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Thread: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

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    Default REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"



    By M.L. LYKE
    SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

    A truck tire hits a flagged wire, a roadside bomb explodes, a handsome private with shredded leg screams in agony. In the bloody chaos of the moment, his soldier buddies panic. One pukes.

    Stop the cameras! Sir!


    Gilbert W. Arias / P-I
    In a preview of "Over There" at Camp Murray in Tacoma, 1st Lt. Eva Sovelenko reacts to a scene as Sgt. John Figueroa looks on.

    "People don't act like that when an i.e.d. (improvised explosive device) goes off. They make us look like idiots. We're not idiots!" said a first lieutenant previewing "Over There," the new TV series from Steven Bochco ("NYPD Blue," "Hill Street Blues") that debuts tomorrow night on FX cable network. It's set in Iraq, hyped as "true to life" by producers and hailed by critics as "unflinching" and "gut-wrenching."

    "Bogus" was the preferred adjective among the eight soldiers -- most of them Iraq vets -- viewing the series pilot last week at Camp Murray, headquarters of the Washington State National Guard in Tacoma.

    "Thank God that's over," said a master sergeant as the credits rolled.

    The uniformed skeptics dissected the series pilot scene by scene, beginning with the roadside bombing and panicked soldiers. Who, they asked, was pulling security? And what kind of idiot pulls off his helmet after a bombing attack? "In real life, training takes over. Not in Hollywood," said Sgt. Dan Purcell.

    The flags on the trip wires got an "F": roadside bombs in Iraq are typically hidden in watermelons, hay stacks, animal carcasses -- not marked for easy viewing. "A flag to mark an i.e.d.? What is that -- like don't land here?"

    Truck drivers also got eight thumbs down. "You do not, under any circumstances, pull off on the side of the road. You stop in the middle."

    The TV series, filmed in California, follows an Army infantry squad, flashing between soldiers' experiences in-country and the impact of their deployment back home in the States. It's billled as the first war drama built around a U.S. military conflict still in progress, a war with death tolls mounting daily.

    Bochco, who co-created the series with Chris Gerolmo ("Mississippi Burning"), has stated in interviews that the show is apolitical. "Ultimately, a young man being shot at in a firefight has absolutely no interest in politics," he told Reuters news service.

    But some camo-clad critics at Camp Murray were left wondering just what the message was in "Over There." One said a young soldier who brags about slitting the throat of a child sentry "makes us look like murderers."

    Master Sgt. Jeff Clayton complained that cameras deliberately dragged out the death scenes of Iraqi insurgents after a firefight, lingering unnecessarily on the carnage. "It made me sick."

    And where, soldiers asked, were the scenes of soldiers building schools, Iraqi kids waving American flags?

    The fast-paced premiere is packed with sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll; cool explosions and close-up gore; cussing and wrought emotion. It opens with the soldiers' goodbyes to family and a nervous flight to Iraq. In an instant -- "Yeah, right" -- the new dudes are belly-down in sand in front of a mosque full of insurgents, with two women accidentally trapped in the trenches, one with a big attitude and little common sense.

    "I can do it myself!" she yells at a soldier who tries to help her dig a trench. "You deaf soldier?" It's night, she's totally exposed to enemy fire and, when it starts, it's boy-soldier who has to push her head down to save her.

    No wonder the men keep asking, "What do we do about the women?"

    "I did not like the way the show presents men's opinion of women -- they act like the women were some other species," said Lt. Connie Woodyard, who returned from Iraq earlier this year. "We're not cowards. Women in Iraq are doing amazing things."

    The Camp Murray soldiers dismissed the military firefights as "bull---- " ("Where is the air support? Where is the armor support?"), the dialogue as contrived ("It sucked") and plot drivers as pure Hollywood.


    In the script, characters are thrown together for the first time. They constantly ask each other to explain nicknames. In real life, soldiers are sent to Iraq in units. "They don't have to ask each other's nicknames. They all know each other."


    After one week in-country, the soldier-actors mull life and death and war in eloquent speeches home to loved ones, talking about how war unmasks the monster within. "Nobody is that reflective after one week in-country. It's more like, "Ohmigod, we're in Iraq. Hi. What the hell am I doing here?"

    A few scenes passed muster. Heads nodded when a soldier opened up a packet of Taster's Choice freeze-dried and downed the whole thing. Nice detail. Ditto the scene of the earnest soldier describing the horrors of war via computer video e-mail as his adulterous wife is writhing in ecstasy with lover-boy back home.

    "But after only a week?" commented one soldier.

    "It usually takes at least two," added another.

    One scene hit home for the tough audience: an intimate close-up of two African American soldiers talking band-of-brother bonds. Says one: "If you're looking for another fool to risk getting shot to cover your fool behind, I'm right here beside you."

    Correct! Sir!

    Only one of the camo-clad critics, Sgt. John Figueroa, who is awaiting call-up orders to Afghanistan, said he'd watch it.

    "Hey, I'm into Hollywood," he said, shrugging.
    Father Knows Best is online now

    What I hate is how people are calling this horrible show "so true" and "realistic"


    And how they are making a show before the war is over
    Last edited by scooter_the_shooter; 08-05-2005 at 15:30.
    Formerly ceasar010

  2. #2

    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    What do you expect from people making money off the hardships of others?

  3. #3
    Sports Freak Member dgfred's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I refuse to watch 1 instant of this crap!
    PB-PL Commander/CC2 Commander/MTW Commander

  4. #4

    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I watched the first episode...It was downright disrespectful to the people who are really 'over there'
    Formerly ceasar010

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Hollywood in total crap distortion of real events shocker!

    Now you know how we feel when we have to sit through Braveheart, The Patriot, that one about the sub in WW2, Patriot Games, er.. and just about everything else.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

  6. #6

    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Hollywood is turning this into a tv show. Its just like when that john wayne was in a vietnam movie during the war
    Formerly ceasar010

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    Guest Es Arkajae's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Hey man Green Berets rocked

    And you can't claim that it criticsed the military in any significant way, it is probably the most pro-US military Vietnam war movie ever made.

    Next to 'We Were Soldiers' its probably my favourite Vietnam War movie.

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    Member Member Tricon's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    This was dreck.
    This was really stupid propaganda. Emphasis on stupid.
    When I said Death before Dishonour, I meant alphabetically.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Now you know how we feel when we have to sit through Braveheart, The Patriot, that one about the sub in WW2, Patriot Games, er.. and just about everything else.
    WHAT?!?! Do you mean to say that the Battle of Stirling bridge was really at a bridge, that the English didn't make a habit of burning occupied churches in the Revolutionary war, that the British actually did something besides serve as the base for D-Day in WWII, and that, in general, Hollywood does not make super-accurate movies?

    Crazed Rabbit

    P.S. I would have listed something wrong with Patriot Games, but I am not familar enough with the history surrounding it.
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I won't watch it, well maybe I will, but this is bullcrap.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    Eliminated Faction Heir Member Laridus Konivaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Now can we deploy the army against Hollywood???
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  12. #12

    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I won't watch it, well maybe I will, but this is bullcrap.
    Such consistency Caps!

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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by Es Arkajae
    Hey man Green Berets rocked

    And you can't claim that it criticsed the military in any significant way, it is probably the most pro-US military Vietnam war movie ever made.

    Next to 'We Were Soldiers' its probably my favourite Vietnam War movie.
    we were soldiers with mel was awesome.

    We do not sow.

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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho
    Hollywood in total crap distortion of real events shocker!

    Now you know how we feel when we have to sit through Braveheart, The Patriot, that one about the sub in WW2, Patriot Games, er.. and just about everything else.
    wich movie with a sub?? Das Boat??? the hunt for Red October (wasnt ww2 movie was it.???)

    We do not sow.

  15. #15

    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    It was U5761
    Formerly ceasar010

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I think the means U-571, which had Americans taking over a u-boat in WWII, while apparently in this strange parallel universe he calls reality it was actually British soldiers.

    Crazed Rabbit
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    Sports Freak Member dgfred's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    we were soldiers with mel was awesome.
    Do you really think so? I thought it was too gung-ho, and not realistic.
    Walking around, giving orders, with bullets and mortars hitting everywhere...
    I read the book and enjoyed it much better.
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    Sports Freak Member dgfred's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    I'm an American and I thought U-571 was a bad movie.
    Same here pal!
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Why do you guys get so worked up about this ? How is this any different from absolutely any other movie ? Movies are not realistic. They never have been. I doubt they will ever be. Why ? Simple, because they would be damn boring, and nobody would pay to watch them.

    I have no idea about this particular movie, but, again, I don't see why anybody (soldiers included) would expect it to be any different from any other movie. It's Hollywood, it's entertainment, not reality. That's been the case since - well, for as long as I can remember.

    I get utterly and completely bored / pissed off/ mad / disgusted with 99.99% of computer-related stuff that I see in the movies. I've been working with computers for some 15 years or so now, and I get extremely annoyed when they show brilliant hackers breaking into CIA/FBI/choose-your-3digit-acronym in less than 5 minutes, or huge closets with a gazillion blinking lights and beeping constantly ("mainframes") (!!), or mindless tapping on keyboard that produce incredible graphs with a few keys pressed...

    And I am equally sure that professional doctors get bored with ER-like movies, and can spot a billion holes in their "realism", and Formula 1 professional drivers get annoyed with car racing movies, and so on, for every profession.

    Why ? Because it's not supposed to be real ! It's never meant to be real ! It's a movie ! If you expect realism from it, well, pffffft...
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    agitated Member master of the puppets's Avatar
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    Talking Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
    I think the means U-571, which had Americans taking over a u-boat in WWII, while apparently in this strange parallel universe he calls reality it was actually British soldiers.
    uh, i'm an american and i know it was a tommy.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Well, I was just answering a question.

    Crazed Rabbit
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    I knew it was going to be crap based purely on the fact that it's about a war still in progresss. What are you gonna do? Movies about war are movies with a message. Platoon, for example, is one of my favorite movies. It's not accurate, but it's message is "It would have sucked to be in the Vietnam War." I can buy that.

    This, however, is just someone wanting to capitalize on the "New War" as son as possible. There's no message. No skilled directing. No plot or character development. Not even realism. It sucks.
    Those were my thoughts, in a nutshell.
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Such consistency Caps!
    Who knows? If my family watches it I have little choice. I'll fight it though. Evil evil hollyshi...er...wood.

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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    We Were Soldiers is a good movie, though the book is better.

    I didn't know that about U-571. It was OK for a movie, but I saw it without the knowledge that it was Brits and not Yanks taking the sub.

    I contend that The Patriot was not trying to be historical - more like... an allegory... for the real thing. There were some parts I liked.

    I bet you'll all hate me, but I think The Great Escape is one of the best movies ever, even though it overglorifies American involvement.

    Hehe. There weren't any Americans in the real deal. But not important!

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I really dislike the show on every basis, it mocks our soldiers and shows them disrespect. I think the producers, actors, writers, and directors all need to go through formal military training and serve in Iraq for 6-18 months before they can come back here and try to tell the common idiot what it's really like there. Utter trash.

  26. #26
    Member Member KafirChobee's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Real soldiers? I'll bet my ass they love it ... if they are allowed to see it; OVER THERE.

    Those that have never served; or never intended to, seem to have this attitude that it is a bloodless conflict. That those, that serve are some kind of gods. That, when they die their mates are not affected, and that those affected are drawn straight to Jesus.

    Wake the F' up! plz. This is a TV show, it no further demonstrates the reality of Iraq than does our media. Or, our President.

    It does, however, introduce us to the personalities that "might" be there, or not. To venture into the realm that the project might have a hint of truth vs it is all a liberal attempt to tell the truth? Means what?

    For me, when I saw it? I had nightmares, I had not had for ... well, a few years anyway (say 20).

    Denying that men are being killed for no cause is fine (not by me, but I can accept the ignorance of others), if those accepting the losses intended to join the action. I would, but am way to old - well, lest I was a Reservist. [
    which I ain't]

    Personally? I don't think there is even one of these noble beasts protesting that would bother to put their butts on the line for "what they believe in".

    I did. So, Shut the F'up and do it - write me from Ft Polk - or, shut the f'up.

    It is a great show from it's first promo. I could even identify. It is, the same. The same, but different. Nicknames, we all got one .... well, all but me (mine lasted a week - 900).

    See, one of the things about "Over There" is that in a sense it introduces us to the new GI. I been outta the military for a century, or atleast since the last war we lost. That, there may now be a program that depicts some (most, probably) of the troops perceptions of the "war on terror" (oh, sorry I know Bushy changed the name .. just can't recall it at the moment - not that one GI gives a crap either) seems fair.

    Were the depiction "gungho" or sophmoricly "gee we don't wantto. Well, I would wonder. Don't worry right winger-never-going-to-serve-mycountry, the worm on this program will turn to show how patriotic it is to lose a limb, die or just believe in the falicies that exist. Big oil;for big oil - will never become a real issue. I promise.

    What it will become is our modern day "COMBAT" - from the 60's. It will begin as it has and end as the propaganda film for the administation as it was intended.

    How does anyone think anyhing could be approved for TV otherwise in todays atmosphere of political denial?
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  27. #27
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Its strange Kafir that this article is about real soldiers who have actually served in Iraq saying its a bunch of crap. But of course your memories of 30 years ago are better than theirs . What the hell do they know? I still have nightmares and this show is just one more of them.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  28. #28
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I don't know what you guys were expecting? Did you watch "24" believing it to be a documentary?

    The only really good "war movie" I've seen was actually the TV show "Band of Brothers". I don't know about realism, but it got the balance right I think.

    I do find the idea of a series based on a current conflict to be slightly disrespectful and distasteful. Though of course technically it was never a war and it has already been won. Apparently.
    Last edited by Slyspy; 08-08-2005 at 01:24.
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  29. #29
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    I would never watch it. I thought it would be quite stupid to be making a show about a war that is still going on, plus I prefer less time periods for war movies (preferably very very less recent).
    I did like Band of Brothers. That was good.

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  30. #30

    Default Re: REAL Soldiers hate the tv show "over there"

    Lol, as if Hollywood would ever produce anything realistic. The only thing that bugs me is the "Based on real events" title, shouldn't that be "Loosely based on real events".

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