Elephant mounted cannons

[ZombieFriedNuts]

I read it in PC gamer are they taking the mick or are they really going to mount cannons on elephants I admit it would be funny but after they get the first round off wont they have a loose elephant on their hands.
Personally I love the idea and would love to see what happened to the first person who tried it in real life, if someone was that stupid. O and didn’t cannons explode regularly back then elephant stew anyone.

[TosaInu]

Hello ZombieFriedNuts,

I recall reading something about certain units being able to move cannons, including elephants. That's something different from them being mounted.

I don't know about history here. I guess elephants could be mounted by the very heavy arquebusses, type of like those used on ramparts. I wonder what the grey giants would do when they get fired

P.S. wasn't PC gamer I read.

[PROMETHEUS]

I am happy to know that there will be elephants , means we can mod in them for Cartaginians ^^ ....

[Watchman]

I know they sometimes mounted ballistas on the backs of elephants in SE Asia. But any gunpowder weapon above small swivel-guns would probably be a bit too much, in terms of both weight and recoil, for both the animal and the howdah. Gotta be a pain and a half to train the big animals to get used to the noise, anyway.

[Zenicetus]

Arquebusses are not enough. I want Chinese rockets (JATO) strapped to the sides of my elephants, so they can fly over city walls.

Elephants can be trained to ignore loud noises in a circus, but this does sound a bit over the top. Even ignoring the noise, that's a lot of weight to put on one of these beasts, if you include the ammo. Reloading on a moving elephant would be fun too. Is there any historical basis for this idea?

[lars573]

CA aren't the people you should be asking that. You should ask big huge games. They put an elephant with a culverin on it's back in RON:Thrones and patriots.

[matteus the inbred]

i'd like sharks with frickin' laser beams strapped to their heads...come on people, throw me a bone here.

bit silly really. i presume this means a Moghul campaign or similar? Elephants were used to bring up siege guns during the Mahratta Wars, but that's well outside the medieval time period...

[Oaty]

well the training for the noise is quite simple. Warhorses were tied to a post at a shooting range until the animal accepted gunshots as a part of everyday life.

[mfberg]

I don't think anyone would think of putting a large cannon on the back of an elephant, however something the size of a one-pounder swivel gun or probably something smaller would have been feasible at the time. If you are talking about elephants pulling cannon then the elephants don't even need to be represented in the game, just the cannon.

Didn't one of the MTW mods have the camel mounted guns, or was that just handgunners on camels?

mfberg

[ZombieFriedNuts]

no they defiantly say mounted

[BelgradeWar]

Now that's silly...what is it with CA and half-fantasy units?

Putting cannons on elephants is just impossible. The first shot (providing that the animal could take the cannon, operator and a SINGLE shot) would be the last.

The only animal that could have cannon mounted on top of her is a whale. But I think CA would keep that for Moby Dick Invasion expansion pack.

[lancelot]

Didn't one of the MTW mods have the camel mounted guns, or was that just handgunners on camels?

mfberg

Actually, camel guns were going to be in the original version of MTW- the CA original. They went as far as writing the text for the parchment description (which is still in the MTW files along with many other unused stuff including many buildings (like a wood harvester type thing IIRC) )

So it wasnt a modder gone nuts, it was all a CA idea. If you have MTW you can look it up for yourself.

[Trithemius]

Actually, camel guns were going to be in the original version of MTW- the CA original. They went as far as writing the text for the parchment description (which is still in the MTW files along with many other unused stuff including many buildings (like a wood harvester type thing IIRC) )

So it wasnt a modder gone nuts, it was all a CA idea. If you have MTW you can look it up for yourself.

I believe (although my sources are from other wargamers, as I am not really an afficianado of the period) that the Moghul and the Maratha used camel-mounted guns (the zamburak). This occurred well out of what we would consider the medieval period though - probably from the mid 16th C. onwards.

The Moghuls also trained elephants to bear firearm-equipped marksmen; its amazing what animals will accept if you condition them well enough. >_>

[TosaInu]

no they defiantly say mounted

Operational or transport? It doesn't seem physically (!) impossible to use an elephant like a pack horse for small cannons/mortars (few hundred maybe 1,000+ lbs).

[Watchman]

Really small mounted cannon, really little more than muskets too large to be used with just hands, were AFAIK tried at several points of hitory. None, AFAIK, were worth the trouble or too effective. Taking a light field piece, reducing the weight of the frame to a minimum, and adding a larger team of horses were generally a way better method for creating genuinely mobile firepower that could keep up with cavalry.

I don't really know how much your average elephant can bear and what the requirements for frames would be, but I strongly suspect it is simply physically impossible to mount a cannon heavier than the really light close-support guns - type 2-pounder or something similarly puny - on a howdah without serious issues with weight and recoil. Mind you, especially if they're of the breech-loading variety and use something similar to grapeshot, those things aren't half bad antipersonnel weapons.

[HalfThere]

Before certain unimaginitive people go badmouthing elephant-cannons, they should consider the additional tactical possibilities they will add. I'm sure it'll be a fun niche unit.

[Ludens]

no they defiantly say mounted

I recall the preview as well (I think it said "cannons mounted on elephants"), but another article mentioned "cannons pulled by elephants", so I thinks it's just the reviewer at error here. Anybody remember the R:TW preview which said you would be able to fire burning pigs into enemy cities? IIRC it resulted in some hilarious dialogue in the Colloseum.

Ah, here it is: Just for Laughs - the "Time" Magazine "Review".

[Watchman]

Elephants aside, I just thought of something interesting CA probably isn't going to even try putting in - the Hussite war wagons. We'll call you back, little pachyderms.

Now those would be a whole different tactical nut to crack.

[buster123]

Just a bit of useless info on elephants & artillery.
In the 18th century the Moghul emperor Nizam ul Mulk lined up 225 elephants
in front of his artillery as a test,after one volley most of them ran for miles,
trampling 306 infantrymen in the panic !!!!

Moghul elephants are the earliest recorded using firearm crewmen and the
nellies were trained with the use of fireworks to accustom them to the noise,
the thought of MTW2 with bombard armed elephants makes me cringe !!

[Silver Rusher]

Elephants aside, I just thought of something interesting CA probably isn't going to even try putting in - the Hussite war wagons. We'll call you back, little pachyderms.

Now those would be a whole different tactical nut to crack.

I thought that CA already said they were going to have wagons...

[Trithemius]

I thought that CA already said they were going to have wagons...

That'd be totally neat!

[sprucemoose]

plain stupid!!!!

whatever next,maybe

knife throwing dwarfs

ill tempered tigers

they should stick to whats best and keep it along the lines of MTW,and as for the americas hmmmmpppphhhhh.

[PROMETHEUS]

Operational or transport? It doesn't seem physically (!) impossible to use an elephant like a pack horse for small cannons/mortars (few hundred maybe 1,000+ lbs).

Not so Impossible if the cannon is of small size , and if a Camel can do it why not an Elephant ?

[TosaInu]

Not so Impossible if the cannon is of small size , and if a Camel can do it why not an Elephant ?

#2

But if it's only to tranport, then it could even be larger.

[PROMETHEUS]

yes , infact on some battles like the one of Samugarh was one of the decisive battles for the succession to the mughal throne after Shah Jahan. Aurangzeb and Murad Baksh, sons of Shah Jahan, fought Dara Shikoh, the eldest son And the Dara Shikoh’s Army consisted of least one hundred thousand horses, more than twenty thousand infantry and eighty pieces of cannon. The light artillery consisted of camels with swivel guns on their backs.

[PROMETHEUS]

here could be a probable look of what could be probably an Elephant with swivel gun on it...



while this represents a bigger cannon as u say ....

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

How about a multi-staged weapon?

An elephant has a cannon on its back that shoots another elephant into the air. The second elephant, which is smaller, has a swivel-mounted cannon on it. Perfect for siege assualts; the second stage elephant is shot over the walls and then shoots the defenders off the walls from behind. Now that's Total War.

[ZombieFriedNuts]

I like the swivel guns on them, I thought they meant mounting big ba****d cannons on the back of the animal like the one at the bottom of PROMETHEUS post not the small ones.

[snevets]

This is a very funny thread... so long as we're on fantasy units why don't they just add water buffalo with crews of spearmen... that would be great.

[Trithemius]

they should stick to whats best and keep it along the lines of MTW,and as for the americas hmmmmpppphhhhh.

I have no idea why people are annoyed about the Americas. The exploitation of New World resources had a major impact on the politics, and thus the warfare, of Europe.

Admittedly, the current dates given for the span of MTW2 (1080-1530 as far as I know) might mean that the game ends too early for the profound effects of the New World to be felt, but given the "alternative history" aspect of the TW games I don't think its a bad thing to have the Americas involved in some way.

The only real problem would be people "beelining" to the New World, and there are pretty easy ways of dealing with that.