Europa Barbarorum Bibliography

[oudysseos]

I have been meaning to do this for while: a bibliography of the Classical Sources germane to EB.

I think it is important to remind people that some (many) of these works are not themselves primary sources, even though they are old. Livy's history of the early republic is a secondary work of scholarship in the same way that Tom Holland's Rubicon is. "Primary" vs. "Secondary" is not better vs. worse, but merely a distinction of kind.


Herodotus, The Histories
Xenophon, Anabasis, Hellenica, Cyropaedia, Constitution of Sparta, Ways and Means, The Cavalry General, On Horsemanship
Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
Polybius, The Histories (The Rise of the Roman Empire)
Plutarch, The Parallel Lives, The Moralia
Aeschines, Against Ctesiphon
Demosthenes, Philippics, Orations
Arrian, The Campaigns of Alexander
G. Julius Caesar, Gallic War, Civil War
Livy, Ad Urbe Condita
Cicero, Too Many to List;try the Verrine Orations and the Caesarian Speeches to start
Suetonius, Lives of the Twelve Caesars
Tacitus, The Histories, The Annals of Imperial Rome, Germania, Agricola
Sallust, The Catiline Conspiracy, The Jugurthine War
Pliny
Seneca



I know I'm probably missing a few but I'm tired and in a hurry. If anyone wants to suggest some additions I'll add them in. Long live the People's Front of Judea.

[oudysseos]

First Post Updated.


I sat in Hodges and Figges (famous Dublin bookstore) for a couple of hours (really comfy chairs) and read 2/3 of a book that I highly recommend. The City of Sharp Nosed Fish, Greeks Lives in Roman Egypt, by Peter Parsons, is the story of the late 19th century expedition of Grenfell and Hunt to the ruins of Oxyrhynchos, outside of Cairo, where they found a massive horde of papyri detailing the everyday lives of Greek colonist in Egypt from Alexander up to Roman times. Fascinating.

[Geoffrey S]

There is relatively little I have found Geof. I have just got some articles or chapters in books really. Greek Colonists and Native Populations has some stuff, as does Ancient Greeks: West and East.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for those. Also, the recommendation of Thundering Zeus is great. I just read it on holiday and it's a fascinating book illuminating not only the history of Greek Baktria but also the methods used to come to those conclusions.

It's probably a question for another topic, but anyway: has the EB team ever considered making a minting building, possibly using the original RTW races building to set the production amount? It seems that minting coins was an essential propoganda tool and certainly an economic boon, but is as yet unrepresented in EB to my knowledge.

[abou]

We might for EB2, but we're short on complexes for EB1.

PS. I thought Thundering Zeus was a great book too. If only it wasn't so expensive for how thin it is. The only books more expensive are Seleukid ones. Seriously guys, thank your libraries for existing.

[Philip of Massalia]

I'm curious to know what sources were used to design the skin of the Massaliotes Hoplitai.

Well, my name is the reason

[Centurion Varricus]

Couldnt see it mentioned before so I would like to recomend

The Western Way of War
by Victor Daivs Hanson

The book is dedicated to the soldier fighting in the phalanx in the hellenistic period. Sections on why they fought, their armour and weapons, morale & leadership, the charge, the close combat fighting, wounds and treatment.

[Geoffrey S]

Just keep an eye out for when he mixes in his political opinions...

[abou]

For those curious, a great book on Roman art and architecture is Roman Art by Ramage and Ramage. Learning the artwork is quite important to understanding politics and Roman thinking. Plus, it is extensively illustrated. I highly suggest it.

[Philip of Massalia]

I'm curious to know what sources were used to design the skin of the Massaliotes Hoplitai.

Well, my name is the reason

Well, I'd really love to know the answer, this skin is nice but I can't trace its sources.

[Spvrrina Vestricivs]

Warhorse: Cavalry In Ancient Warfare by Philip Sidnell. Concentrates mainly on Roman and Greek cavalry and highlights why the stirrup wasn't all that big a deal for cavalry.

[oudysseos]

First post updated with recent suggestions. Thanks for the continuing interest!

[oudysseos]

First post updated. Thanks to Sarkiss for Armenian sources.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Does anyone rate Appians the Iberian wars? I quite liked it, but I have no real experience with these 'old' primary/secondary source books, it's only the 3rd I've read, Caesars Gallic wars and Xenophons 10,000 being the others.

It's EB's fault that I've become somewhat interested in the 'classics'.
I do struggle though if their abit heavy/on the dry side. Barchovas(spelling?) work on the Seleucids I found a tad hard going. Now there's a book that one is glad that my local library is willing to source these things for me(costs £1).

I am mainly interested in first hand accounts of combat, and tactics as a secondary interest. Anyone here willinging to make any interest nourishing segestions?

[Tarkus]

Thanks so much, oudysseos, for putting together this bibliography -- I'm a bit new to this period of history and this is a true goldmine of opportunity for me!

I assume most people here are burned out on Roman history, but I'm still a bit surprised at the relatively short list of books listed here on the subject. Additionally, it seems like most of the books focus on the later stages of the Empire. At this point I'm interested in reading about the early phases of the Empire, specifically the late Camillan - early Polybian transition, the Samnite wars, and the early conflicts with Phyrros and Carthage. Does anybody have any suggestions of some good reading on this subject?

Thanks again!

[oudysseos]

36 Books on the list mainly concerned with Rome: seems like a good few to start with. Also bear in mind that many books not directly about Rome will nonetheless have a great deal to do with Roman history: anything about Carthage, for example. And there are lots and lots of popular histories about Rome on the shelves of any bookstore, so I think we're spoiled for choice there. Personally I'd like to see some more about Pontus and Mithradates, or something really detailed about the Achaean and Aitolian Leagues- they usually only turn up as background in another history.

For the period you mentioned Polybius is a great place to start. Freeman's Egypt, Greece and Rome is also very good on the earlier period, if a bit general.

[Tarkus]

I was specifically referring to the 20 books listed directly under the Rome heading in the list. But of course you're right in pointing out such other works as Polybius and the other classical sources...didn't mean to exclude them from the list...shows my noob ignorance...

Today I picked up a general but good-looking reference titled Rome and Her Enemies: An Empire Created and Destroyed By War by Jane Penrose (Ed.). It's an Osprey title so it's got alot of the artwork on uniforms, etc. we've come to know and love. I'll give it a preliminary recommendation!

On to Polybius! Thanks for the advice.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

That book you want on the Aitolian League is available. Try getting "The Politics of Plunder" - it's pretty new and very detailed, and cheap too.

[Sarkiss]

I was specifically referring to the 20 books listed directly under the Rome heading in the list. But of course you're right in pointing out such other works as Polybius and the other classical sources...didn't mean to exclude them from the list...shows my noob ignorance...

Today I picked up a general but good-looking reference titled Rome and Her Enemies: An Empire Created and Destroyed By War by Jane Penrose (Ed.). It's an Osprey title so it's got alot of the artwork on uniforms, etc. we've come to know and love. I'll give it a preliminary recommendation!

i was seduced by Osprey's colourful pics too but been dissapointed after buying it. too shallow, more for a general public and doesnt cover as much as it could.

here is another addition to "Works on Military Theory and Armies" section:
Alexander the Great and the logistics of the Macedonian Army by Donald W. Engels.
just started reading it. the title says it all.

[Strategy]

May I just mention that some time ago (quite a long time actually... what can I say, I've been busy...), I created a Hellenistic and Roman Bibliography which is a intended as a web database for of books and articles on Hellenistic and Roman history.

It currently contains some 60 books and articles.

It is a Wiki, which means anyone who will take the trouble to register may add and edit to their hearts content. I would be pleased if people would take the time to do so, e.g., with the books they have listed here (if it gets used more, I'd probably also update the software for WikIndx, which is actually quite a nifty little system, despite its occasionally cumbersome interface).

Good reading.

[HamilcarBarca]

This thread is a disgrace!

I just spent US$ 300 on Amazon buying some of the titles mentioned here that I was not aware of!

H.

[oudysseos]

Oh Hamilcar, if only you knew how mad my wife gets when I buy another book... little does she suspect that I still plan to buy the entire Cambridge Classical History (20 volumes or so) one day. My kids don't like school anyways. Who needs money for college?

Believe me I sympathize. The only advice that I can give you is to haunt used bookstores. There are some good ones where I live (Dublin). And charity shops like Oxfam can be a surprisingly good source for serious books (if you keep checking). Also, libraries are a good thing, and there are used books available for sale online. Try www.abebooks.com, and of course ebay.
If the EB community was physically closer together, I would suggest starting a book exchange. Maybe we could start up an EB Facebook group or something? Too bad new books aren't available for online reading.

First post updated.


P.S. @ Teleklos- I miss 'The diet coke of Evil'.

P.P.S. A note on Osprey books. I include them because I kinda like them- sometimes looking at a well-done 'artist's conception' helps me to understand something in a way that words or pictures or archeological finds does not. Also I like to read in the bathtub. And my kids like them.
The Osprey books are probably not at the highest level of academic rigour, but I do think that they have some value, so, like everything, read them and make up your own mind.

[Sarkiss]

Oh Hamilcar, if only you knew how mad my wife gets when I buy another book... little does she suspect that I still plan to buy the entire Cambridge Classical History (20 volumes or so) one day.

luckily i dont have that problem JUST YET
poped into Foyles yesterday and after torturing my wife browsing books for half an hour i was ready to leave, but she said we aint leaving until i buy something so here it is Philip of Macedon by Professor Nicholas Hammond. was actually looking for something on Mithridates and Pontus...
EDIT: oh, and if you havent guessed already, the books is about Philip II.

[edyzmedieval]

Anyone know how good is Graham Shipley's Greek World after Alexander? 600 pages, seems a good book.

[Lusitani]

Great thread....probably the best...thanks for the info.

[Power2the1]

I would recommend The Celts A History by Peter Berresford Ellis.

Brief synopsis: Contains "niche" information that the majority of Celtic books, that are easy to get your hands on, have not published. Presentation is laid out well, and might be a bit pro Celtic in a few areas, but, theres always a reason why, and the book is balanced on each topic. Once finished, you will not consider the Celts a member of the "barbarian factions" again, and, you'll have a stronger view that the Romans were not as advanced as common culture might have mislead you to believe. Recommended for easy, light readers and heavy readers looking for more.

[Quintus Aurelius]

Pardon me, if this has asked before..

Some Quotes in the game come from a source called "Cycle of Telam".

I am very interested in history of the acient world, but i´ve never heard about it.

Can someone please tell me, is this a book? Where can i read more about it?

Edit:
Never mind, i got it

[matte89]

I think i need to get my hands on some of these books, so far i only read fictional books about ceasar and that sort of thing. I got a huge collection of WW2 history, perhaps its time to add the ancient warfare

[Beefy187]

Sorry if it doesnt fit here

Im trying find a primary source on Pre Phillip and during Phillips rule Macedonia (Phillip II). However I cant find any source besides Demosthenes and his a bit biased..

Im especially intrested about the primary sources on Macedonian military before Philip and Greek world during Philips rule.

Could anybody help me out?

[Sarkiss]

interested in modern accounts?
http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Olympus.../dp/0691055491

[Intranetusa]

"Black Athena" ...sigh, a sad piece of Afrocentric distortion that caters to afrocentrists and black supremacists.

He should've stuck to his original field of study - East Asia...but then again, he might've published something called "Black Shang"... :(

IMO, the racist IPOAA sucks as much as the KKK, Nation of Islam, and neo nazis.