Some modest results with force_diplomacy

[Dromikaites]

Hi!

I am currently playing with the force_diplomacy command in order to mod the diplomacy.

Here's the first script which worked:

script

command_console force_diplomacy accept

end_script

The script was loaded at the begining of the game, through the descr_strat.txt

I started the game as Julii, moved my armies and diplomat north and in the second turn I've besieged Mediolanum (owned by the Gauls) in order to have a war. In the same 2nd turn my diplomat offered them to become protectorate and they've accepted even though they've still owned all their starting provinces. So the command worked.

The next turn I tried to get money out of my Gaulish subjects and asked them for 100 denarii without offering anything in exchange. They've refused. I asked the Senate for the same and got nothing again. Aparently the command works only once then it needs to be reactivated.

I also wanted to see what happens when AI approaches the human player while the command is still valid. So I refrained from initiating any diplomatic activity and waited for the AI to contact me. The Gaulish diplomat came to me and offered me trade rights. I rejected the offer and there were no automatic trade rights granted to the Gauls. Then I wanted to check if the command was still effective and started a war with Gaul only to offer them protectorate the same turn. It worked again.

So it seems that only the human player benefits from it. However it would be interestig to see if AI vs AI can use it. I'll keep you posted with the results.

A question: did anyone manage to use Bribery and FootInTheDoor as diplomats' traits in any meaningful way to influence the outcome of the diplomatic activities? I've tested the effect of a various levels of the Bribery trait on the size of the requested bribe and it didn't seem to make any difference (in theory it was supposed to reduce the amount of money needed)

[militiaman]

I suppose this would help with things like protectorates of say the roman empire at the start of the game (as it can't be done through the descr_strat).

Now a question: How loyal is the AI to these diplomatic agreements? Like with your protectorate did they break it quickly? It would be good if the AI didn't break some of these agreements, in something like an alliance.

[Dromikaites]

I suppose this would help with things like protectorates of say the roman empire at the start of the game (as it can't be done through the descr_strat).

Now a question: How loyal is the AI to these diplomatic agreements? Like with your protectorate did they break it quickly? It would be good if the AI didn't break some of these agreements, in something like an alliance.

According to one of Jerome Grasdyke's posts the AI doesn't break the protectorate. However the Senat behaves a little bit strange. Yesterday I did some more testing with the protectorate obtained through force_diplomacy.

I used the same script but this time I waited for the Senate to order me to take Patavium. The I dashed north, laid siege to that city triggering a war with Gaul and immediately offering them protectorate. No surprise they've accepted it. However the Senate still kept counting the turns, waiting for me to take Patavium.

[Lord Adherbal]

I doubt that will be a usefull command if they will accept anything the player asks. Except for testing or cheating purposes that is.

diplomacy_mission and diplomatic_stance are much more promising if you want to improve diplomacy.

[Dromikaites]

I doubt that will be a usefull command if they will accept anything the player asks. Except for testing or cheating purposes that is.

diplomacy_mission and diplomatic_stance are much more promising if you want to improve diplomacy.

He, he, anything needs to be used with moderation . We can use it to force the AI to accept protectorates when it has only one province left and we have a huge army near his capitol.

[SigniferOne]

What I'm wondering about is whether we'll be able to effect a Protectorate with any diplomatic missions... because that's the really cool diplomatic stance that does not have as much limelight as it deserves. So far I'm a bit bummed that the command that forces diplomatic stance only has ally/enemy/neutral, but I am hoping that these commands which FORCE a faction to accept a diplomatic proposal will be able to force it to accept protectorate.

[Dromikaites]

What I'm wondering about is whether we'll be able to effect a Protectorate with any diplomatic missions... because that's the really cool diplomatic stance that does not have as much limelight as it deserves. So far I'm a bit bummed that the command that forces diplomatic stance only has ally/enemy/neutral, but I am hoping that these commands which FORCE a faction to accept a diplomatic proposal will be able to force it to accept protectorate.

The little piece of code I posted does force AI to accept protectorate. Even if it has all its armies and territories intact. What I do in order to limit the abuse is to put a few conditions before, like the target faction to have only one province left.

[SigniferOne]

Oh oops, I missed the middle part of that post. Nice ! Let's hope we can make it somehow work for AI/AI, when BI comes out..

[Dromikaites]

I had the time to test more the effects of force_diplomacy. For those who want to explore it, here's a small piece of code that would make sure the command is fired permanently:

script

declare_counter loop ;We declare the counter called "loop" and we will test the value of "loop" with the last "while" instruction of the script

console_command force_diplomacy accept

while I_CompareCounter loop = 0
end_while ;Since loop is always 0 the script doesn't end

end_script

Of course, this pice of code would be a fun-spoiler in any mod but its only purpose is to investigate its effects.

What works besides getting protectorates:

1. Buying maps for 10 denarii
2. Getting other factions to support you ("Attack faction X") for 10 denarii
3. Buying cities for 10 denarii

Of course, if you think 10 denarii is a too high price for a city you can use the "Accept or we attack" line.

What doesn't work? To get 1000 denarii in exchange for 10 denarii .

The interesting thing is AI gets pissed off if you buy his maps or if you get his support for 10 denarii so you get "Transgression" messages.

[Epistolary Richard]

Interesting stuff, Dromikaites. Thanks, maybe a solution to the "AI lack of giving up" thread that was posted here a while back.

Does that script work? Wouldn't you need to put the command inside the while loop?

[Dromikaites]

Interesting stuff, Dromikaites. Thanks, maybe a solution to the "AI lack of giving up" thread that was posted here a while back.

Does that script work? Wouldn't you need to put the command inside the while loop?

Yes, it does work. Give it a try . The loop does only one thing: cicles indefinitely preventing the script form ending. If you want to, you can put the console_command inside it. For some reason, if the script doesn't end the command is permanently active even though it's outside the while loop. Maybe this feature in itself could be used in some way by creative people.

Anyway, the code such as it is now takes all the fun from the game. So it's only for testing the command's effects, not for playing. (The emphasis is not intended for Richard, who's an experienced scripter - thanks for your excellent scripting guide!)

Making AI more "reasonable" is something we work on at Imperium: Total War. And we're looking forward to BI because some of the new scripting features look very promissing. I'll keep reporting progress made with tweaking the diplomacy.

[Olmsted]

If I wanted to put this script into my descr_strat.txt so that I could get protectorates from the AI, how would I go about doing that? Where in the descr_strat.txt would I put the actual script - and what would be the best way to put in the script?

I promise not to use this information for evil - only for good - I'm just sick of having to exterminate AI factions with 1 city, 3 family members and a militia hoplite unit who won't accept that their last city is under siege by a full stack and will fall within the next turn.

Any help would be most appreciated...

[The_Mark]

If you use it as a descr_strat script (or a "campaign script") it disables you from saving games, though if you'd like to use it there you'll have to make a new .txt into your campaign folder and add a script entry at the bottom of the descr_strat.

The entry:

script
script_file.txt


Or, you can use it as an event script. The procedures to do that are AFAIK in Richard's guides. With that you'd be able to toggle the script on and off as an added bonus.

[Olmsted]

Thank you, Mark. I will look at the guide to scripting. Your assistance is much appreciated. Happy Holidays!

[Olmsted]

If I wanted to run this script, where in the descr_strat.txt would I put it? Can I just stick it at the end?