The Racism Discussion thread

[The Stranger]

What I don't understand is why the hell everyone sees racism as black versus white. There is no such thing as counter racism, or whatever it's called.
Racism was a problem from the beggining of recorded history, and yet, people seem to only look at white versus black, especially in America.


I agree wholeheartedly. What is a race? Is it based off of language, or culture, or just looks? Is it based off of geographical location, or what?
It is especially muddy in places that were conquered over and over again by different peoples, and the people merged over time, such as Central Asia, Russia, the Balkans, etc.

yeah i wonder about that too. i once said that racism is still a big issue, the best answer i got was no it isnt, we got a black counceler.

most racists hate everyone that isnt like them or that never could be like them (on the outside)
that includes (for most neo-nazi's) muslims, blacks, gothics, indians, jews, etc
for muslim racists, particular everyone that isnt muslim and especially jews
etc etc.

and i think that the "group" that has been hurt by racism the most are the JEWS and not blacks muslims or anyone else.

[The Stranger]

I found that just being white in Indonesia the girls assume that you are richer then others.

believe me that is not only for being white and not only in indonesia i went to Guinee (not near australia but beneath senegal) they tried to rip you off becuase you looked western, they made a mistake cuz my mom is just like m.
it's not really the same but i think that if you would go there the girls would do the same thing.

[Bartix]

There are several different races around and human as a spieces can easily be divided in to races.

??? ???
I never hear any serious scientist claim such for many many years.
What races? How divide?

Here is anti-racist smiley:

[drone]

I'm sorry if I've offended you, it's just most I hear about racism is concentrated to the American South with whites against blacks. I'm sorry again if I've offended you, but that was a serious two questions there.

I wouldn't say I was offended, I was just trying to point out that the US South does not hold a monopoly on ignorant rascists. The South still has plenty of rascists, but it's a lot more subtle than it was. Overt acts are rare. I would say the most visible racial flashpoints now are in the big cities like Los Angelos and New York.

Groups like the KKK have been weakened by the most powerful attack possible here in the US, the civil lawsuit. Rascist groups have been bankrupted by lawsuits seeking damages for acts perpetrated by members. Without the money, the organization folds. The rascists still exist, but it's harder to recruit, sucker in a new generation, and get the message out. I hate lawyers (does that make me rascist? ), but this is an example of the legal system working for good.

[TheSilverKnight]

I wouldn't say I was offended, I was just trying to point out that the US South does not hold a monopoly on ignorant rascists. The South still has plenty of rascists, but it's a lot more subtle than it was. Overt acts are rare. I would say the most visible racial flashpoints now are in the big cities like Los Angelos and New York.

Groups like the KKK have been weakened by the most powerful attack possible here in the US, the civil lawsuit. Rascist groups have been bankrupted by lawsuits seeking damages for acts perpetrated by members. Without the money, the organization folds. The rascists still exist, but it's harder to recruit, sucker in a new generation, and get the message out. I hate lawyers (does that make me rascist? ), but this is an example of the legal system working for good.

Thanks for enlightening me over this situation
and btw, if you hate lawyers, you're not a racist I don't think anyone properly loves lawyers

[Steppe Merc]

I would have to disagree. There is nothing strange with race at all. There are several different races around and human as a spieces can easily be divided in to races.
The problem is when race is used for discrimination or favorisation.

I can't see anything wrong with calling a black man black or a white man white. I can't see any reason why anyone should be ashame or extra proud over his color and demand special treatment.

But what about say a place like Iran (sorry, I know a pretty good amount of ancient Iranian history, so I'm trying to work with what I know). I mean there were the Iranian speakers such as the Persians and Sakae and Parthians. They were "white" (varrying degrees of darkness, from blonde to dark haired). After that, first Huns then Turkic and and other non Iranian nomads began to encroach into Iran. Then the Arabs invaded, and evauntaully took over. So what is a current Iranian? Other than a genetic test, how do you know what race he is just by looking at him? Is he "white"? Or an Arab?
Is an ancient Iranian nomad "European", even though he lived in Central Asia? Many were probably quite pale, some mummified Scythians looked like Nords.

And what about the many blacks in America who have white blood in them, due to the large amount of children that slave owners had with slaves? If the mother is black and the father is white, what is the kid? Is he black?

[The Stranger]

i think you must not see sumone as muslim white or black but more as a human. i try to do that (i admit its hard and i cant always do it) i'm trying not to be prejudiced and sofar i did that. i'm not saying cant use the terms anymore but when your using it you must know for yourself that they are human first muslim second or human first christian second. alot of people already think that way, and then you have that tiny extreme group about wich we all talk. though the group is small the problems they cause can vary from small to huge.

[yesdachi]

I think being racist is bad but being predijust is ok.

[Red Harvest]

Pulled this from a CNN article today about Trent Lott's new book. It says alot about the quiet racism in the South, and the continued denial.

A native of Mississippi, Lott recalled feeling "anger in my heart over the way the federal government had invaded Ole Miss to accomplish something that could have been handled peacefully and administratively," a reference to the admission of the University of Mississippi's first black student in 1962.

After nearly 100 years of emancipation, the South still "didn't get it." For both slavery and civil rights, there is still an effort to blame the North/Federal government as having not given them enough time to deal with it on their own. It's like blaming the doctor for ordering you to quit smoking after you develop lung cancer. "I was gonna quit...really...sometime before I died anyway."

[Gawain of Orkeny]

After nearly 100 years of emancipation, the South still "didn't get it." For both slavery and civil rights, there is still an effort to blame the North/Federal government as having not given them enough time to deal with it on their own.

Hes saying he felt that way in 62 not now. Its also true that if the civil war were fought over slavery than it was a real waste of hunmanity as the slaves would have been set free anyway and much of this bad feelings bettween us wouldnt have occured.

[bmolsson]

But what about say a place like Iran (sorry, I know a pretty good amount of ancient Iranian history, so I'm trying to work with what I know). I mean there were the Iranian speakers such as the Persians and Sakae and Parthians. They were "white" (varrying degrees of darkness, from blonde to dark haired). After that, first Huns then Turkic and and other non Iranian nomads began to encroach into Iran. Then the Arabs invaded, and evauntaully took over. So what is a current Iranian? Other than a genetic test, how do you know what race he is just by looking at him? Is he "white"? Or an Arab?
Is an ancient Iranian nomad "European", even though he lived in Central Asia? Many were probably quite pale, some mummified Scythians looked like Nords.

And what about the many blacks in America who have white blood in them, due to the large amount of children that slave owners had with slaves? If the mother is black and the father is white, what is the kid? Is he black?

That would mean that these persons are of mixed race. Not fullblood so to say. It doesn't really matter in daily lives since there should be no difference between races. On a race angel, there are a few races which have different features, like color, size etc.
Today it's not PC to talk about races, but for, as long as there are no discrimination, I can't see any problems talking about it.

[Red Harvest]

Hes saying he felt that way in 62 not now.

That is not clear and based on Lott's past it is doubtful, but without reading the relevant section of the book I can't know the context. CNN Article about Lott's Book

The paragraphs following it are:

Later, as a law student at the same school, he remembered the visiting professors from Yale University, brought in to teach constitutional law.

"Instead of making us more liberal, they helped create a generation of thoughtful, issue-oriented conservatives who grew up to run Mississippi politics," he wrote.

And look at what a great job they've done...Mississippi still ranks last or near last in most measures. This implies that he was not that repentant about his former segregationist views, and that he had *not* renounced them altogether.

In this article
History News Network Discussion of Lott's Early Politics

The article contains some interesting insights into his segregationist character in there. It would be interesting to hear him explain in the book when his "conversion" occurred and why. He wouldn't comment on this earlier when his statements had him in hot water and cost him his position. Rather than his views changing, it appears that he was astute enough to adapt outward appearance, but not necessarily his beliefs. This is the quiet (or polite?) racism that is more prevalent in the South now.

Gawain:
Its also true that if the civil war were fought over slavery than it was a real waste of hunmanity as the slaves would have been set free anyway and much of this bad feelings bettween us wouldnt have occured.

While this is widely used as an excuse for secession, it is too convenient and not particularly feasible when you try to work through it.

First, the South initiated the war because of slavery, true. (Which is ironic, since slavery in Southern States wasn't directly threatened at the time anyway.) The North didn't go to war to end slavery, it went to war to preserve the Union. Yes, the war was about slavery, but it wasn't instigated by the North. Many avowed Southerners had extended the racism inherent in slavery to conclude that it had made them superior to Northerners as well.

Second, it has never been adequately explained how the South was going to deal with the large slave population on its own, had it been allowed to go its own way. If anything, secession only exacerbated its inability to deal with the problem--it would lack the resources of the North in assisting a transition. Slaves were 40% of the Southern population then, and would have probably been an even higher percentage on whatever date it was that slavery ended. Phaseout ideas had been roundly rejected in the past (such as making slaves children born after X date free once they reached adulthood.) I have not studied emancipation elsewhere, but I can't recall any similar population of the time that was emancipated without a struggle or the loss of the former masters as the source of power. The South had very real reasons to fear what effect freed slaves would have politically and labor wise, and they were very concerned about slaves acheiving political majorities in areas. THIS is the reason for the postwar denial of constitutional rights by the Southern whites, fear (combined with generations of racism.) The result was a sort of Apartheid, and I can't find any compelling reason to believe the same would not have happened if the CSA had gone its own way without war.

Third, to make secession workable without sparking a war, it really did need to be done in such a way that security, waterway, fishing, trade/tariff, and future territorial expansion were resolved in a treaty before it became effective. Absent an agreement, the Union had just cause to fear for its security and future, with a divided neighbor, the South, who were likely to fracture again because of their own impractical States Rights. Even R.E. Lee agreed that it wasn't legal to simply secede. Without certain treaties, even had the South been allowed to go, war was quite likely within a decade.

Fourth, Southerners in slave holding regions indeed considered themselves different from their Northern brethren, while the North was divided into more cultures and regions and abolitionists were a minority. This is a clear indication of how slavery had contorted Southern culture--it was an economic dependency that had produced social dependency. Non-slave economic regions of the South were Unionist or neutral.

Finally, at least another 4 million slaves would have lived all or most of their lives in bondage before slavery would have fully ended, had the South been allowed to secede. As such even the horrendous cost of the war, ~625,000 killed, is perhaps not an overly severe price to pay, dear as it was.

[Azi Tohak]

Anybody else amazed this is still civil?

It is nice to know I'm not living in a vacuum thinking racism is not solely restricted to white males.

Does nationalism breed racism? It sounds really odd coming from an American I know (half German, half UK [yes, Brit, Scot, Welsh all mixed in]), but does thinking, for example, the USA (or Canada or France) is the greatest nation on earth, lead people to think of all others as inferior because of race? Or is there another term for that? I don't know how an American could think that being an American is superior to being any European country, because most all of us have more than one nation in our blood. We all look the same! I just don't know if that is 'racism' or has another term.

Azi

[The Stranger]

I think being racist is bad but being predijust is ok.

the lines between prejudiced and racistic is pretty thin and i think that many people cant be able to see the difference. prejudiced is oke as long you atleast give the other the chance to prove himself

[Al Khalifah]

I remember reading something saying that many of English are a distinctly different race to the Scots, Irish and Welsh. Does that mean you're a racist if you dislike the Scots ? Not saying I do or anything...

[The Stranger]

no but when you hate them you are a racist, cuz you hate every scot nomatter who and how they are. you wouldnt give them a chance to prove themselve and when you encounter one you really would like to harm them. then you are a racist.

[The Stranger]

oh and the reason you hate them is becuz they are scots not becuz they did something to you.

[Leet Eriksson]

In the Middle East Racism is quite prevalent, being a non-Arab/Non Islamic in many places could get you killed easily.

No, it could get you a job.

if there are people who still think the same as the quoted person, then you haven't visited the middle east yet.

[Geoffrey S]

And what about the many blacks in America who have white blood in them, due to the large amount of children that slave owners had with slaves? If the mother is black and the father is white, what is the kid? Is he black?

One could argue in similar cases that it's down to upbringing, not the way one looks. Sort of "black on the outside, white on the inside". Which rather backs up the idea that race isn't a good basis on which to judge people, simply because in many cases broad prejudices aren't relevant to particular people.

[The Stranger]

yeah, but racists dont care, they usually just want someone to bash.