Faction List for EB2?

[Swebozbozboz]

When you attack the celtiberians [near numantia i believe] currently the script spawns a couple stacks to defend it. so script armies are totally plausible and already working.


I understand this mod is trying to focus on all the other more unique factions but most players seem to have a romani campaign in progress. The civil war system sure didn't work in vanilla but the EB team is amazing and i'm sure with their super-human-beserker-scripting abilities they could make it smooth and enjoyable. It just seems a super complete roman faction would be more important than a unit-limited small, one-city faction who really didn't impact history much.

that's my two-cents.

[Foot]

I understand this mod is trying to focus on all the other more unique factions but most players seem to have a romani campaign in progress. The civil war system sure didn't work in vanilla but the EB team is amazing and i'm sure with their super-human-beserker-scripting abilities they could make it smooth and enjoyable. It just seems a super complete roman faction would be more important than a unit-limited small, one-city faction who really didn't impact history much.

that's my two-cents.

Thats why we wouldn't choose such a faction. But MTW2 has only given us 10 more factions, and there are a lot of kingdoms and tribes that deserve to be mentioned, who both had an impact and could reasonably be represented in game.

Of course, we wouldn't mind if a fan or group of fan created a mod for EB2 that got rid of one faction and replaced it with a shadow faction.

Foot

[Boyar Son]

You Know foot, these factions could be hordes, just to have an hounorable mention.

[Anthony]

Really? damn...

The Dalriata tribe only emerge as notably distinct in the early dark ages. They'd likely first emerge though as one of the early Goidelic tribes of Ireland sometime around or after 200 BC, but they'd not be called Dal Riada, and would likely be of minor consequence. Early Gaelic raids on Britain came from many tribes at once; the proto-Dalriata would likely be the vassals of a stronger tribe at the time. The British kingdom of Gaelic Dal Riada wouldn't emerge for over half a millenium though.

[Boyar Son]

Gotcha. Is that where English got he word "raid" ?

[Anthony]

No, 'raid' comes from Middle English. They said the Scots 'rade' upon horseback (not 'rode') when attacking outlying settlements suddenly. From there came connecting 'rading' with sudden attacks. 'Raid' was the Scots spelling for it.

[Wolfman]

Anthony I was told that the Veneti or Ligurians were a powerful in Cisalpine Gaul during this time. am I misinformed???

[Anthony]

Ligurians weren't Celts, but a pre-Celtic people, and the Veneti of Cisalpine Gaul weren't that powerful. I mentioned Ligurians earlier. The powerful Veneti inhabited Armorica (modern Brittany). There were Boii there. None of the them though are really that strong and would probably be destroyed quickly by neighboring Gauls (under the Aedui), or by the Romans.

[Wolfman]

I meant the Adriatic Veneti. What About the Helvetti? where they powerful

[Anthony]

The Helveti at the time were probably dependents of Noricum or the central European Boii (either of whom would probably be decent factions), so wouldn't be viable as an independent faction. It wouldn't be till their migrations that they'd likely be seen as an established, totally independent people.

[Wolfman]

Ok thanks Anthony. History is my favorite subject and I always like to make sure I have correct information. It's nice to have real historians around. Again thanks Anthony.

[Alkiviadis]

Aetolian League
Achaean League
Syracuse
Maybe Pergamos,Massalia
and i don't know for this time period (maybe would be early) Helvetii,Belgae,Jewish rebels?

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

- Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia. Would only be two units. Spearmen & Archers. EB is not supposed to be politically correct.

Politically correct? What do you mean by that?

[Wolfman]

I second King Agatholes of Syracuse question about you saying EB isn't politically correct. I thought EB was all about Historical Accuracy which is political correctness. They were named Ethiopians by the Greeks, who said they were pious and honorable warriors. They had to have had some type of military presence since they resisted the armies of Rome and Islam, and didn't fall into decline until the 9th or 10th century A.D.. They also were the only African nation besides Liberia that remained independent during the Great Scramble. During WWII, Mussolini had to use gas to conquer Ethiopia and even then he didn't hold it that long since he conquered it in 1936 and it revolted in 1941. So in two-thousand years they were only conquered twice. I must ask what do you mean about Illyria not being united enough? They had there own kingdom and king. That constitutes a faction to me. And didn't the King of Illyria send 20,000 thousand troops to the King of Macedon to defend his kingdom against a Celtic Invasion?

P.S. I am not trying to be rude. These are just facts I have found in Encyclopedias like Brittanica, Encarta, and my local library . I apologize if I offend anyone in any way and thank the people at EB for this wonderful mod.
Wolfman25

[paullus]

Hey Wolfman,

While the Ethiopians may have been good and pious warriors in the eyes of the Greeks, there are two problems. One, the Greeks had a tendency to romanticize people who were a long way off, such that they were either very good or very bad, or a mixture of both. So the Ethiopians are very nice in the Greek view, just a little behind the times. Which relates to point two, which is that the 'Ethiopian' kingdoms, of which there were several in the Hellenistic period, were rather lacking in military technology, such that the existing regional units already in EB would constitute the entire roster.

As for the Illyrians, I'm pretty sure its a single tribe of them, I think the Autaristai, who offer soldiers to Ptolemy Keraunos in 279 to help him against the Galatian armies. Its worth noting that these are a single tribe of pseudo-Illyrians; they were in no sense politically united with the other Illyrian tribes scattered along the Dalmatian coast. There's also a good chance the "20,000" is a heavily exaggerated number. The story comes down from Pausanias, doesn't it? He's not known for understatement, if you know what I mean. Additionally, by the 272 start date, the Autaristai had been further weakened by the Skordiskoi, the Celtic survivors of Brennos' invasion of Greece who settled in lands south of the Danube, lands which formerly been ruled by Autaristai to the west, Paionians to the south, Triballoi to the east, and independent Getic tribes to the north. So the Autaristai are not really a viable option.

While I don't know that I'd support Meroe, Kush, or an Illyrian tribe, I am seeing some interesting ideas put forth here! Lots of interest in adding factions to Europe, and I can't say I disagree with that notion. A Baltic faction might be in order...

[Fondor_Yards]

What Krusader means I think is just because a faction/people were around in this time, doesn't mean they are auto getting a faction. Politically correct is not Historical Accuracy. Political correctness is calling someone "African-American" instead of "Black."

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Aetolian League
Achaean League

Where should theese two be placed, regarding that EB has to give up a province and Greece is reallly "full"?

[Krusader]

Maybe the term 'political correctness' wasn't the correct one to use.

What I meant is that to me it seems very many are suggesting Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia & Jews simply because they are blacks & Jews and their suggestions are not based on historical reasons.

Many seem to want to have Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia as factions solely because they are black factions. Problem with these factions is that within the EB time period they didn't expand or anything or had any great impact (at this point). I don't know much about African history, but as I recall from the little I know these kingdoms gained in strength and territory much later. Ethiopia or Axum's golden age was in 4th century AD I think.
Indeed the Nubians did repulse a Roman army but that alone doesn't mean they deserve to be a faction. And also...what fun to play a faction with two units? Spearmen & archers.

Also I think that's why someone nominates a Jewish faction (Hasmoneans (sp?) or Maccabeans). The Jews played an important part during Hellenistic Age and did indeed revolt, however they revolted because Antiochus III persecuted their religion due to a mistake. However, the main reason is that the faction would be an emerging faction and core area would really only be Judea. From my view it seems that as long as the Jews held Judea they were content. I would rather maybe make it a bit more rebellious and make some more Jewish units, although with the 500 unit limit, we might use it on something else.

The Mauryan Empire I think people are mentioning also just because they are Indians, although they were a powerful empire. However as stated before, the absoloute political centre was in eastern India and a massive chunk of the empire would not be on the map, which is bad. Also the Mauryans didn't expand either in Central-Asia.
A suggestion that has been put forth though is to have a Gandharan "satrapy" in the Indus valley.

[Al-Masri]

I agree with Krusader whats the fun of only having a faction with two units or one that never expands.

BTW saying Black instead of African-American is not politically correct, it is just correct. African-Americans are people who immigrate to America from Africa, like myself. The black people in America who have more than 4 generations that live in America are just Americans.

[CaesarAugustus]

Where should theese two be placed, regarding that EB has to give up a province and Greece is reallly "full"?

I think that these are just leagues that divide the KH. As for losing one province, I suggest losing Cydaus in Africa. It just doesn't seem that important *compared to other EB provinces*.

A suggestion that has been put forth though is to have a Gandharan "satrapy" in the Indus valley.

IMO this is definently worthy of a faction slot, much more so than a Romani rebel faction. The Kingdom of Gandhara lasted from the 6th century BC to the 11th century AD (under various conquerors, and semi- autonomy, of course).

Its main cities were Purushapura and Takshashila, both of which are cities in EB, I think (Takshashila is definently one). Here is a full Wikipedia article . It is also qutie plausible that if they gained their freedom like the Seleukid Satrapies, they would expand into Cental Asia, as they couldn't hope to conquer more land from the vast Mauryan empire to the south.

[Dumbass]

If you want to lose a settlement, you could also go for one of those far north settlements by the baltic sea, seeing as they are soo far away and uselessto make an impact. I think cydaus could be repositioned for if a numidan or the other north african faction was implemented, meaning more settlements for them.

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

Politically correct are names like: Eskimo's to Inuit's or Indian to Native Americans.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I'm sure we wouldn't place an Aitolian and Achaean faction both in the game Centurio.

[Wolfman]

Ok thank you I apologize. I have been reading Herodotus lately so he also influenced my views. again sorry for the misunderstanding. By the way Edwardvs Primvs what does your comment about African American and Black have to do with my question??? And what are Asian Indians that migrate to Africa who still practise there cuktural and religious beliefs?? Just trying to understand were your coming from.

[Al-Masri]

Ok thank you I apologize. I have been reading Herodotus lately so he also influenced my views. again sorry for the misunderstanding. By the way Edwardvs Primvs what does your comment about African American and Black have to do with my question??? And what are Asian Indians that migrate to Africa who still practise there cuktural and religious beliefs?? Just trying to understand were your coming from.

It was mostly a rant and a respond to what Fonder_Yards said, but in regards to your question, do you want to know what Africans call them or what they like to be called?

[Wolfman]

I'd like to know both

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Please everybody don't shoot me....specially the Casse fans and the EB Casse team....but just a thought...couldn't the Casse be dropped for a more desirable new faction....just a question PLEASE DON'T BARBECUE ME ALIVE ....if whta I just said is sacrilegous to say the least I will go to my corner and wear my hat ..

[Krusader]

Please everybody don't shoot me....specially the Casse fans and the EB Casse team....but just a thought...couldn't the Casse be dropped for a more desirable new faction....just a question PLEASE DON'T BARBECUE ME ALIVE ....if whta I just said is sacrilegous to say the least I will go to my corner and wear my hat ..

The Casse are among our most popular factions it seems. Plus letting British Isles be totally empty to cram another Greek faction in?

Actually Im fairly sure we'll end up having two British Isles factions.

[Quilts]

Hi,

Just by way of comment. There seems to be alot of 'they didn't do anything' etc being used as a means for ruling out several faction possibilities. This may be true but we should consider that some of these potential factions did not achieve anything because of what they came up against.....in our history. RTW and it's Mods are 'creating' a new history, so I personally fail to see what really did happen as a precursor for disqualification. Due to limited factions slots there is a need to be 'ruthless' with potential candidates, but perhaps not as ruthless as some would indicate. I doubt the Casse or Lusotani would feature were we to get too pedantic about a factions impact on the ancient world.

My 2 cents.....

On the assumption that there's 10 new faction slots available I would vote for-

1. Bithynia. Didn't achieve a great deal in our history, but with a slightly more productive gene they may have gone onto great things. They were the major rival of Pontus until incorporated into the Roman Sphere.

2. An eastern Gallic faction, perhaps Scordisci. The Galatians could even be deemed as part of this faction, perhaps even the Capitol. They caused major headaches for the Macedonians and then Romans at various times.

3. Syracuse, or a Western Greek alliance incorporating Syracuse, Massilia, .... Not terribly historic but a desent way of representing Western Greek influences in the area.

4. Seleucid Rebels. To represent alot of breakaway states- Jewish, Commagene, Gordyene? etc

5. Nabateaen Kingdom? Not sure about this one, but they did fight and beat most everybody who took them on. Could have been players were the circumstances right.

6. Roman Rebels. If possible, only appearing in heavily influenced Roman regions. The rest should be 'normal' rebels. Not sure whether this is possible.

7. Attalid Pergamene. As Bithynia. Let down by ability to reproduce in our history, but.....

8. Numidian Tribe. Whichever tribe is deemded most appropriate.

9. Another German federation. Perhaps Cimbri/Teutones with the ability to Horde.....

10. The most influencial Illyrian tribe. Probably Queen ?????. Her husband before had a much better handle on things and may have been able to unite more of Illyria that we see in our history.

Cheers,

Quilts

[Boyar Son]

Queen teuta, and before king Bardyllis