Best Shimazu Strategies? Tried the Board Game?

[RemusAvenged]

Anyone have any luck with these guys consistently? Is there a way to avoid being crushed in the end by the Hojo/Uesegi horde?

I use the port cheat by sending an emisary to a northern port and then send an ermy or two behind enemy lines to slash/burn and run just to get enough cash and keep them off my front.


Oh yeah and has anyone played the board game?
Is it as good as Axis n Allies?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I didn't like the boardgame much *shrugs*


Best way to avoid the Hojo Horde is to get there fast. If you don't get there fast enough and don't feel like slugging it out you can always train a geisha.

[Wilbo]

What are the board game comments about...?

[matteus the inbred]

i think Sasaki Kojiro is referring to the fact that Shogun was originally a strategic boardgame loosely based on the novel by James Clavell...

with Shimazu (and i didn't play them much cos i found them too easy until you reached the 'Hojo Horde' point, then i found the attritional warfare boring) you should use a lot of shinobi (preferably from Tajima for the honour bonus) to destabilise and invade eastern Japan while your western armies are around the Yamashiro/Shikoku area. Start as soon as you can, concentrate on invading lightly defended provinces by sea and wiping out or appropriating heavily teched up Hojo (or former Hojo and now in the hands of other clans) provinces. This will remove the threat of meeting nastily teched up Hojo/Uesegi armies coming the other way, and will also remove the threat of a high honour Geisha turning up and wiping you out. Shimazu get lots of good heirs, but i hated having my best generals systematically hunted down.
It does lead to a war on two fronts, but your economy should be nicely built up by now, try fomenting rebellions and then bribing rebels. slash and burn to get the initial money, but then try to conquer and keep the pressure up on both fronts. good luck!

[Drisos]

Anyone have any luck with these guys consistently? Is there a way to avoid being crushed in the end by the Hojo/Uesegi horde?

I use the port cheat by sending an emisary to a northern port and then send an ermy or two behind enemy lines to slash/burn and run just to get enough cash and keep them off my front.

Well, I think there's four ways. One: Practice and practice and practice or be trained by someone, until you are able to defeat the huge uesugi/hojo armies that appear at the far stages of a shimazu campaign. Two: Do a very campaign. conquerat least one or two regions each turn. Then the uesugi/hojo don't have time to grow that strong. Three: Train Geisha. Rebels never become so good. Four: Get an emissary in one of their port regions, preferably one with big income. (echigo, dewa, mutsu, hitachi, musashi, satsuma) And place a 960-men defensive army over there. Preferably with lots of Ranged units(preferably musketeers, with if you don't have them archers) and some yari samurai or naginata and 1 or two units of cav. You should be able to keep that region and don't need to burn farms or mines. (I would burn the military buildings though.. if you need more men send them via the port.) Of course you could also do this with several regions.

board game?? sounds intresting..

[matteus the inbred]

the board game was ok...i guess. like any other small boy would, i took all the soldier gaming pieces out of the box (there were something like 500) and fought battles with them instead of playing the actual boardgame, but i remember having some good games using the proper rules!

the attrition solution is good if you can keep picking off heirs and daimyos in battle...eventually they'll run out and the clan will collapse. the Shimazu are good for this as they have lots of talented heirs.

if you're using the emissary/invasion route, try to bribe the army in one of the river provinces(can't remember which those are, Drisos looks like a man who knows!), then send in defensive reinforcements instead of invading the province and having to fight an attacking river battle...the AI will never be able to take it back off you if you stick naginata, archers and gunners behind a river and put a very good general in command.

geishas...i always regarded spamming them as cheesy, but use 'em anyway! they can still be stopped by high valour ninja...build these in Iga for the valour bonus.

[Drisos]

the attrition solution is good if you can keep picking off heirs and daimyos in battle...eventually they'll run out and the clan will collapse. the Shimazu are good for this as they have lots of talented heirs.

are you sure? I don't remember that good but what I do remember that the heirs weren't really good.. at least I thought. (all rank 5 and 6 heirs are with oda, imagawa, takeda, mori, hojo and uesugi, I thought.)

geishas...i always regarded spamming them as cheesy, but use 'em anyway! they can still be stopped by high valour ninja...build these in Iga for the valour bonus.

Or Yamashiro. With Shimazu you'll probably reach that first..

[Maeda Toshiie]

1. I don't like to use the Geisha. Feels cheaty.

2. I don't like to use the port raid "function". Feels cheaty (also).

3. A less cheesy way is to use guns. Still considered to be cheesy by some though.

Shimazu economics, WE/MI version:
Build ports, in every province. Not only are they good at moving troops, they provide quite a bit of income (200 per turn per province). Even if you do not use guns, accept trade and build portugese trading posts (200 per turn per province). Next is to get churches out and a cathedral. The tithes add to your income.

There are only 3 provinces on Kyushu worth building farmland improvements (and they are in Imagawa hands initially).

Troops:
Smash the Imagawa as quickly as possible before turning onto the Mori. Ignore Shikoku first. Appropriate the iron sands provinces of the Mori and train troops from there.

[Ordani]

Once you consolidate Kyuushuu there really isn't too much to the game. Push up through Iyo/Tosa to Kawachi, then go after whichever of Oda or Mori you aren't allied with. The key to beating Hojo or Uesugi holding key mountain provinces like Omi or Shinano and using those as fulcrums to push their forces back. It will be bloody, but as long as you're fighting in their breadbasket the outcome is almost inevitable.

For example, a large army in Shinano pins troops in something like 5 northern provinces that can not be used to defend the eastern river lowlands. Taking it should be a priority.

If you're having trouble with the Hojo Hordes, try suckering the AI into bloody river battles to thin out his numbers by leaving small garrisons of naginata and lots of archers. You might lose the province, but that's fine if he's taking 3-4x losses to make it happen.

I believe my best Hojo defanging happened in Musashi (playing as Takeda) wherein I managed to kill on the order of five thousand troops, Lord Hojo and two heirs over the autumn and winter campaigns. I lost most of my own army to do it, but the Hojo fell and I cleaned up the rest of the clans within the next 10 years.


As for the boardgame, if it's the same thing as Samuari Swords with a different name, it's quite good and I had a lot of fun with it in college before some jerk ninja'd my box.

[matteus the inbred]

are you sure? I don't remember that good but what I do remember that the heirs weren't really good.. at least I thought. (all rank 5 and 6 heirs are with oda, imagawa, takeda, mori, hojo and uesugi, I thought.)
Or Yamashiro. With Shimazu you'll probably reach that first..

you're right, they don't get super-talented 6 star Kenshin type heirs, but they get a regular supply (about half a dozen) of 3-4 star heirs...it's hard to kill the clan off by wiping out heirs. some of the other clans get few and far between and can't really afford to lose many.

true, i forgot the bonus in Yamashiro.

oh yeah...
you leave my ashigaru alone! <throws something pointy at Drisos>

[Drisos]

Shimazu economics, WE/MI version:
Build ports, in every province. Not only are they good at moving troops, they provide quite a bit of income (200 per turn per province). Even if you do not use guns, accept trade and build portugese trading posts (200 per turn per province). Next is to get churches out and a cathedral. The tithes add to your income.

There are only 3 provinces on Kyushu worth building farmland improvements (and they are in Imagawa hands initially).

Troops:
Smash the Imagawa as quickly as possible before turning onto the Mori. Ignore Shikoku first. Appropriate the iron sands provinces of the Mori and train troops from there.

I would say, conquer the Imagawa lands, create improved farmlands in Hizen. Conquer Shikoku, build mine in Iyo and improved farmlands in Sanuki. And I would then go for the Mori conquering. (I used nagato as 2nd hq.. train naginata and heavy cav out there - not naginata's anymore since I patched to 1.02 though..) but that's just me.

And one thing about Cathedrals: you can only build one, normally. Gather a lot of cash and a few citadels, and start a few cathedrals the same turn. Doing this you will be able to create two or even more cathedrals, which will deliver some nice koku

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And one thing about Cathedrals: you can only build one, normally. Gather a lot of cash and a few citadels, and start a few cathedrals the same turn. Doing this you will be able to create two or even more cathedrals, which will deliver some nice koku

I remember doing that and only getting the koku from one cathedral?

[NodachiSam]

Hmm. How much does a Cathedral getyou? I've never really bothered because of province loyalty and me having a tempered fondess for buddhism and shintoism.

[Drisos]

I remember doing that and only getting the koku from one cathedral?

hmmm. I could be mistaking of course, but I really thought I have more money doing this... Well I don't have time to check now.. Anyone busy with a christian campaign?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm. How much does a Cathedral getyou? I've never really bothered because of province loyalty and me having a tempered fondess for buddhism and shintoism.

200 koku per church.

[NodachiSam]

Wow, that could add up. I guess I'll have to give it a try.

[Drisos]

Be shure to have some shinobi and low taxes

I was never really into using arq's. They have a lot of power, but I didn't manage to make them shoot more then 50% of the battles. They were even worse then archers in melee, and I didn't want to miss my Warrior Monks. So since my Shimazu campaign I never became christian anymore. I always welcome my ancestors the Dutch though

[Maeda Toshiie]

Port income: 200 koku
Trading post income: 200 koku
Church income (with cathedral): 200 koku

Thats 600 koku per province. Consider the meagre 100-200 koku farming income of Kyushu and Chugoku. When you go Christian, you certainly want muskets instead of arquebus. This plus the chuch income makes getting out the cathedral a top priority.

Guns can be very powerful, in fact too powerful in the expansion. The main key to using them is to 1) use them in numbers 2) use them in 3 ranks to have them volley fire. In fact, guns make river defense a cakewalk with plenty of dead enemies to decorate the bridge with.

[NodachiSam]

Be shure to have some shinobi and low taxes

I was never really into using arq's. They have a lot of power, but I didn't manage to make them shoot more then 50% of the battles. They were even worse then archers, and I didn't want to miss my Warrior Monks. So since my Shimazu campaign I never became christian anymore. I always welcome my ancestors the Dutch though

I do the same. The dutch and their muskets are always welcome.

[Drisos]

Port income: 200 koku
Trading post income: 200 koku
Church income (with cathedral): 200 koku

Especially at expert, it would take me years and years to get anywhere near having these three in all regions.

[Togakure]

200 koku per church.

200 koku per church--and including all the churches in Japan, not just the ones in your provinces. If several enemy clans go Christian in a campaign and start building churches, the economic incentive to build a cathedral increases significantly.

I am under the impression that once you build one cathedral, the option to build cathedrals no longer appears in your building options. Hence, only one is possible. It's been a while since I've played SP though, so I could be mistaken.

As far as musket productions goes, I prefer the Gun Factory option. It takes an investment and a province with Port and Armory to build, but I like the +1 Honor and +1 Armor that muskets get (these bonuses are particularly nice for muskets). And, if you're playing Oda, they get an extra +1 Honor as they are Ashigaru. I should clarify that the +1 Armor bonus comes from the required Armory, not the Gun Factory itself.

Muskets aren't really needed in SP though. If I have them in an army, it's usually just a couple of units, which I use to inflict morale penalties on key enemy units at key points in the battle, or to draw out the enemy from a staunch defensive position. When I use muskets against the AI as I do in MP, SP battles become too easy, and hence, boring. I'm also usually 80% finished with a campaign by the time muskets become available unless I'm diddling around on purpose to enjoy super units (which, granted, is fun to do sometimes).

[Ludens]

And, if you're playing Oda, they get an extra +1 Honor as they are Ashigaru.

Didn't the Oda get a discount (as opposed to a honour bonus) on ashigaru?

[Martok]

Didn't the Oda get a discount (as opposed to a honour bonus) on ashigaru?

That's kind of what I thought, too. I know the Oda have a province (forget the name) that gives a +1 honor bonus to all AY trained there, but I don't know if that bonus applies to muskets as well.

[Drisos]

Didn't the Oda get a discount (as opposed to a honour bonus) on ashigaru?

Yes, Oda has the 'less-cost-thing' for ashigaru. But I think Toga was talking about honour because the Oda usually own Owari - a known ashigaru+1 region. The Oda HQ is mostly in that region so if you train them there...

I am under the impression that once you build one cathedral, the option to build cathedrals no longer appears in your building options. Hence, only one is possible. It's been a while since I've played SP though, so I could be mistaken.

That's correct. But I thought of a little trick I used once: build two cathedrals the same turn. then they are still available on the list. In my Shimazu campaign I got two cathedrals doing this - but I don't remember if I also got twice the money...

[Quietus]

Anyone have any luck with these guys consistently? Is there a way to avoid being crushed in the end by the Hojo/Uesegi horde?

I use the port cheat by sending an emisary to a northern port and then send an ermy or two behind enemy lines to slash/burn and run just to get enough cash and keep them off my front.

The Shimazu is the easiest faction IMO.

The key here is to totally ignore the small island where the rebels reside. Just plug the province with one or so unit and the rebels won't invade at all.

Just kick out Imagawa, then beat Mori, Takeda and Oda as fast as you can. Also set your unit production lines up so that reinforcements are continuous.

[Drisos]

Intresting that you say that - I think many people find Shimazu one of the harder campaigns... You must be a good economic tactician. I always had too few koku with the shimazu and ended up against a Hojo horde in the center of Japan.

[Togakure]

That's kind of what I thought, too. I know the Oda have a province (forget the name) that gives a +1 honor bonus to all AY trained there, but I don't know if that bonus applies to muskets as well.

Oops my mistake. How embarrassing--I have indeed been away from my favorite game far too long. Thanks for clearing that up for the other readers, guys. The Oda get Ashi cheaper, not with higher honor. But: Owari, the Oda capitol, produces +1 Honor ashi, as does Tosa on Shikkoku. Neither of these can support a Gun Factory however, as they don't have iron sand deposits in them.

[Togakure]

I find the Shimazu a great clan to play if I want to play a combat-focused game--rapid expansion. I don't play them like I would play the Uesugi or the Hojo. Because of their location, if you attack fast, furious, and constantly, it's pretty easy to sweep across the board. I don't spend much on economic improvements, and only a bit on military improvements. I increase income by increasing territory, fast. I do build a lot of ports. This strategy also helps to get at the Uesugi and/or Hojo before they can achieve "horde" proportions. If I were to play a "how fast can I take over Japan" campaign, I'd probably try the Shimazu first, because they are geared for that kind of game (at least, they seem so to me).

The Shimazu's special unit (No Dachi), and the requirements to produce it, also encourage this approach.

[Quietus]

Intresting that you say that - I think many people find Shimazu one of the harder campaigns... You must be a good economic tactician. I always had too few koku with the shimazu and ended up against a Hojo horde in the center of Japan.

Dris, just some simple points:

1) Low casualty rate.
2) Continue attacking (so you can fund more troops).
3) Continue reinforcements (so you can continue attacking).
Note: 2 & 3 feed each other.

4) Upgrade the rich provinces first.

:)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Intresting that you say that - I think many people find Shimazu one of the harder campaigns... You must be a good economic tactician. I always had too few koku with the shimazu and ended up against a Hojo horde in the center of Japan.

It's all in the speed...

If you start off attacking fast you will be going against smaller armies since your opponents won't have had time to build them. This means you need smaller armies, and thus you spend less on upkeep. You will come across less castles, which will also help you on time.

If you try and focus on economics you will make the game much harder. A year spent "building your economy" will add many years to your campaign.