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Thread: A modder's guide to CTDs

  1. #1
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default A modder's guide to CTDs

    My hope is to generate a long list of exactly what can cause errors throughout all of RTW. I would love to be able to compile and update this list. I hope we continue to have participation, even if only adding a few here and there.

    EDU = /data/export_descr_unit.txt
    DMB = /data/descr_model_battle.txt

    RTW Loading CTDs:
    - Mismatch between descr_names.txt and names.txt

    Loading Screen Slowdowns:
    - campaign_descriptions.txt must have less than 1000 characters per line and less than 20 lines per faction, or file load time is increased by 85%

    Faction selection screen:
    - Lack of campaign descriptions.

    Campaign Map Loading Kick to Main Menu:
    - Typographical error in descr_strat.txt
    - Overwriting rather than deleting and then copying an update of map tga files
    - Resource not defined in EDB
    - Typo in building capabilities in EDB

    Campaign Map Loading CTDs:
    - Landmass ratio problem causes a CTD when loading the campaign map.
    - A named character has an invalid name in descr_strat.
    - The game is loaded but the screen is centered onto a buggy region (see the campaign map scrolling CTDs).

    In Campaign Mode CTDs:
    During play/AI turn:
    - A family member being generated without a general_unit for the faction.
    - A new character is generated and not given a valid name.
    - Some building bonuses in the same building level as certain unit recruitment strings (this will happen both during AI turn and when the building is right-clicked).
    - Units able to be recruited in EDB but no faction "ownership" for a faction in EDU.
    - Units added to descr_rebel_factions.txt but no slave faction ownership in EDU.
    - Units added to descr_mercenaries.txt but no mercenary_unit in EDU.
    - Bad defined type of unit for army spawned via script file
    - Mismatch between export_desc_character_traits.txt and export_VnVs.txt entries causes CTD when viewing the portrait of a named character with the bad trait.

    Scrolling over campaign map:
    - Not enough province/settlements on a too large map (fix : add provinces on the map/may be fixed with BI) causes CTD while scrolling the map.
    - Error with the rebel faction/settlement owner and or creator (when you scroll over a given settlement)
    - Some hidden resources can cause CTDs when you scroll over the region.

    Custom Battle Menu Selection CTD:
    - If you forgot to put in the second (or first) skeleton to units with secondary attacks in EDU.txt, the game CTDs the moment your mouse arrow reaches that unit in the menu.

    Battle Loading CTDs:
    - A unit with the attribute mercenary_unit in EDU that has no texture line for "merc" in the soldier, officer, and other related models found in DMB.
    - A non-mercenary_unit in EDU that has no texture line in DMB for any faction given ownership of the unit in EDU, for the soldier, officer, and other related models.
    - A sprite defined in DMB with no distance value.

    In Battle Mode CTDs:
    - Bad defined formations for Human Player (i.e. mainly changing names of formations in "descr_formations.txt" file)

    BI specific:
    - A reference to spawn event in descr_sm_factions and have modded the game to include those factions at the start date will CTD on AI's turn.
    Last edited by khelvan; 01-02-2006 at 07:26.
    Cogita tute


  2. #2
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Excellent idea - and something I was thinking about myself just over the last 2 days. I hope some KTMs can be included too...

    CAMPAIGN KTMs (Kick-back To Menu)

    - typographical error in descr_strat.txt

    - faction/culture applied to inappropriate building tree or level (only Carthaginian has thus far been identified as causing this)

    - overwriting rather than deleting and then copying an update of map tga files (don't ask me why!)


    In this regard it might be an idea for someone to list the order in which files are processed or part-processed/compiled...
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."

  3. #3
    Shaidar Haran Senior Member SAM Site Champion Myrddraal's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Ambitious, but potentially very useful. It might be an idea to split it into four categories:
    In Battle Mode CTD
    In Campaign Mode CTD
    Battle Loading CTD
    Campaign Map Loading CTD

    off the top of my head: doesn't the landmass ratio problem cause a CTD when loading the campaign map?
    Last edited by Myrddraal; 04-26-2006 at 15:35.

  4. #4
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Custom Battle menu selection CTD: if you forgot to put in the second (or first) skeleton to units with secondary attacks in EDU.txt, the game CTDs the moment your mouse arrow reaches that unit in the menu.

  5. #5

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    For KTM's I have, resource not defined in EDB?, not exact quote, in descr_regions.txt, german should have been germania. In the mercenary txt file, merc merc lancers does not exist, it should have been just one merc.

    I also had 2 KTM's in EDB, trade_base_bonus should have been trade_base_income_bonus, and one faction misspelling gaul should have been gauls. That came from using gaul as the region name and mixing them up.
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  6. #6
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : A modder's guide to CTDs

    1 - CTD during AI turn :
    a - A new named character is generated and given a not valid name.

    2 - CTD when scrolling over a region on the campaign map :
    a - Not enough province/settlements on a too large map (fix : add provinces on the map) - This CTD doesn't happen anymore with BI I think
    b - Error with the rebel faction/settlement owner and or creator (when you scroll over a given settlement)

    3 - CTD when the campaign is loaded :
    a - A character (spy, diplomat and general included) has a not valid name in descr_strat (not sure about this one, it might CTD while generating the .rwm)
    b - See 2-a- The game is loaded but the screen is centered onto a buggy region.

  7. #7
    J-23 Member Hans Kloss's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    double post
    Last edited by Hans Kloss; 12-30-2005 at 23:15.

  8. #8
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Some hidden resources can course CTDs when you scroll over the region - noticeably the britain hidden resource which, as far as I can tell, should be removed from the game unless you wish to use the RB emergence.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."

  9. #9
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Updated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dol Guldur
    - faction/culture applied to inappropriate building tree or level (only Carthaginian has thus far been identified as causing this)
    Can you explain this in more depth? I am afraid I don't understand.
    Cogita tute


  10. #10
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Add the Carthaginian culture to either of the top two levels of health buildings and you will see what I mean - it will kick you back to the menu; it is strange because if the game does not expect it there it usually - with other cultures at least - provides the default description and card.

    EDIT: This KTM has been resolved and should be emended above to indicate the solution: the Carthaginian culture needs a fallback folder for those buildings/levels not catered for in its original folder settings in the descr_ui_buildings.txt file. For more on this see: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=58677 - and a big thanks to Nikolai.
    Last edited by Dol Guldur; 01-03-2006 at 22:08.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."

  11. #11

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Very useful, this one!

    CTD during splash screen:
    - Missing entry in export_buildings.txt

  12. #12

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Ok, what about a CTD when exiting a particular faction's campaign? When the loading bar is moving about halfway through and you are heading back to the main menu? But it's not doing it on other factions' campaigns when you exit them?

  13. #13
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Hmm..never had that one Teleklos. But I'd be interested to know the answer.

    Here's another:

    In Campaign Mode CTDs:

    Clicking on a settlement where a building has been prebuilt in descr_strat.txt but which has no upgrade stated from the building before it in EDB.
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  14. #14

    Exclamation Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    A few more:

    * descr_strat (DS) & descr_regions (DR)

    Specifically Eastern culture (Parthia, Pontus & Armenia). For the default culture tag (DCT), you can use any Eastern faction. However, after attempting to use Pontus as the faction creator (FC) for a new settlement in DS, whilst loading up a new campaign map.rmw, the game didn't like this and gave a hard CTD.

    Workaround: substituted Parthia as the faction creator, and things worked perfectly.

    Also, if adding a rebel army to occupy a newly created rebel settlement, I think you can get away with the sub faction being any of the Eastern factions. I left Pontus in (was going to change it to Parthia, forgot ), but surprisingly the game did not give a hard CTD whilst creating the campaign map. Made the sub faction Parthia anyways just to be sure.

    I find it strange that the Eastern culture has this problem, whereas other cultures (EG Greek) can use a combination of FCs, such as macedon, greek_cities etc.

    * descr_regions (DR) & rebel_faction_descr (RFD)

    Attempted to use alternate rebel factions from RFD, but the game will once again give a hard CTD. The campaign map is generated fine, and the progress bar will appear (even reach the end), but before you see the campaign map it will CTD. Managed to work out that the game does not like selected rebel factions from RFD. Ones from memory that have caused problems (although there are probably many more in there) include Celtici, Phrygians.

    Workaround: simply use the rebel factions that the default vanilla settlements use. Search for a nearby settlement / region in DR, and copy & paste the rebel faction into your new region to fix this CTD issue.

    [EDIT:] * Character / Settlement Placement on the campaign map.

    Usually -show_err will give you the appropriate coordinates as to a bad tile placement. From memory, its OK to place characters / agents on most terrain types (EG standard forests, hills etc), obviously apart from inaccessible tiles (mountains, fords, rivers). Watch out though, some campaign map tiles are misleading. EG, tried to reposition Cyrene onto the northern coastal tiles in Cyrenaica, but the game stated that this tile was inaccessible. Whether or not this was influenced by the sea cliffs I'm unsure.

    Additionally, when the game auto-generates family members (in the case of SPQR around Rome), it will spawn them successfully onto fords, not the river itself - pretty smart stuff Usually the 2 family members will be created 1 tile North and one tile North East of Rome. I've repositioned Rome so that it has the river immediately on its right tiles. As a result, the family members were spawned on the tiles that were not occupied by other family members, agents or invalid terrain.

    You can get away with positioning a settlement on hills. If you zoom into the settlement (from the settlement info scroll), you will see that the settlement perimeter is laid out flat, and then outside this area the natural features will be present (EG woodland, rolling hills, coastline etc). I was originally concerned about this until it was tested out (multiple settlements for several factions).
    Last edited by Seasoned Alcoholic; 02-08-2006 at 02:01.


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  15. #15
    CeltiberoRamiroI Member Monkwarrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    A few more:

    * descr_strat (DS) & descr_regions (DR)

    Specifically Eastern culture (Parthia, Pontus & Armenia). For the default culture tag (DCT), you can use any Eastern faction. However, after attempting to use Pontus as the faction creator (FC) for a new settlement in DS, whilst loading up a new campaign map.rmw, the game didn't like this and gave a hard CTD.
    Not for me. I have several settlements with faction_creator pontus without any problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    * descr_regions (DR) & rebel_faction_descr (RFD)

    Attempted to use alternate rebel factions from RFD, but the game will once again give a hard CTD. The campaign map is generated fine, and the progress bar will appear (even reach the end), but before you see the campaign map it will CTD. Managed to work out that the game does not like selected rebel factions from RFD. Ones from memory that have caused problems (although there are probably many more in there) include Celtici, Phrygians.

    Workaround: simply use the rebel factions that the default vanilla settlements use. Search for a nearby settlement / region in DR, and copy & paste the rebel faction into your new region to fix this CTD issue.
    What does "alternate rebel factions" means?
    I have lots of new rebel factions and no one causes problems.
    In the original vanilla game there are several rebels in descr_rebel_factions that are not "translated" in rebel_faction_descr (I say this from my memory, perhaps it is the other way round) and they cause CTD. I think I said something about that in the short tutorial for new rebels.

  16. #16

    Post Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkwarrior
    Not for me. I have several settlements with faction_creator pontus without any problems.
    That's strange, after receiving the hard CTD, all I did to solve the problem was change Pontus to Parthia in about 3 places in DS. Didn't edit anything else, and the campaign map was generated fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkwarrior
    What does "alternate rebel factions" means?
    I have lots of new rebel factions and no one causes problems.
    In the original vanilla game there are several rebels in descr_rebel_factions that are not "translated" in rebel_faction_descr (I say this from my memory, perhaps it is the other way round) and they cause CTD. I think I said something about that in the short tutorial for new rebels.
    By that I mean the other rebel factions available in that list, IE the ones not used in a vanilla version. I'd spotted some settlements that were using incorrect rebel factions (and tried to allocate alternate ones to new settlements), so after changing some, I kept getting CTD. Changed the rebel factions in DR back to what they were, and things worked fine.

    Whenever I'm modding now, I'm half-expecting to receive a hard CTD through what's been edited. So I ususally edit one or two things at-a-time, test to see if the changes work, then (if the test was successful) completely back up all the files that have been modified. I do this as an ongoing process because of the sheer volume of CTDs I've received through modding. The hard CTDs are the worst because you have to use trial and error & problem-solving to work out what the game doesn't like (or retrace your steps )


    Currently developing Rome: Total Gameplay (RTG), an unofficial mod for vanilla Rome: Total War v1.5

    Features: improved battles, new units to recruit, more buildings to construct, a modified campaign map, and much more!
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  17. #17
    CeltiberoRamiroI Member Monkwarrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    That's strange, after receiving the hard CTD, all I did to solve the problem was change Pontus to Parthia in about 3 places in DS. Didn't edit anything else, and the campaign map was generated fine.
    In my opinion the problem comes from some kind of incompatibility of faction_creator and culture tag of that regions, or from the presence of some building not assigned to pontus (if any). The sole presence of pontus in faction_creator is not the reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    By that I mean the other rebel factions available in that list, IE the ones not used in a vanilla version. I'd spotted some settlements that were using incorrect rebel factions (and tried to allocate alternate ones to new settlements), so after changing some, I kept getting CTD. Changed the rebel factions in DR back to what they were, and things worked fine.
    Check if those alternate rebels are present in both descr_rebel_factions (Data folder) and rebel_faction_descr (Data\text folder).
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    Whenever I'm modding now, I'm half-expecting to receive a hard CTD through what's been edited. So I ususally edit one or two things at-a-time, test to see if the changes work, then (if the test was successful) completely back up all the files that have been modified. I do this as an ongoing process because of the sheer volume of CTDs I've received through modding. The hard CTDs are the worst because you have to use trial and error & problem-solving to work out what the game doesn't like (or retrace your steps )
    Yes, I also expect the hard CTD (I'm now immerse in such type of problem).
    But sometimes one change in one file MUST be linked to changes in other files, so the hard CTD doesn't mean (at least not always) that the change is forbidden, but that other changes are needed (sometimes without error message).
    It is difficult for me to explain it without an illustrative example (sorry).

  18. #18

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    EB is having some CTD's after exiting a campaign - while the load bar is moving and you are heading back to the main menu. If any other mod or modder has had this problem (so far it seems unique ), please let us know. Maybe we can figure out what type of thing causes this sort of CTD.

  19. #19
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Any clues from the dump file?
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  20. #20
    J-23 Member Hans Kloss's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    I have got interesting one and maybe you guys could help: black screen CTD when trying to save campaign.This is with Atilla Reloaded's version 4.1 installed with unmodded BI.When pressing save button RTW CTD's to windows but strangly enough saves are made although any attempts to load upon restarting RTW ends in PC freezing up completely.I have look at dump files but there is nothing there to indicate what the problem could be

    Edit: This is a text from dmp which might be relevent :

    @AFLOATING POINT EXCEPTION. [%s] (Address 0x%p)
    Retry and set error_on_fp_exception to false to disable FP errors.
    For context of error, hit retry and in disassembly window use Edit->Go To with Address mode to go to the supplied address.Set a break point at the next line, and hit F5 to continue
    Last edited by Hans Kloss; 02-16-2006 at 23:40.

  21. #21

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    If you use the my_mod system you must have the export_VnVs file in the text folder of your my_mod folder. Not doing so results in a CTD on invoking the generals scroll. I've only tested this in B.I 1.6. It seems we can't redirect the exe to the vanilla...

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  22. #22
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    I would ask for a volunteer to update this. I am no longer able to, I can barely keep up with other things, much less remember this, and I think it is important enough to have someone keep it up to date.
    Cogita tute


  23. #23
    Bug Hunter Senior Member player1's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Quote Originally Posted by khelvan
    Faction selection screen:
    - Lack of campaign descriptions.
    Not in 1.5/1.6
    Only problem with 1.3 or 1.4
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  24. #24
    Marcus Arbaces Alexandros Member Arbaces's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Something new for your guide...

    Campaign Map Loading CTDs:
    - Problem with map_features.tga which may block access to certain areas of the map and cause a pathfinding problem. Also adding 4 river pixels in a 2*2 area might affect the river's geometry and also causes CTD. So.. take care with rivers.

    Thanks to Muizer for this valuable hint for this CTD.
    Last edited by Arbaces; 04-04-2006 at 21:27.

  25. #25

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    If for some reason you remove a faction completely from descr_strat but forget to remove them as faction creator of a region in descr_regions then the game crashs when you scroll over that region on the campaign map.
    It's not a map.

  26. #26
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbaces
    Something new for your guide...

    Campaign Map Loading CTDs:
    - Problem with map_features.tga which may block access to certain areas of the map and cause a pathfinding problem. Also adding 4 river pixels in a 2*2 area might affect the river's geometry and also causes CTD. So.. take care with rivers.

    Thanks to Muizer for this valuable hint for this CTD.
    Thanks for this. I have some problems with my modded campaign map. I hope this is the problem for the CTD.

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  27. #27

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Here's a neat new one:

    CTD when one faction seems to be attacking another faction only. The CTD occurs at the moment where the intermediate battle initiation screen should pop up. For example, you click an enemy faction settlement to attack, and you might get the "Attack Neutral Faction?" pop up, but then as it should next load the screen that judges both armies, and lets you choose whether or not to fight the battle yourself or auto resolve it, at that precise moment there is a CTD. This does not seem to occur when fighting against rebels of any sort.

    I'll try to update this as progress is made.

  28. #28
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    So you are saying this does not occur when the factions involved are at war as there would be no pop-up attack-confirmation box? So the error is attached to diplomacy or to the generationof the "at war/broken alliance" event? Events would be my first port of call I think.
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  29. #29
    Member Member Dromikaites's Avatar
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    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Campaign Map Loading Kick to Main Menu: when two characters (generals, captains, spies, etc) are placed on the same tile in the descr_strat.txt.

    If we exit the game after the Kick to Main Menu there is no error message. This makes the error sometimes hard to discover.

  30. #30

    Default Re: A modder's guide to CTDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dol Guldur
    So you are saying this does not occur when the factions involved are at war as there would be no pop-up attack-confirmation box? So the error is attached to diplomacy or to the generationof the "at war/broken alliance" event? Events would be my first port of call I think.
    It now seems to occur sometimes even when factions are already at war. No characters involved at all either - outside of a city in the open field.

    Happening right at the moment the window should open for withdraw/autoresolve/fight options are available. Will keep looking.

    And now it is happening when some other factions attack my city, if they were not at war previously - or if they are sieging me too even at war.

    And now ships attacking neutral factions cause the CTD too.
    Last edited by Teleklos Archelaou; 05-22-2006 at 18:45.

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