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Thread: Portugal

  1. #31
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by seari
    I'm playing 'the crusader' with portugal.
    The first turns, i have sent all my armies to egypt to conquer Antioch. The princess went to the Pope to give him some money, and start a crusade. When I arrived there, i played the game rather chivalrous, not starting the war on egypt and turkey.
    Now i'm 50 turns in the game, i've got almost whole the Middle east, except Dongola in the south. My northern border is antioch-edessa-mosul-baghdad.
    I'm preparing for the Mongols to kill them with my bloody jinetes!!
    Oh yeah, i gave al my areas in Iberia to the pope when i had conquered Antioch

    and excuse me for my English, I'm from Belgium.
    The only problem is that the Portuguese need to hold Granada (I think) as well as Jerusalem in order to win the game, so if you gave Granada to the Pope, you will have to eventually take it away from him.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  2. #32

    Default Re: Portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg
    The only problem is that the Portuguese need to hold Granada (I think) as well as Jerusalem in order to win the game, so if you gave Granada to the Pope, you will have to eventually take it away from him.
    I left for antioch on turn 2 and so i couldn't give more than only lisbon and pamplona to the Pope when i reached antioch. So the moors are normally still holding granada.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Portugal

    Am trying an "African" Strategy with the Portugese on VH atm. At the beginning of the game I moved all forces from pamplona to lisbon. Made an alliance with the Spanish then made a fort next to the south bridge of lisbon territory. Bought all mercs possible. Spammed as many militia troops as possible from lisbon into the fort. Took the pamplona/lisbon/merc army and put em on a boat...sent em to Marrakesh.

    Result:

    Alliance with Spain
    War with the Moors
    Loss of Pamplona (civil due to troops not bein there, I had sold all buildings too.)
    The capture of Marrakesh (converted to a castle to recoup Pamplona)
    The capture of Timbuktu
    The capture of Alguin

    Overall I find that even though it took me abit longer to capture the 1st territories, (about 17 turns) the empire is now much stronger for it and my main enemy (Moors) are now fractured and weak. The Moors sued for peace and are currently paying me for it. The Spanish are fighting the French. The Pope still likes me. Idk how long this utopia will last though....but I hope until I can get some decent military at least.... Can anyone tell me why even the militia are 1/2 as good as everyone elses?

  4. #34

    Default Re: Portugal

    Edit: The Spanish betrayed me soon after ..so I destroyed them. Now I control the Iberian peninsula save for pamplona (reconquered) and valencia ..I gave those territories to the papacy. So I now have a "fortress Iberia" since noone will attack the popes lands coupled with the land bridge to africa (the moors are no moor!) Now my peace loving Portugese can begin their economic supremacy at last.

    This was my 1st time playing the portugese... (Always have used Spanish or someone else) I wanted to have an african/new world faction to mess around with (Conquistadors and Sudanese Tribesmen ftw!)

    I find the portugese armies are not too hard to get used too esp if you have used the spanish or the russians alot since many units are skirmisher types. Eventually by the late feudal era or so the Portugese start looking like e1 else DFK etc.. and by the Late period they are stronger than many...soo all in all not too bad and a nice change from the usual

    x archers
    x swordsmen
    x spearmen

    I always have considered skirmishers to be primal and primitive..indicitive of a dying era and a savage mentality but I must say that x6 Alguhvars throwing spears is a beautiful sight the only real issue I had with the early armies is that you have no real "staying" power with most of your forces. Since they are so pitiful I was forced to stagger them 2 town militia or 1/2 spears so the front line was quite small. Buit once again no real difference from the Spanish or Russians as far as strategy goes.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Portugal

    I've found Jinettes to be usefil in the late game as well.Recently Denmark invaded and sieged my fortress of Pamplona with at least 5 stacks of War clerics,dis feudal knights and crossbowmen/handgunners. I used my jinettes to get behind his lines and fill the War Clerics with javelins,to neutrelize them before they could do any damage.

  6. #36
    Member Member Ozzman1O1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portugal

    I disagree with starting with spain,and foccusing on africa,ive just conquered all the western map starting with taking large moorish cities,like marrikesh and cordoba, making it really easy to take out spain and france.
    :

  7. #37

    Default Re: Portugal

    I'm now 52 turns away from the end of a roller-coasterride Portugal long campaign H/H, what a great faction the portugese are! I like their retro style. and most of all, I like Jinetes. Viva Jinetos!

    what I learned about Jinetes

    1. Jinetes are troops without equal, in the right numbers they can handle everything from light foot to the mongol's Bodyguards. If you need troops to face the mongols? "spam_jinetes" is the "code". Get a full stack of Jinetes against one of theirs, and you're set (don't auto-calc, it's a cool kind of battle to play)... a half-jinete, half-infantry should work if you want to take the fight to them and actually conquer some of their settlements. Also, if you go to town in France with your expansion, you'll eventually get into conflict with the scruffulous Danes (sp? it's what all other nations say about them) who have no light cavalry worthy of the name and field mostly infantry.

    2. because of their versatility they're an ideal rebel-hunting unit. nice for general-training too.

    3. a mixed army however, is far more fun to play with when facing catholics. i didn't need much more than 10 mixed infantry 50% swordsmen/fk, 20% missile, 30% pike (machiavelli's art of war->it works) and fill the rest of the stack with Jinetes. In battle the jinetes skirmish ahead. I like to send them in close immediately where they throw their javelins and cause disorder or enough annoyance to make the enemy advance. When out of ammo, they're either held back to make flank attacks, or to destroy the artillery should there be any... if you're using half a stack of jinetes, pick a few good targets who will give your infantry trouble, like artillery and other cavalry. leave spears to the swordmen.. It's a good idea to get them to the enemy's rear while he advances, Harass them.
    Almugavirs are a good supporting infantry unit for Jinetes. they're also decent castle-wall defenders.

    4. Cantabrian Circle still rocks (played RTW before).

    5. disable skirmish mode before charging into close combat.

    Factional:

    1. the princess to Spain -and there could be money in this- and in my game, they chose to expand beyond the pyrenees to Bordeaux and Wales (of all places!) because they were the family in-law and allies on good to outstanding relations... untill my nobles required Toledo...

    2. If you take out the moors before Spain attacks you, and spain does not take Valencia and goes across the pyrenees you can handle them easily, so blitz those moors. focus on the military building during the 1st generation and get the economy going when Iberia is yours.

    3. I should have turteled in Europe and expanded through Africa I think, 52 turns left and the only anti-islam crusade was to Antioch when it was still rebel (others: Genoa, Milan, Tunis, Naples, Riga, Inverness). I should petition another this evening. Due to my grand involvement as champion of the pope i focussed on that front and am now the grand power in Western europe, holding the iberian peninsula, most of France (all but angers), italy except rome and genoa (papal states), the original Venetian continental possessions and budapest. The objective town of Jerusalem still eludes me (had afrika up to alexandria, but the region was a backwater to me)... At the time I am at war with the remnants of the former French dynasty (I have Reims, I am the annointed king-roleplay), the Danes just struck and got excommed and the English betrayed me. The mongols are banging at my door and the Timurids are almost at constatinople, while the mongols threaten the Papal seat of Durazzo (!)

    4. With the Papal States being your best friend and all, you need them to pack a punch so they don't nag for stuff. when I gave them Genoa after a succesfull crusade (to genoa, yes), they took Dijon (which I traded for Milan), when I gave them sacked, rebelious constantinople for Milan to up my favour for some leeway with handling France, they became a power in the east and took much of the Balkans and a good amount of lands in Turkey... I think it was the pope who took out Hungary. He was a very usefull ally on the seas too. at the moment, the papal glory on the hellaspont proved to be short lived, the mongols pushed him back to durazzo. Most popes have been Portuguese to, the thing I did do in Africa was build priests. there are a lot of heretics to burn over there. In addition, there are a lot of rebels too, so it's a nice place to drill your Jinetes for a good crusade... which is the way to go next time. If all of Spain is yours, turtle in europe and become an african power. The Sicilians will be excommunicated anyway, like all Italians but the Pope himself.

    downside is the fact that the pope can then make more inquisitors faster, but I never had real problems with them (the bagged some priests, nothing important) because of the perfect relationship Portugal had with the pope. another downside is the increase in Papal States Cardinals. If the pope's your friend it's perfect, as you can cooperate to keep one of you both on the seat... and the pope should be your friend after what you did for him. keep relations perfect, ensure numerous cardinals for your most trusted ally (screw all others, if the rep with the Pope is Perfect, he is all ally you need).

    5. the plague ain't so bad. due to the resources of 3 factions (my own, the Moors, the Spanish), I could still overpower my European enemies the French and Milanese shortly after the Black death with the surviving troops untill the pope said "when" (he still does that...)

    6. the America's are far... the first real expeditions is bound to arrive though.

    7. I'm going to get me Jerusalem now, before the official game-time ends. I still have 52 turns to go so I should get another big fleet into the med and a few field armies with dashing generals and make another trip to my long-time ally Egypt... with no crusades against them, we're still allied! it's been more than 3 centuries no less!

    8. spam_jinetos


  8. #38
    War Story Recorder Senior Member Maltz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portugal

    This is my favrotie opening movies on VH/VH. It seems to hurt diplomacy though.

    Turn 1: Gather all forces from Lisban and take Cordoba. Use the spy to open the gate. Gather all forces from the other town to proceed to Leon. Proceed to block the straight to prevent the first wave of Moors coming.

    Turn 2: Gather all forces from Cordoba (leave 2 for the garrison) and attack Toledo.

    Turn 3: Besiege Leon. Next turn take it.

    Turn 5: Besiege Toledo. Spy opens the gate.

    So by turn 5 all major threats on Iberia is neutralized, and you have 5 of the best developed cities. Pope rating is 4 crosses from the bottom.

    Troubles:

    - I always get an annoying landing of the Sicilians (half stack) at turn 6.

  9. #39

    Angry Re: Portugal

    Why play Portugal when you can be Timurids?
    Tamerlane

  10. #40

    Default Re: Portugal

    After reading the strategies here, I decided to make my opening moves to take out Spain first. Even before going for Zaragoza, I brought my army from Pamplona into Toledo, and the army in Lisbon up to Leon and sieged. By turn 4/5, Spain is gone, and no exco warning from Pope either. Then Cordoba is sieged in about turn 8, about to fall with land bridge blockaded. Granada should fall after that with a small garrison there now. When taking Toledo from Spain, I did it under heavy rain cover to protect better from the arrows.

    After getting Iberia, I'm not sure what should be my next move. I've played as Moors before, and it is very tempting to go from Pamplona-Zaragoza to Bordeaux-Toulouse. Now you get two castles as border provinces instead of a city and a castle. Also neither is in Iberia, so you have a line of defence behind you. Yet when I played as the Moors, I would often lose Toulouse to some massive Milanese or French army. AI doesn't like you being so secure. See my ideal thing to do after having Iberia and the entire Western half of Africa is to go take the British isles, and maybe Scandinavia also.

    Maybe this game as Porto...I'll take Bordeaux and Toulouse and then give them to the Pope.

  11. #41
    Member Member Shigemasa Oyamada's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portugal

    This is my first post on this website's forum, and I decided to do so in the MTW2 section since its my favorite of the series. I've done all the factions at least a few times, and I decided to do a Portuguese campaign in which I took all of Iberia, conquer North Africa and then wait for the new world. I'm currently on turn 57, just starting some forays into North Africa from Marrakesh. Generally I'm not too agressive, so usually the only wars I start are for rushing a nearby faction or from Crusades/Jihads. This sort of game with a very powerful late-game faction suits me


    First thing I did was what seems to be the convential rush tactic for the Portuguese, rushing Toledo. However, instead of focusing all my soldiers at Toledo I sent my Pamplona army north to Leon to save time. The gamble paid off as encountered none of the stacks nearby Toledo, allowing me to simultaneously take both Spanish settlements and wipe them from the face of Iberia. The Pope at first didn't take to this very well and His Holiness excommunicated me. However as soon as the Spanish were destroyed I was reconciled for some reason .

    Cordoba was my next target, falling with minimal fuss (I had blocked Gibraltar with my ships, something that I didn't know one could do until I read that was possible on this forum) and Grenada followed suit. Zaragoza was overwhelmed by my stack of Lusitianian Javelinmen and Jinetes, who then turned to destroy the Rebel remnants of Spain. My army in the south moved on to Valencia, but his most holy Pope decided the the Crusades were my true calling. He demanded I join in on the ride to Jerusalem or face the Spanish (Portuguese?) inquisition. I didn't care about him excommunicating me, so I thought I wasn't gonna let some guy in a pointy hat with a Penchant for calling random (often important) familiy members the defilers of God's will hold me hostage. I needed all my troops so I decided an Assassin to end his name-calling would be my solution.


    The inquisitor showed up in his white garments ready to have them covered in the ashes of the unfaithful, but apparently he decided some other locale was in more desparate need of his services and completely disappeared (he moved into the fog and never returned ) without so much as even gracing the air with the smell of burnt heretics.

    Meanwhile, my conquering of Iberia was completed . I consolidated my position for awhile ( I had converted Granada and Valencia to cities long ago, all I really need is Toledo and Pamplona). I had already mapped out all my settlement's futures. Lisbon unsurprisingly would be my Port of riches and home of the Merchant's guild hopefully. Leon was to be my Theologian refuge, again hoping to get HQ since the priests that come out do so practically as Cardinals. Corduba is my Assassin training camp, Valencia my re-education center for turning unwanted thieves into spies of the state, Toledo my Swordsmithery, Pamplona my Horse genetics labratory and Zaragoza will be my Alchemist Capital.

    France to the north, as I well know from past games, tends to get quite envious of Portuguese control of Iberia. Seeing a full stack comprised of Mailed Knights and Mounted Sergeants at the NE corner of the Toulouse region ( Pays de'Orc in NTW), I decided some kind of wall was necessary. This wall, the wall of faith, consisted of Bordeaux and Toulouse (which I blitzed) under the control of the Papacy. It was a triple win for me, since it raised my relations with the Pope to Perfect, prevented the French or anyone on the continent from attacking me by land. Lastly, it was easier to keep contact with those settlements than Rome, so my diplomats never have to go far to distribute my gifts of goodwill to his most holy Pope.


    And now I started the second step of my planned game: become Overlord of western North Africa. To jumpstart my invasion I convinced the Pope to call the Holy Chastisement of Crusader armies upon Marrakesh (to which many European nations responded). Marrakesh proved poorly defended and I occupied it in one turn with my catapults. The heir of the Moors rose with an army from Timbuktu to challenge me in the Atlas mountains, but in vain as my supieror Crusaders made mincemeat of the Javelinmen and Spear Militia. I am currently sieging Algiers with my Lusitanian Javelinmen/ Jinete army, and my Crusader army marches ever so closer through the unrelenting Sahara towards Timbuktu as we speak.


    Some notes about the units: Jinetes of course are Awesome cavalry, using their ranged attack to Shishkebob knights and charging the Militias that comprise the early armies. However the pathing always gets me, ensuing that even skirmishing against melee units resulted in a couple casualties. Almughavars have always been a favorite of mine, throwing Javelins to perforate armored foes and pummeling early units in melees. I'm looking forward to getting the Late-game units. i'm one building away from Aventuros in Toledo. Portuguese Arquebusiers are good. being a pretty balanced unit, but the long range of Musketeers is too good for me to give up (They're pratically snipers! Anyways, Aventuros give them a wall of steel to hide behind when enemies get close). Portugal is one of my favorite factions, and I hope you enjoyed reading my post as much as I enjoyed making it
    It is possible to be too much smarter than your opponent. If you give credit for more subtlety than he has, he can achieve tactical surprise by doing the obvious.

  12. #42
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portugal

    Note to self (and others):

    When thumping Spain out early in a "blitz," equip the toledo strike force with TWO ballistae units. If the interior gate towers burn the first unit (which happened to me) while the gate is only 60% wrecked, you lose and are threatened with immediate excommunication. Only a one-turn "fait accompli" can avoid this.

    You can certainly continue to fight, remove Spain, and then move forward under Papal hatred, but it will slow you down a lot. On VH/M I was winning time and again, but had so many Catholic enemies that I could barely re-tool for the next batch in time to knock them down. Buidling under these circumstances is slow (and I lost my chance at a Portugese Pope by one vote....). By the time I turned the corner and begain to really develop the power to expand, I was already facing cannon towers.....

    Note:

    Late Portugese armies have a good troop selection. One of the better pike units in the game, sword militias for defense, basilisk artillery, and powerful caracks. Only comparative weakness is castle swords -- dismounted feudals are all you get, no chivalrics or anything else. To be fair, this isn't a dire limitation.

    Add in some merc longbow and hackbuts and you have a nice mix.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 10-12-2010 at 12:29.
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