Medieval mod IV v4 beta: Path to Glory

[Aenlic]

Ok, here's my preliminary data for rulers for the factions you indicated above. It's just the basic info, as I'm not familiar enough to attmpe putting it into mod ready form.

Rulers:

Almoravid (E)

Amirs of the Almoravids:

Yusuf ibn Tashufin 1061-1106
Ali ibn Yusuf 1106-1142
Tashufin ibn Ali 1142-1146
Ibrahim ibn Tashufin 1146-1146
Ishaq ibn Ali 1146-1147

(Almohad caliphate replaces Almoravids in 1147)

Only found one historical hero for the Almoravids, and he's Catalan!

Compare Reverter, former viscount of Barcelona, after being captured by them, later led the Almoravid armies against the encroaching Almohads until his death in 1144.


Genoese (All 3)

This is going to be problematic. I know that you intend the Genoese to be a sort of Amalgam of the Italian states which weren't Venice; but the western Italian areas were about as unstable politically as it is possible to be. Genoa as an independent entity was really non-existent in the early period. It was a chartered commune, as was Pisa. There were no doges of Genoa until Simone Boccanegra in 1339. Pisa was a Ghibelline commune (supporters of the Holy Roman Emperor over the Papist Guelphs) until 1284, when it essentially switched back and forth between Ghibelline and Guelph communes. At the beginning of our Early era, the Margraves of Tuscany were women, the contessas Beatrice and Matilda; but I suppose you can use the other male margaves of Tuscany for Genoa in Early. The only other relatively stable countries in the area would be Savoy or Parma. They have good lists of leaders for the entire period. I think you'll have to make a choice between the Tuscan Margrave names or the Savoy and Parma counts, or just use generic Italian or Venetian names. Perhaps one of the members here, Fader_it, the maker of the fine Italy TW mod can help.



Outremer (H&L)

High:
(Kings of Cyprus and at times Jerusalem, who were nominal vassals of various Western European overlords in High and Late)

Hugh I 1205-1218
Henry I 1218-1253
Hugh II 1253-1267
Hugh III 1267-1284
John I 1284-1285
Henry II 1285-1324

(Outremer officially ends with the Mamluk capture of Acre in 1291 - the following are just Kings of Cyprus, after that)

Late:

Henry II 1285-1324
Hugh IV 1324-1359
Peter I 1359-1364
Peter II 1369-1382
James I 1382-1398
Janus I 1398-1432
James II 1432-1458



Bulgarian (H&L)

High:

Kalojan I 1197-1207
Boril I 1207-1218
John II 1218-1241
(period of short Mongol rule before they left to elect a new great Khan)
Kaloman I 1242-1246
Michael II 1246-1257
Kaloman II 1257-1258
(period of the pretenders) 1258-1279
John III 1279-1280
George I 1280-1292
Smilech 1292-1295
Tschaka 1295-1298
Theodore 1298-1322

Late:

Theodore 1298-1322
George II 1322-1323
Michael III 1323-1330
John IV 1330-1331
John V 1331-1371
John IV 1371-??
(Ottoman rule from 1385)



Chernigovian (E&H)

Early
(dates are not really possible here, many times the Chernigov Rus princes became the Grand Princes of all Kiev and vice versa generally fighting among themselves for the title of ruler of all Kiev, getting kicked out of their princely titles for a year or two, being restored, getting kicked out again, and then re-restored, etc.)

Oleg I

(prince of Chernigov, and given the patronomial Gorislavlichi - which means Son of Woe, for always losing. He contended with his Kiev cousins Sviatapolk and Vladimir Monomakh ((grandson of the Byzantine Monomachus)) for the throne of all Kiev. He invariably lost, his descendants, always also-ran contenders for the Kiev throne, were called Olgovichi and the Kiev rulers called Monomakhovichi. He did obtain help from the Cumans/Kipchaks to regain Chernigov from Vsevolod and Vladimir in 1078 lost it, regained it again in 1096, so he should be the first Early era ruler of Chernigov, I think. It seems better than Vsevolod for a year or two, then Oleg, then Vladimir, then Oleg again, then Vsevolod again)

Vsevolod I
Vladimir I
David
Yaroslav I
Vsevolod II
Vladimir II
Iziaslav I
Sviatoslav II
Oleg II
Sviatoslav III
Yaroslav II
Igor I
(subject of the great epic poem of Igor and his fights against his Kiev cousins and the Polovtsians (Cumans) and source of the Polovetsian Dances from Borodin's opera Prince Igor)
Oleg III

High

Vsevolod III
Rurik I
Gleb I
Mstislav II
Oleg IV
Michael I
Mstislav III
(Conquered by the Golden Horde in 1239)




Cuman (L)

For the Cumans, are you wanting the Cuman descended Wallachians? Or would you prefer to use older more Turkic style names from earlier Cuman rulers of various nomadic tribes on the northern shores of the Black Sea?

Cuman Princes of Wallachia after Tihomir I, Basarab is his son and the first official Prince of Wallachia.

Basarab 1310-1352
Nicholas 1352-1364
Vladislav I 1364-1372
Radu I 1372-1383
Dan I 1383-1386
Mircea I 1386-1393
(conquered by the Ottomans in 1393)

Older Cuman/Kipchak ruler's names:

Konchak
Togli
Kuntuvdi
Kotyan
Bortz (forebear of Tihomir I of Wallachia)

and my personal favorite, hands down the best name of any ruler:

Bonyak the Mangy Seriously, he ruled a Cuman/Kipchak tribe from 1096-1111

[WesW]

Ok, that's good work, Aenlic.
For the kings, I need the specific guys in power the year the campaign starts, though Hugh IV needs to be the guy for Outremer in Late. What need are some details about them, so that I can set their ability stats. Here is the entry and comments on one of the Swedish kings:

"Jedward", "Bonde", 1100, 4, 4, 6, 3, 6, mightywarrior2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Jarl and a knight templar. Very pious and highly heroic. Crusaded against the Finns. His son, Erik I (the holy), became king of Upland in 1150 and Swedish king in 1156.

For the other kings, well, I'm looking for the famous ones. Only a couple, if any, of the leaders listed will generally qualify.

As for the Genoese, their real name is the Genoese Confederacy, and represent the collection of independent states in northwestern Italy.
I would recommend finding famous rulers from Tuscany, Lombardy, Piedmont, and Liguria. Savoy only comes into the Italian scene in Late, iirc. You can use your best judgment on who to specify for the start of the campaigns.

As for the Cuman, I'm looking for remnants of the steppe tribes pushed out by the Mongols. However, anything you find out about the Wallachians can be used, as Bulgarian heroes if nothing else.

[Aenlic]

Ok, gotcha. Sorry about that. I misread the post and saw kings, but not famous kings. I'll dig further.

Also while looking at info for faction office titles, it seems to me that the Qadi al-Quda position in all of the Islamic factions should be used for the religious title that comes with a grand mosque rather than as the palace governor. The office of qadi is a religious position. For the Almoravids, the governor should be "Vali al-Maghrib" for the royal palace office title, since vali was the Almoravid title for governor. I'll look into some more for those

[Aenlic]

In the MM4_Heroes.txt, you'll need to move a couple of names further up the forenames list for the Almohads, so they can be used for the Almoravid king names. Tashufin and Ishaq are currently at 10 and 12 respectively, and should be higher for the Almoravids, since they were actually Almoravid kings. This would allow them to be used as famous kings as well.

The example you have was for heroes. Do you want the famous king info in the same manner, or as it will appear in the heroes.txt? For example, I can do the Almoravids as it will appear in the heroes text for kings instead. will this work?

FAMOUS_KINGS:: FN_ALMORAVID 4
//name,no.,c,d,p,a,portrait,vnv
1, 1, 4, 4, 5, 2, -1, attacker3 //Yusuf ibn Tashufin, the conqueror of Andalusia. Pledged to return to Morocco after helping the Andalusian taifas defeat the Christians and did so. Then, now under no oath, promptly returned with a bigger army and conquered the taifas and defeated multiple Christian armies to bring al-Andalus under Almoravids

2, 1, 1, 3, 5, 3, -1,builderking2 //Ali ibn Yusuf, not near as good a warrior as his father, preferred civilized pursuits to war, began new artistic and building boom

10, 1, 1, 1, 5, 1, -1, zealot3 //Tashufin ibn Ali persecuted Christians and Jews in his domain, as did his predecessors, but was much more vigorous at it, killed in battle

12, 1, 0, 1, 4, 1, -1, tyrant1 //Ishaq ibn Ali, brother of Tashufin, just as much a tyrant but had longer to practice it, lost the entire Almoravid empire to the Almohads while he was off in Spain carrying out a mini-jihad against the Christians and Jews.

Obviously, the 10 and 12 will need to be changed if you move the Almoravid forenames up the list.

Famous_Heroes:: FN_ALMORAVID 1
//forename,surname, date,c, d,p,a,l,vnv,TYPE,ID_REGION,portrait

"Compare", "Reverter", 1115, 4, 3, 1, 1, 2, mightywarrior3, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //The Compare Reverter, called 'al-Rubertayr' by the Almoravids, former viscount of Barcelona, was captured by them in 1132, later led the elite forces of the Almoravids in Morocco in defense against the Almohads. Killed in 1144, so I made his date 1115 so he'll appear after 1135.

That's it for the Almoravids, I'll try to find a couple more heroes for them and begin on the other factions.

[Aenlic]

I have an idea for the Genoese Confederacy, since it is proving difficult to find any rulers at all during the early era for any of the NW Italian states except for Savoy. At that time, Genoa was a commune/republic, as was Pisa, and most of the others. Piedmont was wholly owned by the Dukes of Savoy except for a brief period during the high era when it was ruled by a cadet branch of the Savoys. Lombardy as a state ceased to exist in 774 when the Franks annexed it. Liguria was really just Savona and Genoa. Tuscany and most of the others were ruled from the HRE or France as feudal properties, when they weren't outright populist communes or run by the church.

However, The Margraves of Montferrat might make an ideal choice for the Confederacy rulers in the early era. In southern Piedmont, this margraviate eventually produced Margave Boniface I, who organized and led the disastrous 4th Crusade, crowned himself King of Thessalonika, established the Duchy of Athens and the Principality of Achaea as his vassals states, and so annoyed the Venetians with his sheer competence that they decided someone more maleable would make a better Emperor of the Latins. He was then killed in battle by our High Era Bulgarian Tsar Kalojan in 1207.

Monferrat would fade after Boniface I, especially after the Pope excommunicated the entire 4th Crusade army for sacking Zara. At that point, Savoy was well on the way to establishing its power. They ruled Piedmont from 1046-1798, controlled much of NW Italy by proxy - including the Genoese later, one of the Dukes (Amadeus VI "The Peaceful") became the Antipope Felix V.

It's your call. But other than just using the Italian default names, which are really the Venetians, there isn't going to be a solution which uses names from Genoa, Piedmont, Tuscany, or any of the other states/counties of the former Lombardy or Liguria.

[Aenlic]

What king name lists are you using for the Bulgars, Chernigovians and Cumans?

The Bulgar names are more heavily influenced by the Cumans than the Vlach list which appears to just be the Hungarian list in the beta heroes.txt file. The name of the founding family of the second Bulgarian empire, Asen, seems to come directly from Cuman or at least some Turkic source; and perhaps even further back to the Ashina or Asena, the ruling clan of the Gokturk Empire of Khaganates in the 6th - 8th centuries, and possibly the source of much of the nobility for the Turkic nomads later, including the Cumans.

If I know which king list you're going to use for each era, then I can figure out the famous kings and heroes.

I've finished the Outremer famous kings and heroes, btw. 2 famous kings each for high and late eras, and multiple heroes.

[ToranagaSama]

Hello all,

TS had decided to give up on RTW and BI w/o even trying the Demo.

I did a fresh install of MTW, then VI, the Patch, then the MM's Graphics, Text and Map files.

Something must be wrong.

First is there only one MM era, the "Late" era, MM Late?

I prefer the starting on Early, so I did. Opened a Campaign as the Scilians and the Danes.

Sicilians:

Well, first on the parchment where you choose your faction, when Scilians is chosen, the map to the left, shows, two provinces grayed (the sicilian color). The island of Sicily of course, but there's a province in the middle of eastern europe that's also gray.

Once the Campaign opens, the little island to the right of Sicily, Malta, is missing, yet, My King is sitting where the island s/b, and there's a Port there as well. Where's the Island? [Did you give my island to those swamp dwellers in Venice?? ;) ]

Presuming this to be an correctible error, please, could we have the Sicilian King start the Campaign on Sicily, not on Malta. It makes no sense for the King NOT to begin in Sicily. All other Kings begin in their home province; and, more to the point it SEVERLY handicaps the Sicilians from the outset.

The Sicilian human player must waste an entire Turn, just to shuffle the King to Sicily where he s/b in the first place. Given the rather weak position of the Scilians, EVERY turn is crucial in the opening.

I imagine that this is particularly so for the AI playing as Sicily, it MUST be handicapped as well. I doubt and/or wonder if the AI is smart enough to recognize and move the King to Sicily.

More....

Ok, apparently Ruthenia is the province in the middle of eastern europe. I right-clicked on it and a parchment opens stating: Malta. Obviously, something has been transposed or something.

Also, I can move my Agents, Emissary and Princess, great distances to the following, select, provinces on the first turn, etc.:

Ruthenia, Epirus, Thrace, Liguria, Venice, Compania, Crete, Cyprus, and Egypt.

Is this intended?

Lastly, I moved my King to Ruthenia, prior to hitting End Turn, just to see if it would, indeed, go there; well, it would and I can't move him back to his starting position, the missing island of Malta. JFYI, Princes *come-to-age* and enter the game in Malta.

Oh, and I can't move a ship into the central Med, the area where Malta should be. This leaves *Malta* wide open to attack.

---

The Danes

Immediately, I notice that the Danes begin with a unit of "Chinese". This can't be correct??

More to come later....

[ToranagaSama]

BTW, I am able to build a Fort in Malta. The Fort appears in the correct place on the map. Rather amusing to see a Fort and no island.

Something else I noted,

I have completed a string of ships extending from the Straits of Sicily to the Straits of Gibralter. There are ports in Granada, Valencia, Corsica and Sardinia, to which I am exporting Tradeables.

There is also a port in Liguria, formerly Genoa (the Parchment reads Genoa, btw), from which I am NOT receiving any income from exporting Tradeables. I *presume* this to be an error???

Just an aside, the *gather point* for Malta is rather *fixed* all the stacks are right on top of one another.

[cutepuppy]

all your problems can be explained by the modded text files that you downloaded with MM 4. I'll try to explain it.
First the strange appearance of forts and ports in the middle of the sea. You should see the stratmap as consisting of 2 layers: a lower layer which is the 'geographical map' (the one that shows rivers, mountain ranges,...) and an upper layer, which is the 'strategical map' (used by the game engine). Every province on the strategic map is defined by a certain color set in a specific file (I think it's called lukupmap). Those colors are referred to in other files: campmap\startpos\early, high and late. And now comes the tricky part: wes modded the lukupmap and changed some colors. The original textfiles for early, high and late, however, still use the original color schemes. So due to the fact that the original province colors are changed, you can see malta in central europe instead of in the central mediterranean.

This change also causes the strange movement patterns of your agents: the game engine considers it as a logical move, but on the map, it seems very strange.

The weird name of your spearmen is explained by the fact that wes also modded the LOC\eng\names file, a text file used to display the names of all units, buildings and men on the parchments.

hope it helped a bit. I think you should live with that if you want to play both MM and the original game.

[ToranagaSama]

I do not want to play the orignal game! I haven't played Vanilla in a couple of years!!!

How do I fix things??

[ToranagaSama]

Hmmm.... I get it, only the late era. Right, I forgot, its the same as before.
I've never played the late era, seriously, maybe time to try.

[Aenlic]

We're in the midst of beta testing the new mod. For simplicity, that is just the late era for now. The final release will include all three eras. For now, as Wes works on various parts, the late era will be the only one available modded.

Many things are still changing, even in the late era campaign. But play as much as you like, and if you encounter any problems not already discussed in the above thread, then please post them here so Wes can check them out.

[bozkirsovalyesi]

I know small english - bad english but know many turks history - good turks history.

Bonyak the Mangy Seriously, he ruled a Cuman/Kipchak tribe from 1096-1111

real name: benek = spot .......

but old tuks give "bad name" new born baby. protect for cause misfortune by the evil eye...

walachia and 2. bulgaria dinasty cuman ... ok.
but faction ve cultur rumanian and slav. these not cuman factions.


cumans (meaning)
turkish: kuman = blond or brown or pale
russian: polovtsi = blond or brown
germans: fallben = blond
armenian: xartes = blond

(many beautiful humans to be grumble... east and west bibliography)


kuman kings (han=king)

boluş.................... (fame: 1055)
sakal or iskal ...........(fame: 1061)
benek or bonyak .......(fame: 1090-1091)
togurhan ................(fame: 1090-1091)
sarıhan ..................(fame: 1090-1110)
altınoba ..................(fame: 1090_1110)
uzluk or osuluk .........(fame: 1094??)
küre.......................(fame: 1096)
atrak .....................(fame: 1118-1125 but to be before and thereafter is ???)
kobyak....................(fame: 1169-1180's ?)
konçak ...................(fame: 1169 or 1170 - after 1185 thereafter is 1190's to be ??)
yuriy .....................(fame: 1222) (konçak son... christian han) name not turkish
danil .....................(fame: 1222-1223) (kebek son ... christian han) name not turkish
kotyan ..................(fame: 1223)
bastı......................(fame: 1223) (christian..????)
borç ......................(fame: 1233)
köten or kotyan.........(fame: 1239-1241 but to be before)


kumans to be federation...

kuman federation:
1- middle asia group (north turkistan)
2- volga-ural group
3- donetz-don group
4- lower dnyepr group
5- tuna gorup


zone names:
don - dnyepr distance = LEVEDİA (hungar leader "Lebedi" names)
don-donetz distance = ETELKÖZ ( rivers distance)
Dnyeper-Dnyester rivers lower basins = ÖZİ (mean: dnyepr)




kuman cityes:

notheast caucasia:
Belencer ( in dagıstan caucas mountain hillside)
Semender (in coast)
Derbent (in coast)

Kuban rives mouth ...
Tmutorokan ....(Taman Tarhan names), ,

Volga delta:
or Sarıgşın = "white city"
Han-balıg = "king city"

ural river coast:
Saksin .............(kumans kapital)

Don river coast:
Sarkel

crimea:
Sugdak



important kuman tribes name:

uzur
alpar
tolun
kıpçak
kanglı
yimek
uran
yuğur


kuman forenames:

itler, kıtan, kubasar, kutlu arslan, Sevinç, İlDeniz, oldamur, Aybeg, Kutuz, Baybars, Kalavun, Balaban, bolsun, borçuk,
Asen, Toktemir, Basaraba, Altınaba, Tomuzaba, Itaba, Arslanaba,
Akbaş, Akkuş, Bozdogan, Bilik, Berendey, Barak, Bars, Buga, Belçir, Kara, Kızıl, Kazan, Şişman, Temirtaş, Tok, Ötemiş, balık, Dobrotiç, buldur, bulmaz,
Berkiş, Kara, Buğa, Çolpan, Toluntay, Payandur, Tuttarkan (Tutrakan)

bibliography: Laszlo Rasonyi "history in turks"




general tuks names: (turks for complete)
men names=erkek adları (blue)
women names=kız adları (red)
(*) marked names both men and women names.

http://www.tonyukuk.net/adlar.htm

[Aenlic]

Great infomation! Thanks. I had the Anglicized version of those names, such as Konchak and Bortz. Your information is much more complete.

The difficulty is that the Cumans ceased to exist as a usable faction prior to the MTW Late era, as the list shows, sometime in the middle of the High era. That is why I brought up using the Cuman line which founded the principality of Wallachia. It is closer in time to when Wes is using the Cumans.

That's a great list of names, too. I now have it bookmarked in my favorites list. Thank you, Bozkirsovalyesi!

I think Bonyak or Benek would make an ideal famous hero for the Cumans. So would Konchak or Konçak, since he figures so prominently in the epic poem Song of Igor.

Wes, I've located some information for more famous heroes for the other factions you listed. One of the best names yet, Vseslav the Werewolf, who apparently invaded Novgorod from Polotsk and ruled for about a year before being kicked out in 1069. But he lived until 1101, so just by name alone, seems to make a great famous hero in the early era for the Novgorods. I'm waiting until I hear whether or not the format in which I posted the Almoravid info is what you want, though.

[torguskhan]

for a long time the cuman capital was astrakhan on the volga river delta that flows into the caspian sea. it was destroyed in 1237 by the mongol hordes. one famous cuman khan was khotyan khan. he and his family were massacred by the hungarians. hope that helps. bachman was one of the most famous cuman generals was bachman. he was killed by mongols the same year. is was once a scythian city, passed on to the pechnegs, other steppe tribes then finally conquered by the cumans

[SicilianVespers]

Wes,
At the start of the Late era, the proper Kingdom of Sicily (Sicily, Malta, & Duchy of Athens) should be independent of Aragon. Our Kings were drawn from a junior branch of the Aragonese house, but we were a seperate Kingdom, in opposition to Angevin Naples (which was a junior branch of the French ruling house).

I think it would be better to have the true Sicilian faction in Sicily, with a French controlled Naples, as they were the usurpers called in by the Pope.

Federico III, who was king in 1320, was the heir of the Norman and Hohenstaufen thru the female line. The Sicilians should be trying to recapture S. Italy from the French, not the other way around.

As such, the Sicilians should still have access to any Catalan units, Almughavars, Jinets, etc, in addition to Sicilian Feudal Knights, etc.

In the event you don't want to change this, I would suggest taking Sicilian Knights away from the Angevins (give them French Knights), and allowing the Aragonese to build them in Sicily. In this Case the Aragonese should properly be renamed to the Catalans, with Aragon and Sicily being seperate Kingdoms in the Catalan confederation. Sicily would then be "Homeland" for the Catalans. It was the Sicilian Barons that conquered Sardinia for the Aragonese house, and Aragon-Sicily can't even build them.

Either way the Sicilians, as represented in the current beta, should be renamed to the Angevins. There is nothing Sicilian about them, except their usurped crown.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, that wasn't my intention. I was just very dissapointed when I saw the setup.

I am going on vacation for two weeks, so you won't see any replies from me for a while.

[bozkirsovalyesi]

QUOTE]I'm waiting until I hear whether or not the format in which I posted the Almoravid info is what you want, though.[/QUOTE]

Almoravids .... morocco history. my not information.

look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almoravid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad

[Belisario]

Hello boys! This is my first post and my english is rather bad (I´m from Spain). I want help with this list of almoravid and almohad generals because I like very much the Medmod project.

-Sir ibn Abi Bakr: almoravid general that conquered Seville in 1091 and that was his governor until 1114.

-Abu Bakr al-Latmuni: almoravid general, nephew and son-in-law of the emperor Yusuf ibn Tasufin (1061-1106).

-Tamim ibn Yusuf: almoravid governor of al-Andalus since 1107. He defeated the castilians in the battle of Uclés (1108).

-'Azzun ibn Galbun: andalusian allied of the almoravids. He participated in the battle of Cutanda (1120): Alfons I of Aragón defeated the almoravids. The 'Azzun son's were important governors under the almohads:
a) Abu'l-Gamr ibn 'Azzun: Governor of Jaén and outstanding defending of Córdoba during the castilian siege of 1150. Died in battle in 1158.
b) 'Ali ibn 'Azzun: Governor of Ronda. He and his sons were outstandings members of the almohad administration.

-'Ali ibn Ghaniya: almoravid ruler of the Balearic Islands in the second half of the twelve century. He and his brother Yahya attacked in 1184 the coast of Algeria challenging the almohads. With the support of some berber and arab tribes of Tunisia and Cirenaica conquered several cities in the coast of Algeria and in Ifriqiyya (Tunisia). In 1187 'Ali was injured in battle and he was forced to retreat to the desert.

-Yahya ibn Ghaniya: Almoravid. He was brother of the previous. He conquered the main part of Ifriqiyya (1198-1200) and the citie of Tunisia in 1203. In this year the almohads conquered the Balearic Islands and began the reconquest of Ifriqiyya. Yahya was defeated and he retreated to the desert. Until his dead in 1233 Yahya was a constant threat for the last almohad caliphs.

-Muhammad ibn Mardanish, the Wolf King of Murcia: Andalusian ruler of Valencia and Murcia. The spanish region of Levante was inaccesible for the almohads during his life. He died in 1172.

-Sayyid Abu Zayd: almohad general of the caliph Abu Yusuf Ya'qub al-Mansur (1184-1199). He recovered a big part of the territories conquered by 'Ali ibn Ghaniya in the east of the Caliphate.

-Abu Muhammad Abd al-Wahid: excellent almohad general of the caliphs Abu Yusuf Ya'qub (1184-1199) and Muhammad al-Nasir (1199-1213). He participated in the victory of Alarcos (1195) and in the campaigns against Yahya ibn Ghaniya in Ifriqiyya.

-Abu Sa'id ibn Djami: almohad visir of the caliph Muhammad al-Nasir (1199-1213). He commanded the rear of the almohad army in the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa (1212) and was defeated by the christians.

I'm sorry, but I don't know the dates of the birth and dead of the main part of this generals. Goodbye!

[Aenlic]

Wonderful information, Belisario! I'm sure Wes can use those names for Almoravid and Almohad heroes. They are perfect.

In what part of Spain do you live? My mother's parents were born in Granada and Seville and emigrated to the U.S. via Hawaii in 1910; although, sadly, I do not speak much Spanish at all. It is a pleasure to hear from you!

[ToranagaSama]

Noticed this a few days ago, but forgot to post:

The Sicilian province of Apulia has a *Govenorship* entitled the "Count of Toranto". I take this is not as it should be?

[Aenlic]

I believe it's intentional. Taranto is a city in Apulia, but during the MTW time period it was a principality under the Norman lords of Sicily. The first prince of Norman Taranto, Bohemond, was the son of Robert Guiscard, the founder of the Norman Kingdon of Sicily. Bohemond was granted Taranto and essentially the entire "heel" of Italy after Robert repudiated Bohemond's mother and took as his second wife, Sikelgaita, the daughter of the Lombard prince of Sicily which he'd just conquered. Robert's son by his second wife became his heir, Roger I, King of of Sicily. Bohemond was also later Prince of Antioch after the First Crusade.

[Big_John]

i encountered a ctd in 1338 with the danes. using godmode, i was able to determine that it's not something that was being built. i couldn't figure out the cause of the crash, it happens as soon as i hit the end-turn button. so far, this has just happened once (i've played several other games past that year).

also, i noticed that dauphine has spices and ivory as trade goods, is this intentional?

[Greeny]

There seems to be a bug with the crusade AI and the new provinces. I built a crusade in Franconia and lauched it at Gotland but now the crusade is stuck in Franconia and wont let me move it into any other province.

[Aenlic]

Is there a path to Gotland? For the Crusade to get there, there must be a port on your side of the water, a port in Gotland, and ships of your own faction in the each of the sea provinces from your port to the Gotland port. If there isn't a path, then the game AI can't plot possible paths for the Crusade and it'll just sit there in the starting province until a path becomes available. Once a path is clear, then you'll begin to see options for adjacent provinces. If there is a path, then there is a bug for Wes to hunt down.

[Belisario]

Aenlic I'm from Galicia in the northwest of Spain. I'll try help you with my knowledges. I read a book on the norman kingdom of Sicilia and can post some heroes for this faction. I'll explain my notes and tomorrow I'll post a list.
Goodbye!

[Greeny]

Is there a path to Gotland? For the Crusade to get there, there must be a port on your side of the water, a port in Gotland, and ships of your own faction in the each of the sea provinces from your port to the Gotland port. If there isn't a path, then the game AI can't plot possible paths for the Crusade and it'll just sit there in the starting province until a path becomes available. Once a path is clear, then you'll begin to see options for adjacent provinces. If there is a path, then there is a bug for Wes to hunt down.

AH, your right, I assumed there was a land bridge between Sweden and Gotland. My bad .

[SicilianVespers]

I believe it's intentional. Taranto is a city in Apulia, but during the MTW time period it was a principality under the Norman lords of Sicily. The first prince of Norman Taranto, Bohemond, was the son of Robert Guiscard, the founder of the Norman Kingdon of Sicily. Bohemond was granted Taranto and essentially the entire "heel" of Italy after Robert repudiated Bohemond's mother and took as his second wife, Sikelgaita, the daughter of the Lombard prince of Sicily which he'd just conquered. Robert's son by his second wife became his heir, Roger I, King of of Sicily. Bohemond was also later Prince of Antioch after the First Crusade.

Roger I "the Great" was the son of Robert Guiscard's brother, the "Great Count" Roger.

After Guiscards death, Roger "Borsa" became the 2nd Duke of Apulia. He was forced to grant Bohemund the Principality of Taranto, after Bohemund 's rebellion.

Roger "Borsa" of Apulia and Roger "the Great" of Sicily are two different people, but they were cousins.

The Proper title for southern Italy should be Duke of Apulia, which includes the Principality of Salerno, and the Principality of Taranto.

The title in the Campania should be the Prince of Capua.

The Duchy of Apulia was always held by the heir to the throne, similar to the Prince of Wales in Great Britain.

In the early years of the Kingdom the Roger II's son Roger (would have been the III if he had not died before his father) was Duke of Apulia, While, his second son Alfonso was the Prince of Capua.

In my mods I usually create them as heroes, rather than heirs, because the died before their father. This was William I will succeed.

Another possible hero wouls be Enrico Aleramici, the brother of Adelaide (Roger II's uncle, a father figure after Roger I died). He was the Count of Butera in Sicily. Very powerful in Sicily, his son was Simone Aleramici.

I already provided all this information to Wes.

If any information on Sicily is needed, please let me know...

[ToranagaSama]

Well, played extensively last night, here are my observations, generally, in the order I encountered them, MM Late Era, Sicily:


a)

x. Wargalley has support cost of 20; Gungalley has support cost of 13. Seems like it s/b the reverse.

xx. The Parchment for the Constable's Palace states that building it will give "+2 Command". In reality, you get +2 Acumen and +2 Loyalty. (Gosh, I waited all that time expecting the 2 stars!) What's it supposed to be?

The conflict continues in that the benefit of +2 Acumen is not effected. The province did not receive the added economic boost that +2 Acumen should provide. There was nothing additional in my observation over several Turns.

One can only presume that the Loyalty benefit is not being effected as well. Though, the interesting thing to discern is whether the Parchment stated +2 Command is being effected??


b) Tunisia:

What's the reasoning for removing the Gold resource from Tunisia. I understand the reasoning in weakening the costal powers, but I don't think this province s/b included. It only had Gold. No Tradeables.

Without the Gold resource, there's little incentive to take this provence. While, its the natural place for the Sicilians to extend. Virtually everyone else in the Med they are Trading with and/or are just too strong and/or costly to fight.


c) This may be the intended design, if so please inform; but I've encountered the situation when taking a province, sieging, and letting the castle fall, rather than taking the castle, I cannot Train units!!

I cannot seem to be capable of Training units in Sardinia or Corsica. No matter what buildings I build. The icon to click in order to build *units* is not there. The icon for building buildings is there.

The situation is the same for Cordoba, which I've recently taken.


d) Also, I've taken Cordoba while the Scots hold Old and New Castille, Portugal, Leon, and Al-Gharg. I do not see ANY Scottish ships in any sea zones, there's certainly none in the sea zones surrounding the Spainish pennisula. Yet, the Scots can move troops into the Spanish provinces. FYI, Aquataine is held by the French, and Aragon by the Venitians.

So, how are the Scots able to move troops w/o ships and w/o holding Aquataine and/or Aragon?

Maybe the units are coming from one or more of the Spanish provinces, BUT, when game is doing the *Tour*, stacks are flying down from the North over the Costa Verde. Seems strange.


P.S., I've finally begun to enounter Scotch ships. The first I saw was a single ship sitting in the Atlantic Ocean doing much of nothing for quite some time. Yet there are NO other Scotch ships ANYWHERE! not even in the English channel where they would be expected.

Soooo, HOW are the Scotch managing to travel from the British Isles????? I have a screenshot, if anyone wants to see it. Additionally, there are NO ships from any Northern European faction whatsoever in the Atlantic, nor any of the nothern seas. The year is 1430.

The Scotch have somehow managed to put an additional couple of ships in the water. This ships ***appeared*** in the Med off the Spanish coast. The Scotch have NO Med provinces and I did not note ANY ships moving from the Atlantic into the Med. These ships simply appeared.

The Scotch ship attacked my ship off the coast of Cordoba, obviously in an effort to isolate my troops in Cordoba. Sometimes the AI acts so damned intelligent!! W/O that ship, no reinforcements and the Scotch could steadily wittle down my troops in Cordoba. Excellent move by the AI.

Unfortunately, it was weak. I had a Gun Galley, the AI had a War Galley. I win. I think the Scotch tried again, with a ship simply appearing. Same result.


e) General observation of Campaign Development:

I found my game to be dominated by the Venitians/Italians and the Byz. The Byz took over the Black Sea provinces and virtually the entire eastern Med. provinces.

While the Venitians/Italians took over the virtually the entire western Med. provinces.

There was little exception, 95% or better, of the provinces surrounding the Med and the Black Sear were held by one or the other.

P.S., shortly after making the above observation ("e"), BAM! It appears the game-code kicked that hits a faction that has expanded faster than the game-code thinks it should(?). The Venitians/Italians have expanded so extensively, that roughly 75% or better of the Med coastline is GREEN!

Well, the game-code smacked them bad. Suddenly, just like that they are hit with mutliple rebellions all over. It was truly *interesting* to witness so vividly what Org members have been whinning about since MTW's release.

Its to be noted, that more than 50% of the Venitian/Italian provinces had VERY small garrisons. While at the same time there were mutlipe stacks, varying each turn between, 3,4, or 5, full stacks in and around Venice and Verona. Particularly, Verona was *very* often under attack. The entire **immediate** region surround the two was in constant turmoil.

Summing up: The Venitian/Italians, imo, appeared to have expanded much in the manner of a human *warmongering* type player, expanding as quickly as possible. At one point, they held every Med coastline province from, Provence to the furtherest Egytian province (forget name), and, if I recall correctly, also the two island beyond Sicily, Crete and the other (forget name). The Byz now hold the three farthest Egyptian provinces.

I, on the other hand, hold the starting Sicilian provences, along with Sardinia, Corsica and Cordoba. I held Al-Gharb for a moment before being overwhelmed by the AI in a big battle where the AI reinforcements just keep comming.

Playing the Late Era, this is my first time to any extensive degree, is quite different than from Early. Playing the MM Late Era (beta) is certainly challenging as the Scilians.

It's mostly a *survival* game, as the Sicilians ("S") are simply too weak and poor to attack anybody. It'd be suicide. The first priority is to get a strong army into Campania to ward off attack by the Papacy. A little butt whopping and the Pope will stop comming. So the slightest sign of weakness and here he comes again.

After accomplishing that, you've got to get your economy going and get ships in the water, not just for trade, but to control the *Lugarian Sea*! In this way the Genoans are cut off from Corsica and Sardinai. Then, these provinces are easily taken as the Genoans cannot reinforce.

Lastly, both the Venitians and Byz have relatively large fleets of ships. In fact, both have a virtually FULL stack of ships, in addition to string of hips around the Med and Black Sea, respectively. No other faction, including my Sicilians, have mutliple ship stacks. Big imbalance! Though, of course, the AI isn't taking advantage of the imbalance.

A FULL stack, if the AI were a human, each could wipe the seas of all competing ships, before a final showdown!!

In closing, I don't have much experience playing the Late Era, so I have no prior barometer to judge, but I wonder how much of this behaviour is intentional. To what degree its typical of the Late Era, or the result of the MM?

[the P.S. comments were added to the original.]

[Belisario]

Hello! I make a new list of names for the sicilians. I collected this names of the book of Salvatore Tramontana, "La monarchia normanna e sveva", UTET, Torino, 1994.

// sicilian_forenames
ADD_FORENAMES::
"Ruggero"
"Guglielmo"
"Tancredi" //Only First 3 are names of norman kings of Sicily
"Roberto"
"Simone"
"Goffredo"
"Boemondo"
"Umfredo" //Last 5 names are names of norman princes of d'Altavilla family

"Abelardo"
"Alfano"
"Amato"
"Amico"
"Andrea"
"Argiro"
"Arisgoto"
"Arnolino"
"Asclettino"
"Atenolfo"
"Azzolino"
"Boemondo"
"Bonizone"
"Bosone"
"Drogone"
"Enrico"
"Falcone"
"Filippo"
"Filigato"
"Francesco"
"Gentile"
"Germano"
"Giacomo"
"Gilberto"
"Giordano"
"Giorgio"
"Giovanni"
"Girardo"
"Gisulfo"
"Giuseppe"
"Goffredo"
"Guaimario"
"Gualtiero"
"Guglielmo"
"Grimoaldo"
"Ingelmaro"
"Landone"
"Leone"
"Luca"
"Maione"
"Margarito"
"Martino"
"Matteo"
"Melo"
"Nicola"
"Oddone"
"Pandolfo"
"Paolo"
"Pietro"
"Rainulfo"
"Riccardo"
"Rinaldo"
"Roberto"
"Rodolfo"
"Roffredo"
"Romualdo"
"Ruggero"
"Serlone"
"Silvestro"
"Simone"
"Stefano"
"Taddeo"
"Tancredi"
"Tebaldo"
"Tommaso"
"Tristano"
"Ugo"
"Umfredo"
//german forenames in Sicily: high period
//"Bertoldo"
//"Corrado"
//"Ditpoldo"
//"Federico"
//"Liutfrido"
//"Manfredi"
//"Markwaldo"

// Sicilian_surnames
ADD_SURNAMES::
"d'Altavilla" //italian form of "de Hauteville"

"Arenga"
"Aristippo"
"Avenel"
"Bonello"
"Borsa"
"Braccio di Ferro" //Iron arm
"Buatère"
"Capodiferro" //Iron head
"Drengot"
"Emiro"
"l'Eunuco"
"Falcando"
"Guarna"
"Guiscardo"
"Malaterra"
"Quarrel"
"Palmer"
"Ridel"
"Sclavo"
"Tutobovi"

"d'Acerenza"
"d'Acerra"
"d'Ajello"
"d'Alife"
"d'Altavilla"
"d'Andria"
"d'Antiochia"
"dell'Aquila"
"d'Ariano"
"d'Avellino"
"d'Aversa"
"d'Offamil"

"di Bari"
"di Benevento"
"di Brindisi"
"di Calabria"
"di Capua"
"di Castrogiovanni"
"di Catanzaro"
"di Conversano"
"di Fasanella"
"di Gaeta"
"di Gerace"
"di Giovinazzo"
"di Gravina"
"di Lauria"
"di Lecce"
"di Loretello"
"di Mahdia"
"di Marsico"
"di Matera"
"di Messina"
"di Molise"
"di Montecassino"
"di Montenero"
"di Montepeloso"
"di Monte Sant'Angelo"
"di Montescaglioso"
"di Perche"
"di Puglia"
"di Rupecanina"
"di Salerno"
"di San Severino"
"di Taranto"
"di Tarsia"
//german surnames in sicily: high period
//"di Hohenstaufen" //royal surname; italian form of "von Hohenstaufen"
//"di Annweiler"
//"di Kalden"
//"di Kuensberg"
//"di Luetzelinhard"
//"di Urslingen"
//"di Vohburg"

// sicilian_princesses
ADD_PRINCESS::
"Adelasia"
"Alberada"
"Costanza"
"Emma"
"Eremburga"
"Giovanna"
"Giuditta"
"Margherita"
"Maximilla"
"Sichelgaita"

// sicilian forenames
["Ruggero"] {"Ruggero"}
["Guglielmo"] {"Guglielmo"}
["Tancredi"] {"Tancredi"}
["Roberto"] {"Roberto"}
["Simone"] {"Simone"}
["Goffredo"] {"Goffredo"}
["Boemondo"] {"Boemondo"}
["Umfredo"] {"Umfredo"}

["Abelardo"] {"Abelardo"}
["Alfano"] {"Alfano"}
["Amato"] {"Amato"}
["Amico"] {"Amico"}
["Andrea"] {"Andrea"}
["Argiro"] {"Argiro"}
["Arisgoto"] {"Arisgoto"}
["Arnolino"] {"Arnolino"}
["Asclettino"] {"Asclettino"}
["Atenolfo"] {"Atenolfo"}
["Azzolino"] {"Azzolino"}
["Boemondo"] {"Boemondo"}
["Bonizone"] {"Bonizone"}
["Bosone"] {"Bosone"}
["Drogone"] {"Drogone"}
["Enrico"] {"Enrico"}
["Falcone"] {"Falcone"}
["Filippo"] {"Filippo"}
["Filigato"] {"Filigato"}
["Francesco"] {"Francesco"}
["Gentile"] {"Gentile"}
["Germano"] {"Germano"}
["Giacomo"] {"Giacomo"}
["Gilberto"] {"Gilberto"}
["Giordano"] {"Giordano"}
["Giorgio"] {"Giorgio"}
["Giovanni"] {"Giovanni"}
["Girardo"] {"Girardo"}
["Gisulfo"] {"Gisulfo"}
["Giuseppe"] {"Giuseppe"}
["Goffredo"] {"Goffredo"}
["Guaimario"] {"Guaimario"}
["Gualtiero"] {"Gualtiero"}
["Guglielmo"] {"Guglielmo"}
["Grimoaldo"] {"Grimoaldo"}
["Ingelmaro"] {"Ingelmaro"}
["Landone"] {"Landone"}
["Leone"] {"Leone"}
["Luca"] {"Luca"}
["Maione"] {"Maione"}
["Margarito"] {"Margarito"}
["Martino"] {"Martino"}
["Matteo"] {"Matteo"}
["Melo"] {"Melo"}
["Nicola"] {"Nicola"}
["Oddone"] {"Oddone"}
["Pandolfo"] {"Pandolfo"}
["Paolo"] {"Paolo"}
["Pietro"] {"Pietro"}
["Rainulfo"] {"Rainulfo"}
["Riccardo"] {"Riccardo"}
["Rinaldo"] {"Rinaldo"}
["Roberto"] {"Roberto"}
["Rodolfo"] {"Rodolfo"}
["Roffredo"] {"Roffredo"}
["Romualdo"] {"Romualdo"}
["Ruggero"] {"Ruggero"}
["Serlone"] {"Serlone"}
["Silvestro"] {"Silvestro"}
["Simone"] {"Simone"}
["Stefano"] {"Stefano"}
["Taddeo"] {"Taddeo"}
["Tancredi"] {"Tancredi"}
["Tebaldo"] {"Tebaldo"}
["Tommaso"] {"Tommaso"}
["Tristano"] {"Tristano"}
["Ugo"] {"Ugo"}
["Umfredo"] {"Umfredo"}
//german forenames in Sicily: high period
["Bertoldo"] {"Bertoldo"}
["Corrado"] {"Corrado"}
["Ditpoldo"] {"Ditpoldo"}
["Federico"] {"Federico"}
["Liutfrido"] {"Liutfrido"}
["Manfredi"] {"Manfredi"}
["Markwaldo"] {"Markwaldo"}

// Sicilian_surnames
["d'Altavilla"] {"d'Altavilla"}

["Arenga"] {"Arenga"}
["Aristippo"] {"Aristippo"}
["Avenel"] {"Avenel"}
["Bonello"] {"Bonello"}
["Borsa"] {"Borsa"}
["Braccio di Ferro"] {"Braccio di Ferro"}
["Buatère"] {"Buatère"}
["Capodiferro"] {"Capodiferro"}
["Drengot"] {"Drengot"}
["Emiro"] {"Emiro"}
["l'Eunuco"] {"l'Eunuco"}
["Falcando"] {"Falcando"}
["Guarna"] {"Guarna"}
["Guiscardo"] {"Guiscardo"}
["Malaterra"] {"Malaterra"}
["Quarrel"] {"Quarrel"}
["Palmer"] {"Palmer"}
["Ridel"] {"Ridel"}
["Sclavo"] {"Sclavo"}
["Tutobovi"] {"Tutobovi"}

["d'Acerenza"] {"d'Acerenza"}
["d'Acerra"] {"d'Acerra"}
["d'Ajello"] {"d'Ajello"}
["d'Alife"] {"d'Alife"}
["d'Altavilla"] {"d'Altavilla"}
["d'Andria"] {"d'Andria"}
["d'Antiochia"] {"d'Antiochia"}
["dell'Aquila"] {"dell'Aquila"}
["d'Ariano"] {"d'Ariano"}
["d'Avellino"] {"d'Avellino"}
["d'Aversa"] {"d'Aversa"}
["d'Offamil"] {"d'Offamil"}

["di Bari"] {"di Bari"}
["di Benevento"] {"di Benevento"}
["di Brindisi"] {"di Brindisi"}
["di Calabria"] {"di Calabria"}
["di Capua"] {"di Capua"}
["di Castrogiovanni"] {"di Castrogiovanni"}
["di Catanzaro"] {"di Catanzaro"}
["di Conversano"] {"di Conversano"}
["di Fasanella"] {"di Fasanella"}
["di Gaeta"] {"di Gaeta"}
["di Gerace"] {"di Gerace"}
["di Giovinazzo"] {"di Giovinazzo"}
["di Gravina"] {"di Gravina"}
["di Lauria"] {"di Lauria"}
["di Lecce"] {"di Lecce"}
["di Loretello"] {"di Loretello"}
["di Mahdia"] {"di Mahdia"}
["di Marsico"] {"di Marsico"}
["di Matera"] {"di Matera"}
["di Messina"] {"di Messina"}
["di Molise"] {"di Molise"}
["di Montecassino"] {"di Montecassino"}
["di Montenero"] {"di Montenero"}
["di Montepeloso"] {"di Montepeloso"}
["di Monte Sant'Angelo"] {"di Monte Sant'Angelo"}
["di Montescaglioso"] {"di Montescaglioso"}
["di Perche"] {"di Perche"}
["di Puglia"] {"di Puglia"}
["di Rupecanina"] {"di Rupecanina"}
["di Salerno"] {"di Salerno"}
["di San Severino"] {"di San Severino"}
["di Taranto"] {"di Taranto"}
["di Tarsia"] {"di Tarsia"}
//german surnames in sicily: high period
["di Hohenstaufen"] {"di Hohenstaufen"}
["di Annweiler"] {"di Annweiler"}
["di Kalden"] {"di Kalden"}
["di Kuensberg"] {"di Kuensberg"}
["di Luetzelinhard"] {"di Luetzelinhard"}
["di Urslingen"] {"di Urslingen"}
["di Vohburg"] {"di Vohburg"}

// sicilian_princesses
["Adelasia"] {"Adelasia"}
["Alberada"] {"Alberada"}
["Costanza"] {"Costanza"}
["Emma"] {"Emma"}
["Eremburga"] {"Eremburga"}
["Giovanna"] {"Giovanna"}
["Giuditta"] {"Giuditta"}
["Margherita"] {"Margherita"}
["Maximilla"] {"Maximilla"}
["Sichelgaita"] {"Sichelgaita"}

I hope you will like.

[Aenlic]

Very nice, Belisario! May I use these in my own personal mod? I've been looking for things like this.