Treatment of Nazi sympathizers after liberation

**Don Corleone** · 06-02-2005, 02:26

Hi guys,

Just flew home from Singapore. LONG, LONG flight (27 hours total travelling time). But, I made it (even if my bag decided to continue it's journey). All I have to say is Bmolsson, you've been holding out on us. The women over in Singapore are luscious (so I'm guessing Indonesia can't be too shabby either). I'm going to send you a digital camera, I want to start seeing 10 posts a day on the Babe Thread. Come on man... share the wealth! Actually, after two weeks in Hong Kong, China & Singapore, my neck is sore from swiveling so much.

So, back to the topic. I was flying home, and a buddy of mine loaned me the boxed set of 'Band of Brothers' on DVD which I watched on my laptop. Excellent, excellent series that provides a very realistic account of the lives & times of the 101st Airborne's exploits during the war.

One scene really, really troubled me though. They hold Operation Market Garden, where they parachute into the fields adjacent to Eindhoven and liberate it. The town throws a big party and everyone is wahooing. However, it's not very long before the guys in the local resistance group start grabbing women in the town. They rip their dresses off (women are marched around in their slips). Their heads are shorn, and some even get swaztikas (hopefully written, but possibly tatooed) onto their forehead. The guys in the 101 get pretty upset and ask what's going on. Apparently, these were the girls in the city that had German boyfriends. The resistance guy says "they don't have it so bad. Any of the men that helped them or did business with them will be shot".

Did this sort of thing really happen?!?! Was it widespread in occupied countries? I mean, if the person was giving the SS detailed information on membership in the resistance, I could see it. But just having a boyfriend or selling them some goods?

And then, after a 6 week campaign, the US forces end up having to withdraw and the Germans take back several areas. Did the Germans treat anyone who collaborated with the US forces that way?

Sorry, just found the whole idea very troubling.

**LittleGrizzly** · 06-02-2005, 02:32

i remember that scene, i didn't like it one bit and expected the soldiers to stop them.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 06-02-2005, 02:43

yeah it happened. I've seen real life pics of it in my WWII book (1k pages of pics and some writing)

**Krusader** · 06-02-2005, 03:07

It did happen in Norway at least.
The women who had German boyfriends where beat up in public, and many had their hair cut off/shaved off completely. They were easy scapegoats.
They were called tyskertøser which translates as "German tarts".

Any German-Norwegian offspring were looked down upon several decades, after the war ended, and they had a really tough time in school were they suffered several beatings and pushed out of the "crowd". They had a hard time making friends. Same thing with Norwegian Nazi Party children. It wasn't until the late 80's people and the government started to apologize and try to "repair" things.

**King Henry V** · 06-02-2005, 17:35

Originally Posted by Krusader

It did happen in Norway at least.
The women who had German boyfriends where beat up in public, and many had their hair cut off/shaved off completely. They were easy scapegoats.
They were called tyskertøser which translates as "German tarts".

Any German-Norwegian offspring were looked down upon several decades, after the war ended, and they had a really tough time in school were they suffered several beatings and pushed out of the "crowd". They had a hard time making friends. Same thing with Norwegian Nazi Party children. It wasn't until the late 80's people and the government started to apologize and try to "repair" things.

Wasn't one of the girl singers in ABBA a daughter of a german soldier in Norway?

**PanzerJaeger** · 06-02-2005, 03:09

Cruelty was certainly not one-sided in that war.

**Papewaio** · 06-02-2005, 03:09

It happened in Paris when it was liberated.

**Don Corleone** · 06-02-2005, 03:34

Well, I know it's kinda late their time, but perhas Ser Clegnane or somebody else could shed some light on whether the Germans did the same things to the local populus when they reclaimed lands (if even only briefly).

Like I said, if these people were actual collaborators (fighting for the Nazis, divulging resistance identities, working with the secret police) I could understand it. But beyond being Nazis, the Germans were people. I'm sure a lot of them were pretty decent guys, and had to have their uniforms washed and pressed, just like anyone else. They needed a few pints at the pub, just like anyone else. I understand the Dutch being happy the Germans were finally driven off, and being pissed at those who had aided the Nazi cause... but I find the whole thing an insane overreaction, and if it happened in Norway & France, it's just as shameful.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 06-02-2005, 03:39

I think the Germans just killed everyone who got in their way in those situations, I'm not sure though. I know they did do it sometimes in Czechoslovakia.

**Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe** · 06-02-2005, 13:02

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Well, I know it's kinda late their time, but perhas Ser Clegnane or somebody else could shed some light on whether the Germans did the same things to the local populus when they reclaimed lands (if even only briefly).

Like I said, if these people were actual collaborators (fighting for the Nazis, divulging resistance identities, working with the secret police) I could understand it. But beyond being Nazis, the Germans were people. I'm sure a lot of them were pretty decent guys, and had to have their uniforms washed and pressed, just like anyone else. They needed a few pints at the pub, just like anyone else. I understand the Dutch being happy the Germans were finally driven off, and being pissed at those who had aided the Nazi cause... but I find the whole thing an insane overreaction, and if it happened in Norway & France, it's just as shameful.

Yes it did happen. Collaborators being killed before and after the liberation (killing collaborators was one of the main activity of resistance movement before liberation, then it shifts to support army advance).
If you're not with us you're against us.
German army was far from reluctant from killing anyone dealing with resistance movement, or just killing civilian as a way to cower people into obedience. They would put the blame on "terrorist" (as they called it)resistance movement... The village PJ mentionned is Oradour. Facing Resistance activities (which, after DDay had liberated the countryside over there) while going to Normandy, SS division "Das Reich" got upset, took a whole village, put the people in the church, and burnt the church to the ground. All villagers burnt alive.
Those are not time for "anyone else". It's really ugly. You can choose to help the Nazi, even in very little way, and you collaborate, or you don't. Resistance wanted to scare people out of collaborating, Nazis cower people into obedience.
This is war and long occupation for you; everyone got tainted with blood, and there were little place for honour or innocence. WWII was not a videogame. Sense or morality slowly desegrageted as you face more blood, more mindless killing, more betrayal.
You know it was common practice in Resistance movement to spot kill members of a resistance cells if one of them proved to have betrayed? All of them... 1 guilty, all dead.
To be honest, if you're shocked by women getting their head shaved, don't open an history book about WWII, those were the lucky ones. Are not mentionned, case of rape (including by regular army soldiers), death penalty on the spot, etc, etc. Fiction is far milder than history.

And if that reminds you of some recent history, maybe you'll understand better the reaction of some countries that were occupied "1st hand". You don't wish that for anyone.

Louis,

**bmolsson** · 06-02-2005, 11:39

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Just flew home from Singapore. LONG, LONG flight (27 hours total travelling time). But, I made it (even if my bag decided to continue it's journey). All I have to say is Bmolsson, you've been holding out on us. The women over in Singapore are luscious (so I'm guessing Indonesia can't be too shabby either). I'm going to send you a digital camera, I want to start seeing 10 posts a day on the Babe Thread. Come on man... share the wealth! Actually, after two weeks in Hong Kong, China & Singapore, my neck is sore from swiveling so much.

**Steppe Merc** · 06-02-2005, 12:57

Wow... I haven't seen that episode. I do really like Band of Brothers from what I've said. But that is horrible. The soldiers ought to have killed those bastards that were harrasing innocent women. The women did nothing wrong at all. This is really said... I don't think I want to watch that episode. I always want to cry when I see women with short hair...
And the Americans didn't do anything at all? Why the hell not? And it's not even like it's soldiers using women which all armies have done. This is far worse, I think, mainly because it's the locals mutilating their own women...

PJ, from what you discribe of the Nazi's cruelty, it sounds a lot like the Mongol and other lesser steppe nation's actions. The Mongols in particular would execute an entire town that resitied, so the next town would surrender without a fight. And that also served a purpose, which they obviously relized just as the Nazis did...