Free Thinking

[Don Corleone]

Hmm, I have an idea. How about if instead of signing on for an agenda, we all stop, think and address our own internal beliefs. You're a free-marketeer, radically anti-tax, yet pro-choice advocate, we want to hear from you. You think Trotsky was the bomb, hit every note, let's hear from you too. How about if we quit playing 'Who's team am I on and just stand up and say what we believe? Fair? Okay, I'll go first....

I think America has a right to exist. I think as a sovereign nation, we have a right to make our own rules about our land. While I might have commentaries about how laws go in other lands, I agree, at the end of the day, it's none of my business. I think we need to respect that right more in other lands than we have until now.

I think every man and woman has a right to defend themselves with whatever means they deem necessary. I suppose this is where the laughter begins (nope, I'm sure, I can distinctly hear Jag out there somewhere, supposing is over) but I honestly believe each and every individual is responsible for their own existence. While the government has an obligation to guarantee the right of its citizens to exist, at best, that must be viewed as a general right, and self defense must be thought of as an individual matter.

I think reproductive choice is a right. I also think babies have a right to exist. I draw the line at 'viability', according to today's science, that's 18 weeks. I see no reason to perform discretionary abortions beyond that, yet numbers tell me thousands happen here in the US every week.

I believe in a living wage. I also believe in company's right to pay workers what it deems as fair market value. The difference will either be absorbed or the worker, as an entrepreneur in the market of labor, will take his hours and expertise elsewhere. I also believe in a government oversight of small communities to make certain an entreperneur is not allowed to call themselves a domestic manufacturer unless >50% of their workers are domestic.

I believe in immigration. I believe every person has a right to be considred for entry into a host country. I also believe every host country has the right to set it's own immigration schedule, and 'blanket amnesties' as they are called do nothing but encourage the least desirable to break the law.

I believe in charity. I believe each and every one of us who can read what I am writing has been sufficiently blessed to pass some of what they have on to somebody else. I also believe that that talking about the poor, without shelling out, directly, is the worst kind of lie.

Christ, I sound like I'm running for office. And I'm really not. Every last one of you is a good person. I disagree with you all, frequently, but I know every one of you is just waiting to be engaged in some kind of process. Well, that process is you. Don't wait for it, it won't find you. If you know what I'm talking about shame on you for listening to me. But you really dont' know how to move on from here, assuming you've made it this far, here's a good link: http:www.heifer.org Go blow a wad of cash on these guys they're good and best of all, no thought process required. There!

[Soulforged]

Wow this thread will become large...
In any case this is what i believe for now:
-That there's always a truth and true knowledge that can and must be achived in every given opportunity by science, that represents this truth in every posible way. That religions should be "beheaded", that any one who still believes in some God keeps doing so, but there will be no institucionalization of the "church", that way cutting out their power over the earth. That moral points of view are acceptable, but those should never rule our lives, never become "moralists".
I believe in community. All of us must be the same before law and before economy, before society as a general, but everyone can be and will be different to the other in their own individual territory. The ones that maintain a better place in social structure must be attacked and thrown down in any opportunity, is the only way to keep community, and to reconcialiate the society with itself.
That true democracy should be the only fight as a community everytime that one or a group try to impose themselves.
That there is no races and no nations, but if anyone want to keep those differences then it should be with care that no hostile thoughts take over our actions. We're all humans no one is better than the other as a person.
That evolution should be the only goal as a community, leave all retrograd ideas in the past and look at a material future where things are defined by it's "name". That wars should be over forever, this are one of the worst obstacles to achieve community and to evolve. That rational thought should be the "rule" over our actions and nothing else.
For matters of community all private property (intelectual too) should be removed. And all individuals who can should work and produce.
That the state should seize to exist, and for that matter everyone should learn everything they can, so the society in general will be more educated, and for instance respond rationally in every case. That passion should be left for love, not for any other matters in social life.
That it's hard work and education on science wich makes a man evolve as human.
I believe that there's no God an no heaven, but i also believe that there's no death, and science will sometime in the future discover a way to stop human beings from dying and getting sick at all. Because of this i think that all technicalities concerning religion should be eliminated from the state, and should be as i said only an individual matter. Thus demonstrating that the state truly abandons all ideas of eternal power and showing that it in itself will some day, when it's not required anymore seize to exist.
That's basically all.

[JimBob]

Cheers to Don for starting this and the Heifer link, we need more stuff like that.

What I believe most fervently is in every individual's complete freedom to act and reason, but with that every individual's responsibility to account for their actions.
The right of every individual to food, clothing, shelter, and all other survival basics. As well as every individual's right to be free from oppression of every form.
I believe in a 'gift economy' based not on profit but on human interaction and community. A farmer farms because the community needs it, and the doctor saves people because they are sick.
I believe that politics should be about the day to day, about food, clothing, shelter, water, ect. And that politics as theory and in academia is harmful to the well being of all people.
I believe in peace, except in self defense, sometimes the only answer to violence is violence.
I believe in a society without distinction, class, race, ect only serve to limit.
I believe in the absolute value of those in cultural fields(says the writer), without literature, poetry, art, education the world would be a less wondrous place.
I lastly believe in the absolute power of every individual to change the world.

[Papewaio]

Learning is Life, Life is Learning.

I do not believe we are the only intelligence in the universe.

One day we will meet others.

I hope we have internally gotten over our differences that we can face an external civilisation with our heads high.

I also hope we havn't weakened ourselves to much not to be able to face an external threat.

As individuals we make choices. As adults we should take responsiblity for our choices.

Family is an important thing. It is the responsiblity of the parents first and foremost to raise their children. Any assistance from others either from the larger family, friends or society (government/school/hospitals etc) is a bonus. It should not be relied upon nor should it be ignored. Parents should do everything they can to help their children learn and socialise.

The role of government is to help the people. Where possible it fills in the gap, as a capitalist society we tend to be specialists, so we have knowledge gaps that the government should bridge when helping us to educate our children. Social welfare should be to income what public hospitals are to health. The individual should have the choice to take out both private income protection and private health insurance.

Pollution should be viewed as theft. A producer is passing off the cost of cleaning up to someone else.

Education for all should be secular and mixed sex. It should first teach the basics then tools like the ability to ask why? That differences are not in themselves bad. That there is consequences for evey action.

People should have the right to practise their religion and teach themselves outside of school. However no lifestyle even if it is labled a religion should have the right to impose itself negatively on others and vice a versa no lifestyle choice of others should be imposed on the religion.

So while people should have the right to a gay marriage, they do not have the right to make a particular religion marry them.

Equal oppourtunity should not be confused with equal pay.

[Ja'chyra]

First of all free thinking is dangerous

Here's my tuppence worth.

I believe that religion is ok for those who want it but that it has no place in politics, laws should be based on religious teachings.
I believe immigration should be controlled, anyone seeking to move here should apply in advance, also anyone being deported should be deported with all family members. Immigrants should have to learn our language and traditions and the emphasis should be on them integrating with us. They also shouldn't receive benefits unless absolutely necessary.
I believe that "homegrown" terrorists should be tried as traitors.
Serial rapists and paedophiles should be permanently removed from society.
Family comes first, always.
I don't think that we have any obligation to support the rest of the world, if people want to give then fine but it shouldn't be imposed. Charity spending could be part of a parties election proposals.
I believe that politicians should reflect the views of their constituants irrespective of their own personnal beliefs.
Education should be scientifically based, not religious.
Positive discrimination should be stopped. Political correctness should be reigned in, saying you're oppresed just because you're black judt doesn't cut it anymore, if you think you're oppressed then prove it.
Employers should be able to hire whoever they want and pay a fair wage, if you don't like what they offer don't work for them, that being said employers should not be able to change terms of employment without mutual agreement and without threats either overt or implied.
The unemployed should be put to work on community projects.
Politicians removed from office for scandal should not be allowed to return, neither should they be allowed to resign to avoid scandal.
Students should not expect a free ride, being asked to pay back grants when you start work is fair.
Convicted criminals have the right to food, shelter and to not be abused, not much else, definately not playstations, holidays or conjugal visits.
Abortion should be agreed by both parents and it shouldn't be treated as birth control.
There is no such thing as gay, black, muslim rights, only rights.

I think that's enough for now

[English assassin]

As I think Edmund Blackadder said when ask to explain himself, "I can't, its complicated"

On the whole I believe in the individual's right to make their own choices and mistakes, and I do not believe it is very much anyone elses business to be made to clean up after those mistakes (although if they do so voluntarily through charity that is a good thing.) I instinctively distrust all forms of collective action as they are often vehicles for the exercise of power by those who understand the rules of the collective, rather than genuinely ways to make life better.

But, and its a BIG but:

First, people need to be put in a position where they can make those choices. That means I think it is a collective responsibility to provide excellent education and, if need be, social support, to all children. I believe in a meritocracy. Provided there is equality of opportunity in each generation, (and there isn't yet) the inequalities that then arise because some are clever and some are not, some hard working and some not, worry me not at all.

Second some issues are plainly too big to be dealt with effectively on an individual level. Is General Motors one person? No. So its fine by me that its workforce unionises and also acts collectively. Can natural resources be protected through individual action? No, assuming we are economically rational, they cannot. So collective action is needed, and so on.

Third, I don't care how bad your choices were, there is a standard of living below which no one should sink. Yes, that includes serial child rapists living in jail.

I don't really give a monkeys about your lifestyle, assuming it doesn't hurt others. If you want to have a gay marriage with your two best friends and a gerbil called Cyril I don't really see that is my business. That said, if my son chose to do that I would be very upset. I haven't quite resolved this contradiction myself yet.

All of the above is subject to a get-out-of-jail common sense card. On the whole criminals should be punished, but if the evidence shows rehabilitation is more effective at preventing future crime (and in many cases it does), then rehabilitation it must be. Equally, don't bleat to me about ASBOs and civil liberties: the courts know a scrote when they see one. And so on.

And finally the more I see of religion the more I think it is a sickness. I suppose it has to be tolerated (see "I don't give a monkeys about your lifestyle" above), but I would tolerate it in the way i would tolerate drug use (eg this stuff is harmful, but its your life, if you know the facts and want to go ahead that's up to you.) I would though like to see it made illegal to preach any form of religion to the under 16s, as they are too young to be exposed to such indoctrination.

Because of my anti-collective prejudice I put myself in the (UK) Conservative party but I have to say I don't really share any of its specific views.

[bmolsson]

I think every man and woman has a right to defend themselves with whatever means they deem necessary. I suppose this is where the laughter begins (nope, I'm sure, I can distinctly hear Jag out there somewhere, supposing is over) but I honestly believe each and every individual is responsible for their own existence.

Does this mean that survival of the fittest is your model ?

The problem occur when each individuals defense doctrin starts to interfere with others defense doctrin. Suddenly the responsibility of your existence becomes destructive.......

[Idaho]

Potentially interesting thread - but I don't have time to read it!

I am a free market anarchist who believes in environmental protection and an aggressive space programme to colonise other planets! (inhales deeply on crack pipe)

[Azi Tohak]

Don for President!

I'll be back later to actually contribute though. Time for errands now.

Azi

[A.Saturnus]

I believe that without data, you only have an opinion. Politics should focus less on ideologies and more on information. But for a goal, for a goal the well-being of the greatest number of sentient beings should be longed for. Concepts as rights, duty, nation, culture, crime, guilt and freedom are only secundary to that.

[Pindar]

I believe in the pursuit of truth and virtue and that understanding the former may very well depend upon attainment of the latter.

I believe freedom isn't free and personal autonomy goes hand and hand with personal responsibility.

I believe popular sovereignty is superior to autocracy and that authoritarian models are by definition illegitimate.

I believe in market economies over and above command economies.

I believe more than Islamo-fascism, Leftism is the greatest threat to the U.S. as it rots from within. (Postestas Democraticorum Delenda Est!)

I believe in freedom of conscience.

I believe life has purpose.

[English assassin]

I believe that without data, you only have an opinion. Politics should focus less on ideologies and more on information.

I used to think that. But now I think it overlooks the basic irrationality of humankind, and the (positive as well as negative) creative possibilities that opens up in politics. A good politician can lead people in ways data suggests are impossible. Politics should be more than just management.

And also the difficulty with this as a point of view is that, as it is merely an opinion itself, it is self contradictory ;-)

[Kagemusha]

Here is my 5 cents.

First,I believe in love.Its the single best thing in this mad world.
I believe in God.It gives me comfort.
I believe in freedom.Im willing to die for it.
I believe in hard work.
I believe in truth.while it mostly just hurts me.
I believe that my life is not just for me,but for others as well.
I believe that every individual should have right to defend his or hers loved ones.
I believe in multicultural world.

I dont believe that my purpose in life is only to make money,while it helps a lot it doesnt make me happy.
I dont believe in death sentence.Instead i believe that the worst criminals should be put in to forced labour for rest of their lives.
Last i dont believe in elitism.I think that people who feel superior towards their fellow man are just people with low esteem.

-Kagemusha

[Reverend Joe]

Thank you, Don. If you need a favour, I will be happy to oblige.

Here we go:
1. Allow the Death Penalty, with the Texas Annendum (if more than 3 people saw you perform the crime, you do not wait on death row- you are immediately sent to the execution room). The evidence that crime went down when the death penalty was illegal was correlational, not causal. Besides, some people just have to be cleared from the gene pool.

2. Lift all bans on smoking except at hospitals and on airplanes. Secondhand smoke is not particularly dangerous; besides, studies that say otherwise are questionable- it's funny how studies always come out the way the scientist wants them to.

3. Legalise all abortions. Until the baby exits the womb, it is the woman's property, and it is not technically a living organism.

4. Allow stem-cell research. It's not a living being, it's jelly.

5. Nationalise the airlines. They are not going to survive on their own; the only reason they are here is because they have been bailed out twice (that I know of).

There's some other stuff, but I don't feel like taking an hour on my post.

[Devastatin Dave]

I believe I smell my dinner burning!?!?!

[Reverend Joe]

I believe I smell my dinner burning!?!?!

You don't look like mister Corleone... anyway, when I said "favour", I meant something more along the lines of beheading someone's horse and...

I've said too much.

[AntiochusIII]

We know ourselves the best and yet the worst. I do not presume I could just type out all my political positions and claim "this is me!" with full voice. If anyone wants to judge me they are free to do so from my posts in the board and from my actions real life if they know me. (None in this board, of course)

Let my actions speak for me rather than my words. I'll be here and amuse myself with how people judge and misjudge me.

[Steppe Merc]

Well, lets see here.

I believe that a government that does not serve the people and only exists to serve itself should not exist. The only point of allowing people so much power is to allow them to help others, otherwise they shouldn't be allowed to have so much power.

Big buisnesses should not be allowed to influence the government, rather, the government should keep the buisnesses on a very short leash to insure that they provide fair products and services, are fair to their emploies, and do not ruin the enviornment any more than they already have.

All life is precious, whether it is a murderer or a cow. Executing criminals is wrong, as is making animals suffer for whatever reason.

Abortion ought to be legal for 18 weeks, then only if the mother's life is threatened or if the baby is going to be hideously deformed or challenged.

It is no buisness of the government if people choose to poison themselves through drink, cigarrettes or drugs. I am still unsure whether or not the really hard stuff ought to be legal, but the obvious drugs should be.

Religous people have a right to participate in politics, as long as they leave me alone. I don't follow your religon, though I may respect it's original code of ethics it has been warped so far out of how it was originally intended, I want nothing to do with it.

Making kids go to church and indoctarating them into your way of belief before they relize what it is all about is just cruel.

Nations can exist, until we evolve towards a less terrotrial way of government. However, just because your born in place A doesn't make you more special from a person from place B.

Families are extremely important. It doesn't matter if there are a mom and a dad, a mom, two dads, an adoptive parents, whatever. But the people that raise you and care for you are extremely important.

The only time when any sort of religon can be in school is when discussing it's historical relevance or philosphy. School can never claim one is better than another, or support any sort of religon.

Enviornmental concerns trump that of buisnesses.

You can't trust politicians. The two party system is foolish and corrupt.

Probably missing some big things, but it's what I came up with. And I must say, many people here I would far rather vote for than any sort of standard politician, especially in the Democratic party.

[Adrian II]

Christ, I sound like I'm running for office.

Yes, you do. And it should set off some alarm bells in your head. I believe you are reproducing a familiar political agenda (free choice, free market, right to bear arms) instead of formulating the 'inner beliefs' you want to address. And you're not the only one in this thread. I guess it goes to show that we are not as free-thinking as we would like.

Go blow a wad of cash on these guys they're good and best of all, no thought process required.

No thought process required? Now you really sound as if you are running for office!

OK, OK, Im joking, but...

My inner beliefs are hard to put into words and I'd rather steal Blackadder's words as well. Anyway, I have some 'core' beliefs that I can state without being ashamed of their apparent lack of coherence.

I believe man is free, even though I am not sure -- I am willing to take my chances with it.
I believe man's sole purpose is to follow his heart, enlightened by what little rational capacities he has.
I believe life is inherently incomplete and needs love to survive the knowledge of its own darkness.
Oh, and God forbid that all my wishes came true, because I would be profoundly unhappy for it.

Confused now? And those are only my core beliefs. Wait till I tell you.. then again, I'd better not.