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Thread: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Here's a great article from The Australian by Mark Steyn.

    Mark Steyn: Mugged by reality?

    July 25, 2005

    WITH hindsight, the defining encounter of the age was not between Mohammed Atta's jet and the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, but that between Mohammed Atta and Johnelle Bryant a year earlier.

    Bryant is an official with the US Department of Agriculture in Florida, and the late Atta had gone to see her about getting a $US650,000 government loan to convert a plane into the world's largest crop-duster. A novel idea.

    The meeting got off to a rocky start when Atta refused to deal with Bryant because she was but a woman. But, after this unpleasantness had been smoothed out, things went swimmingly. When it was explained to him that, alas, he wouldn't get the 650 grand in cash that day, Atta threatened to cut Bryant's throat. He then pointed to a picture behind her desk showing an aerial view of downtown Washington - the White House, the Pentagon et al - and asked: "How would America like it if another country destroyed that city and some of the monuments in it?"

    Fortunately, Bryant's been on the training course and knows an opportunity for multicultural outreach when she sees one. "I felt that he was trying to make the cultural leap from the country that he came from," she recalled. "I was attempting, in every manner I could, to help him make his relocation into our country as easy for him as I could."

    So a few weeks later, when fellow 9/11 terrorist Marwan al-Shehhi arrived to request another half-million dollar farm subsidy and Atta showed up cunningly disguised with a pair of glasses and claiming to be another person entirely - to whit, al-Shehhi's accountant - Bryant sportingly pretended not to recognise him and went along with the wheeze. The fake specs, like the threat to slit her throat and blow up the Pentagon, were just another example of the multicultural diversity that so enriches our society.

    For four years, much of the western world behaved like Bryant. Bomb us, and we agonise over the "root causes" (that is, what we did wrong). Decapitate us, and our politicians rush to the nearest mosque to declare that "Islam is a religion of peace". Issue bloodcurdling calls at Friday prayers to kill all the Jews and infidels, and we fret that it may cause a backlash against Muslims. Behead sodomites and mutilate female genitalia, and gay groups and feminist groups can't wait to march alongside you denouncing Bush, Blair and Howard. Murder a schoolful of children, and our scholars explain that to the "vast majority" of Muslims "jihad" is a harmless concept meaning "decaf latte with skimmed milk and cinnamon sprinkles".

    Until the London bombings. Something about this particular set of circumstances - British subjects, born and bred, weaned on chips, fond of cricket, but willing to slaughter dozens of their fellow citizens - seems to have momentarily shaken the multiculturalists out of their reveries. Hitherto, they've taken a relaxed view of the more, ah, robust forms of cultural diversity - Sydney gang rapes, German honour killings - but Her Britannic Majesty's suicide bombers have apparently stiffened even the most jelly-spined lefties.

    At The Age, Terry Lane, last heard blaming John Howard for the "end of democracy as we know it" and calling for "the army of my country ... to be defeated" in Iraq, now says multiculturalism is a "repulsive word" whereas "assimilation is a beaut" and should be commended. In the sense that he seems to have personally assimilated with Pauline Hanson, he's at least leading by example.

    Where Lane leads, Melbourne's finest have been rushing to follow, lining up to sign on to the New Butchness. "There is something wrong with multiculturalism," warns Pamela Bone. "Perhaps it is time to say, you are welcome, but this is the way it is here." Tony Parkinson - The Age's resident voice of sanity - quotes approvingly France's Jean-Francois Revel: "Clearly, a civilisation that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."

    And yet, The Age's editor Andrew Jaspan still lives in another world. You'll recall that it was Jaspan who objected to the energy and conviction of certain freed Australian hostage, at least when it comes to disrespecting their captors: "I was, I have to say, shocked by Douglas Wood's use of the 'arsehole' word, if I can put it like that, which I just thought was coarse and very ill-thought through ... As I understand it, he was treated well there. He says he was fed every day, and as such to turn around and use that kind of language I think is just insensitive."

    And heaven forbid we're insensitive about terrorists. True, a blindfolded Wood had to listen to his jailers murder two of his colleagues a few inches away, but how boorish would one have to be to hold that against one's captors? A few months after 9/11, National Review's John Derbyshire dusted off the old Cold War mantra "Better dead than red" and modified it to mock the squeamishness of politically correct warfare: "Better dead than rude". But even he would be surprised to see it taken up quite so literally by Andrew Jaspan.


    Usually it's the hostage who gets Stockholm Syndrome, but the newly liberated Wood must occasionally reflect that in this instance the entire culture seems to have caught a dose. And, in a sense, we have: multiculturalism is a kind of societal Stockholm Syndrome. Atta's meetings with Bryant are emblematic: He wasn't a genius, a master of disguise in deep cover; indeed, he was barely covered at all, he was the Leslie Nielsen of terrorist masterminds - but the more he stuck out, the more Bryant was trained not to notice, or to put it all down to his vibrant cultural tradition.

    That's the great thing about multiculturalism: it doesn't involve knowing anything about other cultures - like, say, the capital of Bhutan or the principal exports of Malaysia, the sort of stuff the old imperialist wallahs used to be well up on. Instead, it just involves feeling warm and fluffy, making bliss out of ignorance. And one notices a subtle evolution in multicultural pieties since the Islamists came along. It was most explicitly addressed by the eminent British lawyer Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws, QC, who thought that it was too easy to disparage "Islamic fundamentalists". "We as western liberals too often are fundamentalist ourselves. We don't look at our own fundamentalisms."

    And what exactly would those western liberal fundamentalisms be? "One of the things that we are too ready to insist upon is that we are the tolerant people and that the intolerance is something that belongs to other countries like Islam. And I'm not sure that's true."

    Hmm. Kennedy appears to be arguing that our tolerance of our own tolerance is making us intolerant of other people's intolerance, which is intolerable. Thus the lop-sided valse macabre of our times: the more the Islamists step on our toes, the more we waltz them gaily round the room. I would like to think that the newly fortified Age columnists are representative of the culture's mood, but, if I had to bet, I'd put my money on Kennedy: anyone can be tolerant of the tolerant, but tolerance of intolerance gives an even more intense frisson of pleasure to the multiculti masochists. Australia's old cultural cringe had a certain market rationality; the new multicultural cringe is pure nihilism.

    Mark Steyn is a regular contributor to The Australian.
    I believe I read here that a neo-liberal was a liberal who was mugged by reality, but declined to press charges.

    Look at the idiot who got upset over the terrorists being called a**holes, since the terrorists were kind enough to feed him 3 times a day. This brings up an interesting point; it's bad to call terrorists a**holes if they feed you three times a day, but its okay to call US troops torturers, nazis, etc., if they detain enemies without charging them?

    Crazed Rabbit
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    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Well, it's not fair to call American troops Nazis, I'll give you that. And terrorists should be called assholes.

    Other than that, I thought the articale was confusing. What was it saying? Is it saying that accepting other cultures is wrong, or that accepting terrorism is wrong? Because there is a huge difference, which seems to be over looked by many people.

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    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    There was even a suggestion that the London Bombers should not be called terrorists because they were afraid it might polarise public opinion.

    I might see their point depending on their definition of a terrorist.

    Terrorist
    n : one who makes the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature.

    What is Al Qaeda's goal?
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Great article, this guy is on the money. Some things that had to be quoted a second time.

    Murder a schoolful of children, and our scholars explain that to the "vast majority" of Muslims "jihad" is a harmless concept meaning "decaf latte with skimmed milk and cinnamon sprinkles".

    "Clearly, a civilisation that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."

    Hmm. Kennedy appears to be arguing that our tolerance of our own tolerance is making us intolerant of other people's intolerance, which is intolerable.

    The left is so far out in - well - left field when it comes to the issue of terrorism its almost a mental deficiancy. They fight harder, in fact, they fight soley for the rights of terrorists and forsake the victims.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    There was even a suggestion that the London Bombers should not be called terrorists because they were afraid it might polarise public opinion.
    Well I hear Rueters, the BBC and CBC all have asked the word terrorist not be used.
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    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Well to be fair, calling a simpleminded suicide bomber a terrorist is pretty insulting to the first terrorists... the French!!!

    Seriously though the term was initially used to described Robespiere's Reign of Terror in revolutionary France. How it ever got to be describing paramilitaries and insane individuals is beyond my understanding.

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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well I hear Rueters, the BBC and CBC all have asked the word terrorist not be used.
    why not ?
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Other than that, I thought the articale was confusing. What was it saying? Is it saying that accepting other cultures is wrong, or that accepting terrorism is wrong? Because there is a huge difference, which seems to be over looked by many people.
    It's not about that, but about some people's refusal to actually think critically. Those people prattle on about root causes and are always searching for some way to apologise for, or just ignore, terrorism. Ex:

    The meeting got off to a rocky start when Atta refused to deal with Bryant because she was but a woman. But, after this unpleasantness had been smoothed out, things went swimmingly. When it was explained to him that, alas, he wouldn't get the 650 grand in cash that day, Atta threatened to cut Bryant's throat. He then pointed to a picture behind her desk showing an aerial view of downtown Washington - the White House, the Pentagon et al - and asked: "How would America like it if another country destroyed that city and some of the monuments in it?"

    Fortunately, Bryant's been on the training course and knows an opportunity for multicultural outreach when she sees one. "I felt that he was trying to make the cultural leap from the country that he came from," she recalled. "I was attempting, in every manner I could, to help him make his relocation into our country as easy for him as I could."
    A man threatens to cut her throat, but its alright, because he's from a different culture, and you know we must never even tsk tsk other cultuers, no matter what. Its that willfull ignorance, refusing to actually realize the threat, that is so dangerous.

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    Member Member Azi Tohak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Thanks guys. I always like a good laugh

    That article is hilarious!

    Azi

    P.S. 300 posts! Whoopee!
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    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    The left is so far out in - well - left field when it comes to the issue of terrorism
    So would you say Panzer, when it comes to terrorism, that you're so right that you're far-right?

    Sorry... couldn't resist. Actually, you might say that mightn't you?
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
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    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Our top general referred to terrorist as "scumbags".

    Proud to be Canadian I is.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    It just happens to be that the author, Mark Steyn, is a Canuck too.

    Crazed Rabbit
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well I hear Rueters, the BBC and CBC all have asked the word terrorist not be used.


    why not ?
    They dont want to piss them off. Something like one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Their supposed to report the news not make moral judgements LOL.
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    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    I am not sure I believe the Johnelle Bryant story. From what I have read of Atta, I do not think he would walk into a US government office and threaten to cut a worker's throat. Do a google search on Johnelle Bryant and you'll find some scepticism. For example, her alleged meeting with Atta was before he was officially recorded as entering the country.

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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    So would you say Panzer, when it comes to terrorism, that you're so right that you're far-right?

    Sorry... couldn't resist. Actually, you might say that mightn't you?
    Definitely...

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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    This kind of thing baffles me, another example is that our troops aren't allowed to use lasers e.g. target designators to blind the enemy but it's perfectly acceptable to shoot them in the head.

    Call terrorists whatever you want, what does it matter to them, they'll be dead as soon as we catch them. Jaspan is an idiot, I wonder what he would have said if a captive had managed to get a knife and slit every one of the terrorists throats? Would he have hailed the guy as a hero and rightly justified as I would or would he have wanted him to sit peacefully and hope for release?

    I would say that if anything we are not harsh enough on terrorists, if it was up to me I would kill everyone we could prove was a terrorist in such a way as they don't get their 70 virgins or whatever it is they think they're getting. If I could prove any mosque's or communities were advocating the use of suicide bombers I would take it apart and jail the instigators, like the guy on BBC 2 days ago who said he admired the London bombers and that suicide bombings can be justified.

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    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    They dont want to piss them off. Something like one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Their supposed to report the news not make moral judgements LOL.
    In that case the BBC shouldn't have called them attacks or bombings, rather than acts of liberation.
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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    They dont want to piss them off. Something like one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Their supposed to report the news not make moral judgements LOL.
    And they are wrong, every freedom fighter through history has been a terrorist, including Washington. It's better to call things what they really are......

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    The fake specs, like the threat to slit her throat and blow up the Pentagon, were just another example of the multicultural diversity that so enriches our society.
    Is he advocating a single cultural in Australia? Reverting to the White Australia Policy that racist cretins like One Nation supporters crave.

    Or is he saying bring your food, knowledge, language but not your past hatred and feuds?
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    I think he's saying this political correctness run amok. Regardless of what his cultural norms are, it should be expected that she would try to see his reasoning for threatening to slit her throat. She should have called the police, not encouraged him.

    There's nothing wrong with being politically correct, per se. It's just a buzzword for being discrete and polite. The problem with it is 1) when it's forced or 2) when it leaves reason behind.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    I'm just wondering if people are seeing the terrorist attacks as an oppourtunity to push their personal agendas...
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Member Member Efrem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    political correctness, its the bane of western society.
    Last edited by Ser Clegane; 07-29-2005 at 15:24. Reason: Edited for bad language
    Viva La Rasa!!!

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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    I'm just wondering if people are seeing the terrorist attacks as an oppourtunity to push their personal agendas...
    How can you even suggest such a thing Pape

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    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    I think he's saying this political correctness run amok. Regardless of what his cultural norms are, it should be expected that she would try to see his reasoning for threatening to slit her throat. She should have called the police, not encouraged him.
    I think he did not check his facts. His "defining encounter of the age" never happened. But then he does not sound like the sort of writer who lets the facts get in the way of a good rant.

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    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    The terrorists in London have no real goal. Therefore, according to that definition, they aren't.

    So just call them murderers. It's much harder to glamourise someone who has just been sent down for multiple attempted murders.

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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by BDC
    The terrorists in London have no real goal.
    i disagree. their goal is to show the world that they will not stand idly by while Islam is defiled by the West

    if the West gets out of Islamic nations which it has no business being in, then chances are pretty darn good that it won't be getting so many Islam-based attacks any more
    Last edited by Navaros; 07-30-2005 at 09:30.

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    Member Member Efrem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't Call Terrorists Names! It's insensitive!

    Which is discounting that sept 11th came before Afagistan and Iraq.

    Personal attacks are absolutely inacceptable here - Ser Clegane
    Last edited by Ser Clegane; 07-30-2005 at 11:50. Reason: edited to remove insult
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