Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition

[Cadmus]

I know the title is Total War, but as 'passive' loading screens:

- A screenshot of a merchant cart riding up to a gate (you remember that shot in Kingdom of Heaven, when Balian arrived at Jerusalem, with the city bristling with people.

- A screenshot of one of the Almohad? castles overlooking a plain with tents of the christians (some sort of 'plain'watch...), this on the Iberian Peninsula.

- Though they are again not in, a screenshot of a fleet of vessels, like the ones they used in the Age of Exploring, so with a Spanish flag preferable.

- A screenshot of a view over a city (that is being besieged) wall, looking over the encampment of the enemy, with the trebuchets, the palisades, the numerous tents. When this is happening can be chosen, either before the battle (with everyone is preparing, all in formation, having the leader ride in front of them), during the battle (well, here I don't have to draw you a sketch), or after (when they are carrying away the dead and trying to heal the wounded, while also fixing the machinery and preparing for the nexy assault).

[SaberHRE]

1) Charge of Emperor Constantine during seige of Constantinople.
2) Bannockburn
3) Genghis Khan on horse
4) Saladin sparing some crusaders
5) Third Crusade Arrival with two rivals Lionheart and Auguste

[Randarkmaan]

Ah just one I thought of: Someone being knighted!

[Orda Khan]

Much as I like the idea of Chingis Khan on horseback as a loading screen, I doubt any Mongol on horseback would appeal to many. IMO the choice should come from a battle scene or similar

..........Orda

[wraithdt]

Whoah......so many ideas, so little time. Excuse me while I go clone myself.


Seriously, why did I ever agree to do this?

[polak966]

well you dont have to all of them
but itd be nice if every faction was represent...

[Ringeck]

Most factions should be represented. Therefore I present a list of different concepts per faction!

Also, battle pictures we can lift out of the engine, scenes we cannot.

Scottish:
Robert the Bruce attacking Robert de Comyn before the high altar of the Greyfriars Monastery. Or Bruce being crowned king by Isabellla MacDuff at Scone (no stone, though). A battle would have to be Bannockburn

England (Normans): Richard I besieging a castle (his favorite activity) or John signing the Magna Carta. Battle would have to be Agincourt (best known and all).

Danes: A large fleet of longships entering York in 1069. Or Margaret I being elected "Sovereign Lady and Ruler" by the swedish nobility. Battle would almost certainly have to be Lyndanisse, complete with mythological flag falling from the skies.

Duchy of Southern Italy: Robert Guiscard and his Normans landing at night in Messina. Or Roger II being crowned in Palermo. Battle would have to be Dyrrachium.

Papal States: The pope in his pope hat. More spesifically, Gregory VII and Emperor Henry IV outside the walls of Canossa. No battle, this event is so symbolically laden (although politically, it could be considered a loss) that it is a natural screen for the papacy.

HRE: The Concordat of Worms: Calixtus II and Henry V trying to bury the Investiture Conflict with a treaty. Or a Reichtag (anyone, really) in session, electing an emperor. Battle: Monte Porzio.

Poland: Władysław I doing something impressive, like opening the Academia Cracoviensis or overseeing th construction of a castle. Or some sort of germanization image; settlers building townships, perhaps. Battle; Tannenberg, what else.

Rus: A veche council assembling in a russian city. Or Vladimir Monomach entering Kiev in 1113 to the greeting of a jubilant populace. Battle: The Kievan/Chernigovian army defeating Quipchak/Polovtsii/Cumans.

France: A great gothic cathedral, such as the Notre-Dame de Paris. Jeanne d'Arc rallying the troops, or Charles VII entering Reims for his coronation. Battle: Bouvines or Patay.


Crown of Aragon: Peter III landing at Trapani with his army or Almogàvere mercenaries gathering for a naval campaign, with the aragonese fleet off the coast. Battle: The fall of Valencia.

Leon-Castile: Alfonose VI taking possesion of Toledo in 1085. Castilian noble gathering tribute from a muslim taifa king. Battle: Las Navas des Tolosa, of course.


Moorish Sultanate: Almoravid Yusuf ibn Tashfin founding Marrakesh, or Ibn Tumart preaching in north Africa. Battle: Alarcos.

Egyptian Sultanate: The Fatimid caliph in his throne room, "guarded" by his turkish bodyguard minders. Saladin in hero-positure. Battle: Hattin

Turkish Sultanate: Nizam al-Mulk establishing the Nizamiyyah academy, or Mehmed II entering Constantinople. Battle: Manzikert, or a scene from the siege of Constantinople.

Romaion (Byzantines): The Land Walls of Constantinople or (any) Emperor at the Hippodrome. Battle: one of the Komnenoi restoration - Levounion or Myriocephalum would be coolest.

Serbs: Sava being made archbishop of autonomous Serbia in 1219. Or Tzar Stefan Dusan presenting his Code. Battle: Kosovo Polje. A defeat, but one so integrated into the serbian national character that it almost has to be there.


Venice: The Arsenale building war galleys, or a regatta in the canals of Venice. Battle: The fall of Constantinople, with the venetians breaking into the city from the sea-side.

Hungary: Andrew II issuing the Golden Bull of 1222. Louis I modernizing Hungary (building the university of Pest or something like that). Battle: Marchfeld or Hodmezo

Mongols: The Golden Tent at Sarai, or Baghdad being sacked. Battle: Köse Dag or Mohi

Georgia-Sakartvelo: David IV entering Tblisi, or the fortress of Khertvisi. Battle: Shamkor

Cumans/Qipchaqs: A group of Qiuipchaq noblemen listening to a hungarian priest preaching, the priest carrying a copy of the Codex Cumanicus. Or a Quipchaq army of steppe horsemen traversing an open plain. Battle: Stugna River

[kataphraktoi]

New updated Research Template
http://www.geocities.com/weirdguynex...chTemplate.doc

Attention:

FAENARIS
SABREHRE
CUTEPUPPY

You guys identified HRE as the faction you'd like to research, well, that makes you guys a team! Be sure to co-operate on the template and share the load PM each other or something.

[Cadmus]

Wraithdt, not to dampen your spirit even more, but on the twcenter forum they also asked for suggestions for these backgrounds..

[Zastrow]

Why the name Age of Ambition? How is this age any more Ambitious than any other age?

Regardless the campaign map setup looks good, and no Amurica, excellent.

[DukeofSerbia]

Serbs: Sava being made archbishop of autonomous Serbia in 1219.

Autonomous Serbia?! You mean autocephalous Sebian Orthodox Church under name "Archbishopry of Žiča".

Or Tzar Stefan Dusan presenting his Code.

Better is the coronation of Stefan Dušan became Emperor of Serbs and Romans.

Battle: Kosovo Polje. A defeat, but one so integrated into the serbian national character that it almost has to be there.

Defeat? No, it wasn't. The most Serbian historians believe in that, but facts said something else. The problem is that Ottomans ruled so long over Serbs that they introduced their version of battle where they are clear winner.

[SaberHRE]

New updated Research Template
http://www.geocities.com/weirdguynex...chTemplate.doc

Attention:

FAENARIS
SABREHRE
CUTEPUPPY

You guys identified HRE as the faction you'd like to research, well, that makes you guys a team! Be sure to co-operate on the template and share the load PM each other or something.

No worries, i'm currently discussing provinces with Cutepuppy, and we're deciding on what parts each of us are going to concentrate.

Is Faenaris registered?

[Faenaris]

Hiya all. :)

Yes, I'm registered, but I think there is a small misunderstanding. I can do some research for the Teutonic Order, England and the Crusades. I have almost no info about the HRE. :s

Still, if you guys really want me to help out, I'll go to the bookstore when I have some time and see what I can find regarding the HRE.

Also, as I have said to Kataphraktoi, I'm currently not available for heavy duty research (I got exams), but I am back in action around middle of September.

[Ringeck]

Autonomous Serbia?! You mean autocephalous Sebian Orthodox Church under name "Archbishopry of Žiča".

Serbia as an autonomous wing of the orthodox church, yes.

Better is the coronation of Stefan Dušan became Emperor of Serbs and Romans.

Trying to cut back on the coronations. Practically every nation has a famous one in their history.

Defeat? No, it wasn't. The most Serbian historians believe in that, but facts said something else. The problem is that Ottomans ruled so long over Serbs that they introduced their version of battle where they are clear winner.

Er. That's a new one. Not only do most Serbian historians believe that, but most other historians do as well. What exactly do you mean?

[kataphraktoi]

Why the name Age of Ambition? How is this age any more Ambitious than any other age?

Because the medieval period lays the foundation for much of what's happening in the modern era. Plus the individuals in this period were more influential than in the dark ages were they not? Through their ambition, they created history.

Saladin and his wars against the Crusades.
The Battle of Hastings which changed England more than any other period prior to it - thanks to Willaim the COnqueror.
The Battle of Manzikert paving the way for the Ottomans
The Church Schism and the sack of Constantinople leading to the fractured relations in Church we had today because of ambitious Church leaders.
The worldwide ambition of Genghis Khan which unleashed on the most cataclysmic periods in history.
Same with Timurlane.
etc, etc, etc....

So really, Age of Ambition is a cumulative aggregate of the activity in this period and the individuals who shaped it.

Moreover, considering our campaign map...players with ambition can write their own history.

[Cadmus]

Ah well, I have a question about the campaign map. I know you want to include as many provinces as possible, but what concerns the Rus, there's even a province that I should divide amongst its neighbours. This is the Principality (or Duchy) of Nizhny-Novgorod, of which the boundaries didn't come into effect until say 1096, so about 30 years past our starting date. But if you want to include it...
And other provinces just had different names, so no sweat there.

Btw, is there anything you'll be needing already from the template?

[kataphraktoi]

Ah well, I have a question about the campaign map. I know you want to include as many provinces as possible, but what concerns the Rus, there's even a province that I should divide amongst its neighbours. This is the Principality (or Duchy) of Nizhny-Novgorod, of which the boundaries didn't come into effect until say 1096, so about 30 years past our starting date. But if you want to include it...
And other provinces just had different names, so no sweat there.

Btw, is there anything you'll be needing already from the template?

Ah, I'm glad someone commented on the Rus provinces.

I'm no expert on Rus history, so I based my borders on what could happen in the future concerning these borders which I lifted out from Rus history books in the time when Rus had already broken up and I used the borders.

However, I would not mind if u submitted changes to borders. Send me a map with the proposed changes

ANd with the names too.

Plus, no, I wont be needing anything from the templates. Has everyone got the new template?

Just a note, you can add anything which wasn't mentioned in the template.

[Cadmus]

Well, as the historian for these Rus barbarians, it's only logical that I intervene ay
But how do I send you the map, doesn't work with PM (because I'm still junior member my guess)

[DukeofSerbia]

Serbia as an autonomous wing of the orthodox church, yes.

Do you know difference between autocephalous and autonomous Church? Serbian Church then became autocephaluos, not autonomus.

Er. That's a new one. Not only do most Serbian historians believe that, but most other historians do as well. What exactly do you mean?

Later about that.

[Ringeck]

Send me a PM about the Kosovo Polje thing, I don't think this thread should contain too much historical debate.

Do you know difference between autocephalous and autonomous Church? Serbian Church then became autocephaluos, not autonomus.

I believe the term means that the head archbishop does not report to any higher-ranking bishop and that the church is ruled by itself, still remaining in communion with the rest of orthodoxy but is self-governing? Is there a rank called autonomous? I was using autonomous as it is commonly used in the english language for organizations - self-governing, not subject to outside authority. My only good treatice on serbian medieval history is Durhams old 1989 book, so there might be some holes in my knowledge (as I suspect there is in your medieval scandinavian history ).

[kataphraktoi]

Well, as the historian for these Rus barbarians, it's only logical that I intervene ay
But how do I send you the map, doesn't work with PM (because I'm still junior member my guess)

email me.

Fuzzwuzznuzz @ hot mail . com

And remember guys, there is 199 province we're working with.

We have 198 But I'm leaving the last one empty.

[Romanus]

A rank called autonomous? If there was such a rank either you would be a heretic or a patriarch.;p

[kataphraktoi]

A rank called autonomous? If there was such a rank either you would be a heretic or a patriarch.;p

The Orthodox Christians were much more pragmatic, or should I say, the Byzantine Emperors. Basil II himself downgraded the Patriarchate of Ochrid to an Archbishopric and made it Autonomous from the Patriarch of Constantinople.

I guess it would be the Catholics who would go apopletic at the rank.

[kataphraktoi]

Hey guys, I was thinking about the two-option system for tech trees as mentioned by CA's developers of choosing either tech tree that emphasises military or revenue raising.

I think this is a great idea, but even greater when modding it!!

Here is an example of what I've been for the Byzantines concerning the two-option system and how it will be re-modded for the MTR:AOA. This is intended to get team members thinking of gameplay features.

Byzantine players will come across the Tagmatic and Thematic military systems which existed in the time period. Each system will be represented by the tech tree options. However instead of dividing between military potential and revenue potential, its more a matter of choosing which influence you want in a particular province. Do you wish for a Military influence or a Central Bureacratic influence. Its not a matter of getting better military units from one option, but a matter of what you WANT from that tech tree option.

Here's the rundown of how it works and what can be done. Lets call the tech tree option for those who favour Military influence the "Strategos" option and those that favour the Central Bureacracy influence the "CB" option.

The Strategos option widens a province's military potential; develops logistical capability; shapes religious character; influences economic structure predominantly agricultural and its access to military technology.

IN a nutshell:
Allows greater variety and choice of military units from elite to levies but limited choices for other types of units. Suited to strategic and economically weak provinces. This favours the aristocratic military families' prestige and power. Buildings to tend to lower order, loyalty and hence, keep an eye on as Emperor.

Types of units trainable/recruitable:
Provincial Tagmata
Thematic Soldiers
Provincial Monks
Provincial Ascetics

Types of buildings:
Estates - Military Aristocracy farming estates, rich farming holdings
Lord's Castle - Home of aristocratic military families, access to elite tagmatic soldiers
Military Office - holds registers of thematic soldiers, needed for thematic recruitment
Stables/Horse Farms
Barracks
Archery
Engineers - Artillery
Engineering - allows access to improved fortifications, emphasis on castles and forts
Military warehouse - used for storing army's supplies, reduces civilian happiness
Blacksmith/Foundary/Arms factory - where soldiers buy weapons and improved weapons, armour, etc, etc...also needed for armoured horses
Endowed Monasteries
Votive Shrines
Town Markets - small markets

The CB option deepens a province's bureacratic structure with emphasis on revenue extraction but in the process allows for wider options for public amenities and services; influences economic structure predominantly cash and trade based; ability to construct monuments and other structures that reflect imperial power and other structures which allow a deeply bureacratic character to take place.

In a nutshell:
Limited choice of military units but they are elite and professional soldiery. Good structure for revenue extraction and allows develop of a city's urban character through amenities, services, monuments and other civilian structures. This favours the Emperor's power and prestige. Tned to improve civic pride, improve wealth, sophistication and knowledge.

Types of units:
Imperial Tagmata
Foreign Mercenaries
Naval forces
Spies
Court Spies
Patriarchs
Archbishops
Bishops
Priests
Monks
Ascetics
Diplomats
Assasins
Vigiles - police forces, not the Tagmatic unit.

Types of buildings/structures:
University
Imperial Churches - various level of churches, determined by number of domes
Relic Shrines
Imperial Monasteries
Engineers - Artillery
Engineers - Fortification, emphasis on stronger, taller walls rather than castles
Military Naval facilities
Trade Merchant facilities
Forums - large markets, can be improved to larger market complexes
Monuments - Pillars, statues, religious devotional pieces like the Chalke
Baths/Hygience facilities
Senate House - only for Constantinople, improves order
Silk Factory - under strict government supervision, in specified areas only like Athens, Corinth, Thessalonica, Antioch and Constantinople and in other historical areas where possible.
Treasury - improves taxation ability
Intelligience Office - training for spies and intelligience gathering
Domestic Office - internal security of empire and its cities\
Taxation facilities - collects taxes on trade, goods in kind, etc, etc
Muslim Quarter - Small section for Muslim traders/merchants, includes a mosque but does not attract converts, reduces happiness, improves trade revenue
Latin Quarter - Medium to Large section for Latin traders/merchants/citizens, includes Latin churches, does not attract converts, reduces happiness, improves trade, does not attract converts, improvces trade and revenue, reduces happiness
Hippodrome
Jewish Quarter - Small quarter for Jewish traders/merchants/citizens

Note: Everything here are working ideas and not finalised. So for all researchers keep in mind ideas for gameplay, don't post all ideas on it here!! Maybe some ideas for discussions, but not a lot!! This is just an example.

[beauchamp]

hmm, interesting. I think that would work well for Al-Maghrib as well, seeing that in Cordova their were all sorts of quarters devoted to Christians and Jews and they had separate banks and places of worship.

[Cadmus]

Well, I was thinking exactly the same thing at work today, but with the Rus in mind.
Your bureaucratic institution would be my Veche, the more military associated rule would be the Prince, but more focused on being Tsar, a despot, the later form of absolute ruler.
My problem is, however, if you allow for every province to choose between one of these formulae, or that one of them is then a necessity for all provinces....

[kataphraktoi]

My problem is, however, if you allow for every province to choose between one of these formulae, or that one of them is then a necessity for all provinces....

Actually, the Byzantine system I devised is supposed to used as a combination, its not logical to choose one system for the whole empire, thats why I devised it as such that a player would actually utilise both systems depending on which province, and as I said before, this system is for the Byzantines which means you guys will have to come up wth tech trees unique to your own factions utilising the two-option system. It was great fun thinking it over.

Example:
With Constantinople in 1066, the CB structure is definitely in place there, but for Anatolian provinces, its more suited to the Strategos structure. THis reflects the tension between the military families and the bureacratic party in the capital. So the empire is a combination of both systems.

Hmmm, for the Rus, I think perhaps we do the following:

Using a generic lets call one structure the "Grand Prince" structure and the "Principality" structure.

GP structure emphasises the centrality and unity of Rus rule, by which many things would be standardised, while a "P" structure allows a player to localise many units and buildings.

Just a suggestion, but I'll leave it to you Cadmus to amaze us with ur ideas!!

Does anyone use IRC?

[Publius]

Signature


Also made a twc version (only difference being background color so it blends in). I posted that one, for obvious reasons, at twc

[Randarkmaan]

Hmmm... Would it be possible for me to do something like this but instead of having 2 systems (or whatever) the Fatimids would slowly along with their buildings transform their army into a more 'Turkish' style army (ie. Saladin's/the Ayyubids' army) instead of suddenly just replacing all the Fatimid units with Ayyubid units. If this is possible (building certain buildings in the tech tree replaces all units of a kind with another unit) then I think it could work well as the Fatimid military system was not just replaced over night it was disbanded over a number of years in preference of the more 'Turkish' Ayyubid army. The same could be done with the Ayyubids being taken over by the Mamluks.
I could also make use of the two system thing for the Fatimids though because from the mid to the late 11th century the level of skill demanded by their soldiers rised steadily, this led to the disbanding of most militas and made the Fatimids uncapable of recruiting a large force and had to rely on small well trained forces instead. You could have it so that in order to train the expensive elite units in a province you would no longer be able to train less effective but much less expensive troops in a province.

[Randarkmaan]

- A screenshot of one of the Almohad? castles overlooking a plain with tents of the christians (some sort of 'plain'watch...), this on the Iberian Peninsula.

Well, it's not an Almohad castle but one 'passive' loading screen you could have could be the Moorish castle at Guadalest, I was there yesterday, it was counted as impregnable until it was taken by some Spanish guy with a large army.