Hai trait question

[Pharnakes]

Hi playing as the hai, I noticed this "Royal eye" trait, that says something a bout thsi man being apointed by the king to watch for treachery. I was just wondering what actual effect this has, as it seems to be given to just about all of my characters regardless of their other traits.


Thx

[Foot]

Hi playing as the hai, I noticed this "Royal eye" trait, that says something a bout thsi man being apointed by the king to watch for treachery. I was just wondering what actual effect this has, as it seems to be given to just about all of my characters regardless of their other traits.


Thx

At the moment it doesn't really do much, my bad on that front.

Basically the government system for Hayasdan is ripped from the old persian model (and indeed a model that was informed by the earlier median empire, which is a model that we find throughout the east including Urartu), which we can find in Tigran the Great's Empire, in particular with reference to the syrian principalities. The Achaemenid's had a method of keeping Satraps in check, who were prone to rebellion, by having trusted men close to the Persian King to make inspections of the various satrapal provinces. These men were called "Royal Eye's" and they commanded much respect, indeed even the threat of them visiting let the Satrap in question know that the Persian King was displeased with his current behaviour - the "Royal Eye" didn't even have to go half the time!

As for ingame, I was not sure how to implement this trait. There were suggestions to give it to all diplomats (which might work in MTW2 as we can now limit the global population of certain agents), but this would just mean that every satrap could have one of these guys looking over them all the time. I decided to give it all family members, because it would mean that their number was limited, but they would not be too few as to make them useless.

At the moment they don't really work as the governments currently don't have the correct penalties. Basically, once the penalties are in, the "Royal Eyes" will counter-act the penalties given by type III & II goverments (not type IV, we have different ideas for them). But obviously they can't stay there all the time, but they will help keep rebellious type III & II governed settlements in check.

Hope that has helped.

Foot

[Pharnakes]

Nice ideas, thanks

[mAIOR]

Damn. Everytime they talk about upcoming features, I find my mouth watering for some reason...


Cheers...

[Sarkiss]

At the moment they don't really work as the governments currently don't have the correct penalties. Basically, once the penalties are in, the "Royal Eyes" will counter-act the penalties given by type III & II goverments (not type IV, we have different ideas for them). But obviously they can't stay there all the time, but they will help keep rebellious type III & II governed settlements in check.

Hope that has helped.

Foot

thanks for explanation. sounds very interesting.
it'd be better if this feature, or shall i say a position of being a 'Royal Eye', could be only gained by a character getting appointed through passing certain preconditional stages like reaching certain age, have big managing and/or military experience, or maybe being a relative to a king. so i.e. no adopted characters can get it and thus you limit, decrease amount of candidates and increase the value of the position. IMO this way we first - get historical accuracy; second - get very limited amount of 'Royal Eye's. as it stands now every family memeber is a 'RE'. not very sensable.
now, im a complete noob on how RTW's engines work and if it is possible to represent it the way i described, so please pardon me if it is not.
the feature is interesting indeed, just need to have/find a way of implementing it.
just my two cents.

[Foot]

thanks for explanation. sounds very interesting.
it'd be better if this feature, or shall i say a position of being a 'Royal Eye', could be only gained by a character getting appointed through passing certain preconditional stages like reaching certain age, have big managing and/or military experience, or maybe being a relative to a king. so i.e. no adopted characters can get it and thus you limit, decrease amount of candidates and increase the value of the position. IMO this way we first - get historical accuracy; second - get very limited amount of 'Royal Eye's. as it stands now every family memeber is a 'RE'. not very sensable.
now, im a complete noob on how RTW's engines work and if it is possible to represent it the way i described, so please pardon me if it is not.
the feature is interesting indeed, just need to have/find a way of implementing it.
just my two cents.

No this is indeed possible, but I would disagree about the historical accuracy. Firstly it makes sense for members of the royal family to have the Royal Eye, cos basically being a family member means you have that kind of influence anyway. Secondly, for me at least, the family tree only represents the Kings most trusted people (even if they are secretly disloyal), but there would certainly be many more influential people than are represented by the tree. Lesser Generals, for example, are people who would have had influence, but might not have been close to the king at court.

However perhaps complicating the requirements might be a nice idea. How about not giving it to adopted generals who are disloyal. The thing is that satraps, in rebellious settlements, will be prone to rebellion. What I really wanted was to have a building called the satrapal Mint, which would give unrest and law penalties, but give tax benefits, as satraps often minted their own coins, which was a show of their independence. Ah well, perhaps in EB2.

Foot

[Sarkiss]

No this is indeed possible, but I would disagree about the historical accuracy. Firstly it makes sense for members of the royal family to have the Royal Eye, cos basically being a family member means you have that kind of influence anyway. Secondly, for me at least, the family tree only represents the Kings most trusted people (even if they are secretly disloyal), but there would certainly be many more influential people than are represented by the tree. Lesser Generals, for example, are people who would have had influence, but might not have been close to the king at court.

However perhaps complicating the requirements might be a nice idea. How about not giving it to adopted generals who are disloyal. The thing is that satraps, in rebellious settlements, will be prone to rebellion. What I really wanted was to have a building called the satrapal Mint, which would give unrest and law penalties, but give tax benefits, as satraps often minted their own coins, which was a show of their independence. Ah well, perhaps in EB2.

Foot

this building idea sounds very interesting. so if you got it built (to raise more money) then you definitely need a governor, "RE", in place. great IMO. but then again from what i undesrstood, perhaps incorrectly, the "RE" are a few most trusted and close people to the throne, and not just about anyone form the royal family. even king's sons, and heir to the throne can be disloyal, and if so should he still be a "RE"?
it comes down to a definition of a concept of "RE". if it is a common attribute for a royal family members from the birth then its one thing, but if it is a special position, that only king himself can appoint to, is the other thing. correct me if im wrong, but would king sent an inspection to the rebbellious satrapy lead by just about any one from his court, or would he pick these people (person) carefully, not to fuel the rebbellion moods even more? i dont have much sources, just trying to think logically.
the idea of adopted generals not having "RE" (at least not from the moment they adopted) is a good one IMO.
so it is not very clear to me wheather "RE" should be a high, special position that only the best can get (something like Roman legat), or is it a trait that every royal family member have?
wouldn't be the first one better? once again no sources at hand ATM, just thoughts.

[Sarkiss]

thinking about it again, maybe "RE" should be considared as a high position rather than a common trait? make it something that needs promotion to. like in case with Romans when you have to take you officer through the chain of serious challenges (army service etc) in order to attain right anciliaries, get promoted.
am i being reseanoble at all?

[Foot]

thinking about it again, maybe "RE" should be considared as a high position rather than a common trait? make it something that needs promotion to. like in case with Romans when you have to take you officer through the chain of serious challenges (army service etc) in order to attain right anciliaries, get promoted.
am i being reseanoble at all?

Considering the absurdity of movement speeds and the rarity of family members on the whole I would say that moving it to be such a rare thing would make sure that people never bother with it. I'm fine for restricting it to certain circles, and it sure does need more thinking, but having it so restricted would make it people lose interest in quite quickly. If its rarity causes it to have no real impact on the game, as if the trait is rare it would be unfair for the unrest caused by satrapies to be so high as to be noticeable.

What I would really like is a slow and progressive rise in unrest that would be quashed once a RE arrives. If I could do that then I certainly would think about reducing the number of REs avaliable. It would mean you would have to keep them on their toes, but I don't think that is possible in RTW. It might be possible in MTW2 as the campaign script is an integral part of the engine throughout the campaign, so I think it will be able to remember numbers of turns passed.

Foot

[Sarkiss]

you are quite wright. i always tend to go a bit too far in either restrictions or persuing historical accuracy and realism. of course, gameplay and balance should be seriously considered too.
still, my first good impression about the feature during my Hayasdan campaign perished pretty quickly once i realised that every family member is RE and it doesnt effect anything really. so i think that the way out is to get the feature working and perhaps restrict to certain circles.
thank you