Research: Loyalty and Emerging Factions

[Ludens]

At the request of Zarax I am opening a new thread for research into the mechanisms of faction (re-)emergences. The main object of this thread is to find out how these features can be used in modifications.


Loyalty

What we know about loyalty is:

• A shadowing faction will become the shadowed one once the former is destroyed.
• The system works best with pairs, i.e. one faction shadowing another. A faction can be shadowed maximum by two factions: a third one would cause CTD if all are destroyed.
• It seems to work even with unmatched pairs, i.e. only one faction shadowing or being shadowed without a value being set.
• A faction cannot be shadowed by the slaves, because when that faction is destroyed all slave provinces will turn into that faction and then a CTD will occur.
• The combination of a faction in horde-mode and loyalty may cause a CTD.

• If a faction is re-emergent, but currently dead, a character rebeling to that faction will cause a CTD.
• If a faction is not re-emergent, and currently dead, then then a character rebeling to that faction will not cause a CTD, but the character will be inactive.
• If a faction starts with no provinces, characters rebeling to that faction will be inactive, even after the faction emerges.
• If a faction starts with some provinces, gets killed off, but then re-emerges, then characters that rebel to that faction will be active.

What we need to know is:

The exact set of requisites to have the loyalty system working; currently it is subject to CTDs without clear cause.

Emerging Factions

About emergent factions we have the following data:

• Their appearances are triggered by date, rebellion or a settlement conquered.
• They can be linked to the loyalty system, as shown in BI.
• One type of emergence can give limited hording abilities (Romano-British in BI).
• Playable factions cannot be set as re-emergent.

What need need to know is:

1. How much is hardcoded and how much can be modded.
2. The exact code requirements to enable an emerging faction.
3. What triggers are needed for a Romano-British-like emergent faction.

[Zarax]

Thanks for accepting my request Ludens.

Here are a couple threads on TWC that discussed loyalty in depth, will add organized info lately...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ht=shadowed_by

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ht=shadowed_by

[Zarax]

Some more info:

- A faction can be shadowed maximum by two factions, a third one would cause CTD if all are killed

- you cannot have a faction shadowed by the slaves as when the faction is defeated all slave provinces will turn into that faction and then CTD

- CTD may happen with factions that start as a horde

And here's what can cause CTD's or weird behaviour with rebel factions:

I have done a few more tests with loyalty, and here is how things look so far.

(1) Bad news. If a faction is re-emergent, but currently dead, then a character rebeling to that faction will cause a CTD.
(2) Bad news. If a faction starts with no provinces then characters rebeling to that faction will be inactive, even after the faction emerges.
(3) Good news/bad news. If a faction is not re-emergent, and currently dead, then then a character rebeling to that faction will not cause a CTD, but the character will be inactive.
(3) Good news. If a faction starts with some provinces, gets killed off, but then re-emerges, then characters that rebel to that faction will be active.

I can see a few ways to get workable loyalty within these constraints.

(1) Give rebel factions an uncapturable province so that they never really die. Loyalty will work fine, but in other ways this is a clunky solution.
(2) Give all rebel factions at least one starting province, stop rebel factions from re-emerging, and stop characters from rebeling once the rebel faction is dead. This is the most reliable system. There will be no CTDs. There might be a small risk of characters rebeling in the turn that a rebel faction is killed off and becoming inactive. Obviously this would only make sense for a faction like the ICS which starts off with many provinces. There would be no point in trying to do this with the Roman rebels.
(3) Give all rebel factions at least one starting province, allow rebel factions to re-emerge, and stop characters from rebeling once the rebel faction is dead. This might entail a small risk of CTDs in the turn that a rebel faction is killed off. Reloading should work fine, so this will not kill a campaign, and it should be rare enough that it won't be a nuisance.