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Thread: Milan

  1. #1

    Default Milan

    Milan needs to be unlocked before you can play as them. To do this you can either complete a campaign (on any difficutly, long or short setting) with one of the five starting factions, or you can edit the preferences file. To do this open your Sega/M2TW folder/data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign, find the file called "descr_strat" and open it with wordpad. Now find the section which says
    Code:
    campaign      imperial_campaign
    playable
       england
       france
       hre
       spain
       venice
    end
    unlockable
       sicily
       milan
       scotland
       byzantium
       russia
       moors
       turks
       egypt
       denmark
       portugal
       poland
       hungary
    end
    nonplayable
       papal_states
       aztecs
       mongols
       timurids
       slave
    end
    Change it so it reads
    Code:
    campaign      imperial_campaign
    playable
       england
       france
       hre
       spain
       venice
       sicily
       milan
       scotland
       byzantium
       russia
       moors
       turks
       egypt
       denmark
       portugal
       poland
       hungary
    end
    nonplayable
       papal_states
       aztecs
       mongols
       timurids
       slave
    end
    Last edited by frogbeastegg; 11-13-2006 at 22:29.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Milan

    Milan

    Milan is a bit of a strange faction it doesn’t really put forward any major unique units and the units they have tend to be a bit lacking in power, however they do have the best crossbow men in the game, and the crossbow bolts make a sexy noise that makes me tingle down below so they’ve become one of my favourite factions.

    Castles?!... who needs Castles….

    Milan can live without creating castles… I know, I know sounds strange but until the top end of the castle tech tree they don’t get anything that useful… and their Militia like the other Italian factions are excellent, ok men at arms and feudal knights are useful for forming a backbone but I find that Italian Spear Militia tend to do just as well and they’re cheaper and easier to come by.

    I tend to find my armies are composed of three major elements.

    4-5 units of spearmen
    4-5 units of Genoese Crossbow Militia
    1-2 units of militia cavalry

    Of course feudal knights on foot are better than spearmen and Genoese Crossbow men are better than their militia counterpart and feudal knights are better than militia cavalry. Problem is until you upgrade to a fortress feudal knights are hard to come by and Genoese crossbow men are top end. Just use the militia and throw more elite units in as required and as they become available.

    Crossbow men pepper the enemy while they come towards you, when they charge your spearmen flank them with your cav and if your desperate throw your crossbow men into the fight (Genoese crossbowmen are more than capable in a fight) remember your crossbow men will likely have a longer range than their missile men (unless they’re also crossbow armed troops) but you’ll have more of them, make the enemy come to you!.

    Campaign

    Milan starts with two cities Milan and Genoa both in north Italy, within a turns march there are three other cities, Venice owned by Venice strangely enough, Bologna owned by the HRE and Florence which is rebel.

    Milans main difficulty is that it starts in close proximity to possible enemies and theres not alot of room to expand.

    Your main problem is going to be Venice when you start off it’s a matter of “when” not “if” they will attack and Venice is a days march away from Milan you wont have much warning other than a large Venice army knocking at your front door.

    Ideally what you want to do first is either take Florence or if your feeling a tad more brave go straight for Venice! Florence makes a good castle as its in the centre of the northern Italy cities so you can use it to supply the surrounding cities with higher quality troops, while Venice can stay as a city and gives you access to east Italian waters and an excellent cash producing city.

    Personally… leave Bologna the main reasons being you want to keep the HRE friendly for as long as possible and it’s the one way Sicily can attack, give it 10 turns and Sicily and HRE will be at war and Sicily will be trying to take Bologna, a pre-emptive on Bologna will put you at war with the HRE then Sicily will attack you then Venice will now doubt join in the fun. So leave it for now.

    Bern is another possibility for expansion but again… don’t, it’s a castle north of Milan and taking it seems to put you at odds with the HRE and France.

    A better route for expansion is to head by sea to the island forts of Ajaccio and Cagliar, these are easy to take and if you change them both to cities and build them up they can become real cash producers.

    Once you’ve taken Venice (either as a pre-emptive or as retribution) and Sicily has taken Bologna go to war with Sicily as their army will have taken a beating to take the city, so take advantage and an ill defended Bologna and then push on and take control of Italy. When Venice loses Venice they tend to not bother you so much.

    Once you’ve gained control of the whole of Italy (with the exception of Rome… unless your feeling a tad peeved with the pope of course) you will have some of the richest cities in the world and the ability to strike anywhere. And as if you needed another bonus you can beat anyone to a crusade as you can be in the holy lands in 4-3 turns from the south coast of Italy by boat, and dont forget the sexy crossbow bolt noises...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Milan

    Milan is an unusual faction in that you don't need castles to produce powerful combat units. It shares this feature in common with nearby Venice.


    The forces

    Italian Militia, and Italian Spear militia are perhaps the best militia units availiable to any faction, and give you a powerful edge in the early game. Also in your favour is the fact that they are militia and a certain number can be supported in cities for free, and the maintainance costs are generally low. This means that while your rivals might struggle to keep their feudal levies in the field, you can easily support a large military. Combine this with the fact that most of your settlements can be cities, and you will have a serious economic edge over your rivals.

    Milan is also unusual in that their militia cavalry is roughly the equal of mailed knights, with the edge obviously going to the Knights, but again, as militia, their upkeep is low, and cities can support some for free.
    The trump card in my opinion is the Genoese Crossbow militia. boasting excellent defence and a potent longranged missile attack, they can also hold their own in a melee

    Many of the better late game troops are also produced in cities, the famiglia Ducale being the pinacle of Milanese heavy cavalry but easier to produce are the broken swords and their dismounted counterparts. they are only slightly inferior to feudal knights and their dismounted counterparts.

    Gunpowder troops can also be trained in cities, so despite the fact that the feudal soldiers might be slightly superior, there is no real need to build castles at all, cities will provide you with all the wealth and soldiers that you need.

    Starting Position

    Milan is surrounded by potentially powerful enemies from the start of the game, with only limited room for expansion. you will innevitable find yourself at war with one or more of your neighbours sooner rather than later.
    The factions 2 cities are situated in one of the wealthiest areas, however, so rather than looking upon the relatively weak starting position as a problem, you should look at it as an opportunity

    Opening moves

    The city of florence is within easy striking distance and should be claimed from as early as possible, then you should look at the castles of Ajacio and Cagliari on the islands to the south of Genoa. I swiftly changed these to towns for the extra revenue, and it payed off in the long run. these 5 cities will provide you with a solid foundation from which to build your empire.

    Next Steps

    The two logical next steps are to eliminate the Sicilians and the Venetians. the Sicilians have a very advantageous strategic position, while the venetians are very wealthy, Venice itself is a prize worth fighting a war over.
    these moves might attract the ire of the HRE but in the early game they are not a tremendous threat, its the other italians that you have to worry about.

    Once sicily and venice are eliminated (you only really need to take Venice to limit the venetians power.

    With Italy under your control, and hopefully having taken steps to appease the pope the direction you strike next is entirely up to you. Sicily will provide a good stepping stone into africa, whileif you advance into the balkans and attempt to destroy the venetians you will come into contact with more potential enemies. Innevitably you will want to fight against the Byzantines and the former venetian holdings will provide a good stepping stone.

    Equally viable are seizing the french coastal towns and attempting to dominate the western mediterranean, but, as i have already said, once italy is yours, you can go anywhere you want, since you will literally occupy the center of the map

  4. #4

    Default Re: Milan

    Naval power

    The kingdom of milan is both cursed and blessed by the large number of coastal settlements. Blessed in that as cities they will generate a huge amount of revinue, cursed in that as coastal cities they are vulnerable to sieges, and naval blokades will drastically hurt your income. As an example in my current game (M/M) the city of genoa nets me a fairly hefty 3800 gold per turn, this drops to 1900-2000 should i be unfortunate enough to suffer a blokade. obviously then, maintaining a fleet to defend your coastal ports is essential.

    The starting milanese ships are the galley and war galley. while not outstanding combat ships individually, it is possible to swiftly build up a good sized force to defend your assets. in the later game, when gunpowder becomes availiable you gain access to more potent ships.

    Naval Strategy

    Wars can be a costly enterprise, the need to maintain a large military to fight the wars, and the loss of revinue through broken trade pacts, sieges and blokades can really hurt you, but it can also hurt your enemies. A swift naval blokade can bring your enemies to the negociating table to offer favourable terms for a ceasefire, while possessing a strong navy can prevent an enemy doing the same to you. clearly a navy is a vital tool in your political arsenal.

    Navies also present you with greater tactical flexibility for your armies. a vital land route might be blocked by an enemy force, but it is faster to move armies by sea, and you avoid the possibility of ambushes and costly bridge battles. more importantly, the increased speed with which sea borne forces can be moved means that while your enemy might be rushing his armies to the front, you can slip in behind and ravage his cities, with little risk of any intervention by a large army that has moved towards your cities.

    Balancing Army and Navy

    Navies don't come without a cost, training and maintenance is expensive, but milan is blessed with both a potentially very strong economy, and strong militia troops. they are both cheap to maintain, and you can maintain multiple units for free. as far as city defence goes your free units will normally be sufficient to thwart all but the most determined of assaults. even considering this, however, it is very hard to maintain more than 2-3 full armies, and a strong navy. but using the navy to rapidly redeploy forces can go a long way towards giving you a powerful military edge

    War versus Sicily, an example

    War with sicily is simply a matter of when, not if a campaign will begin, and you can swiftly deal with them, swiftly as in 5-6 turns...

    The first step is to make sure you have an edequate network of agents to keep track of enemy movements, diplomats and priests will suffice, but spy's are certainly preferable.

    The second step is to make sure you have an army with several siege engines and a large amount of infantry, militia and spear militia will do, since you won't actually be fighting any pitched battles.

    when you have an army ready to go blokade either naples or palermo to start hostilities, a large 'donation' to the papacy will ensure he does not interfere in this war.
    lacking any Navy itself (you should ruthlessly destroy enemy ships) Sicily will move its army by land, a 3-4 turn march from naples, much longer from Palermo. when their forces are sufficiently distant, land your army at palermo, and swiftly sieze it. Palermo is a much better target since, as a well developed castle, it is much easier to defend from any counter attacks. you should storm the small garrison immediately, and, leaving only damaged units necesary to prevent it revolting, load your army back on to the boats. the next target is Naples, at most 2 turns sailing.

    It is quite possible that sicily has by this time reached bologna, and if it is your possession laid siege to it, don't be concerned, because Naples is considerably easier to take than Palermo. land your troops, and storm the city immediately. wth the loss of the city, any forces the sicilians have in the field will revert to being rebels, and can be dealt with at your leasure.

    Obviously this is an idealised campaign, but i have tried it 3 times, each time resulting in success. It should not be too hard to use similar tactics against other nations, a naval campaign against the Moors for example, or the french mediterranean holdings. in essence, don't neglect your navy

  5. #5
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    I have been playing Milan recently, and I absolutely love it.

    Militia Units or Combat Units?
    While Debe2233 puts up a compelling argument against building castles, the use of castles should not be underestimated, especially with the Milanese. Genoa and Milan both start out as Cities. Keep them that way. You'll need one (preferably Genoa) for a Merchant's Guild and one (again, preferably Milan) for the Theologians Guild. Start building your town guard buildings until you get the Genoese Crossbow Militia (first in Milan due to the slow growth of Genoa). These militia units are the most powerful militia units you'll find in the Catholic kingdom. 12 missile attack, and 14 defense. AND they can be used as free upkeep

    When you have a sizable army, seize Bern (Switzerland's castle). Occupy and keep Bern a castle so you can upgrade to fortress level and beyond sooner. With Bern snuggly in your hands, you can start building one of the ultimate early foot troops: Genoese Crossbowmen. These powerhouses have 14 missile attack (as opposed to 12) and 16 defense (versus the 14 of militia), making them the most powerful non-gunpowder missile foot troops in the game. Their melee attack has also been upgraded so they can defend castle walls with more ease. Use these units in your eventual conquer of the world.

    However, because of the ability of Free Upkeep you get from the militia crossbowmen in towns, you will only need two castles in your entire game: Bern and Gaza (Egypt). Bern for the conquest of Europe, and Gaza for the conquest of the Holy Land. Every other castle is optional, and is suggested you convert into a town for more money. Use Bern and Gaza to churn out Genoese Crossbowmen and Feudal (both mounted and dismounted) Knights.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Milan

    Yup, a couple of castles is all you need, and really only for the crossbow men.

    dismounted knights are good but you get dismounted broken lancers at the largest city wall and a heavy cav unit from the largest town hall building (cant remeber their name... something ducal)

    Milans major downfall is it takes along time to tech to these units so for a good half the game you'll be stuck with militia.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Milan

    Although some people said "its hard to expand" because your all closed in. Nonsense, you've just gotta be really agressive. Boot Venice outta venice, take, florence, taker bolougna.

    Then I quickly took the two Islands for a bit of cash (convert to cities). As another guy said though, sicily will attack now. So I blitz them, they only have two cities so I've destroyed them already.

    A note on priests, its really easy to get cardinals with milan, with Byzantine (non catholic) so close a quick boat of 3 or 4 priests will get you some cardinals in no time.

    I now plan to take back venice, last turn HRE siezed it (only had a small garrison) and then expand north into the HRE. Possibly getting an alliance with Denamark, so we get the HRE surrounded.

    Oh, and mercenery spearmen early game are very useful. Since you'll be quite rich you can afford them.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Milan

    I've been playing Milan for about sixty turns or so, and they're my favorite Italian faction yet. (M/M)

    I combined my initial fleet, then sent them with a family member and a handful of units straight for Algiers, taking on the poorly-garrisoned Moor castle. At the same time, my heir, Count Bernardo, built an army and went from Genoa to Florence, snatching it before anyone else could. I sent him back to Genoa to retrain, meeting up with six more Italian Militia from both Milan and Genoa.

    I'd taken Algiers by this point, getting it before a larger Moor army could arrive. built it up a bit, just holding position. Bernardo's army went from Genoa down through both islands, and taking Tunis. I'd left parts of my army behind to garrison the new Milanese towns.

    To make a long story short, I wound up taking the Moors out of North Africa, and blocking that landbridge with a fleet. I conquered all of it except for one town on the coast, which I can't seem to get to by land or sea. Same with a couple of the resources around Timbuktu..

    I'm at war with the French, who didn't do much of anything. Venice just attacked me about five turns ago, but they didn't stand much chance against my superior army, and general. Now, my flag flies over their former capital.

    However..Duke Bernardo the Brave (Command 8, Dread 6) just died, and his heir isn't so great, so I may be in a bit of trouble..

  9. #9

    Default Re: Milan

    I'm also about 60-70 turns in, however as I left the Moors alone I've conentrated on the Italian peninsula. I hold all of it now, including Rome. I took Rome, killed the pope and because I had the most cardinals I voted in my own pope and was let back into the holy club

    I also have taken Innbruck and Nurembourg from the HRE with Bern under siege.

    I also successfully requested a crusade to Jerusalem. I took Jerusalem with ease (only 1 general bodyguard unit was garrisoned). I sacked it, knocked down all the buildings, then moved my army out. Making me very rich. I then took Acre from the Venetians who had beaten me there on a previous Crusade, sacked it, removed all buildings, moved army out. I then took my army down to Cairo and did the same. Alexandria is now also under siege and the same process will be inflicted on the non-believers.

    I plan to further extend into the HRE

  10. #10

    Default Re: Milan

    West Med Crusader

    In the past I always played a catholic fighting dread heavy english force. Now I am taking the battle to the Infidels and working with rather than against the pope.

    ok in my game I did the following:

    Milan became unit production base teching up for x-bows
    Venice would be trade + artillery + boat production.

    Combined all nobles into 1 army with as many units as I could bring.

    Conquered florence then the two islands. Got trade rights, maps from everyone I could and allaince with pope. Converted all to cities.

    Then I crusaded to Tunis. Took tunis and enjoyed the massive chiv bonuses my men got. ( In retrospect should of brought my priest with the army.) Got money from the pope and the council of nobles.

    Took bern and placed on general in there for pop boost ( massive chiv rocks) this is going to be genoese x-bow prod centre for later.

    Placed my faction leader in the capital the chiv bonuses meant a mean 9% growth rate.

    Build up my armies accepting a chapter house in milan and trade guild in venice.

    Germans sieged bern for 1 turn slightly delaying an attack I had planned for west med (Moors + 2 reb provinces) I had words with the pope and in 1 turn the HRE was asking for ceasefire which I accepted + a nice tribute.

    Finally my west med attack is underway, I have 3 new generals which I am going to be using for chiv bonuses. Taken a east coast spanish rebel settlement ( not the one with El Cid the other one forgot its name).

    Repeatedly been begging the pope for a crusade in corduba but he keeps refusing. So I build a diplomat in florence and send him with sweetners.

    Eventually pope relented and gave his permission I for one am not going to let the old boy down. Sent in the troops panicked a little when I saw the portuguese sieging corduba. Fortunately by the time I got there the moors had pyrhiccally (sp?) beat them off leaving only 10 men defending corduba.

    Took corduba and the next generation of milans generals now have obscene chivalry. I even started releasing prisioners on occasion since the chiv bonus is too sexy.

    Finshed off the rest of the rebels + moors in south east spain.

    Notes on fighting:

    I use:

    Geneose x-bows militia (currrently ) although I dream of getting the superior non milita version in bern soon.
    Italian spear militia. ( these are great at holding a street or line+ incredibly expendable)
    Artillery ( I try to build all kinds quickly)
    cavalry I use Templars( thank you crusades!) and Generals

    Notes on pope:

    keep a diplomat close ( for sweetners)
    keep lots of priests converting muslims ( a range of bonuses appear)

    Future problems:

    When fights consist of full stacks how will I deal with a very large mass of enemy heavy infantry in a city? Currently in most battles I go for missle superiority and cav superiority the templar are as good as general units but obviously with more men.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Milan

    When fights consist of full stacks how will I deal with a very large mass of enemy heavy infantry in a city? Currently in most battles I go for missle superiority and cav superiority the templar are as good as general units but obviously with more men.
    With the majority of your settlements being cities you are, for the most part, forced to use militia in your armies, and, with their lower maintenance you can usually have numerical superiority. In a city fight any numerical superiority you have will be less of an advantage. Heavy infantry will eat even experienced militia spearmen alive, and you do have to wait a long tim for your tech tree to reach Dismounted Broken lances.

    This is one of the reasons you should consider a fairly early campaign against Sicily. Palermo is a very advanced castle in the early game, and should provide you with any heavy infantry you should need. since you have a templar guild you can concentrate on their production, and that of genoese crossbows, who are superior to their militia crossbowmen (though not 'that' superior)
    With this heavy infantry you can contemplate storming cities without horrendous casualties (they will still be heavy) but with a strong economy you should be able to make them good in just a few turns.

    But Milans greatest strength is the ability to maintain large but fairly cheap armies in the field, sieges are one of the places where you are at a disadvantage compared to say, the HRE, england or france

    Regards

  12. #12

    Default Re: Milan

    I suppose one way around the militia problem is perhaps overwhelming numbers since I should be able to retreat spent militia off the map and replace with reinforcements.

    I have also been using point blank firing tactics with the x-bows which seem to work well what I have is simply this.

    XXX
    SSS

    X= x-bows
    S= spears

    I use mulitple groups like this coming at the enemy from different angles. At point blank range the x-bows anhilate. if the enemy get real close I move the x-bows behind the spears.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Milan

    Siege problem for Milan:

    As some have already mentioned, Milan has problems with heavy infantry attacking cities. Yesterday I had a battle where HRE invaded my Bern, here are the forces:

    HRE (attacker):
    - 10 (?) Feudal Foot Knights units
    - 2 Pavise Crossbowmen
    - 3 Trebuchets
    - Family member general

    Milan (my besieged defender):
    - 1 Broken Lances unit
    - 4 Genoese Crossbow Militia units
    - 4 Italian Spear Militias
    - Family member general
    - 4 Militia Cavalry units

    I have won the battle with rather small casualties.
    1. Instead of waiting for enemy to attack, I have attacked first.

    2. I have left my infantry on walls and behind the gate, and took my cavalry through the side gate. I concentrated all my 5 cavalry units on one flank.

    3. Meanwhile I have distracted enemy by moving 1 GCM unit in front of the gate (so they could fire at enemy who kept out of range, firing Trebuchets). This got their attention enough to move few units, and in effect some of them came into range of GCM on walls.

    4. I have charged their general, 2 heavy inf. units and some artillery with my cavalry. This caused massive damage, sice a succesful charge on non spear infantry is deadly.

    5. Enemy units that tried to intercept my GCM started to pull back to reinforce their fighting flank, so i pushed my infantry through the front gate, run, and charged the enemy foot knights.

    After that it was only mopping up. Cavalry took most damage. I had to withdraw them and recharge couple times but in the end their general died, couple enemy units were wiped out, and the rest of army routed and was captured.

    I think my cav was down to 5-10 men per unit, but they did an awesome job.

    Conclusion:
    When facing heavy infantry, charge them with cavalry. Probably wont work vs Halabards or Billmen thou.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Milan

    Milan Breach Strategy

    Defeated the HRE( they where x-commed) army soundly in bologna yesterday despite them having a rather large stack in the city. The battle was fought by 5 genoa x-bow militia 5 it spears and 6 heavy cav + 2 heavy artillery.

    Phase 1 : knock out lots of towers

    Phase 2: place many holes in walls especially to knock out standing units. NB if you hole a section of wall ( between two towers) twice all units between the holes die.

    Phase 3: Approached my geneo x-bows spears and cav in 5 formations that look like this

    XXX
    SSS
    CCC

    Each x-bow sits in front of breach and opens fire point blank at enemy.

    If enemy surges out of the walls the spears and cav deal with it.

    the X bows manage to cause terrific casualities for low arrow cost at point blank and then the cav and spears clean up.

    This strat may not work after passive AI changes however an enemy surge could be dealt with by the spears and superior cav.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Milan

    I was messing around and having played England with all castles I decided to have a joke attempt at world domination with Milan with only cities, and as has been said above there militia are really good. By being really very aggresive and wipin gout the French royal family by turn 20, (two assasinations and one battle near Genoa) I was really big really quick, with most of Italy (bar Rome) and France (Bar Cean, Rennes and Paris) taking the Iberian penninsular was easy after that I could swarm people with my militia. This was on M/M but for me the biggest advantage isn't the militia but your position, I really like assasins and because diplomats etc. tend to gather in Northern Italy it is really easy to get near full assasins quite quickly, this means you can have 4 top level assasins by turn 25 and with them taking out factions the easy way is well easy.
    Aracnid

  16. #16
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    IMHO, Milan is a faction for someone who likes to play a diplomatic game on VH with minimal combat. It is a cash-cow faction. When trying to play it, I tried to play my usual "laid-back", "build-up", "do not attack unless attacked" style and ended up with loads of cash very soon.

    Even on the VH campaign setting I managed to keep my relations with almost all neighbors as "good" and "perfect" and still had cash to spare. I ended up buying provinces from my allies just to keep my generals from developing bad traits due to over-bloated treasury... In turn 60 I gave up, for it started to feel boring.

    As to cash: since Milan can play with no castles (I do realize, their better troops still come from castles), they can have their merchant numbers maximized. I would suggest taking over (using merchants) the resources by Constantinopole + Amber iin the North + Spices in the Middle East.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Milan

    I found that Milan is a very strong faction, both due to their location and their military. In terms of location, due to the fact that AI will practically never launch amphibious assaults, you've pretty much got all of italy and the surrounding islands sealed up, with northern italy as the only chokepoint which you need to guard. Combined with the fact that the italian cities are very rich, you've got an excellent base on which to start your empire, and it's largely untouchable.

    Just to resummarize what other people said, capture florence, capture the 2 island castles west of the italian peninsula and convert them to cities (you really don't need sergeants and castle cavalry this early, what you need is gold), capture venice (it'll make you loads of cash, and the venetians won't bother you for a long time), conquer sicily's 2 cities (they've got maybe one army you need to worry about, and after you do an amphibious assault on Palermo, they won't be building another). At that point, HRE usually declares war on you, so take bologna and your italian money making machine is in full swing. From here I usually work my way up through the HRE, taking 2 castles (Innsbruck and Bern) and using those as my castle troop manufacturing bases in Europe. Make sure you butter up the Pope with tribute of 100-200 gold per turn and he'll turn the other way while you conquer europe.

    In terms of military, Milan is practically designed for a very strong start. Italian militia are very strong, especially in the early game where you'll be facing very little high-end elite armies. Spear militia, genoese crossbow militia and cavalry militia are more than capable of beating early armies, you just need to get the most use out of your crossbows (i.e. point blank volleys to oncoming infantry before retreating behind your infantry). By the time you start seeing the heavy infantry pop up, you should have at least one castle to match them. On top of that, you've got the pike/crossbow spearwall (more on that later), dismounted broken lances, and the Famiglia Ducale, one of the (if not the) best cavalry in Europe, all available from your cities. Really, you can go without any castles at all, although Genoese crossbowmen are very good to have. You'll be making lots of cash, and you can defend your cities with free-of-upkeep strong militia units.

    The pike/crossbow spearwall is a lovely little strategy that maximizes use of your crossbowmen and pikes. I think it's already been mentioned, but what you do is form a long line of pike militia (the dirt cheap units you get from cities, upgrade their armor so they don't bite the dust on contact with the enemy) no deeper than 3 ranks. Right in front of them (practically in their faces), place a long 2-rank-deep line of genoese crossbows and turn off "skirmish". Then just start firing away and let the enemy come to you. As the enemy infantry charge your way, your genoese crossbowmen are firing off lethal volleys at point blank range, which is the most painful type of ranged punishment pre-gunpowder (you can do the same with musketeers+pikes later on). As soon as enemy makes contact, the pikes will break the charge and protect the crossbows from the enemy (genoese crossbowmen are surprisingly tough in melee, they'll cut down any infantry that made it through the pike wall). After the enemy gets stopped and thinned out a bit, disable guard mode on the pikes and they'll start thrusting forward, making a mess out of the enemy infantry. Pushing the pike wall forward also covers the crossbowmen, minimizing their losses. The crossbowmen will soften the impact of the enemy, preventing your pike wall from breaking their formation due to some guy getting through the wall. You start getting into trouble against enemy archers, although the crossbowmen will soak up most of the arrows from the pikemen, and genoese crossbowmen with upgraded partial plate armor are among the best units in the game when it comes to soaking up arrows :D
    A cavalry charge to the spearwall is suicide, as expected.

    All in all, the pike/crossbow spearwall makes the best use out of your crossbows while covering the weaknesses of your pikemen. Along with dismounted broken lances (very respectable heavy infantry) to watch your flanks and the Famiglia Ducale heavy cavalry of the milanese to flank the opponents pinned by the pikes, you've got a winning strategy against european armies without the need for castles. People are saying that later on you start running into problems, but with such a strong start, you'll have all the money in the world to make up for any deficiencies. The early stages are the most crucial, and Milan has that covered.

  18. #18
    Member Member kleemann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    Actually i use the same strategy as Nepera described above. I play with the hardest settings. And asked pope for crusading to tunis, loaded all my famylo on ship and got crusader bonuses from thare and another time crusading Venice Castle when they were excom-d.

    I took Venice on second turn and then i was quite passive. I build up good relations with pope (payd tribute 500 per turn and for 20 turns, relations were perfect)

    So i let Venice to attack and blocakde my ports as long as they were excom..

    One trick to play sucsessfully with Milan is to capture Venice in second or third turn. In first turn Venice has strong forces in city but in second they march away to conquer. So i take advantage of this. Hired 4 mercenary units, took all units form Milan and quick marched under Venice. Before that i build fort behind my army to protect my back, so that Vennice army could not send releafing forces. In city thare was only 2 units.

    Another trick: You siege Venice on bridge, so actually if you have sufficent forces you don't have to defend your back. Let Venice attack you on bridge. Reinforcements from city are peace of cake and make capture of city more easy. Just kill all reinforcements and if you win bridge battle city is yours..

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    Actually parking the bridge is probably preferable. It's hard to get better terms on which to decimate their big stack and also crushing of the reinforcements can avoid the siege altogether.

  20. #20
    Member Member Skott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    After reading this I'm tempted to try Milan. I like the archer/linemen type strategies best. I find cavalry useless for the most part in this game. If they ever fix the buggy calvary charges (patch v1.1 didnt fix it)then they'll be worth having and using.

    Anyway here's my question. Most of what I read here is for early movement and strategy. What are people using for middle and late game strategies? Pike and crossbow has been mentioned but what about after gunpowder becomes availble? And how have people delt with the Mongols and the Timurids(sp?) once those two factions show up? I'd like to hear more about middle and late game strategies and tips if possible.

  21. #21
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    I'm about 30 turns into my Milan campaign. I have just captured my first crusade target in the Holy Land, Antioch. One of my crusader generals will stay in the Holy Land and sack every major city/castle there. I plan on gifting these to the Pope and use the Papacy as a buffer state against the Mongols. Meanwhile, my second crusader general will reboard the fleet and head for my main target, Constantinople.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  22. #22

    Default Re: Milan

    Quote Originally Posted by Skott
    After reading this I'm tempted to try Milan. I like the archer/linemen type strategies best. I find cavalry useless for the most part in this game. If they ever fix the buggy calvary charges (patch v1.1 didnt fix it)then they'll be worth having and using.

    Anyway here's my question. Most of what I read here is for early movement and strategy. What are people using for middle and late game strategies? Pike and crossbow has been mentioned but what about after gunpowder becomes availble? And how have people delt with the Mongols and the Timurids(sp?) once those two factions show up? I'd like to hear more about middle and late game strategies and tips if possible.
    I usually find the late game to be more of a "mop up" than closely matched battles. At that point you've got a huge empire and you can win battles before they start, simply by having superior numbers and supply lines.

    In terms of armies, musketeer and pike lines work very well. Musketeers will take losses against archer-heavy factions, and they're hard to replace (I think they need the 6-7th level city barracks to retrain, which takes very long to build) so against such factions you might want to pick fights where you can place your musketeers on elevated terrain right behind your main line, and have a main line consisting of well armored and shielded heavy infantry (and Milan's are just as good as any other). They lack top tier offensive 2-handed infantry, so if you come up against a european enemy with lots of heavy infantry, you're going to have to rely on more than just a head-on infantry charge. Since you don't dig the cavalry, you can either outnumber them (easily done late game) or gun them down.

    With the AI's disposition for militia and light infantry, though, you should have it pretty easy. Against strong opponents, I aim for their castles first so as to cut off their heavy infantry. Mongols (and horse archers in general) are a pain, I think I settled on massing heavy cavalry and genoese crossbowmen against them. Those crossbowmen can take a lot of fire before dropping. You can also recruit some mercenary longbowmen around Italy for the "plant stakes" ability, it comes in very handy against mongols. Your cavalry can keep up with the mongol cavalry trying to get to your flanks.

    Of course you can always choose to not fight them on their terms, and hole up in scities or castles. Constructing forts at the end of every army movement also ensures they have to get through small gates and get chewed up by your infantry if they ever want to attack your armies. You can carry a spy with you to spot nearby stacks and decide whether or not you need to set up a fort. Lots of ways to avoid the open field horse archer slaughter.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    Late game, you don't need strategy. After carving out a decent sized empire early on, you can autocalc your way to victory simply by merit of your vastly superior production against even the Mongols and Timurids.

    I think heavy cavalry should definitely be looked at. Familias Ducales (sp?) are one of the best. They are great against the Mongols also.

    Militia spam with Italian Spear Militia and Pavise Crossbow Militia combined with a Carraccio standard is still quite viable into midgame as well and can in fact defeat the Mongols on bridges/river crossings at a favorable kill ratio.

  24. #24
    Member Member Skott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    When I got home after my posting I started a Milan campaign. I followed basic strategy that most outlined above. I left one general in Milan to build up and sent the other with every unit I could scrape up and took Florence. I made alliance and trade agreements with HRE, Papal States, and Sicily and only trade agreement with Venice since they I planned to attack as soon as I could. I made alliance with Sicily mainly to fool them into thinking I was friendly.

    I took my army from Florence and put them on boat to Palermo. I had a mission to Corsica but I felt that island could wait. Sicily needed to be subdued quick before they could expand. I sent the army south via ship and took Palermo. Made peace with Sciliy right after that. They were eager for peace too.

    Venetian troops left Venice with a token 2 unit force and went to grab Zagreb. I took the opportunity to snatch Venice while they were gone with my army from Milan. I tried to make peace right after taking the city but the Venetians dont forgive it seems.

    I then took my army at Palermo and landed it at Naples and quickly took it. Soon as the city was taken I made peace with Sicily again. Sicilians arent too smart in this respect. They keep believing I mean them no harm.

    I then made a new army in Genoa and sent it to capture Corsica. Unfortunately I was 1 turn too late to get the mission credit but captured it nonetheless. I then sent that army onto Sardinia but as I pulled my ships close into shore I saw the Moors and Sicilians had beaten me to it. The Moors were besieging and the Sicilians were standing about looking pretty upset.

    Having a fleet and army I decided to race to Tunis and take it before the Sicilians realized I was a threat again. Tunis only had token guard force in it. It fell easily. I thought maybe that would end Sicily's involvement in the game but they managed to get Tripoli/Libya. The Venetians were gettting active in Northern Italy so I had to leave Tripoli and turn my attention back to the north.

    The Venetians, not having forgiven me, marched a good size army into Northern Italy. I had built up my army in Venice and I sent most to guard the bridge to the city. Venice wouldnt attack though. Maybe the Pope was telling them not to? Not sure. I kept a diplomat parked at Rome to keep the Papacy happy while I expanded.

    Eventually the Venetians went back to Zagreb and I planned to go grab Bern with my army from Venice but each time I marched west the Venetian army crossed into Northern Italy looking to snatch Venice back while I was away. I brought my army back and the Venetians retreated again. Everytime my army moved west they did so as well. Bern was taken by HRE so I figured I had three choices. Take Tripoli, Go to war with the HRE and grab Bologna, which wouldnt be easy because the HRE Emperor has a large army parked inside, or go after Venice. I could also do nothing but I dont think thats going to help.

    Thats where things are at this point. I got my army from Venice just inside Venetian territory poised to strike Zagreb. A war with the HRE will be long and hard fought so I figure I might as well go ahead and take out the Venetians in Zagreb and Durazzo first if the Pope allows. They refuse to a ceasefire so I imagine they'd hit me if I was to fight the HRE. So they gotta be dealt with before I can fight the HRE. I'd like to avoid a two front war if I can for now.

    The remaining Sicilian army in Tripoli is a nonthreat. I'll send a army from Tunis as soon as I can build a sufficient force to deal with them. The Moors can have Corsica for now. I'll let them build it up and once I have dealt with the Ventians and HRE I'll take Northwest Africa and liberate it from the Moorish occupation. But thats for later.

    So far the Milanese troops are performing exceptionally well. I put the crossbow men in front, the Italian spearmen behind them and cavalry behind the spearmen or on the flanks to follow up any weaknesses. Basically move up to the enemy, soften up with arrows, if anything is left assault with spearmen. The cavalry hit from behind or use them to run down fleeing enemies. This works well so far but to be honest the enemy's troops so far are spearmen and other archers. No heavy infantry or heavy cavalry yet since its the beginning of the game still.

    Palermo and Tunis are Castles and everything else is city/towns. I got a good flow of cash so far. About 4k florin a turn in profit after expenses. I got trade agreements and alliances with most everyone else so far. hopefully I can get Venice out of the game before the HRE realizes I'm a major threat. Meanwhile I'm building up my economy.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Milan

    Just wanted to give a shout out to the Carroccio Standard unit that Milan has. When I first purchased it I can honestly say I had no idea what it was or what it did. When I built the building that allows for its recruitment I thought it was some type of infantry unit. Much to my surprise it was some trebuchet looking thing. I recruited one anyway and dragged it around like a child's toy. It was on hand when I assulted Bologna after the HRE got ex-commed where it stood outside the place for most of the battle since it wouldn't fit under the gate. But hey, it looked impressive. After that I moved it to Florence to sit around.

    As luck would have it soon Venice got the x-com and like a vulture I sent my spies into Venice to assure the gate would open and then the army from Florence as I felt it was a battle I could win. Unfortunately my movement points took me right next to Venice but I didn't have the last movement point to assault it. I was nervous when I hit the end turn button, and with good reason it seems, because I got sammiched with the Venice defenders and a medium sized stack behind me.

    This was not a battle I felt I had much chance in, think we were out numbered around 850-500. The only reason I bothered trying it anyway is the force behind me had to cross a bridge and I thought maybe that would help. I was sort of right, in that we were able to rout the guys on the bridge with reasonable casualties, but the guys in front of us still seemed to have us as they had 2 Generals/Bodyguard units along with the rest of the troops. I sent in my infantry and 2/3 units of them got to the "only a military genious could win this battle" point. At that monent a lightbulb went off if my head, thankfully I was a miltary genious, in so much as I actually read the unit description of the Standard, "hey this seems like a good point to use this crazy contraption." So I sent it in and even while the infantry was getting pounded on they held their nerve long enough to hold the enemy long enough for my xbow units to route them. There was quite the element of luck involved as both enemy generals got themselves killed fairly early while they were among the first of their units to go down. On the other hand my general's bodyguard unit went from 22 to 4 but my general was able to stay alive. He was only like a 2 star general so I really think the reason we didn't rout has more to do with the Standard than the general. Somehow the Standard got 2 experience out of that fight too so I guess it's also a killing machine. There's a battle marker right outside Venice now that proudly reminds me of that fight.
    Not to drift too far from the guide aspect that this is supposed to be about, but most of the posts have been spot on so there's not much to add, so I'll just repeat the things that I think were important in my game so far. Getting the two islands west of Italy are great, but the southern one seems to a magnet for Sicily and the Moor's attacks. Luckily I had the force that took Cagliari with sitting around since Sicily had already taken Tunis there wasn't much else around there to take so I figured I'd just keep them there until a crusade got called. Lo and behold I get attack after attack, they never have ome with a force that really has made me nervous yet, but I'm forced to keep a constant shuttle of troops back and forth to get retrained while avoiding enemy fleets.

    The other thing that really helps, and as you can see from my little story, is getting Bologna and Venice asap. I took Zagreb and was really sweating losing it since reenforcement would constantly be stepping over those places and killing relations and I didn't want to have to resort to mercenaries. Once the 2 factions got the boot I pounced, sadly I had to break my alliance with the HRE to get Bologna but a few turns later they surprisingly offered me another alliance which brought peace with France and Hungary. Hungary tried to take Zagreb and France had one of those senseless naval blockades start a war. Once you have Milan, Florence, Genoa, Bologna, and Venice you have a great safe zone. You can keep the minimum garrison in each city and keep a stack in the middle and you're one turn away from getting to any city in the area if need be.

    Having Rome to the south is quite the help but there is a pretty big downside in my game so far in that his Holiness won't stay in Rome. He's constantly milling around Genoa and Florence causing all my army movements to be messed up. I assume he's treated like a foreign army too and causing unrest but I'll have to check when I get back home for sure.

  26. #26
    Maximizer of Marginal Utility Member Snoil The Mighty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    @Gingivitis

    If you plan to stay in the Pope's good graces the entire game, the easiest thing to do is gift him military access at some point. I haven't thoroughly tested but if I recall rightly you need to be about 8 on your popescale readings to have him accept (I have had him turn it down when relations were lower and I think even as high as 7 results in refusal). Also it usually has given me those extra 2 points with back as well, making our relations perfect again which is a nice side bonus. At any rate once you do that there's no devastation from his wandering armies armies and I've had a much easier time getting around them.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Milan

    Many people have written excellent strategies while playing with the Milanese. I will just hand out a few tips that helped my tremendously. I play only VH/VH and IMHO this faction is the easiest after the English.

    The main thing is your economic strength. You do not need any castles. Just field more militia than your opponent and you are set. If there is some lack of armies, you can always hire some mercenary troops. If you have a nice backbone of settlements, you will not run out of money because you will be paying far less upkeep than many of your opponents.

    First thing I do with a Milan campaign is to conquer Florence. In one of my games Papal States conquered it which really pissed me off. With that you have three settlements in Italy.

    Next thing to do is to send a permanent diplomat to Rome and start offering some gift money every turn, and keep your relationship with them at perfect. Around this time conquer Venice and then move south to conquer Sicily. If you keep your relationship with Vatican at a perfect level, you will not be excommunicated.

    After this point my games differ from each other. Sometimes I set of to conquer Africa, sometimes France or HRE. One thing doesn't change though and that is a suitable army always conquers the island provinces.

    After you conquer those islands it is a wise choice to leave permanent diplomats near Byzantine, Egyptian and if situation demands it, Turkish capitals to keep your relationship with them at high levels so your east Mediterranean trade will not be disrupted with unnecessary blockades and wars.

    Sending a ship of 2-3 priests to Africa is a wise choice as those guys will become high piety in no time. If they turn into heretics... well that is a problem Moors will have to deal with. In one game I always had 7-9 cardinals that belonged to my faction. This guaranteed me the Papal elections which in turn meant less contribution to Vatican.

    As a general tip, do not leave your generals rotting in your cities. Kill of those rebels with adequate armies (not overwhelming armies so your troops and general will get more experience) and do not forget to build those watchtowers. It really does make a difference in your campaign when you have a good vision of your borders.

  28. #28
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    Besides all excellent posts and different strategies in this thread I might add a few quirks:
    *Buy Bologna from the HRE. On M/M it will take some 5-6k over 5-10 turns to get it.
    *Take Florence and launch a crusade on Tunis taking Corsica and Sardinia on the way.

  29. #29
    Master of Pikes Member KHPike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milan

    If possible, secure an alliance with the Papal States. This together with continued pacifying of the Pope will ensure you have a decent if somewhat temporary edge over your neighbours in the game.

    I also find Genoese Crossbows to be excellent headhunters. Thanks to the passive AI bug, I frequently spam 5 of them on the general's unit. This combined with the way the AI arranges its armies in the center helps rack up the casualties while creating havoc among the army's elite troops.
    Death solves all problems. No man, no problem. -Josef Stalin

  30. #30

    Default Re: Milan

    I’ve been playing with Milan lately, and they are probably my favorite Italian faction. This is what I have found most workable so far. Sorry if I repeat things others have said.

    Overview:

    The Milanese are in my opinion the most Italian of the Italian factions, in that they are the least reliant on castle troops and have the best militia.

    If you like crossbows, you’ll love Milan. The Genoese crossbow is the best crossbow unit in the game. It has a very long range, and is very powerful. In addition they are quite effective in hand-to-hand combat, meaning you can safely field huge numbers of then without worrying about being overwhelmed by a strong mêlée infantry force (large cavalry forces would still be a problem, but could be dealt with). The crossbow militia is almost as good, so they can be used in professional offensive armies. They are also cheap and expendable.

    They have all the standard European castle units (sergeant spearmen/armored sergeants, mailed/feudal knights), except instead of chivalric knights they have men-at-arms. This means that although you should probably base your army off militia, you can still use castle produced armies if you want to.

    You’ll want to make it a point to tech up to Famiglia Ducale (available at the highest town hall building) and Genoese crossbowmen (castle version, available at fortress, with I believe a level three archery range). In the tests I’ve done Famiglia Ducale beat all French heavy cavalry except Lancers.

    Strategy:

    War with Sicily is inevitable, and Sicily in on your strategic “back door”, so I would make a point of destroying them as the first thing. In order to do this you must secure the support of the Pope. Send your diplomat right away and offer an alliance with trade rights and map information. This should give you a good favor rating which will be important in getting him to look the other way when you savagely and unprovokedly attack Sicily.

    From the first turn you should be assembling as large a force as you can muster quickly, using mercenaries if necessary. Then send your army on board your fleet towards Palermo, bringing your spy along.

    The Sicilians will probably be sailing to Tunis with their main army. This should leave Palermo and Naples lightly defended. Land off the shore of Palermo and have your spy infiltrate the castle. He may fail in his infiltration or may fail to open the gates, if so it’s still OK. Assault the castle rapidly, and then leave only a small garrison. However DO NOT attack until you have a high favor with the Pope. You may need to make a “donation” to the Vatican to assure this.

    Once you have Palermo immediately sail to Naples and assault it in the same manner.

    Crusader trickery: at some point, either before or after taking Palermo, you may want to ask for a crusade against Tunis. This has several advantages
    1) It will prevent the Pope from calling a crusade against you in the event you do get excommunicated.
    2) It will help rebuild your Papal favor after crushing Sicily (something the Pope will ask you not to do).
    3) It will give you the advantages of crusading (experience, character traits etc.) without leaving your general sector or getting embroiled in war with eastern powers.
    4) It will give you breathing time before crusades are called against eastern targets (which can be expensive).

    Do not join the crusade until you have taken Naples and eliminated the Sicilians.

    This way you can rapidly remove the faction which would otherwise be a constant thorn in your side quickly, and still have the Pope love you!

    Speed is of the essence here, as you want to eliminate the Sicilians before they can expand beyond Palermo and Naples.

    With command of Naples, Palermo, Milan, Genoa, Tunis and perhaps Florence, you should be making loads of money. Now send a diplomat to Bologna and ask the Kaiser to give up the city for six payments of 5000 florins. With some bargaining they should agree, and you want the city without going to war with the Reich.

    Now you probably go after Venice. With control of all of Italy (except Rome) you can move in any direction you want.

    Diplomacy:

    You may want to ally yourself with the HRE before asking for Bologna, as this should make him more likely to agree. On the other hand if he refuses you may want to take it by force, in which case having been allied would have been a mistake. Ideally he will agree, in which case being his ally will be in your best interest. If you choose to make this alliance, try to make it while still at peace with Sicily.

    Tactics:

    The core of your army is your crossbowmen, of which you should have anywhere from six to twelve in a full stack (although twelve in extreme).
    They are very competent in mêlée, so keep them in front with skirmish mode off. Behind them have a solid line of infantry, and cavalry behind the infantry. You may want to include a Carroccio standard and artillery.

    The idea is to force the opponent into a dilemma: either stand there and get shot to pieces, or advance. If they advance they will more than likely not advance as a solid line (even as a human player it is hard to get your units to advanced side by side, they usually stagger), and thus the leading units will be caught in crossfire. Even if they can get past the hail of bolts and line of sword wielding crossbowmen, they will have to face a line of spearmen, by this time demoralized and beaten up. If they charge with cavalry, the crossbowmen will take the momentum, allowing your spearmen to do their stabby work.

    In addition you may send some crossbows to the enemies flank and put down enfilade.

    The cavalry can be used for flanking, but its main role is chasing routers. However keep at least three or four in a stack for tactical flexibility.

    I hope this is clear.

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