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    Default In Praise of American Empire

    In praise of American empire

    By Dinesh D'Souza

    RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. – America has become an empire, a fact that Americans are reluctant to admit and that critics of the United States regard with great alarm.
    Since the end of the cold war, the US has exercised an unparalleled and largely unrivaled influence throughout the world – economically, politically, culturally, and militarily. Critics of America, at home and abroad, are right to worry about how US power is being used.

    The critics charge that America is no different from other rapacious empires that have trampled the continents in previous centuries. Within the universities, intellectuals speak of American policies as "neo-imperialist," because they promote the goals of empire while eschewing the term.

    America talks about lofty ideals, the critics say, but in reality it pursues its naked self-interest. In the Gulf War, for example, America's leaders asserted they were fighting for human rights, but in truth they were fighting to protect US access to oil. The critics point to past US support for dictators like Anastasio Somoza in Nicaragua, Augusto Pinochet in Chile, Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines, and the Shah of Iran as evidence that Americans don't really care about democratic ideals.

    Even now the US supports unelected regimes in Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. No wonder, the critics say, so many people around the world are anti-American and some even resort to terrorism to lash out.

    Are the critics right? They are correct to note the extent of American influence, but wrong to suggest that the US is no different from such colonial powers as the British, French, and Spanish that once dominated the world. Those empires – like the Islamic, Mongol, and Chinese empires – were sustained primarily by force. The British ruled my native country of India with some 100,000 troops.

    US domination is not sustained primarily by force. True, America has bases in the Middle East and Far East, and it can intervene militarily just about anywhere in the world.

    But the real power of America extends far beyond its military capabilities. Walk into a hotel in Barbados or Bombay and the bellhop is whistling the theme from "Titanic." African boys in remote villages wear baseball caps. Millions of people around the globe want to move to America. Countless people are drawn to America's technology, freedom, and way of life.

    Some critics sneer that these aspirations are short-sighted. Perhaps they are right. People may be wrong to want the American lifestyle, and may not foresee its disadvantages, but at least they are seeking it voluntarily.

    What about the occasions, though, when America does exercise military power? Here we can hardly deny the critics' allegation that the US acts to promote its self-interest. Even so, Americans can feel immensely proud of how often their country has served their interests while simultaneously promoting noble ideals and the welfare of others. Yes, America fought the Gulf War in part to protect its oil interests, but it also fought to liberate the Kuwaitis from Iraqi invasion.

    But what about long-lasting US backing for dictators, like Somoza, Pinochet, Marcos, and the shah? It should be noted that, in each case, the US eventually turned against their regimes and aided in their ouster.

    In Chile and the Philippines, the outcome was favorable: The Pinochet and Marcos regimes were replaced by democratic governments that endure. In Nicaragua and Iran, however, one form of tyranny gave way to another.

    These outcomes highlight a foreign- policy staple, the principle of the lesser evil. This means that one should not pursue a thing that seems good if it is likely to result in something worse. A second implication is that one is usually justified in allying with a bad guy to oppose a regime that is worse. A classic example was the American alliance with Stalin to defeat Hitler.

    Thus, many US actions that support tin-pot dictators become defensible. Remember, America was fighting a cold war. If one accepts that the Soviet Union was indeed an "evil empire," then the US was right to attach more importance to Marcos and Pinochet's anti-Soviet position than to their autocratic thuggery.

    Now the cold war is over, so why does America support despotic regimes like those of Pervez Musharraf in Pakistan, Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, and the royal family in Saudi Arabia? Again, examine the practical alternative to those regimes.

    Unfortunately there do not seem to be viable liberal, democratic parties in the Middle East. The alternative to Mr. Mubarak and the Saudi royal family appears to be Islamic fundamentalists of the bin Laden stripe. Faced with the choice between "uncompromising medievals" and "corrupt moderns," America must side with the corrupt.

    Remember, also, the larger context. America is the most magnanimous imperial power ever. After leveling Japan and Germany during World War II, the US rebuilt them. For the most part, America is an abstaining superpower. It shows no real interest in conquering the rest of the world, even though it can. On occasion, the US intervenes in Grenada or Haiti or Bosnia, but it never stays to rule them.

    Moreover, when America does get into a war, it is supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians. Even as US bombs destroyed the infrastructure of the Taliban, American planes dropped rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan civilians. What other country does such things?

    Jeane Kirkpatrick once said that "Americans need to face the truth about themselves, no matter how pleasant it is." The reason many Americans don't feel this way is that they judge themselves by a higher standard. Thus if the Chinese, the Arabs, or the sub-Saharan Africans slaughter 10,000 of their own people, the world utters a collective sigh and resumes normal business.

    By contrast, if America, in the middle of a war, accidentally bombs a school and kills 200 civilians, there is an uproar and an investigation. All of this demonstrates America's evident moral superiority.

    If this be the workings of empire, let us have more of it.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0426/p11s01-coop.html

    I found this to be an interesting article.

    Is America, or the West in general for that matter, morally or ethically superior?

    Do you think that American hegemony is a stablizing force in the world, considering its philosophies on economic freedom and individual liberty?
    Last edited by Divinus Arma; 08-13-2005 at 06:40.
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  2. #2
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Gah A long cut and paste. I hate those. I cant wait to see how this will be attacked.
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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    I found this to be an interesting article.
    It's more like a summary of the views of pro-Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    Is America, or the West in general for that matter, morally or ethically superior?
    I doubt such is the case if you're arguing about cultures, which, if you simply call all others as weaker, is, well, racism. But, if you're talking about how a country was run (especially the government), the West, as it is far more developed, is naturally superior in how it was run, and, therefore, expected to be superior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    Do you think that American hegemony is a stablizing force in the world, considering its philosophies on economic freedom and individual liberty?
    Yes. However, it's a fragile one. Especially if the country itself fails to maintain said philosophies...which leads to tyranny of some sort to some degree.

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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Gah A long cut and paste. I hate those. I cant wait to see how this will be attacked.
    Come on, Gawain. The post is pro-American after all!

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Yes it is and oh so true Who else sends aid to a country while their invading it?
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Gah A long cut and paste. I hate those. I cant wait to see how this will be attacked.
    I know you are joking about the watchtower backroom, but what do you think of this topic?

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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Yes it is and oh so true Who else sends aid to a country while their invading it?
    Why, I didn't bash America here (yet )after all!

    In fact, I agree to some extend with the article. It's true from its perspective, but it quite fails to deliver others'.

    Edit: Divinus, you give a valid question and the article is not bashing somebody else bloody. So, in my opinion, the thread's not killing anybody.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 08-13-2005 at 06:57.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    but it quite fails to deliver others'.
    The whole begging gave the other point of view. It had far more than just one side of the story This for instance.

    Even now the US supports unelected regimes in Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. No wonder, the critics say, so many people around the world are anti-American and some even resort to terrorism to lash out.
    That dosent sound very pro american to me and theres plenty more in the same vein. .
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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    The whole begging gave the other point of view. It had far more than just one side of the story This for instance.



    That dosent sound very pro american to me and theres plenty more in the same vein. .
    I see that (I read that article, if you fear i didn't ), however, it is presented briefly and quite stereotypically. Well, but I can't deny it's a reasonable article. Though the reasons for maintaining some of the despotic regimes seems all too light to me. I mean...are you sure there're only two choices for valid governments of those country?

  10. #10

    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    It's more like a summary of the views of pro-Americans.
    Well it is from the CSMonitor. I thought it raised a few points for discussion.

    I doubt such is the case if you're arguing about cultures, which, if you simply call all others as weaker, is, well, racism. But, if you're talking about how a country was run (especially the government), the West, as it is far more developed, is naturally superior in how it was run, and, therefore, expected to be superior.
    Now wait just a moment. Consider what you are saying! Americans are a nation of immigrants, a melting pot of world cultures. The article said nothing of race superiority, and I certainly had no intent of communicating that. My question relates to moral and/or ethically superiority. This in itself is not inherent. Even I agree that America is not inherently good or evil.

    The relative goodness of a nation, reflected in the liberties retained by its citizens and the intent of its use of force, is a thing to be sheparded by its citizens. America was a moral leader in promoting human rights throughout the world following WWII and during the cold war. Our national character as "good" and "just" is reflected in the world's expectations of our policy. The world expects the U.S. to avoid civilian casulaties. The world expects the U.S. to promote freedoms while restraining its application of force. And these things, for the most part, we pursue and accomplish.

    Yes. However, it's a fragile one. Especially if the country itself fails to maintain said philosophies...which leads to tyranny of some sort to some degree.
    I concur. But where is said tyranny?
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    The whole begging gave the other point of view. It had far more than just one side of the story This for instance.
    That dosent sound very pro american to me and theres plenty more in the same vein. .
    Gawain. 'Tis I who posted this. Consider my intent to be quite relevant in our arena of shared views.

    The article addresses your concerns by placing them within this context:
    These outcomes highlight a foreign- policy staple, the principle of the lesser evil. This means that one should not pursue a thing that seems good if it is likely to result in something worse. A second implication is that one is usually justified in allying with a bad guy to oppose a regime that is worse. A classic example was the American alliance with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
    It recognizes that our choice of support is a necessary evil. Consider our support of the muhajiden in Afghanistan. The greater evil then was Soviet expansion. Now that the Cold War is over, we can concentrate on a new lesser evil. Once we begin to turn the tide of militant religious extremism, we can then support an even lesser evil then petty dictators like Musharraf of Pakistan and other 3rd world cronies.

    It is a spiral towards the least of available evils, allowing defeat of each evil consecutively based on the current evil's relative potential for impact on peace and freedom.

    Edit: Just to expound on this, what order would you place the following evils:

    Muslim Militant Extremism, Nazi Expansionist Militarism, Stalinist Soviet Collectivism, Isolationist Militant Dictatorial Anti-Westerners
    Last edited by Divinus Arma; 08-13-2005 at 07:17.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Why are you explaning this to me. Your preaching to the choir I have said the same myself here more times than I care to mention. Its simply a matter of expediancy and choosing the lesser of two evils.
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    That was a very good article. Thanks for posting it. I really liked the part where he discussed "the greater good" in dealing with unsavory charactors.

    People expect more from Americans than, say Africans. Thats a double edged sword, especially in times of national conflict.

    Its just a good thing we have such an advanced military, because we so often have to fight with self-imposed hands tied behind our backs.

    The difference between the "American Empire", and those of say the Nazis or Britain, is that America does whats good for America first and whats good for the rest of the world second, while those other empires didnt even consider the second option.

    American influence over the world has been a net positive. However, when people expect more than they should, they are of course disappointed.

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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    I expect more from Western Europeans than from Americans. Even though I expect more from Americans than from all other countries.
    I don't think that US is an empire. I don't think that it's impact on the world is exceptional, comparing to it's size.
    Neither do I think that US is a violent or imperialistic state.

    There are two main things that irritate me in regards to US.

    1. The religious foreign policy.
    2. The knee jerking for China.

    Otherwise I think that US is a good and interesting nation with a lot to be proud over......

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    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Empire wise....


    ...I think u guys would like to know that Dubya has just threatened that he might use force in Iran.


    And about American Infuence being positive:

    Have you asked the 20 or so countries where the US has installed, promoted and supported dictatorships and kingdoms?
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    I like US,but we dont need an Empire to to take care of us others.Its same to me what empire would it be.The reason why many people dont like US is its unilateralism.Hegemony is a cursing word to me.
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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    The difference between the "American Empire", and those of say the Nazis or Britain, is that America does whats good for America first and whats good for the rest of the world second, while those other empires didnt even consider the second option.
    Not really.

    Britain did actually educate and built infrastructure in the colonies. US is a very good example of this.

    The Nazis did believe they thought of the world first. It was just that they believed they where a better race and some other inferior races where to be exterminated.

    US believes that countries with a political system different then their own should be "liberated". The cold war is a typical example of this. A country like Iran is another.

    All "empires" have the same arrogance and ignorance towards everyone else since they believe they are lesser......

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    The difference between the "American Empire", and those of say the Nazis or Britain, is that America does whats good for America first and whats good for the rest of the world second, while those other empires didnt even consider the second option.
    One comparing the British Empire to the Nazis is incorrect on so many different levels.

    Considering how well off the majority of the former British colonies are, Britain has had a far more positive impact then America and is a totally different society to that of the Nazis.

    Check out the Commonwealth Nations sometime. Also look at how many of the countries that is helping out the USA are former British colonies (as is USA).

    Pakistan, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India, Malaysia, Singapore etc.

    Add to that the scholarship programs that helped educate the colonialists. The likes of Ernest Rutherford was an Imperial scholar. And the on the whole peaceful transition of power to independance.

    While the Nazis where killing off as many as possible that did not follow their creed and racial sterotypes, the British Empire was fighting them off with English, Welsh, Scots, Irish, Maori, Fuzzy Wuzzies, Indians, Nepalese etc
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    I dont like america And refuse to read There Propiganda.

    Hoppefully a nuke will go off and Wpe out america and The rest of the World
    then the rest of the planet can live in peace.


    EDITED A LITTLE<


    MINI FLAME WAR
    STARTS HERE YOU MAY WISH TO SKIP TO POST 51


    Maby its Finished by then.
    Last edited by Shambles; 08-13-2005 at 16:36.

  20. #20

    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    They certainly have PR stunts nailed down. Presumably, no other country in the world gives foreign aid, therefore the moral superiority is evident?

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Shambles
    I dont like america And refuse to read There Propiganda.

    Hoppefully a nuke will go off and Wpe out america and The rest of the trouble makers "that would be terrorist States"
    then the rest of us can live in peace.
    Wow you seem bitter did somebody leave you at disney land
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    I expect more from Western Europeans than from Americans. Even though I expect more from Americans than from all other countries.
    I guess those folks in the Sudan shouldn't hold their breath, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shambles
    Hoppefully a nuke will go off and Wpe out america and The rest of the trouble makers "that would be terrorist States"
    then the rest of us can live in peace.
    Retard.

  23. #23

    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Retard.
    An example of that fabled "moral superiority"?

  24. #24

    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Wow you seem bitter did somebody leave you at disney land

    americans are asses, they keep starting wars.
    they agrivate me,
    so do terrorists,
    usa funded terrorists like the ira,
    and provoke civilwars.
    they polute more than any 1 and refuze to cut emissions.
    they want to rule the world yet cant eveen controll there own civilians.

    i stand by my 1st statement

    wed be better off with no yanks
    would probaby eliminate 98% terrorism by removing them,

    and to go even futher,
    The planet would be better off with no humans at all,

    Roll on a nother cold war i say,
    Just hope this time they hit the button and this planet can get back to trying to repair its self.
    Last edited by Shambles; 08-13-2005 at 15:34.

  25. #25
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Just hope this time they hit the button and this planet can get back to trying to repair its self.
    If its so bad wny dont you just commmit suicide and end you misery. Or do you plan on being one of the few left alive. Im sure a planet hit by a nuclear holocaust would be more to your liking. You are a sick individulal to want to wipe out most of the human race because most people are evil evil evil.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    America is no better or worse than any other powerful contry so get off your high horse alright you may not like america and thats fine you have your opinon but saying nuke the country thats just assinine its like saying nuke the entire middle east wake up and stop spewing so much blind hate
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  27. #27

    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    You are a sick individulal to want to wipe out most of the human race because most people are evil evil evil.
    Prehaps I am.

    But Im just tired of this on going Cr*P Thats Always Ceneterd around America.
    From the moment they set foot off the boat Its been nothing but bad news,

    And I Would not want 1 Survivour,
    about 2 thousand Humans survived a volcanic eruption Thousands of years ago,
    And now There EVERYWHERE.

    America is no better or worse than any other powerful contry so get off your high horse alright you may not like america and thats fine you have your opinon but saying nuke the country thats just assinine its like saying nuke the entire middle east wake up and stop spewing so much blind hate
    Hell I said Nuke the whole world 2.

    Humans Are the real problem on this planet,`
    and americans seem to provoke humans In to Being even worse than they naturally are,
    (they have managed to make me say all this for instance)

    EVERYTHING ELS gets allong.
    Everything works in harmony, And then You throw Humans in the middle of it,

    and you prety much Kill the planet.

    Sux.

    One day youl Relize that.


    ShambleS
    Last edited by Shambles; 08-13-2005 at 15:53.

  28. #28
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    Wow ive never seen some one approach there life like that before
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  29. #29
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    EVERYTHING ELS gets allong.
    Now I know your daft. Yeah wolves and deer get along. If a beaver builds a dam its working in harmony with nature but if man builds a dam hes messing with nature. I never understood this kind of thinking. We are also a natural part of this planet. That is unless you believe were all aliens.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  30. #30

    Default Re: In Praise of American Empire

    No I beleve were all A disease,
    That sucks the life out of Everything they see.
    and will leave behind an empty shell of a once magnificent planet.
    Last edited by Shambles; 08-13-2005 at 15:55.

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