compentent part still seems fair to me because of my own experience. But to fire trained lawyers and judges does smack of unfair.

    Since I am at work - with limited ability to go back and research - I can not comment futher until much latter.

    However I will say Panzer is wrong about WW2. The documented cases of Nazi's that were shot after they surrendered was done as an act of relation because Nazi shootings of GI's.

    And in the Japanese campaign - the Japanese rarely surrendered - most often because they refused to - but sometimes because they were never given the chance to. That is a far cry from what Panzer is stating.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  6. #36
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    You may have a point about members of Al Qaeda at Guantanamo, but what about the Taleban? They do not have to wear a uniform to qualify for the protections of the Geneva Conventions, because they are not a militia operating independently of the governement; they were actually the soldiers of a legitimate government. The issue is clarified here:

    http://hrw.org/press/2002/01/us01280...tm#taliban_pow

    The Taleban at Guanatanamo are most certainly protected by the Geneva Conventions, and just as certainly the US government is ignoring these.
    Good you see the point - one that I have stated over and over again. And yes the Taliban Militiamen should be treated under the conditions of the Geneva Convention because they are indeed a recongized and organized military force for their nation.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  7. #37
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    You ought to read up on some of the things the US military has done during times of war, Goofball.

    You should particularly look at how some of the SS were treated (executed) on the spot. This was not during a battle, but after they had surrendered. They were considered radicals, much like AQ today eh?

    Japanese troops often suffered the same fate. There was nothing wrong with this - it was war.

    You are creating precedents that dont exist Goofball. I submit to you that the US military only tries people during a wartime situation when it is convenient to do so AND has become much more conscious of the rights of detainees.
    Sorry, but "Well, we have done much worse before" is simply not a valid defence.

    Just because U.S. troops acted in a criminal manner before does not excuse them doing so again.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  8. #38

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    However I will say Panzer is wrong about WW2. The documented cases of Nazi's that were shot after they surrendered was done as an act of relation because Nazi shootings of GI's.

    Wrong.. those are not the killings I am talking about. Much has come to light about exactly how Germans were treated by the allies, including starvation, executions and such.

    Ike hated Germans, as evidenced by this order:

    “…Under no circumstances may food supplies be assembled among the local inhabitants in order to deliver them to prisoners of war. Those who violate this command and nevertheless try to circumvent this blockade to allow something to come to the prisoners place themselves in danger of being shot…”(

    Also see this:

    "Starting in April 1945, the United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything in American history . . . an enormous war crime."

    -- Col. Ernest F. Fisher, PhD Lt.
    101 st Airborne Division, Senior Historian, United States Army



    As for the Japanese - many wounded were shot for fear of having hidden grenades or because the US soldiers wanted their fillings. This is well documented Redleg.

    Let me stress there was nothing wrong with any of that... Thats the price of war.


    Sorry, but "Well, we have done much worse before" is simply not a valid defence.

    A valid defence for whom? The United States does not need its actions approved by you or any of your comrades.

  9. #39
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in the cloud.
    Posts
    9,007

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    You may have a point about members of Al Qaeda at Guantanamo, but what about the Taleban? They do not have to wear a uniform to qualify for the protections of the Geneva Conventions, because they are not a militia operating independently of the governement; they were actually the soldiers of a legitimate government. The issue is clarified here:

    http://hrw.org/press/2002/01/us01280...tm#taliban_pow

    The Taleban at Guanatanamo are most certainly protected by the Geneva Conventions, and just as certainly the US government is ignoring these.
    Legitimate government or not- they still have no protections under the Geneva conventions. The Taliban was not a signatory to it and a government must be such to be entitled to protection under it. Really, why are we hashing this out again? The Conventions have been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

    Those guys you link certainly do have an interesting take on the Conventions though. That Taliban soldiers didn't need to wear uniforms under Geneva? That's a new one. They take so many quotes out of context and fill in the blanks on their own... it's impossible to tell anything from their Q&A.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 05-10-2005 at 23:59.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  10. #40
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    However I will say Panzer is wrong about WW2. The documented cases of Nazi's that were shot after they surrendered was done as an act of relation because Nazi shootings of GI's.

    Wrong.. those are not the killings I am talking about. Much has come to light about exactly how Germans were treated by the allies, including starvation, executions and such.
    Try again Panzer - those are all undocumented - which means individual soldiers acted out of their own anger - not an official order. There is a big difference.


    Ike hated Germans, as evidenced by this order:

    “…Under no circumstances may food supplies be assembled among the local inhabitants in order to deliver them to prisoners of war. Those who violate this command and nevertheless try to circumvent this blockade to allow something to come to the prisoners place themselves in danger of being shot…”(

    Also see this:

    "Starting in April 1945, the United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything in American history . . . an enormous war crime."

    -- Col. Ernest F. Fisher, PhD Lt.
    101 st Airborne Division, Senior Historian, United States Army
    Once again a casual annihilation of German men of over 1 million would of been plastered all over the media by now - show evidence other then one historian before I believe that there was a systemic crime committed by the United States Army.


    As for the Japanese - many wounded were shot for fear of having hidden grenades or because the US soldiers wanted their fillings. This is well documented Redleg.
    Again individual soldiers committing criminal acts - not official Military policy.
    Japanese soldiers were know to fake death to kill Americans - once again similiar to the marine that just recently made the news. Killing the enemy on the battlefield because you are not sure if he intends to continue fighting is not a war crime and is an act of war. Perfectly acceptable - killing the enemy to get his gold filings is looting and is a criminal act punishable by death in a summary courts martial.

    If you can not tell the difference - then its a good thing you can not serve in the Military.

    Let me stress there was nothing wrong with any of that... Thats the price of war.
    Criminal acts during war - are still criminal acts. Killing one's enemy on the battlefield in a brutal fashion during the fighting is acceptable because that is the nature of war. Shooting a prisoner that has already surrendered is a war crime if it was done delibrate. Such as the two documented cases of American GI's shooting Nazi's that surrendered.


    Sorry, but "Well, we have done much worse before" is simply not a valid defence.

    A valid defence for whom? The United States does not need its actions approved by you or any of your comrades.
    However the United States Government needs its actions approved by the citizens of our country. I for one am against all criminal behavior in war - hiding it behind that war is a dirty and rough business does not mean it should not be punished when discovered. The military code of conduct that I served under - does not promote the ideological views that you are presenting here.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  11. #41
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    PJ:

    I just don't get the argument here. You cite horrific practices that your own author describes as an 'enormous war crime' to say that these are not war crimes. The fact that some people got away with them doesn't mean they weren't crimes. No one in the US military today would accept such measures as standard practice.

    Xiahou:

    If you're going to say that quotes were taken out of context and also that the Taleban needed uniforms, then please cite what specific sections of the Geneva Conventions you feel are relevant. Because as it stands, there is no basis for denying the Taliban the protections of the Geneva Conventions.
    Last edited by Hurin_Rules; 05-11-2005 at 00:22.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  12. #42
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Those guys you link certainly do have an interesting take on the Conventions though. That Taliban soldiers didn't need to wear uniforms under Geneva? That's a new one. They take so many quotes out of context and fill in the blanks on their own... it's impossible to tell anything from their Q&A.

    The rules of war - which govern what consitutes a legal combatant - see the Hague Treaty - states that an organized militia with a recongized chain of command, fighting as an organized body will be recongized as combatants wether they are in uniform or not. Futhermore it clearly states that citizens of a nation in spontaous uprising to an armed invasion will also be accorded the status of combatants.

    IE the Taliban Militia are indeed entitled to some protections of the Geneva Convention because the United States is a signatory agency in both the Hague and the 2nd Protocals of the Geneva Convention - which cover this particular area.

    However terrorists and criminals are a different matter enterily. The rules clearly state that summary judgements could have been executed on these individuals when they are captured on the battlefield committing illegal acts.

    I got absolutely no remorse concerning any of the alleged terrorists - but the Taliban Militia should have been accorded fair hearings to determine their status.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  13. #43
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    If you go back and review the available threads you will see that I am a big supporter of the Invasion of Iraq and the Removal of the Taliban from Afganstan to capture the Terrorist elements that were headquartered and given sanctury in that nation.

    I will argue that the justification for going into Afganstan was valid - I will even argue that keeping the Terrorists and unkowns captured in Afganstan and Iraq in GITMO is justified - because of the terms used in the Geneva and Hague Treaty allows some individuals to be outside of the rules of war - and fall into extra-legal catergories (not sure of the word use here) however Hurin has presented legimate points concerning the treatment of Taliban Militia soldiers and individuals sent by other nations to GITMO via the United States Government. These concerns presented by him and backed up with legimate articles from multiple sources - should be considered and not ignored in the fashion that some would like to do.

    The nature of a democracy and the concept of free speech is to admit and acknowledge when the other side has a legimate and very valid point. Hurin and others have done this. To defend our actions by pointing out bad behavior from the past that was forgiven or ignored - does not make the point Hurin has made invalid - nor does it grant creditablity to my nations actions.

    Will I advocate the dismantling of GITMO and the fair hearings of everyone in the faciality - No. However I will state that certain actions of the current adminstration are questionable in the execution of policy in that regard. I will advocate that any Taliban Militiaman that was captured in Afganstan and sent to GITMO should have been initially treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention and given the military tribunal that is required before sending a legimate combatant into such a faciality as GITMO. That any citizen sent to GITMO by any nation without a fair hearing has had their rights violated.

    I have absolutely no problem with dangerous criminals caught in the act (ie on the battlefield doing criminal acts. ie Terrorists from other nations caught in these circumstances) because under the Hague Treaty all that is required for individuals caught in such a manner is a summary trail and execution on the spot.

    However I also realize that by doing so - I am tolerating a miscarriage of the rights that criminals should have.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  14. #44

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Try again Panzer - those are all undocumented - which means individual soldiers acted out of their own anger - not an official order. There is a big difference.

    The executions were ordered by officers, the starvation came straight from the top.

    Once again a casual annihilation of German men of over 1 million would of been plastered all over the media by now - show evidence other then one historian before I believe that there was a systemic crime committed by the United States Army.

    If you choose not to believe it, then thats your choice. There have been grumblings about this for years and recently a lot more has come out about it including a book.

    Again individual soldiers committing criminal acts - not official Military policy.


    It was ignored by the US military. Is that not a passive form of acceptance?

    If you can not tell the difference - then its a good thing you can not serve in the Military.

    Cheap shot - nice.

    However the United States Government needs its actions approved by the citizens of our country. I for one am against all criminal behavior in war - hiding it behind that war is a dirty and rough business does not mean it should not be punished when discovered. The military code of conduct that I served under - does not promote the ideological views that you are presenting here.

    Of course the US military doesnt promote such things. We rely on the CIA and other covert agencies to do our dirty work. I as a citizen fully support doing whatever is neccesary, dirty or clean, to protect America.

    I just don't get the argument here. You cite horrific practices that your own author describes as an 'enormous war crime' to say that these are not war crimes. The fact that some people got away with them doesn't mean they weren't crimes. No one in the US military today would accept such measures as standard practice.

    You made the argument yourself...

    No one in the US military today would accept such measures as standard practice.

    Many on the left are alleging that America would be betraying its values by beating some AQ guy, but in reality America has never been more sensitive to the rights and lives of its enemies.


    I really shouldnt have brought up the US starvation camps as its obviously a touchy subject. I do believe that it happened however, but in my defense of America i seem to have brought, what i thought were already known, facts into the discussion that dont reflect well on the US. Call me dense..

  15. #45
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Try again Panzer - those are all undocumented - which means individual soldiers acted out of their own anger - not an official order. There is a big difference.

    The executions were ordered by officers, the starvation came straight from the top.
    Your going to have to provide evidence that such orders were given. While I have studied most aspects of World War 2 from the American viewpoint - I have never even stumbled upon a hint of the allegation you are making here.

    Once again a casual annihilation of German men of over 1 million would of been plastered all over the media by now - show evidence other then one historian before I believe that there was a systemic crime committed by the United States Army.

    If you choose not to believe it, then thats your choice. There have been grumblings about this for years and recently a lot more has come out about it including a book.
    Once again its an allegation you have made - where the evidence I have seen from past studies have never indicated any such act. Saying it is one thing - provide the documents or links - ie the name of the book.

    Again individual soldiers committing criminal acts - not official Military policy.


    It was ignored by the US military. Is that not a passive form of acceptance?
    Actually it was not as ignored as you might think - several soldiers were arrested and convicted during the war for such activities.

    If you can not tell the difference - then its a good thing you can not serve in the Military.

    Cheap shot - nice.
    Yes it was - and you deserved it for making allegations without supporting evidence.

    However the United States Government needs its actions approved by the citizens of our country. I for one am against all criminal behavior in war - hiding it behind that war is a dirty and rough business does not mean it should not be punished when discovered. The military code of conduct that I served under - does not promote the ideological views that you are presenting here.

    Of course the US military doesnt promote such things. We rely on the CIA and other covert agencies to do our dirty work. I as a citizen fully support doing whatever is neccesary, dirty or clean, to protect America.
    Once again we have tried that policy in several locations in the world - it failed. Why should we repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Its always better to be above board - even if you are playing rough - no need to have quasi-outfits doing illegal things in our name.

    I just don't get the argument here. You cite horrific practices that your own author describes as an 'enormous war crime' to say that these are not war crimes. The fact that some people got away with them doesn't mean they weren't crimes. No one in the US military today would accept such measures as standard practice.

    You made the argument yourself...
    Different individual - not my point.

    No one in the US military today would accept such measures as standard practice.

    Many on the left are alleging that America would be betraying its values by beating some AQ guy, but in reality America has never been more sensitive to the rights and lives of its enemies.
    And when they get carried away with their allegations without evidence as you have done here - I also counter their arguement.

    I really shouldnt have brought up the US starvation camps as its obviously a touchy subject. I do believe that it happened however, but in my defense of America i seem to have brought, what i thought were already known, facts into the discussion that dont reflect well on the US. Call me dense..
    Bring it up by all means - but provide supporting documentation and links from eyewitness to back up the allegation. A quote from a military historian is good - but its questionable as factual when there is no other supporting evidence. Considering the amount of reading I have done on American Warfare - if this was anything less then an allegation I would of seen at least a hint of such an activity - and frankly its either not completely true or was buried deep into the military records. But I would not buy such a story from the far left without futher evidence - nor will I buy into such a story off of one quote - from a military historian I have never read of before.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  16. #46

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Ok i feel like a jackass bringing something up like that about America in defense of America.

    I do not want to argue with you over this because frankly it doesnt feel right being on this side of the argument. I will not continue to disparage the US.

    But so you dont think im just bullshitting for some reason, the name of the book is Other Losses by James Bacque.

  17. #47
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Check this out-- I thought it was ironic given our discussion of uniforms:

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. troops battling insurgents near Iraq's border with Syria have encountered uniformed fighters whose gear may indicate a better-trained opposition than that found in other areas, a U.S. general said Tuesday.

    Lt. Gen. James Conway, operations director for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said some of the fighters were said to be wearing protective vests.

    The American offensive began over the weekend against insurgents thought to be taking refuge and planning attacks in towns along the porous border region.

    By Monday, the push had left at least 100 insurgents and three Marines dead, the U.S. military said.

    On Tuesday, Raja Nawaf Farhan al-Mahalawi, the governor of Anbar province, was kidnapped by people demanding U.S. forces cease operations in the area, Anbar tribal sources said.

    "There are reports that these people are in uniforms, in some cases are wearing protective vests, and there's some suspicion that their training exceeds that of what we have seen with other engagements further east," Conway said.

    When asked further about the significance of the uniforms, Conway downplayed it, telling reporters at a Pentagon briefing that it was not the first time U.S. troops have seen uniformed insurgents.

    "We have seen it in some instances," Conway said. "It's spotty."

    "Let me make sure it's understood that this is not a single entity that is all in the same uniform," he said. "We're seeing some uniforms on some of the fighters."

    When pressed, the general said the insurgents would not have additional legal rights under the Geneva Conventions if captured.

    "It is not an organized army per se," Conway said.

    "What I expressed to you was one line out of one report that talked about some insurgents wearing uniforms," he said.

    Last month, insurgents dressed in Iraqi military uniforms killed an Iraqi general, Lt. Gen. Adnan Qaragholi, and his son at the general's home in southern Baghdad. (Full story)
    More here:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/me...ain/index.html
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  18. #48
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Ok i feel like a jackass bringing something up like that about America in defense of America.

    I do not want to argue with you over this because frankly it doesnt feel right being on this side of the argument. I will not continue to disparage the US.

    But so you dont think im just bullshitting for some reason, the name of the book is Other Losses by James Bacque.
    That is usually the case when attempting to justify bad behavior by using other bad behavior. It always comes out wrong in the end.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  19. #49
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    U.S. troops battling insurgents near Iraq's border with Syria have encountered uniformed fighters whose gear may indicate a better-trained opposition than that found in other areas, a U.S. general said Tuesday.
    This isnt what the genva convention refers to when they say uniforms. These people would be treated the same as fighters with no uniforms. It has to be a recognised uniform of a legitimate organization. These guys are foriegn fighters equipped by Iran or Syria most likely.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  20. #50
    Member Member Efrem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    414

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    If he had no control then he cannot possable have broken the rules of his religion.

    He is probably just some sick twisted f*ck that beleives all women should be covered from head to toe.

    Fundamentalism shoudl be challenged on all levels.
    Viva La Rasa!!!

  21. #51
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrem
    Fundamentalism shoudl be challenged on all levels.
    Oh, I don't know about that. I find that the best thing for me to do when my golf handicap starts to creep up is to get back to basics and focus on the fundamentals.

    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  22. #52
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Oh, I don't know about that. I find that the best thing for me to do when my golf handicap starts to creep up is to get back to basics and focus on the fundamentals.
    In other words your fundamentaly challegened
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  23. #53
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    In other words your fundamentaly challegened
    Unfortunately, you don't know how right you are, based on the abysmal results of my most recent round...

    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  24. #54
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Here we see that people are literally dying now over this scandal-- and America is suffering because of it:

    Afghans killed in anti-U.S. riots
    Wednesday, May 11, 2005 Posted: 1551 GMT (2351 HKT)
    KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- At least four people have been killed and 70 injured in violent protests in Jalalabad over reports U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base desecrated copies of the Quran during questioning of prisoners held there.

    The trouble started as thousands of demonstrators marched Wednesday through the streets of Jalalabad, in the eastern part of the country, officials and eyewitnesses said.

    Afghan's interior ministry reported police fired at the crowds when they began to attack government buildings.

    A witness told CNN that police as well as U.S. troops fired into the air to keep the crowds under control.

    Thirteen people were arrested, the interior ministry said.

    A group of protesters attacked the governor's house and the Pakistani consulate in Jalalabad, according to a Pakistani foreign ministry official, but no one was injured.

    An Afghan official in Jalalabad said the crowd also attacked U.S. Army vehicles, and U.S. soldiers fired into the air before leaving the area.

    Rallies were also held in several cities in neighboring Pakistan, where the religious party alliance MMA announced plans to mount a countrywide protest against the United States Friday.

    The country's national assembly passed a resolution demanding the U.S. government investigate the incident and punish anyone found to be responsible.

    The U.S. State Department announced Tuesday the Pentagon would investigate the allegations, which were first reported in Newsweek magazine.

    The magazine quoted sources as saying investigators looking into abuses at the military prison in Cuba found interrogators "had placed Qurans on toilets, and in at least one case flushed a holy book down the toilet."

    The State Department said Pakistan, a key Muslim ally in the war against terrorism, "expressed its serious concern to senior officials" at the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad.

    "The alleged desecration, if it occurred, would be deplorable and completely out of keeping with our deeply held values of religious freedom and tolerance," the State Department said in a written answer to a question posed at Tuesday's press briefing.

    "Desecration of the Holy Quran is a reprehensible act that would not be sanctioned by the United States for any purpose."

    A statement issued by the Pakistani foreign ministry Tuesday said: "U.S. officials have stated that the alleged perpetrators of the reported desecration would be held accountable after the matter had been appropriately investigated and responsibility is established."

    CNN State Department Producer Elise Labott contributed to this report.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/as...est/index.html
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  25. #55
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Wow I was just looking at the same article and was going to post it. Did you notice it was started by an ubsubstaniated report in Newsweek. Its just those who oppose democracy trying to make a stink.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  26. #56
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Wow I was just looking at the same article and was going to post it. Did you notice it was started by an ubsubstaniated report in Newsweek. Its just those who oppose democracy trying to make a stink.
    Actually, Gawain, if you note, it was the same article that started this thread: the 'unsubstantiated report' was the book by the former interogator who worked at Guantanamo. I would hesitate to dismiss a former US soldier as a man who 'opposes democracy' and was just 'trying to make a stink'.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  27. #57
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    . I would hesitate to dismiss a former US soldier as a man who 'opposes democracy' and was just 'trying to make a stink'.
    Im not reffering to him but the hoodlums who rioted.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  28. #58
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    3,029

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Well, it seems like everyone is out of the closet by now. The "war on terror" is out in the open. There are no rules, plain and simple. If this is good or bad is another story.
    I for one feel that the west is losing to the terrorist the moment we have to abuse any agreed laws and rules, regardless if they are international or national. We are just better than that in my opinion.....

  29. #59
    Member Member Efrem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    414

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    If we truly start doing to right thing and realise that they will follow no rules and then untie our soldiers hands so to speak. Then this thing would be over in no time.
    Viva La Rasa!!!

  30. #60
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,677

    Default Re: Former interogator at Guantanamo denounces practices used there

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrem
    If we truly start doing to right thing and realise that they will follow no rules and then untie our soldiers hands so to speak. Then this thing would be over in no time.
    Then AQ wins by taking down Western Civilisation.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO