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Thread: England

  1. #181
    Member Member Iavorios's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Nice, but what about the Pope? Seriosly you will have to take verry good care of him if you want to go anywhare. I supoase that the only way to conguer all of western Europe before turn 60 is to make everybody enemys of the holly father and crusade them to oblivion. Been there, done that. I no longer find it funni, or chalenging. I like to conguer without crusades, it is way more fun. But seriosly if like to blitz that much why don't you join the blitzmaster chalenge. If you dare.

  2. #182
    Member Member DS_Legionary's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I've finally decided to start up and finish a campaign as England. I started off with your basic first moves. I sent my starting garrison and King in London plus a couple units from Nottingham to go and lay seige to Caernavon, sent my Prince and his army to take York and finally sent my last family member in Caen to go take Rennes. All fell with relatively little trouble by the time turn 5 rolled around.

    By that time Scotland managed to nab Dublin so I decided it was time to eliminate the Scots before they became a thorn on my side. I sent my King from Caernavon by boat to Dublin and my Prince from York laid seige to Edinburgh. The remnants of the Scottish army attempted to lift the seige on Edinburgh but were defeated in a triumphant victory for Prince Rufus. The last Scottish stronghold in Dublin fell two turns later. The scots were now a matter of history and I had all but secured my new island stronghold. However by taking Dublin I had become excommunicated by the Pope. Oh well he shall be dead soon enough and I can use this to at least cripple the French before I go into turtle mode.

    Henry has come of age and looks to be a very promising commander, so I decide to let him handle Inverness with a token force and send Prince Rufus down to the mainland to assist Robert in the destruction of the French. My king is getting old so I assign him to build watchtowers in the wild areas of my newly acquired lands. I have also teched up to longbows/billmen in Caen (turned Nottingham into a city after the Scots were defeated). I have prepared two seperate armies for the conquering of France.

    These armies consist of 3 units of levy spears, 3 units of Hobilars, 3 units of Longbows and a general. My basic battle strategy is to use my Hobilars to harrass any French archers on the field, then let my Longbows have a field day with any French infantry on the field. The levy spears are there just a meat sheild for my Longbows and I use my Hobilars/General to swing around and decimate the enemy infantry from behind. My cavalry mops up and catches and routing enemies. I always execute any prisoners (get some dread for my Royal family).

    Rufus and Robert are put at the head of these armies. Rufus heads south to Bourdaux via boat and Robert sits outside Angers waiting anxiously for word of Rufus' arrival outside Bourdaux. Rufus arrives and lays seige to Bourdaux and Robert also lay seige to Angers. Bourdaux falls with almost no resistance, Angers sallies but is trumped with minimal loses. Rufus moves on to Toulouse and slaughters Frances prince and one other family member. Robert Moves on to Paris and lays seige The new Frnech prince attempts to lift the siege but gets himself killed and the French king captured (King was in Paris). I execute the King and France is no more.

    It's turn 21 and I have been excommunicated and also managed to eliminate the French and Scots. Henry has proven himself in northern England is now on his way to the mainland to command a proper army of his own. Rufus is now a 10 star general and Robert is 5 stars. My King is amazingly still alive, but who knows for how long. There are many rebels in what used to be France, but I will take them at my leisure. I have neglected all infrastucture in my cities and will turtle for a bit while I build up my cities. All settlements in England have been converted to towns, but I will keep Caen, Toulouse, Bourdaux and Angers all as castles for now.

    There are only to forseeable things which may cripple me. I'm still excommunicated so there will undoubtedly be some people gunning for me soon (HRE, Spain, Milan) and they will have to be dealt with. Also, I guess since my royal family has been busy from the outset and hardly in a town they all have not gotten married yet. Henry is still young so I'm not worried about dying out, but my other two generals are approaching 40 and they have developed some traits I hope to pass on to offspring. Guess since I'm turtling now would be a good time to plop them in a city and hope they pop out a kid or two before they go sterile.

  3. #183
    Member Member gNostic Heretic's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Hi. I'm at the early 14th C. now, playing England on VH/VH and hold British Isles, Scandnavia (inc. Denmark), Northern France (inc. Paris and Rheims) and the (nicely built up by the other factions') citadels of Bordeaux, Bern, Metz, Stettin, Hamburg and Nicosia. I'm at war soley with the Mongols, allied with Milan and Poland, have marriage links with France, Denmark, Poland, Russia and Hungary and have just had my fourth English pope elected in a row and have never been excommunicated. The only factions totally destroyed are the Scots and Portugese and I did everything I could to prevent that happening; I like playing against different styles of opponents (that's why I'm at war with the Mongols - to maintain the balance of power).

    I play a combined form of turtling and blitzkrieg, using the turtle times to set up the right situation for successful blitzing that leaves me looking (and smelling) like the Good Guy. Duplicitousness seems to have been the key to English success historically, a means to punch well above one's weight.

    Suggestions:

    1. Ignore Caernarvon. The combination of walls, longbows and (to a lesser extent) mailed knights is one that, at best, will leave your island forces bogged down in a seige for some years, unable to respond to other situations that may develop, and at worst, leave your one proper army annihilated, along with your faction heir, Rufus. Take York on your first go and bring two cogs round Cornwall, to pick up your victorious York army off the coast of Lancashire to take Dublin! No walls and immediate access to those superb early war-winning flankers - Irish Kerns and Galloglaich.

    2. Ignore Antwerp. This city is a poisoned chalice. In all my games so far the Scots make a beeline with their Big Stack for Antwerp. They're welcome to it. Everyone in Northern Europe wants Antwerp and will attempt to 'liberate' it for themselves turn, after turn, after turn. This ties up the Scots in a protracted war with the HRE and Danes, possibly also the French. Excommunications all round for them, trebles all round for you! Besides, Antwerp is just slightly more than a single turn's journey from Rouen (also known in the game as Caen) where most of your forces will be stationed for most of the turtling period and therefore just tantalisingly outside of the area you can dominate with a single army.

    3. Bruges and Rennes are ideal additions to the glory of your throne, being within one turn distance of Rouen and trading well with London and York.

    4. Get Rufus married to the French princess and get your own princess over to Denmark, married to their faction heir. You have to be quick with Denmark but a successful early alliance with Denmark will further isolate the Scots, threaten the HRE and encourage friendly relations with Poland. You can also expect some few thousand florins on tribute, maps and trade rights for these marriages. Denmark will now usually start a war within a few turns with the HRE and Scotland. An alliance with Milan is a Very Good Thing too as it will make the French think twice about kicking you off the continent.

    5. Tech for Bows in Nottingham, Swords in Rouen, Trade in London, York, Rennes, Bruges and Dublin but only after building the first two levels of churches everywhere and spawning priests. This pleases the Holy Father no end and the sooner you can get to 100% Catholic the less likely you'll suffer at the hands of the Really Very Annoying Inquisition.

    6. Now its time to take Caernarvon, protracted seige using Henry while Rufus collects together all those Peasant Archers and Priests and goes to cleanse his soul of sin using the most popular method historically, that is, with blood. To Jerusalem with you and the devil take the hindmost! I find that straight down eastern France, with spies checking for blocking units, to Marseille, picking up 4-6 of those fine Crusader Sergeants and a couple of units of Crusader Knights, buy all the boats you can, then off to Corsica, buy more boats, then Rome, more boats and a Great Cross, and down to Sicily, more boats should leave you with about 6 galleys and 2 cogs. Not a huge fleet but then, almost no-one has a huge fleet at this time. Leave enough room in your crusade for 2 Turkopoles, 2 Dismounted Knights and as many fanatics as you can get.

    7. Build up nice little army of Nottingham trained Longbows (say 6-8), 2 Galloglaich and 3 Kerns stationed in Rouen. Save money by combining a strong fleet with Merchant Cavalry Militia stationed in London and stationing all your spears in your cities as free garrison units. This really is the key to salvaging your wretched early economy. Resist the temptation to train Mailed Knights.

    I fought and a battle using 6 units of MCM against 6 units of Flemish Pikemen, no general on either side and won without any really losses. Breaking up their line by repeated pretend charges until one or two units start to plod slowly after you, then swarming each unit with 4 units of MCM does the trick. An attack of 6 is no worse than your own mighty spear militia, while 14 defence is miles better. Combine that with the mobilty of just being on horseback at all and that the units are pretty much FREE and you've got a fine fire-and-forget cavalry unit. I fired them at pike and lost 32 men total. On VH. That's a lesson I won't forget. Probably won't ever use them against real knights though.

    3 units of Mailed Knights will gobble up nearly a grand a turn for doing exactly the same hanging around on street corners looking like a tough guy that Militia Cavalry will do for nothing. That's the same 900 florins that you could be spending on those longbows who really will do a good job of deterence.

    8. While you are on crusade it is vital to build up your economy as much as possible. While on crusade you'll have that free army revenue bonus but the good times won't last and I've found myself limping home from the Holy Land, broke, bankrupt and with a huge fleet full of amazing but totally useless (at sea) Crusader Knights, Sergeants, Dismounteds and Turkopoles too many times, unable to buld anything at home. So, trade links with everyone. No offensive wars. If someone parks an army on your land, let them (except for rebels), if they seige a settlement, annihalate them, then sue for peace, seeking regular tribute and trade links. I prefer regular tribute to big cash settlements. It helps me to not spend big wads of cash all at once, on unnessesary stuff and it also gives you a clue how long before they'll be back.

    9. Take Jerusalem. If there's a big Egyptian army nearby, crush it first. Sack Jerusalem and bask in the Pope's glory. Sell everything. Build a chapel, spawn a priest and then leave town immediately never to retrun. Move on to Tripoli. Repeat. You're a Grand Crusader and Christendom will turn a big blind eye to your youthful and over-exuberant shenanigans. Onwards to Ghaza. Repeat. Use the fanatics for all wall-based action. They want the Kingdom of God NOW? Their wish should be granted! If you've got enough time before a proper Egyptian army and navy turn up do the same to Damascus and Aleppo. Avoid getting entangled with the Turks. I behaved like a proper bad boy and ended up being known as Rufus the Honourable with a chivalry of 8.

    10. By now the Egyptians will be very very upset and will be chasing you up and down the coast. Buy all the mercenary ships you can and go home, satisified at a bad job well done. I must have looted about 100,000 florins doing this, which pretty much enabled me to tech up to Yeomen and Armoureds, with Abbeys, City Halls and all that lovely trade stuff. Needless to say, all those priests, about 10 became cardinals, helped Bruge eventually become Theology Guild headquarters and led to the total domination of the Papacy thereafter

    12. Take Cyprus or Rhodes on the way home. I took Cyprus; the Egyptians had invaded and taken it from the Byzantines and I heard the wine and climate are nice.

    13. Nevertheless the Byzantines just ATTACKED me on the way home; for no real reason. I sought shelter on Crete and then, lo! the Scots had inneffectually attempted to take Brugesone time too many and been excommunicated at just the right moment to launch a second crusade.

    14. Declared Rufus and the old crusade army for the new crusade against Edinburgh and skimmed past all enemy fleets like a fox in the night, zipping back to Corsica in record time and landing at Marseille just in time for the Pope to die and the Scots to be reconciled. I had taken Inverness in the meantime. Darn it! But at least this got me back home super quick.

    15. Then the French to declared war on me, turning up in Bruges/Rouen with three full stacks and also sunk my fleet with the Great Cross on it (couldn't get it on-shore in time). Oh I was very very cross now. I had had plans to install that cross in the new Westminister Abbey as a Permanent Sign of Heaven's Favour to the Eternal Glory of my Throne, etc, etc. The French would pay. And with a 37 year old Englishman on the Papal Throne and an angry Grand Crusader as the new king, eager to avenge the loss of this Most Holy Relic which we had carried, Blessed by the Bishop of Rome himself, all the way to the Holy Land to liberate Jerusalem from the unbeliever, only to be lost forever in the Watery Deep thanks to the Vile and Treacherous French who Never Even Went On Crusade... ... You get the picture.

    16. Took and sacked Marseille. My chivalry went up to ten. Trained two units of catapults and a diplomat and then gifted the city to Milan. Two of the three full stacks headed south. I demolished the other with purely missile fire. Rufus' Army of Divine Retribution headed full-speed for a full stack heading for Marseille, demolishing it and then the next and ha, ha, no big stacks left in France. So it was a logisiticly satisfying sweep to Toulouse, Bordeaux, Angers, Paris, Rheims, Metz and finally Dijon where Rufus personally killed the Demon King himself before offering terms to the new King of France (Bern only) which returned all of those territories in return for 4000 florins a turn, for twenty turns and trade rights. Needless to say I demilitarised all those settlements.

    17. This left me, home, dry, with a massive load of ill-gotten gold, tribute, a fine army of battle-hardened crusader sergeants and knights and with the French impoverished and at least a generation behind me in military technology. A glass of good wine was called for.

  4. #184
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Great story
    Tosa Inu

  5. #185
    Member Member gNostic Heretic's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Thanks! I'll write an AAR .... one day. In the meantime, how did you do it - this awesome sounding Ten Thousand Horseman battle?

  6. #186
    Member Member gNostic Heretic's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    My approach as England to the problem that is the Mongols has been an army consisting of 16 units of Retinue Longbowmen, formed in to a very very early version of an English square with a general, two turkopoles and the great cross in the centre. I find that 3 longbow to a side, with a fourth augmenting the corner, set stakes and then withdraw the cornermen in to a second inner square does the trick against these wily nomad types.

    Whether I'm on attack or defence I'll always set stakes. The Mongols will almost never attack outright, until I gently move the army outside of the stakes. Then it's a case of "And they're off..." and the hardest part of the battle is getting my square back inside the stakes very very slowly while the wild hordsemen gallop full tilt towards me.

    Taking the bows off fire at will until the Mongols are to just beyond point blank range is always a bit of a laugh too.

    I can usually count on losing 1/6th of my force for 5/6ths of theirs, which I find ... acceptable. With the great cross present I've never seen my bows anything less than eager. The Turkopoles are there to take out artillery and chase routers.

    Interestingly, I've gotten better results from setting the square on the low ground. This may be because, given the amazing reach of retinues, almost all shots are straight.

  7. #187
    Askthepizzaguy Fan! Member Emperor of Graal's Avatar
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    Cool Re: England

    For beginners and people on Easy/Easy
    starting guide for FIRST TURN (Because I hate Easy)
    By now you should know you Start with London,Caen and Nottingham
    Get Rufus to stay where he is on the first go (because the council give you a mission to take it on
    the next couple of goes,and you get money or units.)!!
    Now you build roads in Nottingham and Caen to get trade
    That's always good.
    The 2 fleets with cogs need to combine together (ALWAYS TO THE ONE CLOSEST TO NORFOLK) or you kinda So be careful,move Aston and Cecile your bishop and princess
    onto the fleet and mover fleet to disembark them next to Bruges
    Near Rennes you should have a Captain get him to lay siege to Rennes http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images...s/misc/hmg.gif

    Get Robert in Caen to join the captainhttp://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/brakelamp.gif

    End your go and you have a good start

  8. #188
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Quote Originally Posted by gNostic Heretic View Post
    Thanks! I'll write an AAR .... one day. In the meantime, how did you do it - this awesome sounding Ten Thousand Horseman battle?
    The Mongols always stick together when on the march. I Simply set up my stacks (I actually had four but the last one was too far away) so that three of my stacks were fighting against three of them. There was a lot of lag and I had only one goal and that was to kill the Mongol generals. I actually never expected to win that easy. It was a lot of fun.
    Tosa Inu

  9. #189
    Member Member Rocksaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Hello, first post on these forums. Have played a few of the total war series over the years but never really played 'seriously'. Have dabbled in the campaign mode but mainly just messed about with all the different units in custom battles.

    Reinstalled Medieval II yesterday and am trying to have a proper go at the English Campaign... Have had a little read of various tips but am mainly winging it and hoping for the best.. Will give you a run down of what I'm doing and hopefully some of you can tell me if I'm doing ok or have gone horribly wrong and perhaps offer advice to set me on the path to glory.

    First of all I should say my campaign is set up as follows...English Campaign. Medium/Medium difficulty... perhaps should've tried easy first but I feel like if i'm not playing any game on at least normal/medium or equivalent then am not playing the game as intended thus spoiling it for me. Other campaign options are set as... Long Campaign rules, Tell Me everything for the help option, Manage All Cities, Show AI turns and No Battle Time limit (this was unchecked but I can't imagine an hour of battle passing or whatever and the generals saying ok full time, we enjoyed killing you today, time to go home.. doesn't really sit well does it?) Oh and am patched up to v1.3 if that makes any difference. /shrug

    I'm onto turn 5 at the moment and this is how I've gone about the business of world domination...

    I have trade rights with france and scotland, am allied with france and just married princess cecilia to the french faction heir pushing our relations up to very good.

    Prince Rufus has successfully besieged and taken York without venturing to the battle map, the rebels gave up without issue after 2 turns. Have set York to low taxes to encourage population growth and to aid this have built land clearance, income from here is 665. Yorks army is Prince Rufus, x2 Peasant Archers, x2 Spear Militia, x1 Mercenary Crossbowmen and x2 Welsh Spearmen (Mercenaries.) The scots have disembarked a sizeable military force just off the coast near York, sabre rattling I guess.


    Down in Nottingham I have constructed Land Clearance, Dirt Roads and am currently building a bowyer and training up a unit of Hobilars to add to the tiny miltary presence there. Only have x1 Peasant Archers, x2 Spear Militia and x1 Hobilars there right now. Nottingham currently has an income of 824.


    Moving further down to the capital London, I've built a market and am midway constructing Mines to add to the 973 income. Guarding the capital is a force comprising of King William, x1 Peasants, x1 Town Militia and x2 Spear Militia.


    Across the channel in Normandy, Caen has x2 Spear Militia and x1 Peasants defending it... not the ideal defensive force. Caen has an income of 735 and have so far built Land Clearance and Roads. A small 2 unit french army is hovering outside Caen, we're allied so I'm not too threatened... I have the option

    Finally, the army that should be back protecting our castle at Caen is over to the west, manning a siege of Rennes. Robert is in command here, his troops are... x1 Hobilars, x2 Peasant Archers, x3 Spear Militia, x1 Levy Spearman and x1 Peasants.

    My empires coffers are fairly low, 1449 gold with a projected 2215 gold next turn.

    ...and thats the lay of the land as of turn 5 or the summer of 1088.


    So what do you think? Things going ok? Or am I leaving places such as Caen far too vulnerable? Any advice, suggestions, comments, anything welcome... Really trying to get a decent grasp of campaign gameplay this time round... can tell theres a good game in here if I can just get used to playing more strategically. Thanks for reading, I know I went on a bit.

  10. #190
    Member Member gNostic Heretic's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Welcome to the Org, Rocksaw! Good steady start there. No, you didn't go on too much. May I suggest Dublin for your Yorkist army. Bring your fleet round to the north of Wales (where Liverpool would be now) and board the York army. Meanwhile bring your troops up from Nottingham to secure York. Dublin has no walls, however it does have Galloglaich and Kerns aplenty. The key to this day's battle will be your archers.

    If you can bring your whole army round to the other side of the town where there is an entrance flanked on the left by a small hill and farmstead and set your archers up on that to shoot through the gaps in the buildings and put your spear across the entrance backed up by your cavalry you'll be able to pull one unit out of the town at a time.

    If you're feeling adventurous repeatedly charge your general into the kerns from the original entrance point for extra valour points and bravery traits while bringing your army round the town.

    Dublin's a fine money-spinner and the local mercenaries are my favourites. If you put a unit each of kerns and galloglaich on your flanks and use them in combination like flanking legionaries you'll soon see the benefit: kerns sling javelins into the back of the main enemy line while it is engaged with your spear wall, then in come the galloglaich! Prefer this combination to cavalry. Robin Hoods (Sherwood Foresters) and DEK's make an execellent high period replacement for this flanking style.

    Avoid the temptation to take Antwerp. There is no easier way to make enemies of all your immediate neighbours than to take this town.

    One of the great things about England is that it is an island. Dur, obviously! One of the annoying things about merchants is that they cost 550 florins to recruit, you send 'em off to get some of that fine wine or iron on the continent and next turn or so they get aquired by enemy merchants. Not much return for your investment. The tin mines of Cornwall, the silver mines of Ireland and Northumbria and the wool of Mercia are great training locales for your merchants, giving them the experience points necessary to survive the cut and thrust of European business.

    Hope this was of some good use. Here's strength to your sword-arm!

  11. #191
    Member Member Rocksaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Yes, it will be very helpful! I've since restarted, and now plan on restarting again. Each time I'm learning a little more about what and what not to do. I like the fact you've given me some military tactics and units to recruit, thanks.

    My main issue is mustering effective armies, they somehow end up being ragtag useless forces of basic militia and freebie knights. Really struggle with that and what buildings to add to my settlements and castles. I read about building economic buildings first, but even still I always seem to have low funds to build up armies.

    Have been looking for a step by step hand holding guide but can't seem to find one.. oh well, hopefully third time lucky. Shall run a pretty much carbon copy of what I was doing up to my post above and employ the tactics you gave and see how I get on.

  12. #192
    Warrior on the edge of time Member kitbogha's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Welcome Rocksaw,
    I think you're doing ok the way you're going. The key seems to be periods of expansion tempered by periods of consolidation-the trick is knowing when to do which one!
    Unit composition choices are always personal so you need to find out what works best for you (you could try out a few custom battles to do this).
    I find that a forward line of archers/skirmishers backed by spearmen/heavy infantry and flanked by heavy cavalry and backed up by light cavalry (they can be sent in to round up routing units) works best for me. The english longbowmen unit is one of the best in the game and has the great advantage of being able to plant a line of stakes in front of them to deter enemy cavalry charges. I remember dispatching almost a whole army of Mongols by this method once. Tech up the archery buildings in Nottingham to get them. A sneaky trick is to set them up with their stakes where you feel you might be outflanked then on starting the battle move your archers to where you really want them, leaving their stakes behind as added defenses (if being sieged you can even set up the stakes directly behind your main gate (or wherever you feel the wall will be breached)and watch the enemy cavalry rip themselves to shreds as they storm in!).
    Also, some of your basic units (levy spearmen, mailed knights etc) will retain their usefulness even when better (and more expensive) troops become available so don't feel the need to replace everything when you get the chance.
    Use your militia troops to garrison your settlements and your best troops for the main battles.
    Try to keep a good balance of castles to cities, I find a 1:5 ratio works well. Once you command the whole British Isles you can even do away with all the castles there-cities are your money makers.
    Another small point:alliances. Get one with the Pope and play him for all you're worth. Cosy in nice and be popular with him (keep giving him map info and if need be small gifts of money) and you get to call the shots on where crusades happen-i.e. against your enemies! If you are crusading you get access to lots of good troops which stick around even after the crusade finishes. In a game, playing as Sicily I managed to call all of the crusades for the enitire game. It's a self reinforcing thing as well, when you successfully crusade, your popularity with the Pope goes up making it easier to call the next one.
    Having played as all the factions I think that England is the most fun, so good luck, go and stick it to them!!!
    Last edited by kitbogha; 08-20-2008 at 19:53.
    "I like a man who grins when he fights"
    Winston Churchill.
    "It is not sufficient that I suceed - all others must fail.”
    Genghis Khan

  13. #193
    Member Member Socrateach's Avatar
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    Question England & Troop Centers

    Greetings.

    Playing as England, I took some sage advice from previous posters and turned Carnaevon & Inverness into cities for trade purposes (and also because they're a bit out of the way to ferry troops when quick action is needed). I kept Nottingham as my bowman center, which worked out extremely well. I used Caen as my infantry factory, which was similarly successful.

    Now, the rub: After turn 50 or so, when diplomacy began to turn to insanity on some other nations' parts, I felt a bit lacking in cavalry. After early crusading I had gained a Hospitalier Major Guild House in Caen, but with that also being for infantry, the castle is in a bit of a crunch when I need lots of troops for a new army.

    I'd appreciate some advice about what to change; I did not turn any cities (Bruges, Rennes, etc.) into castles. Should I try to entice France to swap me Angers, or would that only make them angry? Is there a continental city that would be ideal for castle-izing?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments.

  14. #194
    Member Member TKaz84's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    When you need another castle, you always want to convert the province that will result in the smallest income loss. Thus you want to look for a province that is a) poor for farming and b) inland. Most of the french provinces are fairly fertile IIRC, so you will want to find one that has no port so you won't lose out on sea trade. asngers would do nicely if you can get it.

  15. #195
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I've played three England campaigns. In every one of them I've wound up at war with the French, and never by my own aggression. So, I've always made Angers into a castle after I captured it, and switched Caen to a city.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  16. #196
    Merciless Mauler Member TheLastPrivate's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Honestly I hate having nottingham as a castle. It makes way too much money to keep it as a castle.

    Same for Caen. I hate keeping Caen a castle. Well, what castles do I have?

    Here is my opening moves for the isles:

    1) Take York and Caernarvon. Move a ship towards the landbridge that connects Ireland with the rest of the island. Wait for the single scottish stack to cross it then block it with your ship.

    2) With the majority of their forces doomed in Ireland, wipe out the scottish. When that's done, use a navy to ferry your troops to Dublin and capture it. At this point the scottish shuld be wiped out due to having no castles/generals, or even if they captured doublin they should have suffered losses and should pose no trouble.

    ^ All of the above should be done in 6~10 turns, depending on scottish movement.
    While the scots are being mopped up, a diplomat/princess should:

    1) Ask for Angers while giving trade rights, alliance, map info and maybe some florins.
    They should budge after some negotiations.

    2) The other should run to Rome to pay the pope.

    If the French are allies, where shuld we expand?

    Go Scandinavia. Secure Florence, Bruges, and skip hamburg (this will be buffer for HRE and you if the Danish took it), and take Oslo, Arhus, and Stockholm. Blockcade the land bridge from denmark to Scandinavia to avoid nasty surprises.

    Now you control all of the northern seas from British Isles to the Balic. This should bring you enough cash to simply overrun everything with spammed armoured swords/longbows/mailed knights.

    Sooner or later the Spanish/Portugese will siege either Rennes/Dublin/Caernarvon. Have a stack or 2 around to repel them. If the French are at heavy war with HRE and lacks the military power to backstab, you can forget the French and actually go to Iberia.

    Basically, my strategy involves following a costal trade path. The trade from costal cities more than make up for garrison and tax losses due to having a stretched-out empire. B


    Gae Ma Ki Byung:
    Possibly the earliest full-armored heavy cavalry in human history, deployed by the Goguryeo from the 3rd century A.D.

  17. #197

    Default Re: England

    I started a new campaign today and did a few things differently than previously.

    I'm with the Nottingham should be a city crowd. Basically I go to secure the uk isles ASAP, typically Scotland is gone well before turn 10 (turn 6,7 or 8). Once they're gone its just seiges which archers and cavalry don't help a great deal with so what is the point in a castle instead of just a city and using militia and mercs.... no point in my eyes. I get what I can in the first couple of turns (cavalry) then switch it to a city.

    My understanding on how to train generals/governers is better. After the starting king died around turn 25 I have 3 generals. The current king and hier are high chivalry through occupying the scotland+ireland cities with one general and the other through pumping out church+priests thats also gave him good piety, this should hopefully make for good governor sons. They also have 6+ stars since they've been fighting lots but they'll get retired when the sons come of age. My 3rd general is Henry, the youngest and already a high dread+command leader who's razed a rebel cities and 3 of Frances cities. I've avoided many of the bad traiting i've picked up in previous games through understanding the tax levels+happyness combinations and such.

    Previously my diplomacy was limited to trade rights and map trades, plus the obvious money gifts to the pope to keep him sweet. I've decided to put more effort into keeping allies happy, previously i've just thought "why pay them when they're going to double cross me, put the money towards an army and them" but i've only got 3 generals currently spread thin with France being such a big landmass and I hate armies going rebel so won't move armies without a general. Currently i've been keeping Denmark sweet since sending my first princess to form a marrage alliance. By the time they came to Antwerp (i think, near bruges) I had secured the uk isles and had my economy going so I trained a diplomat to send specifically to them so I can bung them the occational 1k or 2k when our relationship drops. I've kept it above So-So and they haven't double crossed me yet allowing me to concentrate on finishing France and keep another to cover HRE and the Milanesse.


    The best tip I can give is ignore the pope while your first king is alive. I got excommunicated for keeping attacking France, I was able to take 4 French cities before my king died and I got re-communicated (I think thats what its called) and bunged the pope a few k and was well in his good books. I've taken another french city before getting that "pope wants you to stop attacking so and so" leaving them with 2 cities until I can attack again. The turn he typically dies is the mid 20's so starting a war or if they betray you in the late teen's, take as much as you can get. I think i'll take advantage of getting re-communicated when the king dies more, when my prince is ready to lead, keep attacking then when done with that offensive suicide the king into something and get recommunicated .
    Last edited by Lord Preston; 10-07-2008 at 03:16.

  18. #198

    Default Re: England

    Playing M/M campaign on 1.0 vanilla, 2 years per turn.

    My experience with the English indicates that southward expansion will be your primary game. Your secondary game will be against to the east, against the Danes. This is geared toward a North Sea trade triangle (the North Sea is the water between the British Isles, Denmark/Jutland, Scandinavia, and the Flemish provinces), which should prove incredibly lucrative, probably almost as much as the Italian trade triangles in the Mediterranean. Key settlements to aim for should be Edinburgh, Antwerp, Bruges, Oslo, and Arhus, all port cities on the North Sea. Key castles for me would be Tolouse for southern units production against the Italians and Iberians, Caen for the Woodsman's guild and the initial fight against the French (later the Milanese and the HRE), Hamburg for the HRE and defense of Denmark and the Flemish provinces, and Nottingham for the initial attack on Denmark (and maybe a cavalry factory later on).

    Like most people, I first unified the British Isles. It is possible to defeat Scotland with assassins, since they have all of about 3 generals, none of which are very concerned with personal security. However, this way is risky as you need all the money you can get in the beginning. Take York quickly for the mission bonuses and upgrade to a town, in the meantime going for Edinburgh. If you do so fairly quickly the Scots will not even get to Inverness. A problem with this plan is that (at least in 1.0) the Scots have a fairly large starting stack of archers and infantry that probably outnumber you. So use that spy! It is essential to take Edinburgh the moment you siege it, otherwise you'll be facing a stack of infantry that will rip your militia apart. Your only choices to defeat these infantry are your cavalry, which are few are far between and will take heavy damages from those Scottish spears. Taking Edinburgh will force the Scottish stacks to become rebels for you to deal with at your leisure (I tend to use the rebel generals to train my best assassins). After Edinburgh, you can go for Caernavon and Inverness, both of which should become cities (even Nottingham is way more than enough for the Isles). Try not to use up too many men against the Scots and the rebels, as Dublin tends to be a nasty battle for me (those Galloglaichs are definitely one of the most annoying units to fight against in towns - they massacre your units with their superior attack, AP, and ability to overwhelm your units in tight areas). Ireland tends to be a good place to train up your Cardinal, plus there's a heretic to get you an extra piety point. Once your conquest of the British Isles is over, build up those towns quickly. Edinburgh and London tend to get problems with overpopulation and squalor since your funds are often too low to recruit and build walls at the same time, but for now you have an excellent economic base. Build up Nottingham to produce better units, both for against the rebels and for your future conquest of the Danes.

    In the south, you have Caen. Caen is an excellently positioned castle, between several rebel settlements and upgraded quite well when you start. Your immediate priority is to recruit longbows. Remember that longbows are an excellent defensive unit during sieges - leaving about 3 or 4 in Caen, plus maybe a few spears, will render it invincible to French attack. I tried going for Bruges and Antwerp, but the superior Flemish units easily repelled me (those Flemish pikes especially - the Netherlands would have made an amazingly powerful faction had they been a contending faction in the era, just like the Swiss with their pikes). So don't go for the Flemish provinces yet, instead, go for Rennes. It's a fairly small town and easy to take, take it mostly for extra cash and maybe a ballista production center. Bordeaux should be your next target if the French don't have it. Keep it a castle only long enough to retrain your cavalry, then change it to a town. By now the French have attacked you, unless you got an alliance in early, in which case they will do so in a few turns. I believe Angers begins as a rebel settlement - take it after Bordeaux if it is, after the French declare war if they've taken it. Use it with Caen to produce longbows for now, turn it into a city later on. Don't bother with military upgrades for Angers, go with economic and religious buildings.

    Here I went for a blitz against France. Since Milan was occupying their attention to the east, I had a bit of time to build up. I made 4 10 or more stack armies of longbows/yeomen, mailed knights (I had no proper stables upgrades for feudals in Caen), and maybe some levy spears or billmen (only for siege or river crossing purposes). I also trained some 4 or 5 spies and set them loose in Northern France, putting them into Dijon and Paris. I sent my ballistae and catapults also to Dijon and Rheims and down south to Tolouse. I gathered the stacks within walking distance of each settlement, and when the moment was ripe, I struck. Clear victories for every battle, 3 new cities and a castle, and the French were pretty much done for (the Pope threatened excommunication so I didn't go for Marseille, which had a full garrison anyway). Tolouse I kept as a castle to protect my Pyrenees frontier and to produce cavalry for a Horse Breeder's guild. I could probably go attack the Danes now, or secure Antwerp and Bruges (they might still be French, maybe Milanese). Antwerp and Bruges is probably a very good idea for the massive trade boost, plus the Danes tend to be extremely weak without those cities (with them, or even with just Antwerp, the Danes tend to be a very strong faction - it happens in some campaigns I play). Hamburg will be my first target, to pretty much destroy the Danes' military potential, gain a very well upgraded castle/fortress (I might be able to train English Knights, or the dismounted version), and threaten the Poles and the HRE. Use the force from the assault on Dublin and your units from Nottingham.

    As things stand, the French are pretty much out of the game and don't require much consideration (they'll probably die out to Milan in the end). I am bordering Milan and the Portuguese. The Portuguese tend not to be a problem - the Iberian map is pretty much the same as the beginning of the game, with the Portuguese moving around a few settlements and losing them to the Spanish. I could easily attack now, but I prefer to spend my florins on eastward expansion (the Iberian Peninsula, in my opinion, just isn't worth the investment and will only be good for training cardinals). Milan will likely be a strong opponent. However, the Genoese crossbows and their militia counterparts are nowhere near as flexible as my longbows, yeomen, retinues, and sherwoods - none of them can deploy stakes, so they're vulnerable to cavalry, they run slower, making them less effective skirmishers, and they can't fire flaming arrows (which I believe are more deadly, but fire slower). They may have a stronger missile attack, but they reload a lot slower (I think half as fast), and in melee combat the longbows (especially the higher level ones) will prevail. Their strong militia may be a problem, but they will fall to the passive ai bug and my missile dominance. The Milanese tend not to use a lot of cavalry, if any, so I believe fighting them will be fairly easy. The Danes are infantry-dominant as well, and do not have long range missiles, so they will be easily defeated as well (I could probably beat them with a full stack longbow army). The HRE may be a problem due to their numerous cavalry and masses of infantry, but again, stakes and missiles. Always use the mountains for terrain advantages. Their units may be very heavy and strong, but suffer in speed as a consequence, so wear them down with steep slopes and AP arrow fire. One the HRE are done with, I could descend into Italy or expand into Poland, which may be a problem because of their horse archers, but they lack long range missiles so I could kill them off from a distance.

    Now for the Papacy. Aston, your cardinal, has a very good chance of getting into the Pope's seat. I normally see two heretics in the British Isles and Ireland near the beginning of the game. You may want to keep the heretic in Ireland there for a while to build up heresy and use it to gain a few piety points. Aside from these, it may be difficult to gain piety. Since York and Nottingham seem to be centers of heresy, I use them to get Aston more points. One thing I do is train priests, preferably with 1 piety and maybe the odd habits line of traits, and use them to try and denounce the heretics. Quite often, they will fail, either becoming heretics themselves or gaining unorthodoxy and falling to heresy the second time around. Use Aston or a priest you're training up to denounce them.

    A secret to the Papacy is that gaining cardinals is not always the best way to control it. As England you have very little opportunity to convert large masses to Catholicism. What you should do instead is expand. Aggressive expansion nets you large power and wealth ratings, and factions are always willing to align themselves with the most powerful of them all. Take all of the British Isles and quite a bit of France before Gregory dies, and you'll have a "Supreme" power rating in diplomacy. Use it when Papal elections come up to secure trade rights, map information, and most of all, alliances. Factions will vote for cardinals using the following priorities: Their own cardinals first, allied cardinals second, and most piety third, with eligibility, violence, purity, and unorthodoxy coming in if there is a tie for piety. So securing those alliances will net you the votes you need. As for map information, most factions will find simple alliance to be very generous of you, so get yourself an accurate overview of the state of things in Europe. Note: Don't bother with ceasefires in Papal elections, they won't vote for you no matter what you do by then.

    Whew, that was long. Have fun!

  19. #199
    Member Member Alerion's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I took a different route towards winning and took out the Scots first and then crusaded into the Holy Land, setting up kind of a crusaders kingdom there... Beat the Egyptians out of Jerusalem, Acre, Gaza, Antiochia and Alexandria and then made them my Vassals. I now turned on the Danes without any problems with the Pope since they are massive bad guys in this campaign and are permanently excommunicated... I mean when theres a new Pope everyone's reconciled but it only takes 1-2 turns and they're out again ^^

    So I allied with the French in the beginning. I sold Caen to them so I had no problems at all with them and they and the Spanish are my allies for the whole campaign until now... The Portuguese declared war on me once but the Spanish have kept them off ma back pretty good and the French are a little weakened through the Portuguese and Milan but since Milan has been destroyed by the Pope (!) there is no direct danger to them... so with England pretty safe and a healthy crusader kingdom (gave the egypts a good amount of money to 1. make them happy and 2. make sure they can defend against the Venetians who conquered the gigantic african province and are trying to attack Cairo every once in a while - the Turks arent allies but I never had war with them and the relations are pretty good so I call it a lasting peace...) I am taking out the Danes now and we'll see what`s next... Probably the HRE, since they are pretty low on Papal standing and I try to be the nice catholic guy this time...

  20. #200
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I did what everybody else seems to have done, i conquered most of the British isles, and eliminated the the Scots before they had time to expand. I then turned my attention to France and the Holy Lands. Just as i was about to declare war on France, as i had a decent foothold, i had taken Bruges, Rennes and i still had Cannes, a crusade was called on Jerusalem. I decided to divert my faction heir to this, as sent him on a boat down to southern france - northern spain, where i hopped over to the mediterreanen and got another boat to take my soldiers to Jerusalem. Here is what i did:

    1. I went everywhere but Jerusalem, i took of Acre, Alexandria, Cairo and any other Egyptian provinces with my crusading army. By the time i took Jerusalem, i had completely got rid of the Egyptians. Not liking large multi-national empires, i executed the population of the cities and destroyed all buildings worth money before gifting them to the papal states.

    2. I then used my crusading army and pretty much destroyed all other forces, causing huge losses to many Muslim nations, such as Turkey and Byzantine, although i didnt bother with the Moors.

    When i had pretty much wasted all of my crusading troops, i had made around 30000 gold from extermiating the cities and handing them over to the papal states, i returned my faction heir to England, the crusades had toughened him up sufficiently to become the next king of England.

    I then concentrated on France, rushing down and quickly securing Angers and letting the French invasion forces waste their armies trying to regain their lost city. From there I am planning on rushing into Paris and down to Bordeux and then an Eastern Expansion into Switzerland, Germany and Italy.
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

  21. #201
    So close to being able to re Member boudica's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Alerion, How did you manage to avoid losing your Crusading army to desertion if you did everything BUT head straight for Jerusalem?

  22. #202
    So close to being able to re Member boudica's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Quote Originally Posted by boudica View Post
    Alerion, How did you manage to avoid losing your Crusading army to desertion if you did everything BUT head straight for Jerusalem?
    Sorry! that question was for Insane834!

  23. #203
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Boudica, if you get there quick enough, then you can have some time to wander over to your crusade target. Also desertion isnt really a big problem, i bought the soldiers for around 100 florins, and the money you save because of the free upkeep is sufficient enough to buy more soldiers while the others desert. Also if you bring seige equipment with you, such as ballistas or catapults, you can quickly seige a city in 1 turn, so there isnt much chance of desertion.

    For the rest of my England campaign, i was playing all of last night and a little this morning so ill tell you what happened next:

    After taking Bruges, Rennes and keeping Cannes, I waited a while and built up a few armies to defend my fronts. The French attacked Rennes and i beat them back and took Paris and then a few turns later the city to its east. I then created two armies and sent one down to Bordeaux, and the other to capture Antwerp. At this point the French had lost much land, as HRE and Milan and Venice had been attacking them too, they were beaten back to a town in central France, south east of Bordeaux that i have forgotten the name of. The Pope then ordered me to stop advancing on the French or I might be excommunicated, so i did.

    On my other front on Antwerp, the Danes came down and made a bold attempt to capture Antwerp, which failed and i rushed north and captured the two Danish settlements north of Antwerp. I then had the pope call a crusade on the Danes, on a minor city, and made a crusading army and instead of going to the objective, i rushed into Arhus and took it, along with the Danish settlement south of it. The pope again spoiled my fun by making me stop attacking Danes, so i used my gained gold and bought Madgeburg for 25,000 florins.

    I then had a few problems with the HRE when they brought several large armies and attacked of my settlements, which i fought back. This is where I am now, I plan to Eliminate the French, Danes and Romans before moving down and destroying Venice who oddly declared war on me earlier for no apparent reason. The Gunpowder age has just started, with cannons being available for purchase. However I am the only one who has mastered them yet it seems, as many of my enemies are still fighting with spearmen, and are just starting to bring in some Heavy Infantry.
    Last edited by Mek Simmur al Ragaski; 12-06-2008 at 16:48.
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

  24. #204
    Member Member Alerion's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Quote Originally Posted by Insane834 View Post
    2. I then used my crusading army and pretty much destroyed all other forces, causing huge losses to many Muslim nations, such as Turkey and Byzantine, although i didnt bother with the Moors.
    You do realize there are other religions than Catholicism and Islam, right? ;)

    Other than that, sounds like an interesting campaign, though the lack of your opponents advancing in technology makes me ask: Which difficulty?

  25. #205
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I did it on Medium/Medium although on my next campaign I plan to raise the battle difficulty as it is getting tedious killing 1000's of men and hardly losing any of my soldiers. The Black Death has just spread in my campaign, just as I conquered all of France too...
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

  26. #206
    Member Member Alerion's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    You should really try to also raise the campaign diff. - I dont have the game for too long but I got bored quickly with lower campaign difficulties, since the opponents seem to stagnate in everything... Your dominance on the battlefield could easily also come from your opponents fielding levies while you run into them with english knights, retinue longbowmen and armored swordsmen ;)

  27. #207
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    A good point, I might just do that because I stupidly saved over my England Campaign...
    Yeah so ill try a different faction on raised battle difficulty/campaign difficulty and see how it turns out. Maybe a different faction too, the HRE sounds good
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

  28. #208
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Another Tip:

    If you start to conquer, dont stop! I had numero uno in every ranking thing, then I stopped to build up my forces and I was betrayed by 5 of my allys at the same time. Denmark hit Antwerp and Rheims, France attacked Dijon, Milan went for Angers, The Moors attacked my lone city of Tunis, and Egypt attacked Jerusalem and Acre. Also the Mongols came and took over whatever the Egyptians managed to take from me. If I hadn't of stopped I would have destroyed the French and the Danes would be next, now I'm going to have to bring my soldiers together from Africa and assault southern France and Italy to get my economic stability back.
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

  29. #209
    Member Member oz_wwjd's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I've found that as well. In my 2 attempted English campaigns so far,in the first one I was unable to secure a marriage alliance with the french early,so they attacked Caen,and were beaten back with heavy losses,due to the 8 units of longbowmen I had in there.Then Denmark launched a series of attacks against Bruges,forcing me to rush my longbow army up there via ship to deal with them,and Portugual decided that they wanted Dublin,forcing me to hire every merc in the area to repulse them.After I defeated them 3 times they switched to Caernorvon,again forcing me to hire mercs to deal with the stack of Dis feudal Knights they had. Then the spanish decided they wanted REnnes and landed a full-stack army there,against forcing me to ship my longbow army back to deal with them,shortly after that I started over as I could see that I wasn't going to get anywhere.

    In my next go, I managed to secure a marrange allaince with the French,but while I was moping up the scots,the HRE decided that they wanted rennes and turned up with a full-stack army,which seeoing that I had just transferred everything to dublin as the last scot king had a 1,500 army which I needed to deal with,pretty much screwed me over.

  30. #210
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Yeah I know it sucks when your hit by several allys at the same time. Thankfully, HRE is also struggling, and I've been allied with them from the start of the game. If they had attacked, i'd have probably lost all continental Europe cities. These weren't just half stacks i was attacked with either, they are full stacks, and half the time it's countries that can't even financially support their armies that are fielding them.
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

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