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Thread: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

  1. #31

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by kataphraktoi
    Since we can't have the Sunni/Shia split, either Sunni or SHia will have to be the heretics. 3 of 4 Muslim Factions are SUnnis, so I think the Shia will be the heretics. Not out of personal bias or anything cos I'm not Muslim, I'm following the "majority" mentality thats all.
    If you have to make one of them heretics the Shia is by far the best choice. They split off the mainstream muslims (which are now known as the Sunni) so in that way they are just as much heretics as all the other heretics, since the word in general applies to the way the Roman catholics saw the religious groups that split from the Church and other non catholics. But this raises another question: will you include the group from whose name the word assasin is derived? They're called Assassijnen in Dutch. They joined forces with the Shia to fight the Sunni and where famous for their suicide attacks on Sunni leaders.
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  2. #32

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
    If you have to make one of them heretics the Shia is by far the best choice. They split off the mainstream muslims (which are now known as the Sunni) so in that way they are just as much heretics as all the other heretics, since the word in general applies to the way the Roman catholics saw the religious groups that split from the Church and other non catholics. But this raises another question: will you include the group from whose name the word assasin is derived? They're called Assassijnen in Dutch. They joined forces with the Shia to fight the Sunni and where famous for their suicide attacks on Sunni leaders.
    They real name was "Batanis" FYI. And they were Shia. They were originally from Iran and were founded by a man named Hassan. In this timeline they dont exist yet so no need to work on them untill the next era. ;)
    Last edited by Trajen the 1st; 07-19-2006 at 06:53.

  3. #33
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    new concept, check first post.

    interesting about the manuel komnenos and his golden armour though
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  4. #34

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Okey FINALLY got to see the map and it looks great sofar! My only compliant is that Germany and maybe France have too many provinces and the Middle East doesint have enough. This really does'int make sense since the ME was the more highly populated area at the time period of the mod. Plus noone wants to spend most of there campiagns in Germany and France.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    I read that emperor Manuel I Comneni has protected whole body with golden armor in that battle! And I think it was plate armor from describe. It is recorded by Greek John Kinam (or Cinam).
    It wasn't plate armour, cuz it wasn't invented back then. Instead it could be just cuirass for chest with golden decorations.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkus
    It wasn't plate armour, cuz it wasn't invented back then. Instead it could be just cuirass for chest with golden decorations.
    That's why I wrote "I think". Record of battle by John Ciman said he was all in golden armour (whenever that mean). Maybe you have right.
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    I resized map because original map is just too large and upload to imageshack.us. Who want to see greater map (resolution is 3508*2480) know where is the link.



    According to map, factions are (alphabetical order):

    Roman Catholics: Aragon, Castile-Leon, Denmark, England, France, Holy Roman Empire, Hungary, Mediterranean Normans, Normandy, Papal State, Poland, Scotland and Venice

    Orthodox: Georgia, Roman Empire, Rus’ and Serbia*

    Muslim: Egypt**, Moors and Seljuk Turks


    * Most of (modern) Serbia was under direct Byzantium rule and those Serbs who were free and had state in Zeta were mostly Roman Catholics and rulers were also. How this will be solved, I don’t know until M2 TW came on market.
    ** Egypt was ruled by Fatimid dynasty (Fatimid Caliphate) who was de facto shia.
    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; 07-19-2006 at 17:26.
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  8. #38
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Okey FINALLY got to see the map and it looks great sofar! My only compliant is that Germany and maybe France have too many provinces and the Middle East doesint have enough. This really does'int make sense since the ME was the more highly populated area at the time period of the mod. Plus noone wants to spend most of there campiagns in Germany and France.
    I actually trimmed down the province numbers for France and Germany and increased the number of provinces for the Middle East!!! It drove me nuts trying to erase provinces from Europe

    By the way which provinces would you erase anyway? This is a draft map, so its likely a new version will be made later.

    True, the Middle East had more population, but there were highly concentrated in its greater urban centres than Europe. Plus, a poorer Western Europe would benefit from a few more provinces as revenue bases.
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  9. #39
    WoT fanatic Member 4th Dimension's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    Most of (modern) Serbia was under direct Byzantium rule and those Serbs who were free and had state in Zeta were mostly Roman Catholics and rulers were also. How this will be solved, I don’t know until M2 TW came on market.
    Maby make mixed population in the cities, and then you have to convert your populace to the prefered religion. That woul be acording to history (at least I think), because Stefan Nemanja did have the option to chose to which religion will he side. He was ultimately swayed into ortodox faith by his son Sava.

    At least that's what I think. I may be wrong.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    A few things.

    Spain and north africa look far too barren. I think some moor islamic factions are really needed.

    And secondly that very many provinces. Im not sure Ireland for example needs three provinces for itself.

  11. #41
    It was a trap, after all. Member DukeofSerbia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Whole Moslem Iberia (Umayyad) desintegrated in begginig of XI century into various emirates. So, those Taifa kingdoms will be represented as rebels.
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    Whole Moslem Iberia (Umayyad) desintegrated in begginig of XI century into various emirates. So, those Taifa kingdoms will be represented as rebels.
    Yea, but still kinda unbalancing.

    Another thing I just noticed.

    The French lands are simply the French Crown lands resulting in most of France being rebels. The HRE which was really just a loose collection of states however is completly unified including Bohemia thus has no rebels. This does not make sense. France is piecmealed wich is rather accurate, yet at the same time the Holy Roman Empire is a single entity. This just seems terribly unbalancing.

  13. #43
    It was a trap, after all. Member DukeofSerbia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    I'm in charge for Serbia and mostly Balkan (South Slavs), so I can't comment about what is not my area.
    This map is just preview and there will be changes, I'm sure.

    P.S.
    About HRE I agree. We don't no how loyalty will function. Remeber HRE from MTW - when you started, most generals had very low loyalty, and AI always went in civil war. Voltaire said: "This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire."
    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; 07-19-2006 at 21:27.
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  14. #44

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    I know changes will be made to the map but regarding the Crown of Aragon I don't know how you will call the starting province...
    you have united Aragon and Catalonia in one province and both are cut in half (I know this is correct in terms of representing the area they owned at the time but you will have to "invent" a new name for the province).
    I'd made them start with two provinces: Aragon and Catalonia and make them both bigger, deleting the one southwards.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    wat do you mean? i see, going along the northern coast from the left, galicia (or possibly leon), castilla, navarra, zaragosa.

  16. #46
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Feedback is always, I just want everyone to know that its still a draft concept map until I get the researchers I need.

    I'm looking for a head researcher into France and HRE.
    I know changes will be made to the map but regarding the Crown of Aragon I don't know how you will call the starting province...
    you have united Aragon and Catalonia in one province and both are cut in half (I know this is correct in terms of representing the area they owned at the time but you will have to "invent" a new name for the province).
    I'd made them start with two provinces: Aragon and Catalonia and make them both bigger, deleting the one southwards.
    I'm trying to erase more provinces so I can split the Crown of Aragon into two, don't worry Almogaver, I want to split it into two provinces, but just not yet, I'm still balancing other stuff

    The reason why I won't delete the Taifa of Zaragossa is because I want as many Taifa's represented as possible. But of course some Taifas cannot be represented. Keep ur feed back coming, its appreciated.

    Yea, but still kinda unbalancing.

    Another thing I just noticed.

    The French lands are simply the French Crown lands resulting in most of France being rebels. The HRE which was really just a loose collection of states however is completly unified including Bohemia thus has no rebels. This does not make sense. France is piecmealed wich is rather accurate, yet at the same time the Holy Roman Empire is a single entity. This just seems terribly unbalancing.
    Taifa states won't be pushovers, they will have adequate armies to prevent a simple overrunning by the Christian states.

    Originally, I intended for the HRE to have only provinces under direct control, but I just decided to give them everything just to see how it would turn out, but my first intention is to limit HRE to its German hinterland which excludes Bohemia, Burgundy and Italy. It is likely, I will do this in the next map because I never felt comfortable giving HRE control over provinces they never had direct control over. Like Spain, at least the rebels will be formidable. WHen the time comes, MTR will decide how to implement gameplay so that defeating rebels requires more than winning one battle, but will involve other strategic considerations.

    One of my thoughts revolved around giving faactions provinces they had direct control over. Eg. Byzantium had Serbia, Georgia and the Mirdasid/Marwanids as vassals, but I do not think it would represent them fairly in the game so I decided not to give them such territories. I also intend to change the Turk's territories in the future since Transoxiana was a vassal state, not a Seljuk province.

    A few things.

    Spain and north africa look far too barren. I think some moor islamic factions are really needed.

    And secondly that very many provinces. Im not sure Ireland for example needs three provinces for itself.
    Lol, I originally gave 14 provinces to North AFRICA, but the 199 province limit forced me to cut down provinces. Im operating on the assumption that the province limit for mtw2 is the same as RTW.
    Last edited by kataphraktoi; 07-20-2006 at 05:56.
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  17. #47

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    I would give the HRE control over everything. It would work perfectly with my feudal system.

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  18. #48
    It was a trap, after all. Member DukeofSerbia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by kataphraktoi

    One of my thoughts revolved around giving faactions provinces they had direct control over. Eg. Byzantium had Serbia, Georgia and the Mirdasid/Marwanids as vassals, but I do not think it would represent them fairly in the game so I decided not to give them such territories. I also intend to change the Turk's territories in the future since Transoxiana was a vassal state, not a Seljuk province.
    Prince of Zeta (Dioclea) Michael in 1062 wasn't vassal of Roman Empire. He was indepedent and he received crown from Pope in 1077 (first Serbian king).
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  19. #49

    Question Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Will Venice be somehow represented?

    (They began as the most western city of the Eastern Roman Empire, became a semi independent city state with control over the Balkans later and ended up as a completely independent city state.)

    Which raises my next question: will the Silk road and more important the trade routes in the Med from and towards Venice be represented? I mean Venice being Europe's key to silk, spices and so on...
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  20. #50

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    @ Orda Khan, Kataphrakoi, and especially Wraithdt - how on earth do you manage to draw concept art like that? Do you just use a standard pencil, read up on some info and then draw away? I've been trying to draw some concept art, have you got any tips, becuase those drawings are incredible!

  21. #51
    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Taifa states won't be pushovers, they will have adequate armies to prevent a simple overrunning by the Christian states.
    Well if there is really a 30 faction limit like they said why not make Coroboda a faction? I just think factions are funnier to fight than rebels and a spain filled with rebels, dispite how strong they may be would be kinda boring.

    Originally, I intended for the HRE to have only provinces under direct control, but I just decided to give them everything just to see how it would turn out, but my first intention is to limit HRE to its German hinterland which excludes Bohemia, Burgundy and Italy. It is likely, I will do this in the next map because I never felt comfortable giving HRE control over provinces they never had direct control over. Like Spain, at least the rebels will be formidable. WHen the time comes, MTR will decide how to implement gameplay so that defeating rebels requires more than winning one battle, but will involve other strategic considerations.
    My point was less HRE should or should not have control over all its lands as it was if they do then France certainly should. Im aware of the situation of the French Crown, but aside from Brittany, Normady, Flanders, and Burgundy, France should be excert control over its own territory. Otherwise the situation is again one that doesnt seem apealing gamewise.

    Lol, I originally gave 14 provinces to North AFRICA, but the 199 province limit forced me to cut down provinces. Im operating on the assumption that the province limit for mtw2 is the same as RTW.
    I meant in terms of factions. Again all rebel. People like factions. Fighting rebels gets dry and boring. Is there no faction that could be around tunisia or something?

  22. #52
    WoT fanatic Member 4th Dimension's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
    Well if there is really a 30 faction limit like they said why not make Coroboda a faction? I just think factions are funnier to fight than rebels and a spain filled with rebels, dispite how strong they may be would be kinda boring.



    My point was less HRE should or should not have control over all its lands as it was if they do then France certainly should. Im aware of the situation of the French Crown, but aside from Brittany, Normady, Flanders, and Burgundy, France should be excert control over its own territory. Otherwise the situation is again one that doesnt seem apealing gamewise.



    I meant in terms of factions. Again all rebel. People like factions. Fighting rebels gets dry and boring. Is there no faction that could be around tunisia or something?
    To reply to that sugestion about 30 fact.
    We don't know if there would be that many factions. So they are putting on map only those necsary that fit into what we know about faction number. If we find out when gam comes out that there is indeed f limit of 30 then aditional will be included. Untill then they go I think by RTW limit.

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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Well if there is really a 30 faction
    I kinda covered myself on that one...

  24. #54
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Well if there is really a 30 faction limit like they said why not make Coroboda a faction? I just think factions are funnier to fight than rebels and a spain filled with rebels, dispite how strong they may be would be kinda boring.
    Don't you see the point? THats only IF... we don't know if its a certainty or not so we can only plan for 21 factions, its the most sensible thing to do. It is far easier to add a faction than remove one. Believe I've thought a LOT about what factions to include, of course, I would love to include more factions....but as you already know....I am constrained. So please understand.

    My point was less HRE should or should not have control over all its lands as it was if they do then France certainly should. Im aware of the situation of the French Crown, but aside from Brittany, Normady, Flanders, and Burgundy, France should be excert control over its own territory. Otherwise the situation is again one that doesnt seem apealing gamewise.
    And my point is, its still a draft concept map. We are still adjusting things. I just hope people don't see it as FINAL MAP. So please, while I accept all feedback, just don't assume its a final map. I think it would be a good challenge to assert proper and direct control over France than just give them territories of their vassals. But it depends in the end on Ignoramus and his fuedalism idea. Like everything else, we are still changing.

    I meant in terms of factions. Again all rebel. People like factions. Fighting rebels gets dry and boring. Is there no faction that could be around tunisia or something?
    As I said before. Faction limitations. I'd like to add another Moorish faction, but I can't.

    To reply to that sugestion about 30 fact.
    We don't know if there would be that many factions. So they are putting on map only those necsary that fit into what we know about faction number. If we find out when gam comes out that there is indeed f limit of 30 then aditional will be included. Untill then they go I think by RTW limit.


    I would be the first one to add more factions. But until then, we wait.

    Will Venice be somehow represented?

    (They began as the most western city of the Eastern Roman Empire, became a semi independent city state with control over the Balkans later and ended up as a completely independent city state.)

    Which raises my next question: will the Silk road and more important the trade routes in the Med from and towards Venice be represented? I mean Venice being Europe's key to silk, spices and so on...
    Yep, its on the map, but you just have to zoom cos its small hehehe.

    Hmmm interesting idea about the Silk Trade Route, I suppose when it comes to modding it, certain cities along the Slik Trade Route will recieve bonuses, Eg. Train merchants with bonus ability or something like that.

    Venice controls Istria (joined to Venice, not by land but by province borders); Zara and Spalato at the beginning of the mod. I have to change ownership of Ragusa to Byzantines later.

    As Venice you can conquer and limit yourself to islands and port enclaves should you decide to stay as a naval power.

    If I recall the islands/enclaves you can conquer in the Mediterranean and Black Sea are:\
    1) Chios - known for its valuable mastic, and worth a province in my opinon
    2) Crete - good archers
    3) Rhodes
    4) Cyprus
    5) Euboea or Negroponte
    6) Peloponessus or Morea
    7) Athens
    8) Klimata, covers Cherson, Sudak, Caffa
    9) Tmutarakan
    10) Corsica
    11) Sardinia
    12) Balaerics
    13) Sicily
    14) Malta
    15) Tunis
    16) Tripoli
    17) Acre
    18) Genoa
    19) Arles

    Happy sailing and trading

    I've always wanted to play as the Venetians

    I kinda covered myself on that one...
    hehe no probs. By the whats ur favourite faction?
    Last edited by kataphraktoi; 07-21-2006 at 08:54.
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    As I said before. Faction limitations. I'd like to add another Moorish faction, but I can't.
    This is more or less what I wanted to hear :). I understand you right now have the basic plan, but its good to hear that if possible you would be happy to add more factions in the areas I highlighted.

    And my point is, its still a draft concept map. We are still adjusting things. I just hope people don't see it as FINAL MAP. So please, while I accept all feedback, just don't assume its a final map. I think it would be a good challenge to assert proper and direct control over France than just give them territories of their vassals. But it depends in the end on Ignoramus and his fuedalism idea. Like everything else, we are still changing.
    Which is why im discussing, not crying. As this is not the final product I figured now is the time to offer my two cents. That being said you guys have been very good about responding to critisisms :)

    As Venice you can conquer and limit yourself to islands and port enclaves should you decide to stay as a naval power.

    If I recall the islands/enclaves you can conquer in the Mediterranean and Black Sea are:\
    1) Chios - known for its valuable mastic, and worth a province in my opinon
    2) Crete - good archers
    3) Rhodes
    4) Cyprus
    5) Euboea or Negroponte
    6) Peloponessus or Morea
    7) Athens
    8) Klimata, covers Cherson, Sudak, Caffa
    9) Tmutarakan
    10) Corsica
    11) Sardinia
    12) Balaerics
    13) Sicily
    14) Malta
    15) Tunis
    16) Tripoli
    17) Acre
    18) Genoa
    19) Arles

    Happy sailing and trading

    I've always wanted to play as the Venetians
    Now that sounds like an intresting faction indeed :)

  26. #56
    It was a trap, after all. Member DukeofSerbia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by kataphraktoi

    Venice controls Istria (joined to Venice, not by land but by province borders); Zara and Spalato at the beginning of the mod. I have to change ownership of Ragusa to Byzantines later.
    What controled Venice is good question. As I know Dubrovnik/Ragusa was independent Republic and in 1062 they accepted Byzantine supremace, but Roman troops weren't never in town. So, Ragusa/Dubrovnik will be rebel town.

    I will look for Zara/Zadar and Spalato/Split what status they had in 1062. Later they were under Venice noth.
    Remember that Zara was sacked by Crusaders in November 1202. After that Zara became part of Venice. Probably Rebels, too.
    Spalato/Split was took by Venice in 1420. Again Rebels, too.
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Dalmatia (Zara and Split) were protectorates under Venice. Basil II bestowed upon the Doges of Venice responsibility for the Dalmatia. The question of Ragusa is harder.

    Ragusa was an archontate before the 11th century with a small number of men (100 or so), but in 1062, there is a much more ambiguous situation, perhaps a slow move to independence, I will research this tomorrow as I came across it a few days ago. A history book on Serbia reveals conflicts between Serbs and Byzantines with evidence that Ragusa was under direct Byzantine control, I will check back tomorrow and post my findings
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  28. #58

    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Woad Warrior
    @ Orda Khan, Kataphrakoi, and especially Wraithdt - how on earth do you manage to draw concept art like that? Do you just use a standard pencil, read up on some info and then draw away? I've been trying to draw some concept art, have you got any tips, becuase those drawings are incredible!
    Speaking for myself, it's pencil work; I believe Wraithdt uses a palate (which I must look into due to the splendid finish achieved)
    A while back, Duke John asked if I would colour the sketches I have done and I have completed 4 of them in water colours, so I will post them shortly. I am currently constructing a leather lamellar cuirass (very time consuming) so I am a little bogged down at the moment.
    I have spent many years researching nomadic life on the steppe, the Mongols and Huns in particular. Historical accounts and pictures help and archaeological finds add invaluable information. Of course, when trying to achieve historical accuracy, nobody can claim to be 100% spot on the best we can do is form a picture from the evidence before us.
    Good luck with the concepts

    .......Orda

  29. #59
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    shOW us a pic of u in lamellar one day won't u?
    Retired from games altogether!!

    Feudalism TOtal War, non-active member and supporter. Long Live Orthodox Christianity!

  30. #60
    It was a trap, after all. Member DukeofSerbia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by kataphraktoi
    Dalmatia (Zara and Split) were protectorates under Venice. Basil II bestowed upon the Doges of Venice responsibility for the Dalmatia. The question of Ragusa is harder.

    Ragusa was an archontate before the 11th century with a small number of men (100 or so), but in 1062, there is a much more ambiguous situation, perhaps a slow move to independence, I will research this tomorrow as I came across it a few days ago. A history book on Serbia reveals conflicts between Serbs and Byzantines with evidence that Ragusa was under direct Byzantine control, I will check back tomorrow and post my findings
    About Dubrovnik - in 1062 town was under Byzantium protection. And I will also look for true. http://www.hostkingdom.net/westbalk.html#Ragusa

    Venice had control of Zadar and Split only on paper, especially Zadar. Reality was different. And that I will check.
    Watching
    EURO 2008 & Mobile Suit Gundam 00

    Waiting for: Wimbledon 2008.

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