Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 207

Thread: Iran

  1. #91
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    9,809

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    Well, it's true that not counting India Iran is pretty much the exact one nation that can be considered democratic in the south-central part of Asia between Turkey and... wait, which is the first SE Asian democratic country counting from the west...?
    Your quip is outstripping your wit here -- your often viscious with your humor, but usually clear. Do you want us to name the Westernmost Asiatic Democracy? (Russia) The Westernmost Southeast Asiaitic Democracy exlcusive of India? (Thailand or Russia, again) Or perhaps you mean name any Democracy aside from Turkey or Iran in the Middle East? (Israel, btw, though I'm not sure you personally recognize their right to exist).
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  2. #92
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hunting the Snark, a long way from Tipperary...
    Posts
    5,602

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
    As to actually fighting America, the only real problem is getting there, which is a big problem.
    Hmm.

    You know the first rule of warfare: 'Never invade Russia in winter'?

    I think you just trumped it. How about:

    'Never invade an overwhelming nuclear superpower via the Atlantic/Pacific.'

    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  3. #93
    Member Member Haudegen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    365

    Default AW: Iran

    I donīt think that Iran deserves the label "democracy". In the elections there the mullahs decide who can be a candidate for parliament.

  4. #94
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The dark side
    Posts
    5,383

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by rotorgun
    What do you suggest would be a suitable way for such a solution to come about? I can't imagine that the Bush administration or the Isreali governmaent is going to send a diplomat to publicly bow down and perform proskenisis to the Iranians, saying "Please oh great one, live forever, do not attack us with a missle."
    Yes, the problem is the risk that the negotiations will start with a few minutes of humiliating comments from Iran until they would trust the negotiation. But a good president should be strong enough to be able to cope with being humiliated. Being humiliated for a few minutes is not a high price for avoiding what could possible spiral into an Armageddon like war within 5-10 years from that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by rotorgun
    I sincerely hope that you are right, but would you stake the security of your country on this assumption withuot some tangable action on the part of Iran?
    The security has already been staked for centuries, by allowing any nation that might become hostile in the future to exist. It's impossible to find a situation where security isn't risked in one way or another. Therefore it's necessary to make sure that the hostility decreases, alternatives are given, and so on. If the hostility gets great enough Iran might even manage to buy nukes from countries like Russia or Pakistan without having to own the facilities. They could have done that already if they wanted to. The fact that they haven't, shows that they are not yet hostile enough to want to use a nuke. Therefore no first strike is necessary. However, if Iran starts creating facilities for massproduction of nukes and have say 10 or more nukes on the way for completion, then there's reason for worries. But until then, it's so likely that they aren't that hostile yet that any further attacks because we don't trust them would only bring them closer to the point where they will consider using nukes.

    One possible solution that I have mentioned was to offer a cheaper energy supply solution than Iranian nuclear power plants. Together with such a treaty there could be a non-attack promise lasting for those 10 years, and in return for the promise Iran would promise not to build nuclear power plants or nuke creation facilities during these 10 years, and also allow inspections of suspicious sites during these 10 years. This solution would take into account the most probable desires Iran has behind it's nuclear power program, and the safety concerns USA has, but there might be more things the parts desire so those have to be agreed upon by communication and negotiation, from a president strong enough to be able to handle the humiliation and lack of trust problems that would exist at the beginning of such a discussion, and be able to overcome them. Ideally the communication could even be held in a text-based form by computers to avoid staring-games and herd mentality effects that would reinforce the existing lack of trust and instead allow for a more honest communication. Face to face communication has seldom worked well for discussing important political questions. There should also be enough time for both sides to formulate their answers, so a more forum-like than chat-like communication would be ideal for the discussions.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  5. #95
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Kona
    Posts
    2,473

    Default Re: Iran

    Right now as I see it and as stated by previous posts in this thread the only immediate solution is a total economic embargo involving US, EU, Russia, and China. Unfortunately most of the nations needed I doubt would be willing to do this. Iran has oil and needs to buy foriegn goods and if all it's oil markets and imports were forced to come from a single nation that nation would probably prefer temperary economic prosperity to a loss (think Prussia leaving Austrian Empire alone to Napoleon). It's only be a short term solution but for that nation but that's likely to be ignored.

    Russia is happy to play one against the other. Although it's still a power since the end of the Cold War it's been scrambling for it's lost prestige and I think Putin would be willing to leave the US and possibly the EU out alone against Iran to weaken their standing in the world and help Russia's ailing economy.

    China is in the same boat as Russia, it sees Iran as a potential to weaken "the West" economcially and diplomatically and the requirement for Chinese approval to any serious embargo on Iran might be what the Chinese are looking for to assert itself as a serious worldpower and not just a marketplace for Western goods.

    The EU unfortunately is too indecisive to do anything in the near future to Iran. The amount of time for desicions to be made along with the understandable distaste for war that Europe has gotten in recent years makes putting real pressure on Iran unlikely. I don't believe that the EU will take Iran seriously as the threat it is now until it HAS already gotten the nuclear power it's seeking and the capability to extend their missile range it's current range of the Balkans to Berlin, London, and Paris. By that time when the danger of war is too great I find it hard to imagine that any European nation will risk conflict with Iran. I also feel that the Iranians are well aware of that and know that time is on their side.

    The only nation right now with the might to project power and change in Iran in a military manner is the US. As said earlier war with Iran would have to be total war. The possible use of nuclear weapons is there but I imagine that would only occur if the Iranians already have nuclear weapons and only as a first stike weapon against those Iranian nuclear sites. The US ground forces are tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Central Command for coalition forces in the Middle East (Quatar) is within easy missile and strike fighter range. Although the Naval and Aero threat threat to the US and current Coalition forces would be shortlived (although very dangerous) and the cabalility of US Strategic forces to project themselves in Iran with extreme force even without nuclear weapons is all hindered by the presence of venerable troops in Iraq in Afghanistan. Despite the qualitative advantage the US has over Iran the numbers of conventional forces that the Iranians could send into Iraq and Afghanistan would be unstopable. The US Army and Marines simply aren't capable of fighting a large scale conventional war and policing Iraq at the same time. This present danger to the US is probably the key reason the current administration hasn't come to blows with Iran just yet.

    As Redleg said the US has too much on it's plate, right now the Iranians hold too many advantages if war between the US and Iran happened. They would probably add succesfully Iraq and possibly Afghanistan to their new Persian Empire and the problem is that they are well aware of this. The USAF can bomb all it wants but history has shown that short of nuclear weapons you can't bomb a country into submission. The EU is the only ally the US has that could supplement the troops the US doesn't have numerically and of sufficient quality to completely win a war with Iran. Sealanes and Airspace aren't enough. The EU needs to step up economic pressure and be absolutely willing to use force together with the US if nessasery otherwise it's diplomacy won't be taken seriously and we WILL have a nuclear Iran to deal with.

  6. #96
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,534

    Default Re: Iran

    If China wonīt help the UN with an Embargo, the UN could invade China, set up a puppet government and all will be fine.
    Sometimes the solution is so easy and obvious.

  7. #97
    Member Member Taffy_is_a_Taff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,378

    Default Re: Iran

    did you hear the news?
    The Iranian leadership are apparently saying that they are willing to start transfering nuclear technology to other countries.




  8. #98
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    If China wonīt help the UN with an Embargo, the UN could invade China, set up a puppet government and all will be fine.
    Sometimes the solution is so easy and obvious.
    Yes, but if things were this easy the UN might as well save itself the trouble and invade Iran and set up that puppet regime there...
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  9. #99
    Member Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Terra, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, somewhere in this universe.
    Posts
    2,746

    Default Re: Iran

    Nah, the UN wouldn't. The US, Japan and Australia wouldn't support it, seeing as China is a major trading partner with these three countries. Without the support of the 2 countries that dish out the most cash of the UN and give the UN most of its troops.. I don't think an attack could take place. Anyway, it's not that easy to go to war. Who'd voluntarily sign up against China? It would be close to certain death for the first troops there, that's for sure. Nobody wants a world war now, either.

  10. #100
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,534

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Yes, but if things were this easy the UN might as well save itself the trouble and invade Iran and set up that puppet regime there...
    No, that would mean a lot of losses in the war with Iran.

  11. #101
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    No, that would mean a lot of losses in the war with Iran.
    Uh, yes, I must admit there is a compelling logic to the statement that avoiding war with Iran would prevent a lot of losses in the war with Iran.

    But just why it for that reason somehow would be preferable to attack China is a bit beyond me. Maybe I missed the irony in your previous post.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  12. #102
    Member Member Lord Winter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,978

    Default Re: Iran

    The EU unfortunately is too indecisive to do anything in the near future to Iran. The amount of time for desicions to be made along with the understandable distaste for war that Europe has gotten in recent years makes putting real pressure on Iran unlikely. I don't believe that the EU will take Iran seriously as the threat it is now until it HAS already gotten the nuclear power it's seeking and the capability to extend their missile range it's current range of the Balkans to Berlin, London, and Paris. By that time when the danger of war is too great I find it hard to imagine that any European nation will risk conflict with Iran. I also feel that the Iranians are well aware of that and know that time is on their side.
    If the world truly wants to stop nuclear profilation they must do it now or else any country will think they can get away with it.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  13. #103
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,552

    Default Re: Iran

    Iran has pretty much already said as soon as they become nuclear capable, they are going to do whatever it takes to eliminate Israel. I would imagine this includes a nuclear first strike against Israel. They're also now saying they will freely distribute nuclear technology around the world.

    It's not a question of if, but when. But hey, maybe we need to have some more discussions and 'express our lack of willingness to accept all this' at the UN. It's surely worked wonders for us thus far.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  14. #104
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Running in circles in the white tower
    Posts
    6,603

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Iran has pretty much already said as soon as they become nuclear capable, they are going to do whatever it takes to eliminate Israel. I would imagine this includes a nuclear first strike against Israel. They're also now saying they will freely distribute nuclear technology around the world.
    Actually I am pretty sure that they didn't say it this way as it would mean that they admit to developing nuclear weapons which they clearly didn't (yet).

    The sabre rattling towards Israel is not a threat to nuke them as soon as possible (doing so would be quite silly), but serves as a means to present Iran as the champion of the muslim world against the "common foe" Israel, to gather the support of the muslim world for Iran's nuclear ambitions.

    What's your suggestion what should be done, Don?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTex
    China's to dependant on Europe and the US it doesnt hold all the keys. If the EU and US were to come to the agreement of an embargo against iran then China could be muscled in with a little thing called tariffs. Granted it would hurt everyones economy for a bit, but China would eventually agree if they didn't, they'd eventually be broke. We arent so dependent on china that it would crush our economy's either. There are many countries that are developing now that would quickly fill their place, think philipines and india.
    No - China doesn't "hold all the keys" but to believe that the West could "muscle" China into supporting a boycott of its newly chosen main supplier of oil, just by increasing tariffs and starting a trade war is a bit optimistic to say the least.
    And if you believe that the Philippines or India could just "quickly fill China's place" I am wondering what that idea is based on - do you think that all the Western investments in China can just be packed together in a couple of weeks and be shipped to another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by solypsist
    who does everyone always say "invasion" ?? there's no need to invade - all it would take is a bombing run to set their nuclear program back to the stone age. totally winnable. they have no nukes again and mission accomplished
    I doubt that a bombing run will be sufficient to set the nuclear program back to the stone age - AFAIK the setup of the facilities suggests that they cannot easily be completely destroyed by a targeted (conventional) airstrike alone.
    Last edited by Ser Clegane; 04-25-2006 at 17:14.

  15. #105
    BHCWarman88
    Guest

    Unhappy Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTex


    Take a break from the coffee, and turn off the X-Files for awhile.

    haha,I love that pic,lol yup..




    but Anyhow,


    UN can't do anything,like,Say "don't go to war,don't go to war" then when Isreial gets blow to Heck and Back "well,lets vote to see what countries want to go to war or not" screw the UN.


    Second,

    I see no Appreatly Threat from China.Russia won't join in a War,they aren't ready for a major one anyhow. But what Can China do with 2,000,000+ Troops? Do they actually have Excellent Mitliary Weapons, or Merdciore Weapons and just plain on taking out USA if we go to war with Iran??

  16. #106
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Running in circles in the white tower
    Posts
    6,603

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
    But what Can China do with 2,000,000+ Troops? Do they actually have Excellent Mitliary Weapons, or Merdciore Weapons and just plain on taking out USA if we go to war with Iran??

  17. #107
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    9,809

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
    I doubt that a bombing run will be sufficient to set the nuclear program back to the stone age - AFAIK the setup of the facilities suggests that they cannot easily be completely destroyed by a targeted (conventional) airstrike alone.
    Agreed. Iran, having learned the lesson of its neighbor in the 1980's has a far more diffuse and physically difficult to reach set-up of key sites and facilities. But difficult is not impossible. While emulating the Israelis one-strike/one facility takeout would be impossible, anything we can detect we can bomb and -- with the right bomb -- kill. Admittedly, some of the facilities in those mountains might require developing a penetrator the likes of which has not yet been seen, but don't count it out.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  18. #108
    Member Member Lord Winter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,978

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
    haha,I love that pic,lol yup..




    but Anyhow,


    UN can't do anything,like,Say "don't go to war,don't go to war" then when Isreial gets blow to Heck and Back "well,lets vote to see what countries want to go to war or not" screw the UN.


    Second,

    I see no Appreatly Threat from China.Russia won't join in a War,they aren't ready for a major one anyhow. But what Can China do with 2,000,000+ Troops? Do they actually have Excellent Mitliary Weapons, or Merdciore Weapons and just plain on taking out USA if we go to war with Iran??
    The UN's main role in Iran is sanctions. The bigist worry from chinia and russia is there veto power over any sanctions proposed.

    But what Can China do with 2,000,000+ Troops? Do they actually have Excellent Mitliary Weapons, or Merdciore Weapons and just plain on taking out USA if we go to war with Iran??
    2,000,000 troops and 400 nuclear weapons. Weapons arent everything in war far from it, as clauswitz (sp) said there is more to war then just war.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  19. #109
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    12,716

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruchai
    Hmm.

    You know the first rule of warfare: 'Never invade Russia in winter'?

    I think you just trumped it. How about:

    'Never invade an overwhelming nuclear superpower via the Atlantic/Pacific.'

    True, my point was a Nuke is like a sniper rifle, useless up close.

    Iran has stated from the get go that they want to destroy Isreal, thats nothing new. As I said before, a quick bloody war to destroy Iran's nuclear capability and then a defensive action against their non-nuclear forces is the best option. Regime change isn't possible really, so it isn't worth trying.

    As to China, they're like Russia, numbers are all they really have. Soviet Doctrine requires a totally infleaxable force to guard against mutiny. Kill the generals and the house of cards collapses.

    I think with Iran it has always been a question of "when." A country that has as one of its stated aims the destruction of another country is not legitimate. As to the practicalities of nuking Isreal, think about it, this is the culture that gave us suicide bombers.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  20. #110
    BHCWarman88
    Guest

    Lightbulb Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    *You might want to study history.* The Taliban was given several outs to the problem - they refused to comply or negotate with anyone concerning the issue. A direction Iran is chosing to go at this time, but not all diplomatic recourses have been exhausted at this time.

    Same situation with Iraq and Saddam Hussan - 14 times diplomacy was tried to resolve the issue, along with 12 years of conflict over the skies of Iraq. The failure of diplomacy can also be attribute to both sides (the United States, and Iraq). Are you wishing to go down this same path with Iran?

    Are you willing to face the consequences of another war in the Middle-East on the resources of the United States. (include young men in that resource)
    *actually do*






    Ok,if Diplomatic resources won't work,what will we do? Boycott? ok,sounds good.Now,if Boycotting Fails,what then? No other Options,so,War is the only Option after those 2 been exhasuted.


    Yes,I would,there would be no Other Options if Boycotting And/Or Diplomatic Resources failed.

  21. #111
    Guest Tribesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Eire
    Posts
    10,404

    Default Re: Iran

    As to the practicalities of nuking Isreal, think about it, this is the culture that gave us suicide bombers.

    I thought that was the Japanese culture , or the Sri Lankan culture .

    A country that has as one of its stated aims the destruction of another country is not legitimate.
    You mean like N.Korea , China ( up until recently Taiwan) , Turkey , Armenia Azerbaijan , Russia , hey you could even add Britain and the US to the list , or India , Pakistan . Or if you look at political parties stated aims you could add Israel and Palestine
    Not to mention that many of those already have nukes , and have several have given nuclear technology to others .


    One major problem in gaining consensus for any action is credibility , some silly bugger has been shown to cry wolf when there was none , now they cry wolf again but it falls on slightly jaded ears .
    To reinforce their cries they recently issued an intelligence assesment on Iran from a certain Iranian exile group , which was strange as the group is on the proscribed terrorist organisations list and I thought that they didn't deal with terrorists , let alone terrorists that were backed by Saddam .

  22. #112
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    12,716

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    As to the practicalities of nuking Isreal, think about it, this is the culture that gave us suicide bombers.
    I thought that was the Japanese culture , or the Sri Lankan culture .
    Japan was different, in that they were flying their planes into ships, the equivelant of a glory charge by a group of Western Knights. Its an extreme example but the thinking is somewhat different. As to Sri-Lanka, while I'm vagely aware of what you're talking about I must confess ignorance as to details. If they were Muslims my point stands. Regardless the Jihad Matyr was my main point and that stands.

    [QUOTE=Tribesman]A country that has as one of its stated aims the destruction of another country is not legitimate.
    You mean like N.Korea , China ( up until recently Taiwan) , Turkey , Armenia Azerbaijan , Russia , hey you could even add Britain and the US to the list , or India , Pakistan . Or if you look at political parties stated aims you could add Israel and Palestine
    Not to mention that many of those already have nukes , and have several have given nuclear technology to others .[QUOTE=Tribesman]

    Who have Britain and the US pledged to utterly destroy and drive into the see? As to China and North Korea, they're on my list already. The others, well with the exception of Palastine and Isreal I don't know what you're talking about. India and Pakistan are currently at peace, albeit an uneasy one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    [One major problem in gaining consensus for any action is credibility , some silly bugger has been shown to cry wolf when there was none , now they cry wolf again but it falls on slightly jaded ears .
    To reinforce their cries they recently issued an intelligence assesment on Iran from a certain Iranian exile group , which was strange as the group is on the proscribed terrorist organisations list and I thought that they didn't deal with terrorists , let alone terrorists that were backed by Saddam .
    Don't get me stated on the way America does buisness. As to crying wolf, just because it had run away by the time we got there doesn't mean it wasn't there and this time we can see the wolf coming. Although I do agree, there is justifiably little confidence these days.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  23. #113
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kraj skrzydlatych jeźdźców
    Posts
    1,083

    Default Re: Iran

    Big Tex and you go to school, learn other langue and listen to the news there.
    Good option for you would be listenting to BBC - they are impartial.
    Otherwise you will be like you president.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

  24. #114
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    Big Tex and you go to school, learn other langue and listen to the news there.
    Good option for you would be listenting to BBC - they are impartial.
    Otherwise you will be like you president.
    Very Weak
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  25. #115
    BHCWarman88
    Guest

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    Very Weak


    Agreed

  26. #116
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,660

    Default Re: Iran

    All those who are saying that getting on the bad side of China is okay I suggest turning off your PC now.

    Because it may be a long time before you get any more (cheap) electronics and you may want to preserve what you have.

    How many countries actually have a trade surplus with China?

    The U.S. Department of Commerce today reported that the international deficit in goods and services trade reached a record level of $726 billion in 2005, an 18% increase over 2004. The U.S. merchandise deficit alone, which excludes services, was $782 billion, also an 18% increase. The overall deficit increased $1 billion in December alone, to the third highest monthly level on record. The goods and services deficit as a share of U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) increased to an unprecedented 5.8% in 2005 (Figure A ). Rapid increases in the price of oil and related products were responsible for 63% of the increase in the deficit. The growth of the trade deficit with China, which reached $202 billion in 2005, was responsible for the entire increase in the United States’ non-oil trade deficit. The trade deficit in manufactured products (net of refined petroleum) increased $46 billion, to $655 billion (an 8% increase).
    USA

    China's Trade Performance
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  27. #117
    Guest Tribesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Eire
    Posts
    10,404

    Default Re: Iran

    Japan was different, in that they were flying their planes into ships, the equivelant of a glory charge by a group of Western Knights. Its an extreme example but the thinking is somewhat different. As to Sri-Lanka, while I'm vagely aware of what you're talking about I must confess ignorance as to details. If they were Muslims my point stands. Regardless the Jihad Matyr was my main point and that stands.

    So Japan was different , because they were killing by commiting suicide , the western knights were different because they were becoming glorious martyrs , you confess ignorance of the modern terrorist suicide bombers which pre date those in the mid-east , but regardless of that its the muslims that gave the world suicidal killers .....Right

    Who have Britain and the US pledged to utterly destroy and drive into the see?

    Well that would be Saddam Hussains Iraq , they pledged to utterly destroy it , and they are , same with the Talibans Afghanistan .Now they want the same with the mullahs Iran .
    As to China and North Korea, they're on my list already.
    So two more countries on the list then .
    The others, well with the exception of Palastine and Isreal I don't know what you're talking about.
    Ummmm...they are all countries that wish to destroy other countries , there are plenty more to add to the list if you want .
    India and Pakistan are currently at peace, albeit an uneasy one.

    Yeah strange sitution there isn't it , whatever happened to that independant country that was given its right to self determination and independance at the time of partirtion ? Kashmir was its name .

    So your point was , Iran is unique because of its aims , but it is just like many other countries....errrr...not quite unique then .

    As to crying wolf, just because it had run away by the time we got there doesn't mean it wasn't there and this time we can see the wolf coming.
    OMG ....don't tell me you are one of them conspiracy nuts who still think it was all shipped off to Syria or Narnia .

  28. #118
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,534

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    All those who are saying that getting on the bad side of China is okay I suggest turning off your PC now.

    Because it may be a long time before you get any more (cheap) electronics and you may want to preserve what you have.

    How many countries actually have a trade surplus with China?
    My suggested puppet government in China would not only reduce the losses in the war with Iran, it would also allow us to keep up trade with them.
    And Louis, be aware of the irony.

    Concerning the more serious problem of Iranīs nuclear capabilities, I remember the Israelis doing a successful aerial raid to destroy an Iraqi reactor back in the 80ies or so. Apparently Iraq didnīt try to build a new reactor. I donīt know the circumstances about Iranīs reactor(where it geographically is, how it is guarded, how competent/trained their AAA is) but a similar thing might work here, too. Or 100 conventional cruise missiles or something like that(100 so they canīt intercept them all of course).
    Iran will then be very upset of course, but the wuestion is whether they really dare to strike back.

  29. #119
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Japan was different, in that they were flying their planes into ships, the equivelant of a glory charge by a group of Western Knights. Its an extreme example but the thinking is somewhat different. As to Sri-Lanka, while I'm vagely aware of what you're talking about I must confess ignorance as to details. If they were Muslims my point stands. Regardless the Jihad Matyr was my main point and that stands.

    So Japan was different , because they were killing by commiting suicide , the western knights were different because they were becoming glorious martyrs , you confess ignorance of the modern terrorist suicide bombers which pre date those in the mid-east , but regardless of that its the muslims that gave the world suicidal killers .....Right
    Attempting to spin the difference is rather disingenuous. In one examble the suicidal effort is done in battle, in the other the suicidal effort is done against a civilian target. One was done in battle, one is done as a political tool.

    Throwing Sri-Lanka into the discussion is also rather disingenuous since the use of terrorist bombing of civilians pre-dates even that conflict. And if one reviews history just a tad - they will find that while the Tamil Tigers have prefected the tactic, most of the first of the modern sucidial bombings happened in the Middle-East.

    Since I am too Lazy to dig out a book - Wikipedia has a write up on it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombing

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Modern suicide bombing as a political tool can be traced back to the assisination of Czar Alexander II of Russia in 1881. Alexander fell victim to a Nihilist plot. While driving on one of the central streets of St. Petersburg, near the Winter Palace, he was mortally wounded by the explosion of hand-made grenades and died a few hours afterwards. The Czar was killed by the Pole Ignacy Hryniewiecki (1856-1881), who died while intentionally exploding the bomb in during the attack.
    Last edited by Redleg; 04-27-2006 at 14:14.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  30. #120
    Guest Tribesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Eire
    Posts
    10,404

    Default Re: Iran

    The Czar was killed by the Pole Ignacy Hryniewiecki (1856-1881), who died while intentionally exploding the bomb in during the attack.
    Ah , so it was Polish Muslims then

    Attempting to spin the difference is rather disingenuous. In one examble the suicidal effort is done in battle, in the other the suicidal effort is done against a civilian target.
    Vive la difference Red , since yesterdays suicide bombing in Egypt was against a military target then how does that spin into it ?
    most of the first of the modern sucidial bombings happened in the Middle-East.

    Yep and most of the first suicide bombings in the Middle-East were also against military targets ..... so the point is....does any of that factually fit with this statement ....think about it, this is the culture that gave us suicide bombers. ?.....nope .

    Funnily enough , the lazy link you gave puts the first suicide bombing in Israel down to the Japanese , but I suppose they could have been radical Muslim communist Japanese , just to fit with the "culture" thing
    Members of the JRA became instructors in martial art and Kamikaze operations at several Hezbollah training camps bringing the suicide techniques to the Middle East.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO