Magyar/khazar unit

[palissa]

Well, i found only one pic in the magyar topic of some time ago, and of course i already skinned it.





What you think, that i cant make a conic hat in 3dsmax? What i lack, is the graphic art, I draw like a children, and dont have fantasy at all :)

But well, i can copy everything i can see, so that is your magyar archer.

There is no way to feel a unit dirtier in so low poly count, just darker or brighter :)

Of course need critic and suggestion, on that archer.

Bye

[Rodion Romanovich]

Quite good!

The shape (model) of the unit is all right, looks very good as a matter of fact.

In reply to your question on color choices
- even the brightest clothes should be slightly darker than the clothes in your example above, I'm afraid
- for militia units, assume off-white, brown or grey clothing if nothing is said explicitly. Textile colors were expensive in these days so most people had naturally colored clothes, with color depending on what material they used. I'm guessing that magyars would use much leather because that would probably be the easiest thing to access where they lived.
- if it says leather armor, you can be sure the clothes can be leather colored
- if it says chainmail, you can use chainmail texture over the chest and so on
- for higher-quality units, it's difficult to say what they'd wear, so if perhaps wait with skinning them until we've found better pictures.

With dirt I didn't mean more polys, just add a few irregularities in the pattern of the clothes they wear. However for that to look good, the clothes must be quite dark, otherwise the stains and other dirt things will be too much visible. That's why mostly the militia units, which would have pretty dark brown-greyish clothes, should have dirt.

I think those things should be easy for you to fix. Just make it darker, then if you can, run some filter that adds dirt. I don't know much photoshop myself but I assume some "noise" or something could fix it. Or a brush set to very low alpha so you're drawing almost transparently on the basic, clean, clothes once you've made them. Good luck, I'm sure you can make very good skins if you just think of these things!

Edit: Some more color choice tips I've thought of:
- when choosing colors, look at the HSB color system, it's more intuitive than RGB, makes it easier to understand what colors you're changing to
- when choosing grey or black colors, always choose them to be a little stronger in either red, green or blue than in the other of red green and blue. For example use R=110, G=80, B=80 or R=80, G=110, B=110 rather than R=95, G=95, B=95, in order to make the colors look more "alive"
- seldom use any color where any of the components R, G or B is stronger than 150
- seldom use any color where the sum of the components R, G and B is stronger than 500

[palissa]

Mostly the brightness is due to the 3dsmax rps i use, that gie super light to check better details on picture.
Must try it on a rtw environment, but that involve change some code and text and i am too lazy to do it.

Leather dress are no problem, vanilla is full of leather dress to inspirate.
But you know, must make unit bit different because else seems all looking the same :)

Do more research and come out with some good pic, or drawing, so i can work on those.

I asked Forgus of EB that is hungarian if send me some if he find it.

Anyway bright colored units look funnier in game, than all those pelt dressed :)

Tomorrow will work on a leather dress with one of that pic of that hungarian site you sent me.

Bye

[Rodion Romanovich]

Mostly the brightness is due to the 3dsmax rps i use, that gie super light to check better details on picture.
Must try it on a rtw environment, but that involve change some code and text and i am too lazy to do it.

Leather dress are no problem, vanilla is full of leather dress to inspirate.
But you know, must make unit bit different because else seems all looking the same :)

Do more research and come out with some good pic, or drawing, so i can work on those.

I asked Forgus of EB that is hungarian if send me some if he find it.

Anyway bright colored units look funnier in game, than all those pelt dressed :)

Tomorrow will work on a leather dress with one of that pic of that hungarian site you sent me.

Bye

Ok, here we go:
http://ehumana.hu/arpad/pic/pictures/ny-05.jpg
This is the one you made, your version looks very good but is slightly too bright. This could be the kabarok. Without horse without much changing it could also be magyar foot archers.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/rauno.huikari...900luvulla.jpg
The one on the left would be any of the better horse archers (maybe early vitézek), the second from the left could be used for first making the heavy horse archer type Koplyások (but probably replace the chainmail with leather), and the one furthest to the right could be used for the Köplények unit.

This is how to use the pics: look at the pics for inspiration on clothes. Look in the army lists description of the unit to find out which weapons to give them. Because in a few cases the pics have different weapons than the unit made from them should have.

For units after Christian conversion, I'll need to find some more concept art. I only have good pics for some of them:
- Besenyok
- Late Vitézek
- Várjobbágyok
- Szekely - this should be possible to find a pic of
- German knights
- Varjág Testorök - use the third one from the right:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/rauno.huikari...900luvulla.jpg

[palissa]

Here come the first one darkened



And here come the other one i just did



(The first on the left on that pic)

I didnt put on horse, because am lazy :)

Tell me critic and suggestion and hint.

Hey, make magyar is way difficult than make norman. those just give a chain mail :)

Am joking...

Bye

[Rodion Romanovich]

Impressive! The first one looks awesome now!

The second one could do with some irregularities (folds and dirt) added to the clothes, but I know that's very difficult so if you don't know how to do it in a way that looks natural it's good enough as it is

[palissa]

Another archer, i found a pic on hungarian site.



And previous archer with fold and dirt and so on.



(I am believer of saturated colors :), but respect opinion of the mod developer :)

[Rodion Romanovich]

Very good , they're really starting to look good now!

I think the red unit could be kabarok, the orange unit could be early vitezek, and the red could be foot archers too. For the blue unit, could you please give me the link to that site so I can see which unit type it could be - I think kabarok and early vitezek is possible, but maybe also besenyok and late vitezek, but I'm not sure.

[palissa]

Here where i found it.
There is also a woman dress pic, if we need a woman :)

http://www.geocities.com/kaganate/mgyrclth.html

I wonder what do now, maybe i must do some chain mail one, or plated one (if exist plate at those times)

Tell me on which one must work.

Must work in an order, else will have just a collection of magyar archer and dont know names :)

Any of them must wield spear and shield? i can do some spearman, or sabre man, dunno.
Bye

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, maybe then you could do these next:
- Koplyások
- Köplények
See the description above (for concept art) and the descriptions in the Army Lists thread (for info on weapons and armo)

[palissa]

Here the spearman based again on that picture (3rd from left mixed some)



Critic welcome.

[Csatadi]

Palissa,
The pictures you sent are very little. Can you send bigger ones?
See the Magyar &Khazars thread for pictures. We put a lot to the list. (List the old threads to see it.)
Do not care with clothing so much they wore leather armour in battles.

[palissa]

Little picture? click on it, are 800x600, cant be so small :)
I will work on pair leather armor on next model.
I ended the pictures with colored model, need more, else will do some leather armor and fur skins.
Bye

[Csatadi]

Ok, I see. It seems yesterday the net was extremely slow. I never got the bigger pictures.
Again, see the Magyar &Khazars thread for pictures.
E.g. hair styles, hats, boots, bow holders, tarsolys ('belt' pouches), sabres, reflex bows.
In that old times fews had enough money to buy metal armour. These rich warriors never fougth on foot.
Good work!

[Ultras DVSC]

Nice pics, palissa comrade, keep it up! But I'm not sure whether these dreadful medieval warriors were also believer of saturated colors.. And imho they should be more fearless and horrendous. I mean e.g. the breath of their shoulders should be a bit wider, because they're too meager compare to their thick arms. Anyway they're very good indeed!

OFF

Csatádi néptárs, haladok a besenyős könyvben, nagyon fasza, köszi!

ON

[Csatadi]

Ultras DVSC,
Fearless and horrendous? Regarding the (Arabic) sources the magyars were good looking people. Like nowadays. Their arrows and the nomad battle style were dreadful. At least for the western Christians.
I cannot paint so I have no idea what are the saturated colors. I know they wore colorful clothes and leather armour in battle.

Quite a good source, isnt it? I can suggest you another one: A népek országútján I Szkíták, szakák, székelyek. Unusual and new theories, not true by all means but the demonstrations are convincing.
Délkeleti szomszédaink mindenesetre hajukat tépnék ha elolvasnák.

[Ultras DVSC]

They were undoubtedly good-looking, but it doesn't exclude the dreadful look, which was a main characteristic of them as well.
Anyway, my statements had reference to their shape, their face's quite fair.

Na, new Scythia-book? Thanks, I'm looking after it soon.
LOL, I know the reason of the untruths in it, this Bihari is a famous physicist..

[palissa]

Well, that are the shoulders of vanilla stuff. Can broad some, but msut keep under watch the animation how will results.
Anyway, csatadi i read all that topic, but i need more visual thing, need pictures or drawing, else i cant skin nothing.
So, make some drawing and post here, or gimme sites with pictures. mroe pictures, more skins :9
Bye

[edyzmedieval]

Palissa,

Your work is excellent. You continue to improve.
Can I have your MSN please? You can send it by PM.

Now, second. Please send me the skins(the work) by mail to me at edyzemail@yahoo.com .To me and to Legio. He will specify his address.

Thanks, and keep up the work.

[Csatadi]

Anyway, csatadi i read all that topic, but i need more visual thing, need pictures or drawing, else i cant skin nothing.
So, make some drawing and post here, or gimme sites with pictures. mroe pictures, more skins :9
Bye

The problem is the 98% of the drawings and paints illustrate 'peaceful' people.
I know only one book which contains war gear. I havent got this book and havent got such pictures in files. Even the popular history books simply dont write details about their armaments.
If you have some stuff about the Bulgars (Turks) or the Pechenegs you can use it. According to Constantine's Imperio the Magyars had almost the same weaponry like the these tribes.

[palissa]

Here a swordman on figurine sent in magyar forum.



Will make a chain mail one, always on those figurine, now.

For edzy. I sent you the rar with 5 models i did till now.

The textures are 512x512, can be reduced on 256x256 to keep way less space.
Bye

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks Palissa.

[palissa]

How many units need this magyar faction?

You must tell me what missing, and how msut resemble, else i continue make on pictures, and maybe you dont even need.

WIll do next the chainmail with that strange shield.

Have some sign to put on shield? some magyar stendard, or picture?

Bye

[edyzmedieval]

I don't think the Magyars in their pagan times really had something on their shields...Maybe banner bearers?

The Magyars need all of the units in the Army lists thread.

[palissa]

Ah, well, this has a shield with some picture on it.



Again done on the pic in the thread.
(Dont look so much magyar to me, but that was the pic, and this is the result)

Edzy, okay, but i lost myself there :)

Till now i did 3 archer, 1 spearman, 1 swordman, and now an axeman.

I dont know what to do now, and I also lack some more pictures!

So come on, take out from your cilinder hat some picture i can realize...

Bye

[Rodion Romanovich]

palissa, the entire list of units needed for the magyars is in this thread:
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62017

For convenience, I'm reposting it here (those that are in bold style are the ones you have completed so far):
MOGYERIEK
========
LEVEL1
M[81] Kabarok (very light horse archers, bow, fast, good stamina, removed by Christian conversion) COMPLETED!
M[82] Besenyok (very light horse archers, bow, fast, good stamina, Christian appearance, unlocked by Christian conversion) COMPLETED!
M[83] Magyar foot archers (light archers, limited melee ability) COMPLETED!

LEVEL2
[84] Early Vitézek (light horse archers, bow, greater range, sword backup, removed by Christian conversion) COMPLETED!
[85] Late Vitézek (see above, unlocked by Christian conversion, same as early vitézek but with more Christian appearance)
[86] Koplyások (medium cavalry archers, short bow, lance and small round shield, leather armor, removed by Christian conversion)
[87] Várjobbágyok (medium cavalry archers, short bow, lance and small round shield, leather armor, fairly good in melee, unlocked by Christian conversion)

LEVEL3
[88] Szekely (sword and bow, elite, small unit, ZOR: pannonian region)
[89] German knights (heavy cavalry of eastern frankish appearance and stats, unlocked by Christian conversion)

LEVEL4
[90] Köplények (heavy cavalry, chainmail, lance and sword, removed by Christian conversion)
[91] Varjág Testorök (heavy cavalry, lance, shield, short shafted axe, chainmail, unlocked by Christian conversion)

[palissa]

Ah, good, i see, now.

Mmm, well, is impossible make spear+bow+shield, i fear.

Can make bow +spear, but not sure.

Can make bow and sword, of course.

All the unit i did, can be mounted on horse also.

I will try to go in order, maybe :)

More christian appareance, that i wonder what meean...
Less mongols traits? or maybe more chainmail and dress less eastern?
Make me some example...

Ah, the axe one, if add the spear, as primary, and put axe as secondary, and mount on horse, can be the varjag testorok, the last one unit, maybe.
has chainmail, short axe and the shield.

Bye

[edyzmedieval]

Unlocked by Christian conversion means that they become more western looking.

Their pagan looking, mongol and nomad looks dissapear.

[Forgus]

Guys these units... well dunno the list is ok (more or less I made it once)
Please note that any metal armor (chain or scale) was only used in higher nobility so use it only on generals and on the Köplények (+german knights of course). Stick to leather. That picture is only romantic representation
Köplények and the Varjágok are basicly Varangians, vikings from Kiev or Novgorod. These should be elite. They should not wear Hungarian looking insignia.
Székelys are not elite, they are simple light skirmishers.
Very few foot soldiers please. Hungarian armies well into the 1200s comprised of almost entirely of Cavalry (heavy and light)

To be followed. Be warned

[Rodion Romanovich]

Guys these units... well dunno the list is ok (more or less I made it once)
Please note that any metal armor (chain or scale) was only used in higher nobility so use it only on generals and on the Köplények (+german knights of course). Stick to leather. That picture is only romantic representation

Ok

Köplények and the Varjágok are basicly Varangians, vikings from Kiev or Novgorod. These should be elite. They should not wear Hungarian looking insignia.

Ok

Székelys are not elite, they are simple light skirmishers.

Ok

[/QUOTE]Very few foot soldiers please. Hungarian armies well into the 1200s comprised of almost entirely of Cavalry (heavy and light)
[/QUOTE]

yes, we only have a foot archer unit, and nothing else on foot. All others are cavalry units