Odin - myth or fact?

**PseRamesses** · 07-14-2005, 12:43

During my research for the Fury of the Northmen mod (that never got released) I´ve read tons of books, visited zillions of sites and one thing that always intrigued me was the origins of the viking gods or "Asarna". Where they real life people or just mythological characters?
Take the depiction made by Snorre Sturlasson in his "Ynlingasaga". He describes how a tribal warlord named Oden left his home in Asgård in the country of Asaland or Asahem east of the river Tanakvist (Tanais=Don?). His motive for leaving his homeland was that being a foreseeing witchking he knew that his offspring where destine to rule the north expanses of the world. His castle was located somewhere in the vincinity of the Black Sea where he had large lands in "Turkaland" as Snorre states. So Odin and his people packed up and left fighting through Gårdarike (Russia) and Saxland (Germany) and up through Denmark (hence the city of Odense). After many adventures and escapades he ends up in Sigtuna (slightly northwest of Stockholm) where he built a grand court and held "blot".

On the other hand, according to old kingslists Odin was really a man called Sigge Fridulfsson who immigrated to Sweden around 100bc. and had a long row of successful sons:
Sigurlam - king of Russia, Weldeg - king of east saxland, Beldeg - king of West Pfalia, Sigge - king of the Franks, Skjöld - king of Denmark, Seminger - king of Norway, Gaute - king of the Götar, Yngve - king of the Turks, Thor who lived in Thrudvanger and finally Balder who lived in Breidablick.
Now, with theese accomplishments and with that family influence over the world there´s no wonder Odin and his sons got elevated into deities later on. This Empire of Odin could it be the lost Atlantis? Just speculative to get you going but the Egyptians, Greeks and later on the Romans all states that Scandinavia is an island, right?

When it comes to archaeological evidence there´s a sudden boom in greavefields and artefacts from this period 100bc - 300ad. so either a large immigration or a population boom is feasible. Odin was also the one who brought the runes to the people and spearheads with runes has been found on Gotland dating back to aleast 200ad. Many early finds on Gotland is so highly developed and bears resemblances to stonecutters in the middle-east. Some argue that the first stone cutters/ carvers actually came from the middle-east. Did Odin bring them with him?

**Franconicus** · 07-14-2005, 13:17

You think he is a historical person and was made god after his dead. Then it is in fact a myth

I read about Celtic and Red Indian gods. They seem to follow a certain pattern. They all have a god for their tribe only. He is seen as the godfather, all the members are his children. He has supreme properties and let the tribe to a new promised land. Sometimes his attributes are connected to animals. My theory is that these gods were originally real men, that formed the tribe and went to a new environment.

**Kraxis** · 07-14-2005, 17:22

You can't use those kinglists, they are an invention of the time of Danish and Swedish competition. They tried both to make their country older than the other, and so in the lack of proper sources, new kings were invented.

The oldest nordic king that we know of for sure is the Danish king Godfred that fought with Charlemagne with some success.

Odense in Denmark is highly like to have been named after Odin, but that does not make it certain to have been founded by one such character. Esbjerg is derived from Asebjerg which is in fact 'mound of the gods'. So unless it was a tribe that settled there it is merely a mythical name. Besides Esbjerg is not that old really, and neither is Odense, not if we are thinking of the 100BC period.
In general populations and migrations have originated in Scandinavia rather than ending up there. In fact the homeland of the Danes is the country around current Göteborg and some way inlands. From there they went into first Skåne, then the country of what appears to have been celtic tribes, the current Denmark.

I would not put too much credit to Snorre Sturlusson before the time of Gorm the Old, and even then most of the written accounts would likely to have been nearmythical by the time he wrote it (1200). The same can be said of Saxo Grammaticus.

It is far more likely that the gods were influenced by the Greek gods. It is possible to follow the spread of this sort of pantheon slowly up through Europe. Even after the invasion of the Danes the people venerated what we could call bog-gods. In that the local bog or swamp contained a local deity or protector, even forests have been mentioned, but we have no real finds so that is conjecture.

**IliaDN** · 07-14-2005, 18:43

1. You mentioned king of Russia, but Russia was formed in early medieval , and you speak of antic times;
2. You tell about Gardarika, but it is a name that was used in later centuries (in my opinion there was no such place in 100 B.C.)
3. About Atlants , there were antic historians who mentioned it long before the time period you describe, in my opinion ....

**caesar44** · 07-14-2005, 19:41

The unswear is..............myth

**King of Atlantis** · 07-15-2005, 03:44

Thor is an alien, so Odin might be a person.

(I watch to much stargate)

**PseRamesses** · 07-15-2005, 10:29

Originally Posted by IliaDN

1. You mentioned king of Russia, but Russia was formed in early medieval , and you speak of antic times;
2. You tell about Gardarika, but it is a name that was used in later centuries (in my opinion there was no such place in 100 B.C.)
3. About Atlants , there were antic historians who mentioned it long before the time period you describe, in my opinion ....

I was merley using known names for unknown places, ok?! Or do you have the proper name for Russia or Gårdarike from around 100bc-300ad? No, I don´t think so.

Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

Thor is an alien, so Odin might be a person.

That´s really constructive KoA, thx for joining a serious discussion with that remark.

Originally Posted by Kraxis

I would not put too much credit to Snorre Sturlusson before the time of Gorm the Old, and even then most of the written accounts would likely to have been nearmythical by the time he wrote it (1200). The same can be said of Saxo Grammaticus.
It is far more likely that the gods were influenced by the Greek gods. It is possible to follow the spread of this sort of pantheon slowly up through Europe. Even after the invasion of the Danes the people venerated what we could call bog-gods. In that the local bog or swamp contained a local deity or protector, even forests have been mentioned, but we have no real finds so that is conjecture.

At least Snorre didn´t have a political agenda, like Saxo Grammaticus had, when he wrote his stories. I also find it to be a belivable theory that "Asarna" are in fact wannabe Greek gods but since archaeological remains from this timeperiod are scarce we can only speculate. It´s just that I find it more than a coincidence that around 100bc artefacts, graves, settlements are turning up in an abundace, especially around Upsala, Sigtuna etc which coincide with the plausible arrivale of Odin in Sweden. Like a big jiggzaw one have to try a piece out and see if it fits with another, right?!

Originally Posted by Franconicus

I read about Celtic and Red Indian gods. They seem to follow a certain pattern. They all have a god for their tribe only. He is seen as the godfather, all the members are his children. He has supreme properties and let the tribe to a new promised land. Sometimes his attributes are connected to animals. My theory is that these gods were originally real men, that formed the tribe and went to a new environment.

This is really something that I belive to be the most plausible theory. You can take any civilization, at an early stage, and find individuals or mythological person that was later on deityfied. This is why I started this topic.