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Thread: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Hi guys,

    Just flew home from Singapore. LONG, LONG flight (27 hours total travelling time). But, I made it (even if my bag decided to continue it's journey). All I have to say is Bmolsson, you've been holding out on us. The women over in Singapore are luscious (so I'm guessing Indonesia can't be too shabby either). I'm going to send you a digital camera, I want to start seeing 10 posts a day on the Babe Thread. Come on man... share the wealth! Actually, after two weeks in Hong Kong, China & Singapore, my neck is sore from swiveling so much.

    So, back to the topic. I was flying home, and a buddy of mine loaned me the boxed set of 'Band of Brothers' on DVD which I watched on my laptop. Excellent, excellent series that provides a very realistic account of the lives & times of the 101st Airborne's exploits during the war.

    One scene really, really troubled me though. They hold Operation Market Garden, where they parachute into the fields adjacent to Eindhoven and liberate it. The town throws a big party and everyone is wahooing. However, it's not very long before the guys in the local resistance group start grabbing women in the town. They rip their dresses off (women are marched around in their slips). Their heads are shorn, and some even get swaztikas (hopefully written, but possibly tatooed) onto their forehead. The guys in the 101 get pretty upset and ask what's going on. Apparently, these were the girls in the city that had German boyfriends. The resistance guy says "they don't have it so bad. Any of the men that helped them or did business with them will be shot".

    Did this sort of thing really happen?!?! Was it widespread in occupied countries? I mean, if the person was giving the SS detailed information on membership in the resistance, I could see it. But just having a boyfriend or selling them some goods?

    And then, after a 6 week campaign, the US forces end up having to withdraw and the Germans take back several areas. Did the Germans treat anyone who collaborated with the US forces that way?

    Sorry, just found the whole idea very troubling.
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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    i remember that scene, i didn't like it one bit and expected the soldiers to stop them.
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    yeah it happened. I've seen real life pics of it in my WWII book (1k pages of pics and some writing)

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    Abou's nemesis Member Krusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    It did happen in Norway at least.
    The women who had German boyfriends where beat up in public, and many had their hair cut off/shaved off completely. They were easy scapegoats.
    They were called tyskertser which translates as "German tarts".

    Any German-Norwegian offspring were looked down upon several decades, after the war ended, and they had a really tough time in school were they suffered several beatings and pushed out of the "crowd". They had a hard time making friends. Same thing with Norwegian Nazi Party children. It wasn't until the late 80's people and the government started to apologize and try to "repair" things.
    Last edited by Krusader; 06-02-2005 at 03:09.
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    !! Achtung Panzer !! Senior Member PanzerJaeger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Cruelty was certainly not one-sided in that war.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    It happened in Paris when it was liberated.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Well, I know it's kinda late their time, but perhas Ser Clegnane or somebody else could shed some light on whether the Germans did the same things to the local populus when they reclaimed lands (if even only briefly).

    Like I said, if these people were actual collaborators (fighting for the Nazis, divulging resistance identities, working with the secret police) I could understand it. But beyond being Nazis, the Germans were people. I'm sure a lot of them were pretty decent guys, and had to have their uniforms washed and pressed, just like anyone else. They needed a few pints at the pub, just like anyone else. I understand the Dutch being happy the Germans were finally driven off, and being pissed at those who had aided the Nazi cause... but I find the whole thing an insane overreaction, and if it happened in Norway & France, it's just as shameful.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    I think the Germans just killed everyone who got in their way in those situations, I'm not sure though. I know they did do it sometimes in Czechoslovakia.

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    !! Achtung Panzer !! Senior Member PanzerJaeger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Generally, the Germans only wasted time to punish the civilian population if they thought they could gain from it. The Germans were cruel of course, but there was a method to their madness.

    There was a lot of killing in Russia because of the partisan activity, and it did have short-term results. Hanging an entire village that let a partisan group sleep the night there served a purpose. It scared much of the rest of the population into staying out of rebellions for fear of their lives and more importantly their family's lives.... for a time. In the long run though, this activity permanently turned a once somewhat friendly population, remember in the beginning many russians welcomed the removal of stalin, into staunch russian patriots.

    The same thing happened in france. That famous village was burned not as much for some kind of retribution against the uprising there, but to send a message to other resistance forces.

    For the most part, civilian harassment was a tool just like a panzer. Its actually very interesting to delve into the mindset of some of the hardcore German warriors, especially the SS.

    They reached a kind of ultimate amorality during a wartime situation. They had no problems killing thousands of innocent people, but it had to serve a strategic purpose.

    The same concept can actually be applied to the Jews. Much of the German leadership truly believed the Jews were a cancer on society. The concentration camps were more of a realistic solution to a real(in their mindset) problem, than some kind of "we dont like them so lets kill them all" plan. The resources and troops committed to solving this problem back up my assertion.

    What makes these guys even tougher nuts to crack is that many of them would go home to loving families.. and were kind and gentle to them. Many were very refined, even intellectual people who enjoyed a good wine and the opera, and cared deeply for their friends and family.

    Its always been fascinating to me to see how these men seemed able to completely turn off and on their humanity as the situation dictated. Read up on Reinhard Heydrich for a perfect example.

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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Generally, the Germans only wasted time to punish the civilian population if they thought they could gain from it. The Germans were cruel of course, but there was a method to their madness.

    There was a lot of killing in Russia because of the partisan activity, and it did have short-term results. Hanging an entire village that let a partisan group sleep the night there served a purpose. It scared much of the rest of the population into staying out of rebellions for fear of their lives and more importantly their family's lives.... for a time. In the long run though, this activity permanently turned a once somewhat friendly population, remember in the beginning many russians welcomed the removal of stalin, into staunch russian patriots.

    The same thing happened in france. That famous village was burned not as much for some kind of retribution against the uprising there, but to send a message to other resistance forces.

    For the most part, civilian harassment was a tool just like a panzer. Its actually very interesting to delve into the mindset of some of the hardcore German warriors, especially the SS.

    They reached a kind of ultimate amorality during a wartime situation. They had no problems killing thousands of innocent people, but it had to serve a strategic purpose.

    The same concept can actually be applied to the Jews. Much of the German leadership truly believed the Jews were a cancer on society. The concentration camps were more of a realistic solution to a real(in their mindset) problem, than some kind of "we dont like them so lets kill them all" plan. The resources and troops committed to solving this problem back up my assertion.

    What makes these guys even tougher nuts to crack is that many of them would go home to loving families.. and were kind and gentle to them. Many were very refined, even intellectual people who enjoyed a good wine and the opera, and cared deeply for their friends and family.

    Its always been fascinating to me to see how these men seemed able to completely turn off and on their humanity as the situation dictated. Read up on Reinhard Heydrich for a perfect example.
    Man is a machine with emotions. Emotions are our animal setbacks and logical thinking our god's curse. Machines need to be programmed to do what they do and people are not exempt. We are taught everything we know through our senses and not ourselves.

    Everything we know is an influence from someone else, from langauge to behaviour to morals until we cut ourselves loose of other people and think only with our imagination. Only then are we 'real' people and not machines.

    Sorry I don't mean to get all philosophical but the whole fascination with inhumanity tends to bring that up in me.

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    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    The shavings certainly happened, I've never heard of mass executions though.

    In Belgium we had two resistances, and after the war, the one would blame the other of collaborating and shave their heads. A lot of innocents were punished.

    But like i said, I've only heard what they did to women, maybe they wanted to keep what they did to the men silent ?
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    Iron Fist Technical Administrator Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Well, I think what Panzer says is indeed scary.
    I know that when the germans conquered land in Russia, some SS squadrons followed to "clean" the area, killing whole villages, transporting people to KZs and other cruel things. I once read a biography of a german soldier whose unit gathered the people of a village in a church and then began to slaughter them. They threw little children against the walls and what not, killed everybody and I dont even remember why they did it. Well, this soldier was now supposed to fire at the people but instead he turned his rifle towards his captain. In the end, he didnt fire and gave up, but he got put into a minesweeper company and was more or less supposed to die on a minefield, which may also explain why so many people cooperate with such an evil regime, though I still cant really understand it.
    I never exactly heard of it, but I could think of Russians treating Nazi sympathizers very badly, because we all know of the huge hatred the Russians had because of all those Nazi crimes and cruelty in Russia.

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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Just flew home from Singapore. LONG, LONG flight (27 hours total travelling time). But, I made it (even if my bag decided to continue it's journey). All I have to say is Bmolsson, you've been holding out on us. The women over in Singapore are luscious (so I'm guessing Indonesia can't be too shabby either). I'm going to send you a digital camera, I want to start seeing 10 posts a day on the Babe Thread. Come on man... share the wealth! Actually, after two weeks in Hong Kong, China & Singapore, my neck is sore from swiveling so much.

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    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Wow... I haven't seen that episode. I do really like Band of Brothers from what I've said. But that is horrible. The soldiers ought to have killed those bastards that were harrasing innocent women. The women did nothing wrong at all. This is really said... I don't think I want to watch that episode. I always want to cry when I see women with short hair...
    And the Americans didn't do anything at all? Why the hell not? And it's not even like it's soldiers using women which all armies have done. This is far worse, I think, mainly because it's the locals mutilating their own women...

    PJ, from what you discribe of the Nazi's cruelty, it sounds a lot like the Mongol and other lesser steppe nation's actions. The Mongols in particular would execute an entire town that resitied, so the next town would surrender without a fight. And that also served a purpose, which they obviously relized just as the Nazis did...

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    PapaSmurf Senior Member Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Well, I know it's kinda late their time, but perhas Ser Clegnane or somebody else could shed some light on whether the Germans did the same things to the local populus when they reclaimed lands (if even only briefly).

    Like I said, if these people were actual collaborators (fighting for the Nazis, divulging resistance identities, working with the secret police) I could understand it. But beyond being Nazis, the Germans were people. I'm sure a lot of them were pretty decent guys, and had to have their uniforms washed and pressed, just like anyone else. They needed a few pints at the pub, just like anyone else. I understand the Dutch being happy the Germans were finally driven off, and being pissed at those who had aided the Nazi cause... but I find the whole thing an insane overreaction, and if it happened in Norway & France, it's just as shameful.
    Yes it did happen. Collaborators being killed before and after the liberation (killing collaborators was one of the main activity of resistance movement before liberation, then it shifts to support army advance).
    If you're not with us you're against us.
    German army was far from reluctant from killing anyone dealing with resistance movement, or just killing civilian as a way to cower people into obedience. They would put the blame on "terrorist" (as they called it)resistance movement... The village PJ mentionned is Oradour. Facing Resistance activities (which, after DDay had liberated the countryside over there) while going to Normandy, SS division "Das Reich" got upset, took a whole village, put the people in the church, and burnt the church to the ground. All villagers burnt alive.
    Those are not time for "anyone else". It's really ugly. You can choose to help the Nazi, even in very little way, and you collaborate, or you don't. Resistance wanted to scare people out of collaborating, Nazis cower people into obedience.
    This is war and long occupation for you; everyone got tainted with blood, and there were little place for honour or innocence. WWII was not a videogame. Sense or morality slowly desegrageted as you face more blood, more mindless killing, more betrayal.
    You know it was common practice in Resistance movement to spot kill members of a resistance cells if one of them proved to have betrayed? All of them... 1 guilty, all dead.
    To be honest, if you're shocked by women getting their head shaved, don't open an history book about WWII, those were the lucky ones. Are not mentionned, case of rape (including by regular army soldiers), death penalty on the spot, etc, etc. Fiction is far milder than history.

    And if that reminds you of some recent history, maybe you'll understand better the reaction of some countries that were occupied "1st hand". You don't wish that for anyone.

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    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Louis, what suprised me was that it was people doing it to their own people. It wasn't like a soldier from America raping a French girl, it was French humiliating French. I don't understand that... which is why I'm far more comfortable staying in my history books about very long ago wars.

    But what really suprised me was the lack of action by Americans. Not that I think that they are perfect or anything, but I'd hope that someone would have the decency to stop that. Esspecially considering some of the actions I saw by the 101 later on consering other civilians (confinscating houses, enlisting a town to help bury the dead from the neargby death camp, etc.), I wouldn't think that the fact that the bastards doing that were on "their side" would have stopped them.

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    PapaSmurf Senior Member Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Steppe, you know about the US Civil War? that got ugly pretty fast, hasn't it?

    Not much difference between a civil war, and occupation by a foreign power with collaboration.

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    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Well, in time of war, things like that happen quite often.

    When people are being harrassed by a foreign country during 4 years, you can expect them to turn their hatred against so called collaborators if they can't punish the foreign soldiers.
    People who were shot, or executed in another way, and women who get their head shaved weren't considered as 'true' french anymore.

    Btw, the communist party was mostly responsible for that. De Gaulle more or less tried to stop that at first, but the communists (someway, they are known to kill everyone who disagrees with them) had too much impact on public opinion, so he just let them did.
    JP Sartre, considered as a great philosoph (I don't really know why), also pointed as 'guilty' a lot of writters or artists who likely never even thought about collaborating with the germans.
    The worst is that a lot of people were executed because someone disliked them.

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    Intifadah Member Drish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Indeed.

    These people had suffered through a foreign occupation. The purging of collaborators and traitors was the inevitable result of frustration and anger, running rampant after the German departure.
    Last edited by Drish; 06-02-2005 at 15:36.
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    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    I can't believe how soft some of you are on this subject, especially when it comes to the treatment given to women! Show some backbone damnit! We're talking about war, not some mild scuffle between neighbors who share a common fence!

    Aiding and abetting an enemy is a traitorous act. Just because you're not fighting alongside the enemy or giving them sensitive information and/or national secrets doesn't mean you're beyond being considered 'one of them'. I don't care if the enemy soldiers these people were fraternizing with were 'nice' and 'not like the others'. They're goddamn invaders and in the case of the Nazis, the spearpoint of a heinous ideological crusade to boot! Women who were ostracized and/or beaten and shaved for f---ing enemy soldiers got off light. I think they should have gotten the same treatment as the men who betrayed their country, with a bullet to the brain or dangling from a hangman's noose.
    Last edited by Spino; 06-02-2005 at 17:26.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spino
    Women who were ostracized and/or beaten and shaved for f---ing enemy soldiers got off light. I think they should have gotten the same treatment as the men who betrayed their country, with a bullet to the brain or dangling from a hangman's noose.
    So you are saying they should have done the same the terrorists in Iraq are currently doing to the Iraqis that support the US "invaders"?

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    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusader
    It did happen in Norway at least.
    The women who had German boyfriends where beat up in public, and many had their hair cut off/shaved off completely. They were easy scapegoats.
    They were called tyskertser which translates as "German tarts".

    Any German-Norwegian offspring were looked down upon several decades, after the war ended, and they had a really tough time in school were they suffered several beatings and pushed out of the "crowd". They had a hard time making friends. Same thing with Norwegian Nazi Party children. It wasn't until the late 80's people and the government started to apologize and try to "repair" things.
    Wasn't one of the girl singers in ABBA a daughter of a german soldier in Norway?
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    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
    So you are saying they should have done the same the terrorists in Iraq are currently doing to the Iraqis that support the US "invaders"?
    It depends which terrorists we're talking about...

    A sizeable percentage of the terrorists in Iraq are not there because they want to 'restore' Iraqi sovereignty but because they believe in global jihad and Iraq is the place to be if you want to kill western infidels. You can bet that even after the US and coalition troops leave Iraq those same terrorists will still be there fighting to suppress democracy, meritocracy, women's rights and working towards the ultimate goal of instituting an fundamentalist theocratic government.

    On the other hand the pro-Saddam/pro-Sunni rule Iraqis who are engaging in terrorist acts are, technically speaking, fighting for their country and way of life... despite the fact that they're clearly in the minority and even if it means a return to the days when the majority of their countrymen (i.e. Shia Iraqis & Kurds) are put back under a dictatorial Sunni boot! Personally I cannot blame those pro-Saddam/pro-Sunni Iraqis for resorting to extreme measures to kick the 'invaders' out because quite frankly, given their serious lack of organization and abilities, that's about the only thing they can do effectively! However, blowing up their fellow countrymen in horrific fashion isn't garnering too much sympathy to their cause. Given their considerable lack of popular support I'm inclined to consider these pro-Saddam/pro-Sunni Iraqis to be more like an insurgency movement than an actual rebellion.
    Last edited by Spino; 06-02-2005 at 17:55.
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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
    I think the Germans just killed everyone who got in their way in those situations, I'm not sure though. I know they did do it sometimes in Czechoslovakia.
    I prefer you say "Nazi" when you say things like that. Most Germans are honourable people. Many would not support that unless they knew they would be killed if they resisted.

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    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Women who were ostracized and/or beaten and shaved for f---ing enemy soldiers got off light. I think they should have gotten the same treatment as the men who betrayed their country, with a bullet to the brain or dangling from a hangman's noose.
    No. I would never condone such a thing. I don't care if they "betrayed" their country they are still humans and should never be executed for crimes they didn't even do!
    That reasoning discussts me. This isn't even a trial, this is a frickin lynch mob! And these people weren't the ones killing the innocents, it was the Nazis!
    And almost certaintly, they didn't have a choice! Most of them were raped, or would have been raped anyway! This is just as bad as certaint practices in certaint parts of the Muslim world concering women.

    Steppe, you know about the US Civil War? that got ugly pretty fast, hasn't it?

    Not much difference between a civil war, and occupation by a foreign power with collaboration.
    Excellent point. And yeah, I do know about the Civil War, and that did get ugly very fast on both sides.

    And I guess my anger comes from the fact that WW2 is almost always potrayed as a "good" war. I know that horrible things happen in all wars, but all of the ones I am really familar with didn't have a good or a bad side, and their morals are vastly different from peopel of today.
    Even the Civil War, which is really the most recent war that I would consider myself remotley knowledgable on, didn't really have a good or bad side... Both sides were wrong, and both did good and bad things, and both had good and bad people.

    But this is the "good guys" doing things that were simpily unexcusable, despite the reasonins given. I understand the hatred and fustration, but take it out on the Germans, not the girls they almost certaintly forced. I find the fact that "good guys" conducting their own Salem Witch Hunt for pro Nazis very disturbing, and unexcusable, all the more so because they were women from their own towns.
    Anyone doing this sort of mob justice is just as bad as the soldiers who brutalized them.

    edit: Maniac, Kaiser knows the difference between Nazi and German. However, the fact remains that many soldiers weren't Nazis, but rather plain Germans.
    Last edited by Steppe Merc; 06-02-2005 at 21:43.

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    Silent Ruler Member Dn-Heru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    Wasn't one of the girl singers in ABBA a daughter of a german soldier in Norway?
    Yes, the brunette girl, Frida I think, was norwegian. Her mother was together with a german. After the war Frida and her grandmother (and mother) moved to Sweden to because they knew that she would be treated poorly in the small community they were from.

    Like Krusader said. The shaving of women and punishment of collaboraters happened in Norway. The women who were not married to Germans, were sent to work camps as well I think. If a woman was married to a german she had to leave to country and give up her citizenship.

    Their children and those of the members of Quisling's party, Nasjonal Samling, were picked on and sometimes institutionalized (sp?) in asylums and deemed mentally retarded.

    The punishment of the collaborators directly after the war ended was, as could be expected, harsh. The sentances became milder as the years went by.

    The reason for the cruel treatment was probably like Spino, and others have said, that they were (seen) as traitors. In war there is very clear sides. It is them and then there is us. If you were involved with the enemy in any way you were a traitor, simple as that. When people have lived under an occupation for five years, they are bound to be a bit pissed, to put it mildly. So since you can not go after the soldiers themselves you go after those who helped them, slept with them or had close relations with them in any way instead.

    For those who say that they can not understand how someone could treat their fellow country(wo)men like that, imagine that your girlfriend/sister/cousin willingly sleeps with a person you hate and who has treated you very badly, (because most of the women in Norway who slept with germans did so freely), you would feel betrayed and angry as hell, and probably look at her as less than a human-being. Basically emotions would be high. When emotions are running high you react more intensely. And in the days and months after the liberation emotions were high, and combined with various group influences you have a recipe for disaster. If you were seen as a traitor, you were in trouble.

    Was the harsh treatment fair and right? Most certainly not. Is it understandable that they reacted like that? Absolutely.

    A.Saturnus can probably better explain the psychological mechanisms of these actions. (I would have to look them up in my textbook, and my post is long enough as it is )
    Patience is the companion of wisdom.
    --St. Augustine

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Quote Originally Posted by evil_maniac from mars
    I prefer you say "Nazi" when you say things like that. Most Germans are honourable people. Many would not support that unless they knew they would be killed if they resisted.
    *Germany and the Nazi's were pretty much one and the same, it was the German army that did it, they were commanded by Nazis but they were still Germans*

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    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Din-Heru, I was under the assumption that many people of Norway, the Netherlands and Sweden served in the Nazi SS... or was that just a few people? Or am did only one of those countries have a German sympthatizers? I'm very shakey with my knowledge of countries that used to belong to the Norse...
    I was just wondering why if there were (at least from what I could see) many SS soldiers from that area, why the populace would still react as violently...

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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    it's true, there are alot of SS divisions from non German nations. Norway had em, The Netherlands had them, Sweden and Finland had a bunch of volenteers in the SS, even the French had men. And India too!

    Why do you hate Freedom?
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    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

    Finland! I knew I was missing one!
    Thanks for the info, though that is pretty nuts that India had an SS division. I imagine that India and probably the French one weren't to numerous or very indicative of the local feeling. What about the Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway and other "Norse" nations? Were the ones that joined ostracized by the normal people (for lack of a better term), or was it common, and were the people used to it? And if so, why did they react so violently to Nazi sympathizers when many from their country were in the SS?

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
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