Van Gogh Murderer

[Kagemusha]

I hope so too.With that hard evidence against him.If he gets a way with it,then there is something very wrong in Dutch court system.

[BDC]

I hope so too.With that hard evidence against him.If he gets a way with it,then there is something very wrong in Dutch court system.

Especially after he admitted it and said he would do it again...

EDIT: By Panzer's logic all Roman Catholics are murderers, and should be purged from Europe to protect human rights and freedom of speech. Possibly they should all be dumped in Vatican City, or Ireland, depending on how evil they are.

[Kagemusha]

EDIT: By Panzer's logic all Roman Catholics are murderers, and should be purged from Europe to protect human rights and freedom of speech. Possibly they should all be dumped in Vatican City, or Ireland, depending on how evil they are.

The Swedish and us tryed that in 30 years war.With not so good result.
Just kidding.

[The Wizard]

The police officers cried when Mohammed B. said he had shot at them to kill them. CRIED I tell you. No man, I thought he was saying hello...



~Wiz

[Steppe Merc]

Hmm, those police officers seem very nice. I bet they wouldn't care much about drugs either... wonder if they'd consider transfering over here?

[The Stranger]

If I get my hands on that little bastard and his countless fans I am going to rip of their heads.

you know a lot of dutch people are such bitches (no offense on you Frag) cuz they were all screaming for freedom of speech and all. my cousins girlfriend once had a discusion at school...they were asking everyone what they thought about the murder...she said, I DONT REALLY CARE.

she got detention for a WEEK...everybody that said it wasnt fair got detention for a DAY....no great freedom of speech. the goverment wanted to stop subsidie (sp?) to a program cuz they were hosting a show that was telling the life of some people that were tossed out of Holland....nice freedom of speech.....they wanted to stop the VARA (TV) cuz it was tooo left.....nice freedom of speech.

i dont say it is good what MB did...i think it was very wrong....but the VAN GOGH was definitly wrong too...freedom of speech means saying things without hurting other people (atleast try, it cant be done always) but he was ordinary hurting people.....there was no speech but it was calling names...i'm not allowed to say all moslims are goatfuckers...i can say, i dont have sympathy for moslims or i dont like m or i dont like their thoughts..

you cant call the queen a Rich Ugly Bitch...but you can call other peoples god a Pig on a cloud...

i'd personally see him prosecuted instead of murdered...they were both wrong.

then you als got Hirsi Ali...i have sympathy for her, she's brave and she is doing it the right way. i cant find myself in everything she says but she does it clean and good.

[The Stranger]

Oh, he's a murderer, that's all. As if Theo van Gogh was a great addition to our society. HA!



~Wiz

no offense but before he started his polical career (to say it this way) he was oke..but after he was a real loser.. and i dont thinkk he should be murdered...but i dont feel sorry for him being murdered. ofcourse i do feel sorry for his family.

[Dâriûsh]

Really? You don’t feel sorry for someone who was mercilessly butchered by a fascist bastard?

[The Stranger]

no not if that ONE is THEO van Gogh....i'm not saying that the act was good. i despise that kid...i also despise Theo. i feel sorry for him in they way that nobody deserves it to die this way....but i dont feel the pain other people felt by his passing.

[PanzerJaeger]

freedom of speech means saying things without hurting other people (atleast try, it cant be done always) but he was ordinary hurting people.....

^The main tenant of neoliberalism.

[Don Corleone]

Let me get this straight, Uenu. Were you opposed to him making the documentary that talked about the physical abuse against Muslim women, because to point that out hurts the feelings of Muslim men? Because that's why the guy murdered him, the muderer even said so.

[The Stranger]

first, spell my name right. second. i'm not against his works as a filmer, i'm against his rude speeches against the islam...i dont say his oppinion was wrong he just brings it wrong. if he'd said i dont believe in ALLAH it was all oke but he had to paste i dont believe in Allah that pig on a cloud behind it.
(with that movie he was right. even if it hurted the feelings of muslim men, cuz they were wrong on this point..but there was no reason to call all muslims goatfuckers, there was a reason to make that movie)

also when he made the movie, he had no intention to hurt someones feelings, if he did had the intention he was more rotten then i thought, when he started calling people names he did had the intention, and that was wrong

they were both wrong....one for his speeches one for his act...ofcourse the murderer was more wrong.

[Don Corleone]

Sorry, I just noticed that myself, Umeu.

And I agree with you, a lot of Van Gogh's public statements were crass and offensive. But that's not why the guy murdered him. The guy murdered him because of the documentary, because it made muslims look bad.

As hard as this is to stomach, you should be able to make offensive and crass comments whenever you like. People in America defecate on statues of the Virgin Mary. They draw cartoons of her as a slut, frequently engaging in various sexual acts with multiple male, and female, partners. Let's not even get started with how Jesus gets treated, but dipping a crucifix into a jar of urine is one of the more mellow statements I've seen made.

As offensive as all of this is, time and time again, the courts have found it to be protected speech. Why should Islam be different?

[Steppe Merc]

Well those people are just stupid. Don't they have anything better to do with their time?

[Navaros]

unlike most so-called Christians, Muslims will generally take their religion seriously and hence will not tolerate having it degraded or defaced as Van Gogh has done

the man who killed Van Gogh was not a radical. he was merely standing by his Islamic beliefs.

[Ser Clegane]

unlike most so-called Christians, Muslims will generally take their religion seriously and hence will not tolerate having it degraded or defaced as Van Gogh has done

the man who killed Van Gogh was not a radical. he was merely standing by his Islamic beliefs.

So are you suggesting that "real" Christians should also kill people of who they believe that they "defaced" Christianity?

[Don Corleone]

unlike most so-called Christians, Muslims will generally take their religion seriously and hence will not tolerate having it degraded or defaced as Van Gogh has done

the man who killed Van Gogh was not a radical. he was merely standing by his Islamic beliefs.

Again, Navaros, it was the documentary he made highlighting the misogyny in Islam that got him killed. Are you contending Christians should go out and kill anybody that points out fact that make us look bad?

[Navaros]

So are you suggesting that "real" Christians should also kill people of who they believe that they "defaced" Christianity?

perhaps "kill" is too extreme. but they should take it a lot more seriously and do something about it. most Christians just say "oh well, that's so sad but i guess it's just life!" (and do nothing else) when Christianity is defaced and degraded.

Muslims, on the other hand, take things much more seriously. and that i can respect. you don't deface Islam without facing some sort of retribution from believers. that's true conviction, and conviction should be respected.

[Navaros]

it was the documentary he made highlighting the misogyny in Islam that got him killed.

to describe Van Gogh's atrocity as a "documentary" is highly inaccurate and far too kind of a label, from what i have seen of it (a few clips)

i would say it is more akin to a snuff film rather than a documentary; and the victim of the snuff film being Islam itself

[The Stranger]

Sorry, I just noticed that myself, Umeu.

And I agree with you, a lot of Van Gogh's public statements were crass and offensive. But that's not why the guy murdered him. The guy murdered him because of the documentary, because it made muslims look bad.

As hard as this is to stomach, you should be able to make offensive and crass comments whenever you like. People in America defecate on statues of the Virgin Mary. They draw cartoons of her as a slut, frequently engaging in various sexual acts with multiple male, and female, partners. Let's not even get started with how Jesus gets treated, but dipping a crucifix into a jar of urine is one of the more mellow statements I've seen made.

As offensive as all of this is, time and time again, the courts have found it to be protected speech. Why should Islam be different?

if that is how such thing are treated (legally) in the USA the islam shouldnt be treated different. but i holland the Protestant Church is Defended by the law...they took out a cartoon in a newspaper that made jesus fell in the water after trying to walk over it.

so when they protect the protestant church, they also should protect the islam and other religions. by start if i said:

The Church should be protected by the goverment.
the bible must not be offended
any expenses paid by the goverment and it should be considered a non-normal stance... nobody would think it was weird. but if it said

The Mosque should be protected by the goverment
the koran should not be offended
any expenses maid should be paid by the goverment and it should be considered a nob normal stance...nobody would accept it.

(this kinda stands in our lawbook (the first one)

[The Stranger]

unlike most so-called Christians, Muslims will generally take their religion seriously and hence will not tolerate having it degraded or defaced as Van Gogh has done

the man who killed Van Gogh was not a radical. he was merely standing by his Islamic beliefs.

oh he definitly was Radical but by no means a terrorist

[Ser Clegane]

perhaps "kill" is too extreme.

Perhaps??

[The Stranger]

hehehehe perhaps hehehehe hadnt noticed it before

[Fragony]

you know a lot of dutch people are such bitches (no offense on you Frag) cuz they were all screaming for freedom of speech and all. my cousins girlfriend once had a discusion at school...they were asking everyone what they thought about the murder...she said, I DONT REALLY CARE.

she got detention for a WEEK...everybody that said it wasnt fair got detention for a DAY....no great freedom of speech. the goverment wanted to stop subsidie (sp?) to a program cuz they were hosting a show that was telling the life of some people that were tossed out of Holland....nice freedom of speech.....they wanted to stop the VARA (TV) cuz it was tooo left.....nice freedom of speech.

i dont say it is good what MB did...i think it was very wrong....but the VAN GOGH was definitly wrong too...freedom of speech means saying things without hurting other people (atleast try, it cant be done always) but he was ordinary hurting people.....there was no speech but it was calling names...i'm not allowed to say all moslims are goatfuckers...i can say, i dont have sympathy for moslims or i dont like m or i dont like their thoughts..

you cant call the queen a Rich Ugly Bitch...but you can call other peoples god a Pig on a cloud...

i'd personally see him prosecuted instead of murdered...they were both wrong.

then you als got Hirsi Ali...i have sympathy for her, she's brave and she is doing it the right way. i cant find myself in everything she says but she does it clean and good.

Not only was Van Gogh not wrong, he was also very much right. The proof of his right was in his chest with a note on it. You can of course be oh so gentle with the gigantic toes of our beloved cultural enrichers but why would you. And you can call the queen a rich bitch, and you can call the prophet mohammed a goatfucker and a pedophile, that is our law. Personally I want him dead, but if they would allow me some playtime with this prick I will happily take it and get medieval with his medieval ways. Piece of backward shit murdering someone from the van Gogh family just he was to stupid to make it here But let's do the usual certainly don't represent as my hole thing and wait for the next casualty of islam.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Let me get this straight, Uenu. Were you opposed to him making the documentary that talked about the physical abuse against Muslim women, because to point that out hurts the feelings of Muslim men? Because that's why the guy murdered him, the muderer even said so.

Van Gogh was not standing up for Muslim women, in a flash he would have made something that made them out to be the absolute scum of the earth. Did this mean he deserved to be killed? No, but I can't see how so many people are surprised that some nutbag took the 'poor little film makers' work a little too personally.

Think back to the old school days.... every class/year/school had a real jerk in it. Not a bully, just someone who would win the yearbook award of total bastard hands down, if such an award existed. It's not like anyone would act surprised when the jerk ended up getting punched in the nose. Better still, think of Van Gogh as the equivalent of the forum troll (I'm sure you have encountered a few ), though I do admire him for having the courage of not hiding behind some form of anonymity... so many trolls only act that way only the internet as they are afraid of the idea of getting a real life punch in the face.... errr, I'm getting side tracked.

One dead, one (hopefully) jailed for a long time, no real loss to humanity, though a waste of life.

to describe Van Gogh's atrocity as a "documentary" is highly inaccurate and far too kind of a label, from what i have seen of it (a few clips)

i would say it is more akin to a snuff film rather than a documentary; and the victim of the snuff film being Islam itself

I can't believe I agree with you on something... actually, I can't believe your standing up for Islam. But you are right. About as much a documentary as anything made by Michael Moore.

To be honest, did Dutch society really take any notice of Van Gogh before he was killed?

[Don Corleone]

I've actually never seen the film, but left and right leaning media sources over here always describe it as a documentary detailing the misgony & physical abuse muslim women suffer and how the religion in some ways promotes it. Controversial, granted, but if it's accurate, it's a story that should be told.

[Fragony]

Yes Godspetmonkey, we did. Now he insulted a lot more people then muslims, and a whole lot worse, like Duisenberg's (very important euro figure) wife getting raped by arafat or the smell of fudge when the nazis burned the jews with diabetes, but they didn't slice his throat. But he was also a talented filmmaker, and a great collumnist and a fiery debater on dutch television. A public figure through and through, and also one of the most popular.

[Fragony]

I've actually never seen the film, but left and right leaning media sources over here always describe it as a documentary detailing the misgony & physical abuse muslim women suffer and how the religion in some ways promotes it. Controversial, granted, but if it's accurate, it's a story that should be told.

There you go, http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2655656?htv=12

now THAT WAS ALL

[GodsPetMonkey]

I've actually never seen the film, but left and right leaning media sources over here always describe it as a documentary detailing the misgony & physical abuse muslim women suffer and how the religion in some ways promotes it. Controversial, granted, but if it's accurate, it's a story that should be told.

No doubt it is an important story, no doubt it exists (and not only in Muslim sections of society, violence against women, especially in the family, is still one of the major ills of society). But it's little more then an attempt to put a legitimate face on something that would otherwise be labeled in a much nastier way. A shocking example of this tactic would be when people try to publish nude photos of children as art, but it remains quite clear what the real intention is. Okay, maybe to out landish an example, but the others I thought of would have caused some problems with the more religious patrons.

[Don Corleone]

I actually volunteer at battered women's shelters and preventing violence against women is a big issue for me.

So please do not take what I'm going to say the wrong way. Yes, the abuse against women in the West is appalling and we do not have sufficient laws in place to see that it is stopped. In my mind, if you beat your wife or your kids, you should do 10 years hard time (maximum security prison) minimum.

But, we pale in comparison to parts of the muslim world.

They have honor killings.
They stone rape victims to death.
Domestic violence isn't even a crime.
And, my apologies to the squeamish, in many areas, they circumsize their women after they come of age.

Stating these facts as facts is not an effort to do a hatchet job on Islam. But they need to be addressed. If THAT is what Van Gogh did in his documentary, then bravo. If he skewed facts and distorted reality to bash muslims, and just happened to use the issue of violence against women to do it, well then he should have been sued for libel, not stabbed to death in the street.