what do you mean? you're just quoting him without pointing out any specific details. always nice to hear it from the experts..
Fair enough scion, only the last time i tried it it took me an hour and a half and it deleted on me well firstly
Ruire (King; Faction leader)
Tanaise (Tanist; Faction heir)
Flath ('Prince' or 'Chief'; regional governors/leaders, administrators as well as military leaders)
Brehon ('Judge'; kept the peace, was in charge of organizing militias, as well as convened with other Brehon to vote on laws, and arbitrated in legal proceedings; every region had a few Brehon usually, selected from the most well-educated)
Cuinnaran ('Coiner'; head of a mint)
Ardtaidhleoir ('High Diplomat'; head chancellor of the kingdom)
Easpag ('Bishop' of a region)
Right, ruire was not the name of the most pre-eminent king, ruire was a sub-king within a province usually who acted under the provincial king but could frequently be rebellious. For example Osraige was nominally under Rí Mumhain, the Ulaidh were nominally under Rí in Tuaiscirt(modern ulster), or Breifne under Rí Connachta but all acted with impugnity, whereas Eoghanacht loch Léin etc would be much more subserviant to the Rí Mumhain likewise with Uí Briúin Ai under the Rí Connachta or the Uí Dróna under Rí Laighean. The ruaire was following the way of the rí tuaithe by the ninth century, i.e rapidly diminishing of power, and his honorific title was being replaced by duces or in some instances The most pre-eminent king was the king of the province, Rí Connachta(Connacht) Rí Laighean (Laighin/ Leinster) Rí in Tuaiscirt/ Rí an Tuaiscirt(An Tuaisceart/the North/Modern day ulster also called Aileach after Grianán Ailigh, or referred to as the northern Uí Néill), and Rí Mumhain(Mumha, Munster).On achieving submission/hostages of the other provinces, a provincial king became Rí Érenn, which was first achieved my Maoilseachlainn I, king of the southern Uí Néill in the middle of the Ninth century, quite pertinent to the mod, i think. The term Ard-Rí was not used till the twelfth century.
Flaith was not an office but just a prince great lord or even a bishop. No evidence they were used in adminstration. Administrative offices in early ireland included the maer/maor, i.e. the steward, usually of a noble family, so may be equivalent to a treasurer. Then the toibhgheoir/aos toibhigh or taxmen
who performed the normal everyday cess. There was also the muire, a lord who was bailiff of a territory. There was the Airrí or governor used in the 9th tenth eleventh and twelfth centuries to control other kings provinces after submission, i.e. a governor. The reachtaire who was keeper of palaces and forts. Never heard of a breitheamh(brehon naturally is an anglicisation) organising militias. The nearest thing to a militia would have been the ceithearn, fian bands or the díbheargaigh but i'll refer to such later. The breitheamhain didn't vote on laws either they all interpreted them from canon law the brehon laws and local enactions and customs and they were not an appointable office as 7 years training was required in SCHOOLS.
Cuinnearan- sounds like the gaelic form of coiner to me. most of irish (unsure about scottish) exchange was in silver bullion in this period. They worked with pingin(a norse borrowing) unga(ounce) scrupall(scruple) and sét(literally a jewel or valuable item). cattle wheat etc were still used in exchange. think a Saor airgead or silversmith could imply the same thing. Coinage was only introduced by the norse and native coinage didn't appear till the second half of the 12th century, and even then we are unsure.
Ardtaidhleoir- okay but there were other more common words for emissaries like teachta, teachtaire or misidear(romance loan-word) Toscaireacht was a delegation, taidhleoir seems a bit to modern. Reathaí (rethaige) was a messenger or simple runner.
Easpag-. most bishops in this period had nominal if any power. Ireland was a monastic church at this period remember. The comharba would have had the same power as an archbishop elsewhere, and the airchinneach of a local bishop, it was they who guarded the relics and provided the local clergy. The abbot (ab) of a monastery would be like the head of a collegiate church of canons. Bishops did not gain power till rath breasail in 1111.
Now religion, always thorny and unclear in early ireland.
Gaelic ancillaries (I posted more elsewhere);
Religious (Related to governing a province with religious structures)
Manarch - A monk usually was included in a chief's retainers largely to help him keep track of finances and as a personal tutor. - +Management (in a chief's retinue, it's unlikely he would be converting many people, since monks had no one to delegate to)
Ab - An abbot is a very learned monk, and head of a monastary. His signs of confidence in a leader are a boon, and he brings both considerable skill and a private cadre of monks to aide him. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Sagart - A priest was not an uncommon part of a Gaelic chief's followers, for both keeping a region Christian, and for aide in managing finances, as Gaelic priests were often byproducts of the best local schools. - +Christian conversion, and management
Easpag - A bishop entered into the personal retinue of a king or chief was a sign of prestige and influence; it represents a vote of confidence from the Church itself in the abilities of a man. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Manarmainlia - A surgeon trained in a monastary is familiar with techniques to reduce pain, clean surgical tools, remove limbs, and staunch bloodflow; he, and his associates, are useful for improving the number of survivors after a battle. - +Increases number of survivors after a battle
Scribhneoir - A scribe assigned to a chief or king takes an exhaustive record of his life; he copies down his speeches, major events, such as the birth of children, or death of close relatives or friends. - +Increases influence
Manach for a start not manarch, don't understand if they had abbotts how would they have no one to which he could to delegate. Bit on sagart/(pl)sagairt is true, and i can't believe it was even suggested(elsewhere) that the irish didn't have schools. on that point i am in full agreement with Ranika. Scríbhneoir is modern, scríbhighe would be more suitable as well as annálaí(annalist) senchae(historian who recorded all the adminstrative happenings of the tuath to memory) as well as the fer coimgne, same kind of idea, and croinice, the chronicler, who would put together the more indepth chronicles like the Chronicle of ireland or the fragmentary annals. Never heard of a manarlia but most of the lia, icí, miodh(all physicians) would have been monastically trained anyway, like the breitheamhain, the filí and the croincí/annálaithe. The better learned the scholar, the more likely he would gain a title like suí leigheann fer n-érenn the espert in learning of the men of ireland, could also be connacht etc. or suí leighis, expert in medicine, perhaps these titles were appointed by the king. As for easpag see above.
Militaristic (Related to military structures or winning battles)
Gasog - Military scouts search the nearby area, and examine an enemy's position to give a commander an improved idea of how to conduct a battle. - +Armies line-of-sight, and command
Curadha - A champion in the service of a chief raises his men's morale and encourages them to fight harder. - +Morale to troops in the army, maybe an additional bodyguard or something if possible
Cogaflath - A warchief is a skilled lesser chief who has shown a knack for command. Coupled with another leader, his abilities are useful for coordinating a battle. - +Command when attacking
Dunflath - A fort-chief is a defender of a cashel, and is best used in this ability. - +Command when defending during a siege
Seanlaochagal - A veteran soldier or mercenary of a foreign people is useful when fighting them. - +Command when fighting a specific culture (same basic ancillary of various types)
Gasóg is the mod irish for boy scout, not a military one. Sceimheal/Sceimhealta(pl) were skirmishers who performed such a task. Also had spies or fear bratha or brathadóirí(now means informer). Giraldus Cambrensis remarks on such frequently.
Curadh(curadha is pl) is correct, in fact the general was frequently such a champion, which would have been good for morale.
Never heard of a cogaflath but there was a tuairccnid catha/ tuairgní catha literally battle smiter, but had the functions of a general. In the early period they fought on their own but kings in this period went to battle with them.
Dúnflaith- suggest reachtaire here for an irish context. never heard of a dúnflath.
Seanlaoch- okay or crannlaoch if u prefer
Other military titles were taoiseach marcshlua(cavalry marshal) taoiseach cabhlaigh(admiral) taoiseach lucht tighe/teaghlaigh (head of household troop)
As regards soikernbannal or kernbannal that sounds like complete charlatanry to me. Firstly they are english spellings, secondly kern looks like ceithearn a war band, banal is the scots gaelic for troop but a troop of women or a ban-dáil- sounds like something you found in dwelly.
The horsemen in irish society were called marcach/marcaigh(pl). Had armour swords lances(though they couldn't couch them due to lack of stirrups) saddles and diamond shields (seen from high-crosses). They were not called ridire. ridire is a norse term from the word ritter thus not appropriate. in fact i've only seen ridire referring to english knights. Marcshlua is cavalry.
carbad- chariot cairbtheach- charioteer still in use till 9th century then fades out. involves the driver arra and the charioteer who would throw spears or fight with spears and swords. noble fighters mostly.
Amhas-mercenary an important element in irish warfare especially in the tenth century, its how bóroimhe was so successful. Well trained well armoured but taxing to the country as placed on them as bonnachta i.e. billeted troops and not a type of soldier.
Óglach/óglaoch was a young warrior- similar to a vassal who gave his services to his lord at a young age, comes from carpat ar imram, a wandering soldier paying homage to a random lord. Had best of equipment swords and armour and shields, given to him on submission. Óglachas became the irish for vassalage and this is where gallóglaigh came from.
Daoscarshlua(slua means hosting/army) or fodhaoine was the irish for peasants and perhaps in a military context aswell. Most peasants were under daor-géillsine or base-clientship which only required labour services, but they irish were known for building special defensive structures on the battlefield. (cladhaire the irish for coward means ditch-digger perhaps implying that he didn't fight on the battlefield like a hero but dug). Saor-géillsine or free-clientship was military service, but things were rapidly changing in these periods, perhaps with just spears and shields.
Many young men of the tuath were recruited into special bands the ceithearn, the fian or the díbheargaigh. the fian would perhaps have had swords, hence they are thought of as being more noble and inherited a literature. Ceithearn and díbheargaigh would perhaps have been spearmen. Ceithearn were more common, hence ceithearnach or kern became the name for the ordinary irish soldier. The díbheargaigh had pagan elements so were anathema to the church.
Archers are not really attested for. Irish for bow is bogha, from the norse, and saighead from the latin saggita and saighdeoir from the latin saggitarius. Also irish word Fiodh-bhac literally wooden curve but may be a loose description. We know of irish kings in the twelfth century employing bows and archers, but may have just got them from mercenaries. Perhaps
they used them like the throwing spears as in a prelude to a melee attack.
Civil (Related to governing a province with appropriate structures, like courts for judges, or markets for merchants/craftsmen, etc.)
Brehon - A judge is a useful associate, both for keeping law, and keep one's self out of trouble. - +Law in a province
Ceanna - A merchant is good both for his grasp of monetary matters, and his knowledge of the inner workings of trade. - +Trade income and management
Baiera - A treasurer has an intricate knowledge of mathematics, taxation, and budgetting, and is of use in eliminating costly waste and overspending. - +Tax income and management
Ealaiont - An artisan crafts something; banners, pictures, linen works, etc. This particular artisan crafts objects for his master's fame, such as elaborate metalworks or banners depicting his victories. - +Influence
Ceoltoiri - A band of musicians sings praises about their master,and improve his image in the eyes of the people he governs. - +Influence and happiness
Cogaceoltoiri - A band of war musicians sing and play war songs that help his men keep step when marching and inspire them before battle. - +Influence and morale of army
Brehon- breitheamh Ceanna- Ceannaighe Baiera- never heard of it maor could have such a position though. Ealaiont-ceard Ceoltoiri- oirfidigh was the irish for entertainers, which would be more appropriate here.
Listen wrecked here have more on arms and armour etc if people would like to see it, but recommend reading hayes-mccoy(anything really by him) marie-therese flanagan in military history of ireland- ó corráin in nationality and kingship and anything by simms or charles edwards.
There is more on those relics i have objection to.
Well, this'll be interesting.
What's wrong with Dwelly's, by the way?
This message from Ranika is a month old so it's our fault, we just haven't remedied it yet.As regards soikernbannal or kernbannal that sounds like complete charlatanry to me. Firstly they are english spellings, secondly kern looks like ceithearn a war band, banal is the scots gaelic for troop but a troop of women or a ban-dáil- sounds like something you found in dwelly.
For the other stuff I'm clueless, but yes, it should be interestingI forgot. I used a few medieval terms for the Irish units; if you could tell some one and have such things remedied, that'd be very helpful. It's sometimes hard to find appropriate dark age terms.
Kern is a Norman name. Kernbannal is a Norman-Gaelic mash word employed by Normans in Ireland during the middle ages.
The proper name is 'Ceitheirn' (which was also used in the middle ages, but I find now it was also used in the dark ages). Archers are 'Saighduira' (which would later become a generic term for soldiers).
Nothing really but bit anachronistic using a modern scots gaelic dictionary to provide terms from the middle irish period, especially since scots gaelic as written form didn't really emerge until the sixteenth century.Originally Posted by NeonGod
I wouldn't even call it 'modern' Scots Gaelic, but you're totally right there. It just seemed as though you were dumping on it in general.Originally Posted by Riadach
Names needed to:
-Khazars (we have the kings' list so we need only medieval jewish male and female names)
-Bulgars (Slav names!)
-Rus (especially females)
-DENMARK, NORWAY, SWEDEN female names
-Welsh female names
-Norman female names
If you want to help us please send such names to us.
Last edited by Csatadi; 02-07-2006 at 19:38.
We can help you for welsh female names and 'Englisc' ones. I will give you the elements when the list will be over (for welsh females).
Arthurian : Total War
Nice mod you are making.Originally Posted by Csatadi
A few random scandinavian female names (some of my ancestors from around AD 1000-1200, majority or all of them in use before AD 800)
Þ, can be substituded with a Th or a T if the game doesn't support the olde ISO 8859-1 standard or equalants.. The ð substituded with a d... etc...
Last edited by Csatadi; 02-19-2006 at 15:41.
Nice job Csatadi!
"In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore
As promised to Csatadi here's the list of bulgarian chirstian names. The feminine forms are the ones that end with "a".
I da padnem i da biem
some islamique names:
abassides ,umayades and fatimides caliphates
hi all,i have a list of names of the governer and thegeneral of al moravides:
Sir ibn Abi Bakr =the victorious no one efeat this man great attker and ambushera
Garur the captain of the backguards under yussef ibn tashafine (a great killer he execute radi the son of almotamide of sevilla)
Dawud ibn Aisha.
Muhammad ibn al-Hajj take Cordoba and the Guadalquivir valley early in the year
Abu Bakr ibn Ibrahiim
Muhammad ibn Ibrahim
Ali ibn al-Hajj
Muhammad ibn Aisha
Mazdali ibn Tilankan
Muhammad ibn Fatima
Yusuf ibn Tashfin
Tamim ibn Yusuf ibn Tashfin,
Al-Mustain of Zaragoza because the emirate of saragoza was under the protectorat of the almoravides
Emir Mubashir ibn Sulayman
Abu Bakr ibn Ibrahim ibn Tifilwit
Ali ibn Yusuf ibn Tashfin
Ali ibn Majjuz
Tashfin ibn Ali ibn Yusuf
Abu Hafs Umar ibn Ali ibn al-Hajj
Yahya ibn Ali ibn Ghaniya
Abul-Qasim Ahmad ibn al-Husayn al-Qasi rebel
Last edited by almazor; 03-27-2006 at 11:56.
the ''son off'' idea is great !
Perfect for generals or kings and a good idea to indicate a family relationship:
example : a ( fictional ! ) general named Harold dies of old age and his son Odo takes over the command of the army. The name of the new general :
I don't know if this was also popular in western Europe ( look my description ! ) but being called after your father or, more popular, your grandfather, was very popular in Carolingian and post - Carolingian Europe.
A good idea ?
-Once killing starts, it is difficult to draw the line
- C. Cornelius Tacitus