Germans - or - Austrians

[Stefan the Berserker]

Some might find that Question laughtable, but it is necessary:

Are the Austrians part of the German People, in cultural viewpoint, or are they not?

However the thing should be clear, some Austrians are very militant in their viewpoint that they have an own Nationality which is fully indepandant from the German Nationality and Culture.

However for those who are not so well-informed about the Matter: Austria is that small german-speaking Country in the east of Switzerland and South of Germany where Adolf Hitler was born (just to mention it).

And some hitorical reminders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Confederation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grossdeutschland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D6sterreich

So yet again the Question: Are the Austrians of German Nationality or are they some particular diffrent people?

I think a neutral foreign Viewpoint is needed, since I think you have a diffrent eye for it.

* With German I mean the Nationality and Culture, they're of course not Citizens of the State "Federal Republic of Germany".

BTW: Moderators please add a poll with YES or NO, since this bloody Browser failed in it.

[A.Saturnus]

There is nothing in nationality that extents past being a citizen, so Austrians have obviously their own nationality. Wether thier culture is different is nothing, hardly interesting question.

[Stefan the Berserker]

There is nothing in nationality that extents past being a citizen, so Austrians have obviously their own nationality. Wether thier culture is different is nothing, hardly interesting question.

I repeat: The Question is wheter they are a diffrent Culture, which is equal with Nationality, or are the equal to their Northern Relatives.

That Austria is a Nation in means of Gouverment is known.

However I say who claims that the people living in Munich and those living in Salzburg have a completely diffrent Culture is stupid or a Liar.

[IliaDN]

Wel I voted "No" just because of the reason they have different goverments, as for the culture I think they have rather similuar culture maybe with some small differences , because they were nearby regions in one big country for quite a long period (like russians and belorussians).

[GoreBag]

I repeat: The Question is wheter they are a diffrent Culture, which is equal with Nationality, or are the equal to their Northern Relatives.

That Austria is a Nation in means of Gouverment is known.

However I say who claims that the people living in Munich and those living in Salzburg have a completely diffrent Culture is stupid or a Liar.

That's not entirely true. German dialects are so common and different from one another that someone from München might not even be able to comfortably speak with someone from Salzburg.

I'm voting yes. Austria is only separate because of politics.

[Steppe Merc]

Of course their German.

[Byzantine Prince]

They are Germanic but not German per se just like Bavaria considers itself Bavarian first, German later. Remeber that up until 1850 Germany was nothing but a mosaic of little principates and kingdoms. During the unification period the only purely germanic state that slipped through was Austria(or upper reich).

[Nelson]

I’ve always thought of Austrians as being Germanic the way most Canadians and Americans are Anglo.

[LittleGrizzly]

i think of austria as part of germany

[GoreBag]

I’ve always thought of Austrians as being Germanic the way most Canadians and Americans are Anglo.

I resent that...

[Stefan the Berserker]

That's not entirely true. German dialects are so common and different from one another that someone from München might not even be able to comfortably speak with someone from Salzburg.

I'm voting yes. Austria is only separate because of politics.

That thing with the Dialect would also mean that Londerners speaking Chockney-Dialect (I spelled it right?) are not as British as Welsh people.

However thats a diffrent Story.

I’ve always thought of Austrians as being Germanic the way most Canadians and Americans are Anglo.

Most People in the federal Republic of Germany think that Way too, however I think I know the true reason why they so urgently want to be something diffrent:

In 1918 the Socialist Democraths Party of Austria-Hungary, the SDAPÖ, sized power equally how it happened the same time in Germany when the Monarchy collapsed at the End of the Great War. In this stage the Socialdemocraths declared an interrims Gouverment called "Republic of German-Austria" which defined itself part of Germany.

However, the French punched through that with the Peacetreaty of St.Germain (They have chosen a suburb of Paris which has indeed an ironic Name for a peactreaty with Germans) the Entente and the USA abolished the Union with Germany and the State must change its Name into "Republic of Austria".

Austria lived the same Chaos as Germany did in the Weimar Republic, just worse. Beeing smashed from a Grandpower to a Minor Country, having no mentionable Industry but beeing forced to pay reperations. This and the additional fact that Union with Germany was abolished while Czechoslovakia got rule on the Sudetenland made them feel beeing degraded by the Western States, like it happened in Germany just the same way.

In 1933, the same Year as Hitler, the Constitution Crisis in Austria fired when the Parilament was disolved. The Christiansocialist Party under Engelbert Dollfuß esablished a Regime after the fahion of the Italian Facism. In 1938 the NSAPÖ, the Austrian Wing of the Nazis, overthrow them and together with Hitler in Berlin the Union -> "Anschluss" was proclaimed.

When the Allies recreated Austria 1945-55 they did that by the same Idea of 1918: Germany should be not that big.

The Social Democrathic SPÖ was again elected and formed the Gouverment, which had a fully diffrent viewpoint how to continue after the crimes of WW2: They decided that the historical Lesson from WW2 was pacifism and in logical Consequence Self-Isolation. The Neutrality Act was signed about 1955, the Date when it was signed is the National Day of Austria, proclaiming the Country is abolished to join any Militery Alliance nor rise Offensive Forces.

If you follow the politics in Germany in that Stage you should then easly see that this logically lead to a Conflict with Konrad Adenauer and his foreign policy.

While the majority in Austria favored the self-isolation and the renewed abolishment of Union it was only the far-right of the Country which made runs to unite with Germany. Resulting in an assosiation "Deutschnationale" (Unionists) = Nazis and a large steak disagree with the foreignpolicy of Germany.

Kurt Georg Kiesinger increased that thoughts when he came to Power.

Same together with the Theory of "Opferrolle" (Victim's part) where Austria is displayed as a Victim of Hitler's Imperialism and those poor Austrians where forced to fight in the Wehrmacht while of course the majority of the population where Resitancefighters.

I guess now it should be clear why they so agressivly denie to be Germans. However those claims are since Austria joined the NATO (no more Neutrality) and the sweet support for Mr. Haider`s politics by large steaks of the populations simply funny.

[PanzerJaeger]

Yes they are German ethnically and culturally.

[Papewaio]

Define culture.

Is it a common language?
Education?
Monetary system?
Class?
Art?
Science?
Genetics?
Values?
Food?

What variation is allowed before one culture is considered outside the sphere of another before it is different?

What is a multi-culture?

[GoreBag]

That thing with the Dialect would also mean that Londerners speaking Chockney-Dialect (I spelled it right?) are not as British as Welsh people.

However thats a diffrent Story.

Close - Cockney. That's a different case, however, since Londoners, or native ones, are English, and the Welsh are Welsh.

It is indeed a different story, though. I digress.

[bmolsson]

I think that the language are a pretty important chunk that brings people together.......

[PanzerJaeger]

Define culture.

Is it a common language?
Education?
Monetary system?
Class?
Art?
Science?
Genetics?
Values?
Food?

I would say a mixture of all of those. Austria varies a bit.. more like Alabama and Mississippi than German and France though.

[Paul Peru]

If anyone is the German "people", it is the "people" of Germany.
That would make the "people" of Austria the Austrian "people" which, for obvious reasons would have a lot in common with the German "people" of Germany.

[TonkaToys]

Hmmm... are Portugese part of the Spanish people? Are Luxembourg-ians (?) German or Belgian? Are Belgians German? Are Finnish Swedish?
Austria seems Germanic, but also seems different from Germany. Very little in it.

Probably better to say Austrians are Teutonic and Portugese are Latin, etc.

[bmolsson]

Are Finnish Swedish?

Yes, they are, just that we Swedes haven't succeeded to make them understand that yet......

[Paul Peru]

Hmmm... are Portugese part of the Spanish people? Are Luxembourg-ians (?) German or Belgian? Are Belgians German? Are Finnish Swedish?
Austria seems Germanic, but also seems different from Germany. Very little in it.

Probably better to say Austrians are Teutonic and Portugese are Latin, etc.

If Austrians are Germans, then Belgians are Dutch or French, some Finnish are Swedish, but most are far from it, and even the ones who are may have funny accents.
And it's all irrelevant!

[InsaneApache]

I think the Germans are Austrian in ethnicity

[Al Khalifah]

I find the Germans that live in the area near Austria are very similar indeed to the people of Austria. When I crossed the border, the difference in people and culture was very small. Yet, further away there is a definate difference, especially in the Former East Germany and North West.

[Drisos]

Yes, culture, geografic position and language have much similarities!

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Austrians are Germanic, as are Germans and many Poles, along with much of Switzerland and Alcase. They are not German though, they are Austrian. Culture wise, they're similar to Bavarians, but not to Prussians and Saxons. So yes, but no.
Austrians are definatly ethnically germanic, so I'll vote yes, but theyre not Germans.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Also I don't think you can really say Culturally German, because Germany has a bunch of different cultures. For example: You have Bavarians, Saxons, Prussians, Rhinelandians etc. Austria is definatly it's own culture, similar to Bavarians but better* so yeah
*I'm Austrian, Bavarian, and Prussian herataige, so I can say these things. I mostly Austrian though (even beating out the Italian in me)

[A.Saturnus]

I repeat: The Question is wheter they are a diffrent Culture, which is equal with Nationality, or are the equal to their Northern Relatives.

That Austria is a Nation in means of Gouverment is known.

However I say who claims that the people living in Munich and those living in Salzburg have a completely diffrent Culture is stupid or a Liar.

Culture isn't the same as nationality. But you're right, the culture you find in München and that you find in Salzburg are related. Both drink beer half-liter-wize. Which implies that we're both not German

As a compromise, can we agree that Austrians are people?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

As the great Otto von Bismarck said, a Bavarian is half way between an Austrian and a Human being.

He must mean that a bavarian is halfway between a Human being and the uberhuman! Austrians > YOU! lol jk