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Thread: map

  1. #31

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
    You are correct about italian cities,london,paris even for some ex roman cities and forts...Constantinople in 1000ad had 600000 population and it was only one of the huge urban centers throuch out the east...European cities could NOT habidant over 100000 (if you are wright) because they had not what they need to...clean water mainly and health fasilities swers for examble.Exept the italian and the ex roman cities no other european one had such comforts maybe because in the catholicism was blasfime for people to clean them selfs...See the famous renaisance pallaces,they had no toilets...If the royal members were like this imagine the peasantry...When spanish took over Granada they destoyed most of those health fassilities...That was the main deferance between eastmen and westmen...Arabs translate all ancient sripts and continued the roman way of city structhures..,When the crusaders ocupayed Jerusalem massacered almost all the population cristian and muslim and desroyed all it's fasillities because they could NOT oparate them."HISTORY OG BALTWIN"
    1. the reinessance palaces didn't have toilets because in this times, the toilet an invention that was not still invented them!
    2. I read a book about it and it says that in the 11th century Europe started using advanced medicine, they started building hospital and they were the first ones to do so, in spain there was a medical testing for all the citizens once a month!
    3. I also read a book about that and I discoverd that constantinople had 200,000 in the middle ages
    4. Paris was one of the most advanced cities in europe, with a wide number of people and public buildings and I am sure that it got 100,000 people in that time

  2. #32

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    1. the reinessance palaces didn't have toilets because in this times, the toilet an invention that was not still invented them!
    2. I read a book about it and it says that in the 11th century Europe started using advanced medicine, they started building hospital and they were the first ones to do so, in spain there was a medical testing for all the citizens once a month!
    3. I also read a book about that and I discoverd that constantinople had 200,000 in the middle ages
    4. Paris was one of the most advanced cities in europe, with a wide number of people and public buildings and I am sure that it got 100,000 people in that time

    ??????????

    1. The toilet itself was found in palaces of ancient Greeks and many others (I can't believe what we're discussing right now...)
    2. So 11th century EUROPE INVENTED hospitals? Did they not exist in the Muslim world long before that? And weren't these European hospitals meant to house only plague victims? And the advanced medicine usually included ingredients such as 'unicorn's horn powder' (that's from the London plague in the 1600's)
    3. What book? Great discovery, Columbus.
    4. Sure, it was big and great and center of known world, etc but WHAT makes you so sure it was 100k?
    I need scissors! 61!!

  3. #33

    Default Re: map

    King Orko you are extremely biased and a blind fanboy. learn2/history
    Also, last year i did a project about hospitals in the Byz. empire. Sure, they didnt have scalpels and modern drugs, but you would be amazed by the level of organization these hospitals had. They had wings for different illnesses, wings for the elderly and the staff/patient ratio was 3:1 if i remember correctly, which is outstanding! Historians say that modern hospitals have their routes on those byz hospitals.
    Last edited by Sandouras; 07-03-2007 at 02:37.

  4. #34

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by WarHeart88
    ??????????

    1. The toilet itself was found in palaces of ancient Greeks and many others (I can't believe what we're discussing right now...)
    2. So 11th century EUROPE INVENTED hospitals? Did they not exist in the Muslim world long before that? And weren't these European hospitals meant to house only plague victims? And the advanced medicine usually included ingredients such as 'unicorn's horn powder' (that's from the London plague in the 1600's)
    3. What book? Great discovery, Columbus.
    4. Sure, it was big and great and center of known world, etc but WHAT makes you so sure it was 100k?
    1. these toilets were just holes where you craped in and not truely toilets, and these toilets existed in the middle ages.
    2. yes Europe invented hospitals and the great center of medicine ever was in the city of Salerno, That is in EUROPE
    3. belive me
    4. the book I read

  5. #35
    Megas Domestikos Member AnthoniusII's Avatar
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    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    1. these toilets were just holes where you craped in and not truely toilets, and these toilets existed in the middle ages.
    2. yes Europe invented hospitals and the great center of medicine ever was in the city of Salerno, That is in EUROPE
    3. belive me
    4. the book I read
    Why my dear felow can you not admit that in ancient,roman and medeival ages europe was far behind in medicine,health facilities,state organisation and many things more,than greek,roman,midleeast,chinesse and other civilisations...Alicarnasus (today under turkish rule in the west coast of asia minor) had swers build in 8th century bc and are still in use...Ancient people like egyptians,persians ,greeks and many others payed to much attention to public health.After all all doctors of the world still vouh on Ippocrates... Afcourse Romans took the technology of health ages beyond...Byzantines used and developed this tech.Arabs after they conquered ex roman and ex byzantine provinses adapted the culthure they found in them,simply because they were open minded and had no coblex of superiority...See the islamic cities of toledo,cordoba,granada and compeare them with european cities of their time...If europe knows something obout ancient culture,philosophy and technology is becaouse of the arabs and their weal for knowlege. So my friend be open minded your self.You might know something more...

  6. #36

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
    Why my dear felow can you not admit that in ancient,roman and medeival ages europe was far behind in medicine,health facilities,state organisation and many things more,than greek,roman,midleeast,chinesse and other civilisations...Alicarnasus (today under turkish rule in the west coast of asia minor) had swers build in 8th century bc and are still in use...Ancient people like egyptians,persians ,greeks and many others payed to much attention to public health.After all all doctors of the world still vouh on Ippocrates... Afcourse Romans took the technology of health ages beyond...Byzantines used and developed this tech.Arabs after they conquered ex roman and ex byzantine provinses adapted the culthure they found in them,simply because they were open minded and had no coblex of superiority...See the islamic cities of toledo,cordoba,granada and compeare them with european cities of their time...If europe knows something obout ancient culture,philosophy and technology is becaouse of the arabs and their weal for knowlege. So my friend be open minded your self.You might know something more...
    From my impression it seems that you try to argue with me and take this too serious. I don't say that you are completely wrong, I knoe that roman, Arab and Greek civilizations were advanced I don't say they weren;t, I zust try to prove you that the european middle ages were not the most poor ages of all times and that only bad things happend than and nothing good happend, that all of the populationwas stupid and they didn't know anything about managemennt, medicine or science, because you think so.

  7. #37
    Megas Domestikos Member AnthoniusII's Avatar
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    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    From my impression it seems that you try to argue with me and take this too serious. I don't say that you are completely wrong, I knoe that roman, Arab and Greek civilizations were advanced I don't say they weren;t, I zust try to prove you that the european middle ages were not the most poor ages of all times and that only bad things happend than and nothing good happend, that all of the populationwas stupid and they didn't know anything about managemennt, medicine or science, because you think so.
    I have nothing personal with anyone...In these forums we all try to make the GAME we like a bit better.No human race is stupid that's for sure.All humans have their own share for humanity's development.As for the history we all must remember what Thoucidides(the father of historians)said... History is a number of facts that none can change...but if someone wishes to know them can not simply have only one view,even after 100 views a historian is just closer to the truth... PS This series of games were a good reason for all of us to learn something more and we just share our knowlege.Have fun

  8. #38

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
    I have nothing personal with anyone...In these forums we all try to make the GAME we like a bit better.No human race is stupid that's for sure.All humans have their own share for humanity's development.As for the history we all must remember what Thoucidides(the father of historians)said... History is a number of facts that none can change...but if someone wishes to know them can not simply have only one view,even after 100 views a historian is just closer to the truth... PS This series of games were a good reason for all of us to learn something more and we just share our knowlege.Have fun
    OK so it is fine now

  9. #39
    Member Member Pablo Sanchez's Avatar
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    Default Re: map

    Looking over the map a little more, I'm finding things that I'm sort of mystified by. For example, why does Livonia have three provinces, and Scotland four, while the Low Countries have only two?

    Also, while some areas (Hungary and the Balkans, British Isles, Southern Italy) look very good viz. the province boundaries, other areas (mainly the HRE) look very odd. Stuff like tearing up the Tirol and Switzerland into a bunch of pieces and distributing them to neighboring provinces, giving Ostfriesland to the Netherlands, and in general some very oddly shaped provinces in the HRE that I can't really understand the reasoning for. Everything in the map looks fairly good, apart from the HRE (and the Algeria province which reaches down into interior and looks really weird).

    EDIT:
    Nevermind, I did a google image search and I guess the map of the HRE is being based directly on the official division of the Empire as here. In fact that might be the exact map they're using. I just disagree with it because the way the provinces were officially set up was not how they were actually divided in practice.
    Last edited by Pablo Sanchez; 07-03-2007 at 20:39.
    "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."
    --Leon Trotsky

  10. #40

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    1. these toilets were just holes where you craped in and not truely toilets, and these toilets existed in the middle ages.
    2. yes Europe invented hospitals and the great center of medicine ever was in the city of Salerno, That is in EUROPE
    3. belive me
    4. the book I read

    I don't know which book you read , but i would sugest you to find different author. That one sunds like someone that had all things twisted

    Did you ever had chance to se Roman toiletes?They were not just holes, they had runing watter in it. After fall or WRE, barbarians (Saxons, Allemanni,Goths,etc...)neglected almost everything that was unknown and new for them(civilized) .They kept only their tribal ideas(hence fiefdoms and petty internal fights)

    Universities and hospitals were invention of Ancient world (not just romans).
    Only ones that kept them alive were ERE and eastern nations.While in Europe ,when they needed to go , they would grab first tree.

    Hospital and University in Baghdad or Cordoba (for example) were established before any in Europe.They were part of great mosques, but they still existed.
    Soap was used by Easterners 500 years before Europe,they only started to use it(in very limited way) after First crusade.Constantinopole had runing watter , public baths and libraries till it's fall.While at same time London had open sewage in middle of the streets till 18-19 century(yuck).

    It was noted by catholic monks visiting Moorish Cordoba , that just one household library there contained more books then whole Western Europe at that time.

    And eye surgeries(or any complicated) were common in those same areas way before medieval Europe even knew about them. Not to mention that in East there were using some version of checking accounts already.

    I am not gonna even start how much advanced Chinese were in comparison to Europe at that time.
    Last edited by mlp071; 07-04-2007 at 17:13.

  11. #41

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by mlp071
    I don't know which book you read , but i would sugest you to find different author. That one sunds like someone that had all things twisted

    Did you ever had chance to se Roman toiletes?They were not just holes, they had runing watter in it. After fall or WRE, barbarians (Saxons, Allemanni,Goths,etc...)neglected almost everything that was unknown and new for them(civilized) .They kept only their tribal ideas(hence fiefdoms and petty internal fights)

    Universities and hospitals were invention of Ancient world (not just romans).
    Only ones that kept them alive were ERE and eastern nations.While in Europe ,when they needed to go , they would grab first tree.

    Hospital and University in Baghdad or Cordoba (for example) were established before any in Europe.They were part of great mosques, but they still existed.
    Soap was used by Easterners 500 years before Europe,they only started to use it(in very limited way) after First crusade.Constantinopole had runing watter , public baths and libraries till it's fall.While at same time London had open sewage in middle of the streets till 18-19 century(yuck).

    It was noted by catholic monks visiting Moorish Cordoba , that just one household library there contained more books then whole Western Europe at that time.

    And eye surgeries(or any complicated) were common in those same areas way before medieval Europe even knew about them. Not to mention that in East there were using some version of checking accounts already.

    I am not gonna even start how much advanced Chinese were in comparison to Europe at that time.
    The book is not wrong, you are wrong!
    The liibrary of Cordoba had more books than all of existing ones in Europe?!!! Come on! to do that you had to build a two miles high buildings that has 10 miles each side! it is impposible!

    medieval toilets were just like Roman ones!
    So you are right, the Europeans didn't invent hospital, but they invented universitys for sure, they wrote in wikipedia that the first universities were estabelished in Europe, in Bulgaria, and than in Constantinople, than in Salerno, Bologna(that is consided as one of the most greatest univeritys in the world), than in Paris, than in Oxford. they didn't say in Cordoba! do you know what was the size of hotel dieu in Paris that was founded in the yrar 653?

  12. #42

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    The book is not wrong, you are wrong!

    Thanks for that one, I needed a good laugh... Seriously, though, if your primary sources are wikipedia and a book whose name or author you consistently avoid to expose, you really won't get anyone to believe those claims, completely ridiculous or not (and they pretty much are).
    I need scissors! 61!!

  13. #43

    Default Re: map

    Well according to same Wikipedia(which is not most accurate resource , btw ):

    - if you don't count Plato's school as university , although by size it was
    - University in Nalanda( todays India) 450AD
    - University in Constantinopole 5th century AD
    - University of Al-Karaouine (Fez , Morroco) 859AD
    - Al-Azhar University around (Egypt) 9th century

    then you have Ohrid , and then Salerno.....


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...t_universities

    Last 2 (Al-Karaouine,Al-Azhar) are oldest universites that are still working.So 4 oldest ones are not in Europe , except one in Constantinopole

    Most renown in Christian world was Bologna and in Islamic world is Al-Azhar (even today). So "most renown" term is also relative from religion point.

    Please remember that Church was trying to supress any knowledge of writing for centuries, trying to keep it limited to clergy only.Thats why there was not to many books in Europe att.While in East at same time written word was fully encouraged.

    And most of European knowledge came from research and discoveries made in so-called "Islamic golden age " that lasted from 622 to 1258, when was destroyed by Mongols.That knowledge triggered Renaissance period later on.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

    Just to make it clear i am originally from Europe (in USA now)and i was born and lived near relatively close to some of those European universities.

    And regarding Baghdad Library :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom


    Either way we are getting way off the topic of this thread .You can open another thread for this discussion. I don't mind going there and discussing it further
    Last edited by mlp071; 07-04-2007 at 21:14.

  14. #44

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by WarHeart88
    a book whose name or author you consistently avoid to expose
    What????!!!!!!!!
    I am very sad for that you can't read, my fellow

  15. #45

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    What????!!!!!!!!
    I am very sad for that you can't read, my fellow
    For the love of... What kind of an illiterate idiot are you? Either we're all blind or you're trying to make a fool of us all. Where did you name the book and the author? In every post you refer to it as "the book". You're just being obnoxious, SO CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND HERE?
    I need scissors! 61!!

  16. #46

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by WarHeart88
    For the love of... What kind of an illiterate idiot are you? Either we're all blind or you're trying to make a fool of us all. Where did you name the book and the author? In every post you refer to it as "the book". You're just being obnoxious, SO CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND HERE?
    Well, you didn't ask anything about it and how can I avoid to expose something like that? why? you didn't ask! you didn't tried to say it to me in other words! Iv'e mentionned it only two times so consistently trying to avoid it? come on!
    and for that you won't say anymore that I am "Consistently trying to avoid" it, the name of the book is "the age of faith" and it got several authors

  17. #47

    Default Re: map

    Orko, how old are you and where are you from?

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandouras
    Orko, how old are you and where are you from?
    I am 18 years old from Israel

  19. #49

    Default Re: map

    I am 18 years
    It shows.

  20. #50

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandouras
    It shows.
    A very adult thing to say :/

  21. #51
    Megas Domestikos Member AnthoniusII's Avatar
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    Default Re: map

    My dear friend King Orgo i have an age twice as yours.My advice to you is again the same...BE OPENMINDED...Don't use your nation's hates to learn history...For examble after emperor Heracleios defeated Sassanids Persians he banished all jwes from the reagion you now call Israel then part of east Roman empire becouase the helped persians to capture Jerusalim...Your people found sellter to gothic spain that time.When arabs invated spain they didn't heart any jwes untill the spanish reqonquista when they forced to leave spain by the cristians.That time the turkish sultan Suleiman the mugnifisent allowed your people to setlle in greek teritories and sities such Thessalonike ,Constantinople and many others.For this the local populations saw your people as invadors that help the other invadors to encure their occupation...ASK YOUR ELDERS OBOUT YOUR OWN HISTORY!!YOUR NATION'S WORST ENNEMIES WERE NOT ARABS!!!

  22. #52

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
    My dear friend King Orgo i have an age twice as yours.My advice to you is again the same...BE OPENMINDED...Don't use your nation's hates to learn history...For examble after emperor Heracleios defeated Sassanids Persians he banished all jwes from the reagion you now call Israel then part of east Roman empire becouase the helped persians to capture Jerusalim...Your people found sellter to gothic spain that time.When arabs invated spain they didn't heart any jwes untill the spanish reqonquista when they forced to leave spain by the cristians.That time the turkish sultan Suleiman the mugnifisent allowed your people to setlle in greek teritories and sities such Thessalonike ,Constantinople and many others.For this the local populations saw your people as invadors that help the other invadors to encure their occupation...ASK YOUR ELDERS OBOUT YOUR OWN HISTORY!!YOUR NATION'S WORST ENNEMIES WERE NOT ARABS!!!
    1. Arabs today are my worst nation's enemires.
    2. I know everything you say and it doesn't have anything with what I said
    3. I am openminded, but I can't accept anything that other people say when it is about history.

  23. #53
    Megas Domestikos Member AnthoniusII's Avatar
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    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    1. Arabs today are my worst nation's enemires.
    2. I know everything you say and it doesn't have anything with what I said
    3. I am openminded, but I can't accept anything that other people say when it is about history.
    Then you don't talk about history but a fantasy of your own...That IS NOT a reason to offend others and their knowlege for anythink...When you are a member of a forum like this you must be ready to axept other's opinion...Respect to all is a vital rule for such forums...Their intention is to share not to offend!!!We are all funs of a game we want to enjoy.P.S. We all have nations that some times have been hostille to us (France vs Germany,France vs England,North italians vs South italians,Greeks vs Turks...)The list is endless.Those hostillites can NOT change history.For examble even i am greek i can't change the FACT that ottomans were the first faction that create batteries( that means the artilery units) as indepantant units or that ottomans created for the first time in european history units with same and offisial uniforms...Europe created such uniforms 200 years later...So enjoy the game and....who knows we all may learn something more...

  24. #54

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
    Then you don't talk about history but a fantasy of your own...That IS NOT a reason to offend others and their knowlege for anythink...When you are a member of a forum like this you must be ready to axept other's opinion...Respect to all is a vital rule for such forums...Their intention is to share not to offend!!!We are all funs of a game we want to enjoy.P.S. We all have nations that some times have been hostille to us (France vs Germany,France vs England,North italians vs South italians,Greeks vs Turks...)The list is endless.Those hostillites can NOT change history.For examble even i am greek i can't change the FACT that ottomans were the first faction that create batteries( that means the artilery units) as indepantant units or that ottomans created for the first time in european history units with same and offisial uniforms...Europe created such uniforms 200 years later...So enjoy the game and....who knows we all may learn something more...
    Why are you saying that I am trying to offend others? I am not. I am ready to accept other people's opinion, but it doesn't mean that everything others say I must accept.
    well, I think it will be better if you PM me and we will get back to the theme of this thread.

  25. #55

    Default Re: map

    ASK YOUR ELDERS OBOUT YOUR OWN HISTORY!!YOUR NATION'S WORST ENNEMIES WERE NOT ARABS!!!
    Yeah, it was Hitler!
    that ottomans created for the first time in european history units with same and offisial uniforms...Europe created such uniforms 200 years later...
    Not so great a breakthrough in my opinion. I thought it was something pretty common in the middle ages. Romans had official uniforms for their soldiers. Please clarify what you mean.
    Why are you saying that I am trying to offend others? I am not. I am ready to accept other people's opinion, but it doesn't mean that everything others say I must accept.
    well, I think it will be better if you PM me and we will get back to the theme of this thread.
    I agree with you. You dont offend anyone. You just jump to conclusions and act a bit.... childishly. I mean no harm, dont get me wrong, just ease up.

    Yeah, lets get back to the main theme.

    PS: To all of you: When you want to answer to a person, just respond. Quote some important parts, or important words if necessary. You dont need to quote his whole damn post! We can read what he wrote.
    Last edited by Sandouras; 07-08-2007 at 23:17.

  26. #56

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandouras
    Yeah, it was Hitler!
    An enemy cannot be an enemy if he is dead!

  27. #57

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by King Orko
    An enemy cannot be an enemy if he is dead!

    I support King Orko for the following reasons:


    1. He's from Israel, and I am a proud American who backs his allies.

    2. This "book" he keeps referring to, although it is probably made up, has had me laughing non-stop with each subsequent thread. I love how everyone in here is bugging out over how he cites it, yet he doesn't even state the author or the title haha.

    3. He's in the Feudalism: Total War forum with me, where I started a lot of trouble with some kids from the Balkans just by kididng around. Lol.
    Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

    -Niccolo Machievelli

  28. #58

    Default Re: map

    So you think he did not cite the book title but still support him? Well you are dumb enough just for that, but even more, because he said which book it is and amazon has a great review for it. Who knows? It might be good.

    All in all, i dont see how you support him, other than just saying that you do.

  29. #59

    Default Re: map

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandouras
    All in all, i dont see how you support him, other than just saying that you do.

    Exactly.

    Yo it would be in your best interest, Sandouras, to stop ruffling my feathers. Maybe I'll have to face you head to head on multiplayer and you'll see who is the boss...
    Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

    -Niccolo Machievelli

  30. #60

    Default Re: map

    CAPS LOCK MOTHERF#$#%! BRING IT ON! Just kidding. Yeah i would love to....

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