The Three Reichs

[Monarch]

Okay, mainly I my knowledge of history is limited to modern history. So as such the term the Third Reich often pops up, of course. However this begs an obvious question which for some reasons I've just never known, if Nazi Germany is the third reich, what are the 1st and 2nd?

My guesses where that the first was the Holy Roman Empire, and the second was the Kaisers Germany that ended when Germany lost WW1. Is that at all correct? That's just me guessing.

[TheSilverKnight]

You are correct in your assumptions that the HRE was the 1st reich, and Imperial Germany was the 2nd.

[Monarch]

Wow, i'm better at guessing than I thought. Thanks for that The Silver Knight.

[Adrian II]

The nazis also called their regime the Thousand-Year Empire ("Tausendjähriges Reich") in a shameless reference to God's thousand year kingdom on earth according to the Bible (Revelation 20 and elsewhere).

[Kralizec]

Actually, the 1000 year reference comes from the first Reich. The Holy "Roman" Empire lasted roughly 1000 years from the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 till it was disbanded by Franz II in 1806, and Hitler wanted to emulate this.

[Leonin Khan]

many people believe that they refer to the greek "empire" and roman empire,. it always takes me alot of time to convince them that thats wrong.

[Knight Templar]

Actually, the 1000 year reference comes from the first Reich. The Holy "Roman" Empire lasted roughly 1000 years from the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 till it was disbanded by Franz II in 1806, and Hitler wanted to emulate this.

IIRC, Holy Roman Empire was not founded by Charlemagne (he was emperor), but by Otto I in the year 962 when pope (John XII, IIRC) crowned him for Holy Roman emperor of German nation

[Adrian II]

Actually, the 1000 year reference comes from the first Reich. The Holy "Roman" Empire lasted roughly 1000 years from the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 till it was disbanded by Franz II in 1806, and Hitler wanted to emulate this.

Could be, but only if they antedated the First Reich. The Heiliges Römisches Reich Theutscher Nation originated in the East-Frankish Empire only with Otto I (Xth century) and it was first called Sacrum Romanum Imperium in 1254. I will see what I can find on the issue one of these days.

[Kralizec]

The term Holy Roman Empire was coined by Barbarossa, not by Otto.

Charlemagne was Frankish, and therefore a "german". The eastern succesor kingdom of his empire (initially called East Francia) indeed became the basis of the HRE, after conquering the middle kingdom wich contained the capitals of Charlemagne's empire, Aken and Rome.
It was my understanding that Hitler wanted to emulate the succes of the HRE, wich can trace itself back to Charlemagne's coronation in 800. Adrian's explanation sounds credible too.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hitler used both references.

Edit: Charlemagne was crowned as carolus augustus. Later on the term imperator et augustus would become the official title.

[Franconicus]

It was my understanding that Hitler wanted to emulate the succes of the HRE, wich can trace itself back to Charlemagne's coronation in 800. Adrian's explanation sounds credible too..

The Nazionalsozialismus was a very radical change in German history and the raise to power was a fundamental revolution. Hitler always tried to clowd this. He had to calm the conservatives, who rather had the Kaiser back than a Gefreiter from WW1. He had to give them continuity. That is also the reason why he curried favour with Hindenburg.

Edit: Charlemagne was crowned as carolus augustus. Later on the term imperator et augustus would become the official title.

The notion 'Kaiser' is derived from the title Caesar. Like Czar, too. So all souvereigns tried to build continuity even to Julius