Teacher Seduces Pupil - Too Pretty for Jail?

[Proletariat]

Of course she should lose her job! It isn't like she was acting ethical. And she should face criminal charges, she was flat out wrong. For her 'victim' wrong was very right at that time, more of a conquerer then a victim really but the teacher should never be able to teach again unless I'm her pupil, and she should be punnished for what she did. Still beats me that he went to the police instead of his friends.

His Mother over heard him bragging to his friends on the phone, iirc. She pursued the charges.

[Byzantine Prince]

His Mother over heard him bragging to his friends on the phone, iirc. She pursued the charges.

Oooo, I think someone was jealous.

[Xiahou]

Let´s all say it together: sex is a good thing. Yes, sex is a good thing. It is perfectly normal for a 14-year old to begin seeking sexual experiences. A 14-year old having sex is not a bad thing. The reason we need laws against sex with minors is not that minors shouldn`t have sex but that if you have a sexual relation between an adult and a minor, it becomes doubtful whether the adult has not used subtle means of force. Now, the teacher acted certainly immoral because she was in a position of authority, but given her looks and her age we should give her the bnefit of the doubt that this sex was indeed consensual, and not the result of any form of force.

Well, I was with you for the first 3 sentences. However, I dont believe that 14 year olds having wanton sex is healthy mentally or physically. Of course 14 year old boys want sex- their hormones are kicking in and they instinctually desire sex. That does not mean that they are mentally prepared to do so. They aren't able to have serious, adult relationships and I reject the idea that casual sex is a good thing for them.

[Colovion]

If a student is taken advantage of then there should be charges filed. It seems like, understandably, he had a good time and was rather proud of his sexual experience. Sex really shouldn't be a taboo, it's natural. If his mother is so afraid of him becoming sexually active she should be more worried that he'll become a young father or become infested with STD's. It's pure ignorance on her part to assume that her actions here will have any affect on his sexual activity - more likely it'll inspire him. When a natural feeling is condemned it only pushes the one feeling it further away from the condemners. I really don't see what's so bad about sex. It's less natural for a boy to spend his day staring at a glowing screen than to have sex with his teacher. Modernism is stale and dry.

[Fragony]

Well, I was with you for the first 3 sentences. However, I dont believe that 14 year olds having wanton sex is healthy mentally or physically. Of course 14 year old boys want sex- their hormones are kicking in and they instinctually desire sex. That does not mean that they are mentally prepared to do so. They aren't able to have serious, adult relationships and I reject the idea that casual sex is a good thing for them.

You mistake sex with commitment, you could see it as practise instead. There is nothing wrong with teens fooling around, they will probably be better wifes and husbands with the experience they have gotten, sexually and relationship-wise.

[sharrukin]

I find the opinions expressed here creepy and disturbing.

Typical Paedophile justifications; choose your poison

“If children didn’t want to be abused, they would say ‘stop’”

“If a boy was aroused, erect, or had an orgasm during the abuse, it means that he liked it and that it wasn’t abuse”

“When a boy and older woman have sex, it’s the boy’s idea—he not being abused”

“girls get raped and hate it, but boys are seduced and love it”

“Boys are always ready for sex”

Any of this sound familiar?

The idea that boys always want sex is a misconception. Sex with inappropriate boundaries or before a person is emotionally ready is unhealthy. When someone manipulates power and authority to engage in sex with a young person, it is abusive.

PRIEST A:
He took a 14-year-old boy to a gay club in New York City where he and other patrons engaged in sexual activity with the boy. This account matches allegations against the Rev. Joseph Mundy, whose victim has said that what happened to him left him scarred and suicidal. Mundy has left the priesthood. He wasn't dragged there kicking and screaming so he must have wanted it!

Too many people on this thread are acting like 14 year little boy's. They talk as if this just some fantasy come to life. This is one of the biggest problems we face in western society. The failure of adults to think and act as adults and take responsibility for their actions.

Sharrukin`s post was off topic because it concerned childhood abuse. No childhood abuse in this story.
Let´s all say it together: sex is a good thing. Yes, sex is a good thing. It is perfectly normal for a 14-year old to begin seeking sexual experiences. A 14-year old having sex is not a bad thing. The reason we need laws against sex with minors is not that minors shouldn`t have sex but that if you have a sexual relation between an adult and a minor, it becomes doubtful whether the adult has not used subtle means of force. Now, the teacher acted certainly immoral because she was in a position of authority, but given her looks and her age we should give her the bnefit of the doubt that this sex was indeed consensual, and not the result of any form of force.

Sharrukin`s post was off topic only if you believe that young boy's in the 12-14 year old range are adults. The use of physical force has nothing to do with this. As of 2002 a 42 year old man can have sex with a 12 year boy or girl in the Netherlands

Adolescent boy's are absolutely clueless and have an inability to consent in law, and in fact. We do not allow them to sign contracts without their legal guardian, nor do we allow them to be interrogated without their parents being present. Why? If what so many have said here is true, then shouldn't these legal protections should be removed?

Is a very mature ten year old fair game? Boys that age have a very short sighted viewpoint of life and we all know that! Have you ever met any 14 year olds? Have you had an extended conversation with them? If you have, would you let them vote? Do you want Eminem for President? A 14 year boy would nail a warm apple pie. That doesn't excuse the behaviour of an adult, who can easily manipulate them in such cases. Pamela Smart for example seduced her 15-year-old student as a means to murder her husband. Do you think this is really what he wanted to do? At this age, they really are still children, and very much subject to manipulation.

An arbitrary line must exist somewhere unless you believe it should not, and children should be available to whomever can persuade them into bed? There must be a gray area if there is to be any limits on Paedophiles, or protection for children.

[Xiahou]

Here you go, Don. From NAMBLA's website- a list of letters from boys stating how great it is to be molested by older men. You dont have a problem with this right?

Love & Loyalty
The Best Thing That Ever Happened to MeGreg, age 16
I Love Him, and I Know That He Loves Me Darrel, age 16
It Shouldn't Be a Crime to Make Love Bryan, age 12 1/2
Boys Help Men, Too "College Boy", age 19
I'm Not Going To Be Kept Away from Him (An Interview) Thijs, age 11



Friendship & Fun
He Listens to Me, Unlike Most People Robert, age 16
Sex Is Really Beautiful with My Friend Dennis, age 13
The Beach Luis Miguelito de Argentina, age 13
De la Boca Chiquito Luis Miguelito de Argentina, age 13
Such a Relationship Is Very Beneficial Dan, age 19
"Air Guitar" Anton, age 14
Man, What a Feeling! Eric, age 14
Because I Enjoy It (An Interview) Theo, age 13



Respect & Support
If It Wasn't for Mark I'd Probably Be Dead Today Carl, age 14
Loneliness Mark, age 13
He Makes Me Glad I'm Gay Ed, age 14
The Politics of Ageism Michael Alhonte, age 18
I've Learned So Much from Barend (An Interview) Gerrit, age 16



Consent
Thank God for Boy-LoversVictor, age 14
For The First Time in My Life I Felt Wanted Gabriel, age 16
Gay Consciousness
I Need My Lovers Tyrone, age 16
He Was Very Special and Kind Barry, age 17
Column No. 8 "The Unicorn", age 12



Body Politics
We Should Be Able to Have the Relationships We Want George, age 17
It Was Me Who Started It Frank, age 15
Column No. 1 "The Unicorn", age 11
Four Resolutions Second International Gay Youth Congress
Dutch Gay Youth Visits San Francisco (Interview) Bertram Hoffman, age 24
It's Adults Who Are Screwed Up about Sex (from Lesbian Gay Youth Magazine)




The Sex Police: Man/Boy Love and the Law
Moms and Teens File $200M Federal Suit against Police and Bronx D.A.s for
Physical and Mental Abuse
Teens Charge Cops Threatened Them with Rape Bill Andriette
I Know What I Am: Gay Teenagers and the Law Joint Council for Gay Teenagers
"Victim" Joins NAMBLA (Interview) Harold Baker, age 16
There Were Bars on My Bedroom Window Jonah, age 12

Ugh, I feel dirty for even going to that site.... *shudder* Honestly, it was revolting.

[Goofball]

Well, I was with you for the first 3 sentences. However, I dont believe that 14 year olds having wanton sex is healthy mentally or physically. Of course 14 year old boys want sex- their hormones are kicking in and they instinctually desire sex. That does not mean that they are mentally prepared to do so. They aren't able to have serious, adult relationships and I reject the idea that casual sex is a good thing for them.

The only reason why he might not be mentally prepared to do so is that he has been taught by a puritanical society that sex is dirty and bad, and that it is a "very, very, very big deal." The physical act of sex is none of those things. It is a bodily function, plain and simple. It's the emotional games that are tied to sex that can make it harmful to somebody's psyche. I agree with Saturnus on this one. Sex between adults and minors is bad mainly because adults are quite a bit more experienced than minors are in life and human interaction, so it's hard to tell whether the minor is having sex because he/she really wants to or because he/she is somehow being tricked or coerced.

[Moros]

I really don't think it was such a horrible crime, yes she should lose her job but 30 years damn I would be happy to be a "victim" of such a crime. I mean really I'd done the same and I still would (owkay I know I'm still only 16 but wth), I think the kiddo should decide if she'd go to jail or not. was it a horrible experience for him? I don't think so.

[Goofball]

Don, it still doesnt make what the teacher did right and certainly not legal. She was the adult and it was up to her to behave like one. Many 14 yr old boys are raging hormones- but that only furthers the point that they aren't old enough to rationally weigh consequences and consent to something like that. Especially as a teacher, it was morally and legally repugnant for her to do what she did even if he was coming on to her- that's an awful excuse. Many young girls become infatuated with older men and flirt with them, but if the man engaged in sex with a 14 year old girl her initiation is no defense.

I understand what you are saying Xiahou. But I think calling this a rape and treating it the same as say, a woman who was forcibly restrained, beaten, and raped by a man is a farce. And that's what is happening, based on the sentence. Hell, I bet you I could dig up lots of examples of "real" rape where the sentences were actually shorter.

At any rate, in cases like this the judge should apply a little bit of reason. If the defence can show that it was willing on the part of the "victim," even though they are below the age of consent, that should be a mitigating circumstance. Not an absolving circumstance, mind you, but in this case a thirty-year sentence is utterly ridiculous.

[Proletariat]

Why is the 'It's No Big Deal' crowd obstinately refusing to answer the NAMBLA analogy?

[Xiahou]

Well sure Goof, statutory rape isnt the same as forcible rape- but they're both bad and that's what I'm arguing. I don't know that a 30yr sentence is appropriate either, but I do think she should do some time and be registered as a sex offender. It is a crime and I think it's good that it is.

[Goofball]

Well sure Goof, statutory rape isnt the same as forcible rape- but they're both bad and that's what I'm arguing. I don't know that a 30yr sentence is appropriate either, but I do think she should do some time and be registered as a sex offender. It is a crime and I think it's good that it is.

Agreed.

[drone]

Why is the 'It's No Big Deal' crowd obstinately refusing to answer the NAMBLA analogy?

I think most of them are still in shock from that post.

Xiahou, can't believe you went to that site. You might want to clean your browser history and cookies. Where is the "shudder" smiley?

[Proletariat]

It's intellectual dishonesty. I guess all humans are created equal unless you take their sex into account, since men are voracious and women are damsels.

[Colovion]

Why is the 'It's No Big Deal' crowd obstinately refusing to answer the NAMBLA analogy?

Because that's taking a number of specific examples and applying it to the entire situation. It would be similar to me going into a Dominatrix site and revealing how many women enjoy the said treatment and then going forward assuming that most females I date would enjoy having clamps on their nipples.

I'm sure there's even more examples of statements by molested children which are negative than positive. But sure - perhaps many of those boys were neglected as children and so when someone gives them attention, naturally, they become attached to those who pay attention to them.

[sharrukin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
Why is the 'It's No Big Deal' crowd obstinately refusing to answer the NAMBLA analogy?

Because that's taking a number of specific examples and applying it to the entire situation. It would be similar to me going into a Dominatrix site and revealing how many women enjoy the said treatment and then going forward assuming that most females I date would enjoy having clamps on their nipples.

The specific examples posted show there is harm done. The research shows there is harm done. The NAMBLA information suggests that applying this kind of logic would be exactly what paedophiles want.

Many children and young adults who have been victims of sexual abuse do heal and go on to lead normal lives like everyone else. So do many rape victim's. What does that have to do with the morality of what was done?

[Colovion]

A horny 14 year old boy having sex with an attractive women isn't cause for alarm. If you disagree, then feel free to be alarmed.

Feel free to say that sexual abuse shouldn't be tolerated because everyone will agree with you. The reason why anyone is arguing is because of one's own interpretation of what sexual abuse is differs from others.

I don't think this is a case of sexual abuse.

[Don Corleone]

Why is the 'It's No Big Deal' crowd obstinately refusing to answer the NAMBLA analogy?

Perhaps because some of us had pretty busy day at work?

Look, I'm really going to marginalize myself here, but the fact that it's homosexual activity changes nothing. If somebody is being forced or coerced into having sexual relations, then it is wrong. If they're actively seeking out sexual partners, even those that are older, then that's a horse of a different color. "I" may find NAMBLA repugnant, but if what they claim is true, and that's a big "if" in my book, that most youths go looking for sex with older men in the gay community, then I'm sorry, it's inappropriate, it shouldn't happen, but it's not rape.

The big difference with the whole Roman Catholic priest scandal is that even when 1) they were being forced or coerced into sex by means of religious persuasion 2) people were going to the Church authorities they were told it would be dealt with and it wasn't 3) when people sought a more effective solution, they were excoummnicated and the offending priest was moved. Not the same situation at all.

If some 14 year old boy decides he wants to go sleep with a 40 year old guy and goes looking for him, it's inappropriate, but it's not rape by the 40 year old guy.

[ScionTheWorm]

how is this in any way for the interrest of the victim? i think he is blessed, besides that it came out in public and his sweetheart is going away for a hard and painful time

The most common instances are women (or groups of them) using foreign objects on an unwilling man. It's not so much a case of lust-fueled violence as anger-fueled violence, usually for revenge. The sexual connotation that comes with the foreign objects bit is usually about humiliation as well as being incredibly painful.

I'm starting to get a little worried about you

[KukriKhan]

Some folks are splitting the legal hair that this incident wasn't technically 'rape'; I think it was, but I'll concede the point, since Ms. Molester was actually charged with "Lewd and lascivious battery" on the 14-yr old, and "Lewd and lascivious exhibition" on the 15-yr old driver/cousin.

R'as al Ghul asked what I believe. I think that's irrelevant, but will answer: I believe the people of the state of Florida decided they didn't want adults engaging in any sexual activity with under-18 yr olds. Citizens in that jurisdiction should abide by that rule, or work to have it changed (while still abiding).

If the people of Raleigh, North Carolina decided that every Tuesday, all adult males who are outdoors during daylight hours, MUST wear tophats...I might think it's a silly law, but if I were walking the streets on Tuesday at Noon, you would see a tophat on my head.

On the wider subject of teen maturity: some are, some aren't, capable of making life-and-death judgments (which having sex certainly is). We do a really crappy job of preparing them to make those decisions, IMO, for reasons that are, at best: unclear, at worst: suspicious, to me.

[Moros]

I don't think I would be emotionallly damged in any ways if I was the boy but I think I might would if she went to jail because they found out because of me. So putting her such a long time to jail could also damage the kid emotionally. And I think it's all about the best for the kiddo isn't it?
Personally I don't care if someone brakes the law when it doesn't hurt somebody. for example lets say indeed if we all had to wear those ridiculous hats I don't think it wouldn't mind if someone didn't but I would care if sombody rapes, beats, abuses, kill,steal somebody/something. laws are to protect the people, people are to protect the law but people should also define(sp?)the law but the law shouldn't define the people...