Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

[Flavius Merobaudes]

There's no testudo formation in BI, but if you really want it, you can easily mod it in.

Just open the export_descr_units in your RTW/data folder. Search for legionnaires. There is one line which lists the possible formations for the unit. Look for something like testudo.

Copy that entry, open the exp_descr_unit in your BI folder and attach it to any unit you want (comitatenses, plumbatarii, first cohorts?).

There you are. Although forming a testudo is a bit strange with those oval shields.

I have the game currently uninstalled, so I can't be more specific on the edu entries and can't test if this really works, but I'm pretty sure it does.

[Gizmo04]

Yeah it would wouldn't it... those oval shileds are cool, but Testudo goes better with long rectangular shields. Ok I'll give the modding a shot see how it goes. Thanks Flavius I'll get back to this forum and give feedback if it works or not.

[Gizmo04]

Erm... bad news, for me. I tried to do the modding myself and I somehow screwed up my game. Everytime I uploaded the game it cut out at the Sega bit. So I had to uninstall EVERYTHING, the 1.6 patch my Invasio Barbarioum mod my initial game... I lost my saves... sob... I installed everything back though just the now. Still I never quit!!! The Western Empire will make a COME BACK!!!!

Thanks for the Idea though Flavius. I appreciate the help, maybe I did something else if the mod does work with you. When it comes to modding I'm kind-of, hate to admit it, but a newbie. I'd rather not tamper with the coding myself incase, example above, happens again.

Again, thanks Flavius. it was a good idea

[Gizmo04]

Ok started the game again, stabilized my Empire, no probs now with all the fantastic advice However I have a tiny problem, well quite massive when the hordes come and I'm effectively buggered!!! But I just wanted to know, about the advice on having a "border force" as it was. The army guarding the entry points into your empire, how many is reasonable and what do they/ could they be? I seem to place just three unit cards of Limitanei at each bridge because I'm building a rather large force, the biggest I've ever made, and I'm now exceeding my budget . So could I have recommendations from anyone on what troops to train and where to put them, just as suggestions ofcourse lol.
Thanks a million!!

[Flavius Merobaudes]

Hi, Gizmo. Sorry you had such bad problems. For me it works fine. If you decide to try modding any time again, remember to save the original files first.

I installed the game because I wanted to know if it works - and my comitatenses are now quite as versatile as legionnaires, although I must admit I use the testudo very rarely.

In case you want to try this:
-> open Rome-Total War\BI\data

-> open export_descr_unit

-> search plumbatarii

-> look for the formation line:
original: formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square

-> change to: formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square, testudo


If I had to guess I'd say you forgot the comma between square and testudo.

To your second question: I usually place some "border patrols" myself, too. That's what limitanei are for. I use only one unit at every bridge to deny access to foreign agents. Some kind of passport control. Later I upgrade to 2 limitanei and 1 archers.

I don't have problems to repel the Celts and take Dal Riada myself. Likewise the Moors are no threat. The Rhine frontier is save at first and might be "horded" later on, but you are strong then.

I found the problem in the beginning is to defend against the hordes that come across the balkan or hungary. To deal with that, I train Sarmatian Auxilia in Aquincum. I try to have a stack of at least 12 of them under a good general (night-fighter) in Pannonia (Aquincum region) or Campus Jazyges. That's were all my upkeep goes in the first 20 turn until I'm economically stabilized.

BTW, I went christian from turn one and concentrated one ports, roads, markets (in that order) except for a few unavoidable public order buildings. I disbanded all fleets and nearly all foederati. The first turn is all about: What building will I demolish in order to get the money for those churches? and What can I disband without loosing too much public order.

[JagLover]

I'm currently playing as the Western Empire on the hardest level of difficulty and I am doing fairly well.

Some observations

Units

Probably the best unit pound for pound is the carriage ballistre(can be produced in Rome). Keep them away from any battle where the enemy has horse archers and they can hammer the enemy battle after battle and take no casualties. Against the Franks I killed over a hundred of them in one battle with one such unit and they kill the more heavily armoured as easily as they do peasants.

I notice above that many advocate disbanding the Commitaries and cavalry as the first step. Personally I find the Commitaries, Samartian auxiliries, General cavalry and the above mentioned carriage Ballister to be the only units which are any good as the Western Empire. Archers are cheap so are well worth having and Foederenti infantry are only of use against cavalry.

Litimani often fight as well as Peasant units. They should not be relied upon to hold for long.

General Strategy. Eliminate immediate threats to not only gain cash but gain time. The first target should be the Allemande. Your free units in Italy and in Gaul are only a few turns away and they are relatively weak. Then the large army you have gathered can take out the Franks. Admitedly they then become a horde and are troublesome to wipe out. But left in place the Franks are a continual threat.

In Britain you have sufficient force to take the Celtish city in the North. Sack the city and then leave it for the Western Rebels.

As for the rest of the Empire abandon those cities which cannot be held. With careful attention to religion and tax rates however this should only be 3-4 cities. These cities can be sacked later for extra cash.

Disband as much of your fleet that you can get away with and sell as many military buildings as possible.

I have concentrated on making each city a single religion (whichever is predominant at the start) so the empire is a mixture of Pagan and Christian, but not each city.

[JagLover]

Carriage ballistae - these guys are no "limited practical usage ... novelty"!! With the possible exception of generals bodyguards, there is no more ridiculously overpowered uber-unit in the game! And these guys are much more entertaining to use than the generals. In any open field battle not involving a horde, you will win if you have one of these. They're fine against hordes, too, you just have to be very careful that the horse archers don't stray too close - bridge battles work well, as always. They are pretty useless in city fights, but the Roman factions already dominate those so that's not a big deal.
.

Agreed

They can be awesome. If you can target an enemy General they can take out most of his guard by themselves. Enemy cavalry can chase them but tend to be wiped out before they manage to close with them. In a good battle they can severly weaken many of an enemies strongest units, Chosen swordsmen etc, and all for the cost of 900.

Their one weakness is horse archers. Simply restricting them to fighting the Northern Tribes means you can keep them away from them.

[Gizmo04]

I'm currently playing as the Western Empire on the hardest level of difficulty and I am doing fairly well.

Some observations

Units

Probably the best unit pound for pound is the carriage ballistre(can be produced in Rome). Keep them away from any battle where the enemy has horse archers and they can hammer the enemy battle after battle and take no casualties. Against the Franks I killed over a hundred of them in one battle with one such unit and they kill the more heavily armoured as easily as they do peasants.

I notice above that many advocate disbanding the Commitaries and cavalry as the first step. Personally I find the Commitaries, Samartian auxiliries, General cavalry and the above mentioned carriage Ballister to be the only units which are any good as the Western Empire. Archers are cheap so are well worth having and Foederenti infantry are only of use against cavalry.

Litimani often fight as well as Peasant units. They should not be relied upon to hold for long.

General Strategy. Eliminate immediate threats to not only gain cash but gain time. The first target should be the Allemande. Your free units in Italy and in Gaul are only a few turns away and they are relatively weak. Then the large army you have gathered can take out the Franks. Admitedly they then become a horde and are troublesome to wipe out. But left in place the Franks are a continual threat.

In Britain you have sufficient force to take the Celtish city in the North. Sack the city and then leave it for the Western Rebels.

As for the rest of the Empire abandon those cities which cannot be held. With careful attention to religion and tax rates however this should only be 3-4 cities. These cities can be sacked later for extra cash.

Disband as much of your fleet that you can get away with and sell as many military buildings as possible.

I have concentrated on making each city a single religion (whichever is predominant at the start) so the empire is a mixture of Pagan and Christian, but not each city.

Yeah I have to agree, the carriage ballistae are highly effective troops. I have a few of them, they are quite expensive, but worth it! I used them against a Hunnic horde as they crossed from the Eastern Empire into my lands via the mountains, which is an effective natural barrier!
Thanks for the tips guys they've been helpful, oh the testudo modding, I'm a bit sceptical on the DIY modding lol, I'll screw it up again so I'll just leave it. Apparently the reformations of Constantine, from my own research, abandoned the testudo because it was ineffective against barbarian hordes. Personally I thought it was always great!! However... personally my favourite faction has to be the Western Empire, for its location and the mix of barbarian troops.

Yeah I also agree the Foederati are only really good for anti-light cavalry. They can take some heavy cavalry units, including the bodyguard, but don't get your hopes up as they do get mauled sometimes.

Oh and the Celts, yeah I just focused on establishing forts up near Caledonia just to hold them off, I don't really plan on conquering them because, well I'm scottish lol, so a bit a sympathy goes out there, plus they are quite difficult to beat as they have quite good units!

Ah yes Chrisitanity... well I just followed history... half the time, I, now, always change the Western Empire to christianity because of the loyalty benefits (Green faces all over the place... eventually) Which I find is most helpful considering it eases internal stife to a LONG era of peace so I can focus on external affiars.

Oh and Flavius, its ok no need to apoligise... lol I did forget the comma , I didn't notice but now its ok.

[Gizmo04]

Just a thought, has anyone ever tried to play the Western Empire turning it towards christianity and keeping the empire, relatively, intact without destroying buildings? , apart from pagan temples ofcourse!

I tried this, with... some... success and somehow I managed to keep Spain? First time thats happened, abviously the African coast you can keep simply same with Italy but when it cam to, what was, Gaul and Brittania they went green pretty quick. I just hate destroying the military buildings, then rebuilding them afterwards, Although they help in the retaking of the settlements, in the long term you have to upgrade them back, some, to what they were to face the hordes... properly.

To those who have played it as a pagan empire, would you say, in your opinion, that its better keeping it pagan overall?

[Phoenix]

In my game, I let each city keep the religion it started with aside for a couple border settlements that I switched to Mithra with no problems. Generally though, I'd say the pagan temples are better...Mithra give your troops a +2 experience bonus while Sol Invictus gives a 20% bonus to Law and gives the governor a 20% Law bonus trait which cuts down corruption by alot. Another thing is that Christianity gives more Public Order than Sol Invictus only if you build the Abbey line of buildings as well and they give the governor a trait that reduces trade income by up to 30%, if you don't then Sol Invictus's +20% Law and +10% Happiness beats the Christian Basilica's +10% Law and +15% Happiness.

[Vitellus]

I just felt it necessary to convert my entire empire to Christianity

a) I felt a duty to save my virtual citizen's souls, being a Christian meself
b) I didn't like the different regions influencin' and convertin' each other and causin' trouble.

So I just levelled temples and built shrines instead. I lost most of western Gaul, all of Spain save Corduba, and the Empire east of the Adriatic. A few quick sackings and exterminations later and I had no more religion problems for the rest of the game.

[Gizmo04]

I just felt it necessary to convert my entire empire to Christianity

a) I felt a duty to save my virtual citizen's souls, being a Christian meself
b) I didn't like the different regions influencin' and convertin' each other and causin' trouble.

So I just levelled temples and built shrines instead. I lost most of western Gaul, all of Spain save Corduba, and the Empire east of the Adriatic. A few quick sackings and exterminations later and I had no more religion problems for the rest of the game.

Lol Vitellus I understand, gotta save them or be virtually smited!! Plus paganism is just wrong...

Also I finally made an alliance with a barbarian faction, first time in since I bought the game! The vandals believe it or not were the ones I picked, or rather more accurate, they picked me. Word of advise, don't ally with them, they'll stab you in the back when they resume their hordic life, typical babarians!!! FILTH!!!! Anyway, I have started to invest in Carrage Ballistae in Rome, right now in my campaign I have reformed all the provinces I owned at the begining to be Christian and I the ones I assimilated, lol love that word, were Viscus Allemani and campus... something or other, its the one above Aquincum, I turned them christian aswell. So with two new territories, one faction wiped out, an economy churning out 14,000 denari a turn and a border force at each bridge comprising of 2 Limitanei and 1 archer I think I'm doing relatively well. Considering its 368AD. I have the celts pinned up at Caledonia with my fort and assassin doing a fine job by the way!! I recommend sending him up to hinder there family members. I only have to kill the faction leader now with him, but he'll adopt more and thats what I want... practise...

Any other ideas guys, although you've given me enough and I'm thank ful, but things are going TOO good, infact this campaign has been relatively easy compared to my last 50 tries Still I think I'm going to get a HUGE wake up call... something like a coalition of hordes knocking at my door... but I hope not...

[Greacia_Roma]

Something that bothers me is that there are no people who think that pagan gods are good. i mean good for u christian is wonderful but the romans built the empire on pagan gods i enjoy staying pagan.

[Severous]

I went pagan in post 113

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=113

[Phoenix]

I stay pagan whenever I play the WRE.

[Gizmo04]

Well I did it, I played the Western Roman Empire and stayed PAGAN, yep thats right I went heathenistic lol. Anyway I believe that if you want to keep 2/3 of your empire intact quite easily go with paganism becuase the neighbouring barbarian towns are mostly pagan so there will be no regional conflict, not much anyway. As some people have mentioned going pagan allows for some nice troop vetran upgrades, however the downside with me was that the stabilisation of my economy took longer than it did being Christian, as going christian makes the people immediately turn from revolting to happy so I could focus on my economy straight away, with paganism I seen too many blue faces, some yellow, so I had to focus, I think, three turns on making them yellow or green then I built ports, roads, markets/forums/traders and communal farming etc.

Somehow after the "Martyrdom of Esubuis" the hordes came and I had quite a small yet highly experienced army protecting my lands from the hordes, which just arrived at this historical part of time. I just vanquished the Ostrogoths, Vandals and Sarmatians... next the HUNS!!!!

In my opinion though, I preffered sticking to history and making the Roman culture turn to Christianity.

Side note: I would just like to make clear that my views on paganism is no way a racial slur on them, I have a wide acceptance and understanding for other religions and I, in all honesty, I am a Roman Catholic not a "practacing" Roman Catholic becuase I do not believe in any religion that dictates how I should live, I DO however follow laws.

[The_crusader]

I found that its actualy easyer to control the falling Wester empirer by staying pagan,of course there are some cities that want to convert so I let them convert I found that the region of Italie could be easely controled if they are christian...

And I too followed histories foot steps and started to go on a christian rampage at around the year 425 when Theodosus made christianety the new dominant religions,sorry Mithras...it was fun but its Jesus's turn now

[Mithras]

I wrote a pretty good essay on Paganism vs Christianity on the previous page. astheticly I prefer Paganism becouse it seems more 'Roman' combined with the profound stupidity and arrogence of the dark ages. Plus when I go Christian I keep getting flashes of Pat Robertson and The God channel in the back of my head.

I also spend a lot of time tinkering with Pagan traits. The priest and mystics have conversion values in my game

...it was fun but its Jesus's turn now

The neo pagans will harken my return in time.

I'll be starting my final section of revision soon-economics and Strategy.

[rvg]

Well, WRE is mostly Pagan from the start anyway, and it is far easier to fully paganize it than Christianize it. Just as ERE is the exact opposite and should always go Christian all the way.
Aside from convenience though, there is little reason even for WRE to be Pagan, as Roman troops are tough enough to be more than a match for barbarians even without the +2 exp bonus from the Mithras temple line... besides, Cathedrals/Monasteries mean more happiness and growth, which in turn means more tax revenue, which in turn would allow me to recruit yet another Silver Sword/Shield 1st Cohort out of the eternal city.
Anyhow, most of my WRE games tend to favor a mixed religion empire with Christianity slowly replacing Paganism over the course of several decades.

[Boyar Son]

I could NOT beat this without cheats guys (only money and fog of war).


Rome (in the city) has good troops use them for EMERGENCIES only, cuz the barbs will swarm all over northern italy.

[Robespierre]

one observation about the wre situation, is to say this:
BE A CRUSTY!
do not bother to build hygiene structures in the first 50 turns, no matter how much unhappiness is begotten by the squalor. Why? because baths and aquaducts and all such fripperies only encourage the people to breed faster and the population then grows, to the point a city again becometh froward.

WRE early game is about Crisis Management. there is not enough spare cash to cover plug the tech-tree gap in all the burgeoning cities. Be Ruthless. if possible get the imperial palace in a town; then pull the garrison, raise the taxes, and slaughter the people! from an authoritarian angle, cadavers have one thing to be said for them: they never rebel again!

i am into redistribution of wealth. you sack a city and the loot can now be redistributed. in other towns, first get up your trading ports and markets, basic temples, then the academy line. this gives the governors management bonuses. this is martial law, it is scorched earth, it is total war.

[Robespierre]

my continuing campaign: wre, hard/very hard. the year 384 and for the western empire, the emergency goes on. in Gaul, the goths, sarmatians, the celts and the saxons share in the task of mashing up one anothers' armies and slaughtering the civilian population. occassionally a roman army will join in the fun. the job for now is to contain these barbarous peoples in the north, from where they cannot threaten the mediterranean core.

celtic armies are fun to fight. some turns back they routed an unlead half-stack of comitatenses. varre, redde mihi legiones, or whatever. it helped keep costs down at any rate. it is vital to concentrate on the berserkers, or they will rout your centre. use throwing sticks, make berserker kebabs. double line is best. infiltrate with cavalry and throw their numerous light skirmishers into disarray. 'old the line and mop up.


i note that ere is outperforming us economically and i reckon the solution has to be to invade them and steal the aegean trade zone. plenty more bloodshed then. and all those unique talents of the early family are into their late 50s. time to start reshuffling. mind you, some of the young pagans do look promising.

[Robespierre]

trade zones. money. all in all its what the fightings all about.. now the homeless hordes have been liquidated, its 399 and wre in engaged on two fronts. in the north, celts and saxons. in the east, ERE. both conflicts are waged by sea and land. the prizes are the profitable sea trade routes of the aegean and north sea.win these campaigns, the game is in my lap.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

Hi Tacticus, glad to see there is still somebody here to defend the Roman empire. So you lost Britain... Did you really lose it to the Celts or did you leave deliberately? I know the hordes can be a problem (they were in my games), but I thought it was easy to keep the Celts at bay, the Saxons even more so.
And is the ERE a worthy counterpart that offers some resistance? Let me know as you continue...

[Robespierre]

i stripped back the army in turn one, so severely that the island was undefended. the governor was shipped south due to his good loyalty. the thing with the celts is, there's alot of em. cheap troops. the balance is now flowing back my way (i just destroyed two stacks in the woods south of Samobriva but there is a third stack waiting). they clearly "plot to become a power", got a foothold while my attention was occupied with the hordes, and now have alot of boats too. it is sheer attrition.

[Robespierre]

So far, so good. land forces ERE and the celtic enemy have collapsed. but by sea the conflicts are far from over. both factions boast powerful navies. sea-trade is the lifeblood of the empire, and considerable funds must be spent on countering this new threat. meanwhile, with abbeys built in all the italian cities, i am starting to paganize again. this involves daily games and a travelling troupe of pagan character party-animals. sol invictus rules ok!

[Magister Militum Titus Pullo]

My first act as playing the Western Roman Empire would be increasing my treasury (in other words, cheating), queueing up construction projects in all my cities, recruiting as many units as I can, and of course, destroying every christian building blighting my empire. Historically, Rome turned to decline when it accepted the "light" of Christ into their lives, so the quicker I return the empire back to its rightful gods (forgetting for a second that Mithras was persian) the better. Also, I would like to make the twenty-six year-old governor of Salamantica, one Marcellus Flavius, the new Caesar of the west.
The man has "Superior Commander", "Into the Breach" and "Local Hero" amongst his traits. After investing him as the heir of the west, I then despatch him from his governorship in Lusitania to take command of the legions I am levying in Italia and Gaul. Thats what Rome needs: a young an vigorous soldier to reunify the empire and to destroy those feral and villainous barbarians that would supplant it.

[edward13]

Thanx4 al ur comments, played wre on md/md did e usu of disbanding e ext units witin e city so e pop grows;-)bt banded e affordable ones to fight off e hordes:-)did al that lt ma provinces rebel bt wit lesser strength units, gt them al bak decimated e hordes as they came along wit sm real cool ambushes! ma1st strike was alway an ambush,wit commis n sarmat cav GuD n affordable!i'm weird cos i hate chasing Dwn ha's unLk most players i really find

[edward13]

so to cut e long story short Nw I've gt e map upto half wy point of black sea n al e wy to e north sea,british isles, north africa upto lepsis mag. made a beach head in asia minor fr constant:-)Nw watchin e ErE fal apart due2 internal rebellions n e battered sassa makin half hearted skirmishes. Nw It's more of a diplomatic battle wit a thumping coffer! dictating terms wit ma agents:-)bt ma BST generals are loosing loyalty:-(wen they fight rebels

[edward13]

wel Nw I've got almost 1/2e map half wy mark of black sea north n south,british isles,north africa up to lepsis magna,a beach head in asia minor,took it fr constant!ma fighting army consist of commis archers n sarmat cav! i counter cav wit cav,e enemy usu goes for ma commis bt while they're on them i flank wit ma sarmat! decisive blow! take Dwn their e charging enemy infant wit ma 3-4stack archers.oh by e wy i've played by hist n turned e empire