Ashigaru Yari = WEAK

[Lanemerkel1]

My Ashigaru Yari just broke and a ran before they even touched the enemy line! sending all the enemy strenght on......my archers

[matteus the inbred]

This is a common habit of Yari Ashigaru, although i have to admit mine generally managed to make contact before letting me down!
Believe it or not, i used to get cross when they ran away from Warrior Monks in a similar fashion...now that's wishful thinking! The honour bonus from Owari does not apparently make them invincible...

[Catiline]

They're got two uses. Soaking up enemy missle fire, and flanking. IIRC they're relatively nippy so if you keep them out of trouble they can cause some issues round the sides. Obsolete for that once you have no dachi or uber monks of course.

[matteus the inbred]

agreed. early on you can use them for cheap pursuit troops as well, as they're quicker than samurai infantry...the name ashigaru means something like 'light feet'

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Still, you're doing something wrong if they are running before reaching the enemy line.

[Lanemerkel1]

Still, you're doing something wrong if they are running before reaching the enemy line.

maybe it's because 1 unit of them and 1 unit of Samurai archers were charging head first into 3 units of rebel samurai warriors (which my intel pointed to as weak units)

[Just A Girl]

yari ashigarus are prety weak in sp. IIRC.
Also there Low morrale to begin with, I always tended to use yari sams,
And I wouldnt Ever imagine that id charge warrior monks with them.
I always used to stick my ashigarus on hold position and hold formation And put my sam archers behind them,
then maby try and entice the AI to come attack me 1 unit at a time...

Ashi's however when In mp'custom battles Are absolutley lethal.
You can supe em up.
turn em in to super ashi's With High honour, High wepon bonus, and High armour bonus. for next to nothing.

Then if you spend the same amount on a warrior monk for the AI.
The super ashis usualy win the fight.

Keep an eye on there Morrale and there Fatigue...

"fatigue Looks like 3 or 4 lil ying yang symbols There on each individual unit card Top left corner just under the unit's standard"

Also bear in mind the proximaty morrale drop variables.
When your unit comes In to contact or close proximaty of an enemy unit it suffers a morrale drop,
2 enemy units = a biger morrale drop.
3 enemy units = Largest proximaty morrale drop.

Then if you add on The morrale drop of being Tired. Ashigaru "pesants" Will tend to run away,

Head on attacks allways Look like a bad idea To your units,
Up hill head on attacks Looke Like A REALLY bad idea to your units,.
UP hill head on attack in the rain in to a wall of spikes. Looks like Suicide, to your men So they probably will rout.

Lack of suporting units. Would also make them more likley to run.
And if your general dies in battle You mite as well say Bye to them,

Ashis have there uses.
And in my oppinion,
The greatest of these is, to stand in the front line on hold position to stop cav killing Your ranged units.
IMHO there better defenders than they are attackers.
And realy they aint that good at defending either :)

[Papewaio]

Ashigaru Yari are good value per koku not per man.

They are good to bulk out an army to prevent flanks. I have played campaigns in the distant past where I would only develop and use one unit type. Ashigaru Yari campaigns did better then Samurai Archer campaigns... as at least the Yari were cheap and could koku per unit beat up cavalry. Also by playing mono-unit campaigns you get to see the strengths and weaknesses of various units and understanding what you would like to have in the armies to shore up the weak points.

AY are good against Cav... but try and match koku value.
They are good against Samurai Yari if they outnumber them 3 to 1 or if you use Nag's to frontal assault the Samurai and then flank with the Yaris.

Otherwise Yaris make good speed bumps... and not even that against monks.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hello, This thread has some screenshots of battles in which Yari Ashigaru were used to good effect.

They are only good in the first few years, but the game is usually won by then anyway.

[Drisos]

lol sasaki... I still don't manage to win a campaign before 20 years or so... and with 20 years I'm being fast

[Wilbo]

Sasaki - Out of interest, roughly how long does a game take you to become Shogun, in real-time?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki - Out of interest, roughly how long does a game take you to become Shogun, in real-time?

The first year takes a couple hours...probably speeds up after the initial flurry especially with the higher tech units you can get...it's been a while since I played past that point...can't really say. I fight all of my battles personally.

[Cowhead418]

They may be weak but they definately have their uses. With some honour they can be reliable light infantry, unlike the utterly useless peasants in MTW and STW, which serve almost no purpose except to be killed.

[Wilbo]

Absolutely, they're great for bulking up an army if you don't have much Koku and can also be used to cheaply guard / keep up the loyalty in a province.

I also sometimes use the Ashi as a shield wall for my Samurai, protecting them from the enemy archers.

[Just A Girl]

and can also be used to cheaply guard / keep up the loyalty in a province.

That sounds like There best use.

[Maeda Toshiie]

I would rather use shinobis. Zero upkeep cost.

[Just A Girl]

Are some of you guys talking about a Mod for a nother game?

This is the STW forum...

[Shadow]

I once fought head on with an unit of Samurai Yari (0 honour) against an unit of Ashigaru Yari (1 honour) and i get my ass kicked badly and that change my option on those Ashigaru and did try to use them but found that they are not really reliable and tend to broke after the first contact with the enemy


On my other campigan fought a battle with mori, with me using mostly warrior monks with 0 or 1 honour against their Ashigaru with 5 to 6 honour and my warrior monks routed

[Just A Girl]

I once fought head on with an unit of Samurai Yari (0 honour) against an unit of Ashigaru Yari (1 honour) and i get my ass kicked badly and that change my option on those Ashigaru and did try to use them but found that they are not really reliable and tend to broke after the first contact with the enemy


On my other campigan fought a battle with mori, with me using mostly warrior monks with 0 or 1 honour against their Ashigaru with 5 to 6 honour and my warrior monks routed

Its a similar problem in MP. but more so.
Ashigarus are so cheap and useless you can upgrade them to h9 w3 a3 For near enough nothing.
For the same price you a Warrior monk you would buy Is Plae in comparison,
So in MP games Ashis are banned.
Although in the SP game,
they would be dificult to keep alive whilst they gained honour,
and to armour and arm them So they can beat any 1 of the same price.

At high honour the ashigarus are ass kicking monsters.
but as they are initialy so weak and prone to rout's They wont often get to high honour levels in a sp game.
But in MP games where you just add on the honour, They are so deadly that they are banned,

[Maeda Toshiie]

Are some of you guys talking about a Mod for a nother game?

This is the STW forum...

I am talking about STW.

[Just A Girl]

I have never seen a unit named "shinobi" in the game,

yari ashis, yari sams, Warrior monks, No daichi. naginata, kenzai, battle feild ninjas, arbs, Muskets, Sam archers. nag cav, heavy cav, yari cav, cav archers.

Which one is the shinobi?
kenzai, Bfn?

[Shadow]

Which one is the shinobi?

I think he mean the spy unit

[Wilbo]

Shinobi are built using the Tea House.

[Just A Girl]

Oh,
One of those assasin type guys?
never used assasins or geisha in SP.
thing is easy enough Just fighting battles.
i like to kill every 1's heirs and then the main man with absolutley no dificulty.

[paradoxbox]

yari ashigaru are good for when you have a strong general available. They don't run as easily. Try to keep them to the sides, bracket an enemy unit with them then clamp down on one side with your ashigaru. That usually causes the enemy unit to either lose badly or rout them. They're great for keeping enemy power units busy while you flank with more powerful units like nodachi. But you have to be fast as they'll run away quickly.

Best bet for using ashigaru is to have a very famous general leading them. If your general is low ranked your ashigaru will usually run away without doing anything important.

[Yesugey]

Ashigaru runs from battlefield is not a problem.

Samurai which sees this and starts wavering is.

[Ludens]

Samurai aren't that worried by routing ashigaru, though. IIRC the morale penalty for nearby routing units is -6, unless the routers are ashigaru and the non-routing unit is not. In that case, the penalty is -2.

If a samurai unit starts wavering because of fleeing ashigaru, its morale must have been pretty depressed already.

[Yesugey]

Samurai aren't that worried by routing ashigaru, though. IIRC the morale penalty for nearby routing units is -6, unless the routers are ashigaru and the non-routing unit is not. In that case, the penalty is -2.

If a samurai unit starts wavering because of fleeing ashigaru, its morale must have been pretty depressed already.

Hmm, I think it happens when they charge against musketeers.

I am a musketeer fan, and normally, Yari Samurai get hit by the first volley and then contact and kill the musketeers.
But thanks to AI, it charges its Ashigaru first, and because of they flee, Yari Samurai follows them.

[Maeda Toshiie]

My bridge defense armies consists of pure Ashigaru units. YA + Muskets == lots of dead enemies. Sometimes, I even use specialized YA armies to assault bridge provinces, but requires bad weather and an enemy force that does not contain WMs and NDs. It is a little bit of an exploit, since the defending AI does cross the bridge to attack my YAs. Therefore, I'd form a U shape at the mouth of the bridge and attack when part of the enemy has crossed. Obviously this requires YAs with lots of weapon, armour, and honour upgrades, and they must be in hold formation most of the time.