Re: Win Conditions
I doubt that they will stop their northern trip after these 2 towns, I've often seen them losing Rome while conquering Gaul or Germany.Originally Posted by konny
I had the impression that they lose interest in attacking cities that are too strong, at least for quite a while.
But great to hear that you're making progress on this, AI-behaviour is the only thing that sometimes really annoys me in this game.
Last edited by burn_again; 12-03-2007 at 18:12.
Re: Win Conditions
Konny, I have to report another minor error
Please, change "Parthava" to "Parthyaia" in descr_win_conditions.
Best regards
MiniMe.
Re: Win Conditions
I haven't had much time to dedicate to this for about a week, but I have learned that the best expansion from the Romans occurs if you give them Taras and Rhegion at the beginning of the game.
I've been playing through for much longer though. I'm currently in 224 and Rome has Italy, Messana, Corsica, and all of Cisalpline Gaul, but they can't break through into the Arverni, Aedui, and Sweboz controlled regions on the far side of the alps.
Also interesting is that I changed the core diplomatic attitudes of the factions so that Romans hated Carthage and were neutral toward the rebels. This has seen the Romans not expand into Pannonia and Illyria. They do, however, march through Pannonia to attack the Epirotes. Interesting!
What has been fun to watch is that the Greeks took Syracuse, the Carthaginians hold on to Lilybaeom, and the Romans try to get their act together in Messana. There is usually a big battle there every few turns.
I've also turned off "prefers naval invasions" for the Carthaginains in the sm_factions file. They still use ships to shuttle reinforcements to Sicily, Corsica, and Sardenia, but they aren't sending the weird invasion force into Capua every so often.
Last edited by Callicles; 12-05-2007 at 19:39.
Re: Win Conditions
hmm.. That's not so much, taking into acount that they start with all of Italy south of the Rubicon. How strong are the Roman armies? I had encountered very strong armies when I played the Sweboz and came across the Romans in the Alps, but in the current game they are very very weak.
That is good. Those Capua Raids had made me avioding the BI.exe meanwhile.I've also turned off "prefers naval invasions" for the Carthaginains in the sm_factions file. They still use ships to shuttle reinforcements to Sicily, Corsica, and Sardenia, but they aren't sending the weird invasion force into Capua every so often.
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How are the Seleucids doing in your build? My VCs seems to have made them lazy.
@ MiniMe
Thank you. The next VCs will be done by using the regions file. There seems to be a number of typoi in the recruitement viewer.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
I'm going to abandon BI after my current campaign too.
confirmed =(My VCs seems to have made them lazy. .
LOL
Konny, I think you gonna like this:
Karhies went berserk and took Segesta from Aedui and Galicia from Lusotannan
Seeing this Karthage rush, KH went jelous, launched two-stack mayhem and took Taras, Arpi and Capua from Romanz.
Methinx, right now Roman and Lusotannan embassadors have a chat sort of "WTF went wrong with these people?"
Last edited by MiniMe; 12-06-2007 at 01:08.
Re: Win Conditions
Oh, that's very fine. Only Makedonia and Epeiros "misbehaved" a little and went into Balkans instead of going for Greece. But it is good to see that the Maks are still alive.
Karhies went berserk and took Segesta from Aedui and Galicia from Lusotannan
Seeing this Karthage rush, KH went jelous, launched two-stack mayhem and took Taras, Arpi and Capua from Romanz.
Methinx, right now Roman and Lusotannan embassadors have a chat sort of "WTF went wrong with these people?"
I think Capua and Arpi are VCs for KH. All of Italy and Spain is for Karthe. But how did they make it to Galicia without taking Lusotannia?
Next VC-file will come tomorrow: I think I have now a better preformance of AS. Some further minor changes, including the "take_regions" command which allows for a little more random games.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
OK, here is version 0.2:
http://www.2shared.com/file/2583444/...GN_SCRIPT.html
Even though the file is called "Campaign Script" this one was not altered. The descr_start has some minor changes. Most important is that the Successor Armies have been moved from Jerusalem to Sidon: the AS army always became pinned after the battle somewhere within the Syrian Hights starting on the former position. The survivors are now used by the AI in the first turns; they are very fast depleted nevertheless.
Some major rework was done with the victory_conditions:
- Karthago has now no additional targets in Africa, what might - or might not - result in an more active Karthago in Europe.
- AS is now holding only six of its VC towns, with more than 20 to conquer. That together with the changed starting position for their army had at least in 2 of 3 test made a more active Seleucia.
- Parthia's starting towns are now no longer VCs for that faction. The AI should not spend to much ressources on defending or retaking them and rather head south.
- Some of Baktria's and Armenia's VCs were deleted that might have guided them into the steppe.
Most important is that now all factions have the take_regions command assigned to their VCs. But that doesn't seem to do them much good, because I have seen a lot of misbehaviour in my three tests (attacking of non-VC rebell towns, losing VC towns to rebellion).
These are the screens from the three test, always Winter 262 BC:
It seems that wildcard victory conditions are not good for every faction because that brings up the old patterns. I think, that that was it what we have seen in EB: the old RTW:Vanilla victory conditions of taking 50 towns of your choice (and Rome) that are hardcoded somewhere in the engine and can only be outruled by the textfile.
I will go on with the last game because it had some interessting Roman movements, but I think that I will change the file again; save for the Nomads who can go whereever they want and should not be bound by VC towns.
Last edited by konny; 12-08-2007 at 21:18.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
That looks good, Konny. I'll try yours out when I both have more time and get through my current campaign.
I know these are long overdue. But here are the VC's I've been using in my current campaign.
Code:;Romani seleucid hold_regions Latium2 Etruria Umbria Campania Apulia Kalabria Brettia Sicilia Etruria Trinakrie Umbria Zeugitana Lacetania Celtiberia Makedonia Attike Delta_Neilou Ioudaia Syria Kypros take_regions 60 ;Saka pontus hold_regions Sai_Yavuga Xiyu Saka_Yabgu Kangha Dayuan Sogdiane Margiana Dahyu_Alanna Baktria Gandhara Sind Sattagydia take_regions 20 ;Arverni scythia hold_regions Sequallra Lugonesis Arvernotorg Lemorisae Helvetis Rhaetia Volcallra Aquitae Greseoallra Bellovacaea_Belgae Mrogaedu Nervaea_Belgae Vindelicos Insubramrog Batromorgan Armoriae Mrogaule Venetia Latium2 Galatia take_regions 20 ;Saba saba hold_regions Saba Qataban Hadramaut Zufar Maketa Arabia Main Gerrhaia_Arabia Sinai Nabataia Syria Syria_Koile Phoenicia Ioudaia Assyrie Tadmor Babylonia Charax_Spasinou take_regions 20 ;Makedon macedon hold_regions Makedonia Thessalia Peloponnesos Euboia Lesbos Attike Aitolia Epeiros Chersonesos_Thraikia Odrysai Dardanoia Illyria_Hellenike Mikra_Skythia Mysia Lydia Karia Bithynia Thraikia_Hypertera Kypros take_regions 30 ;Ptolemaioi numidia hold_regions Delta_Neilou Oasis_Megale Libye Syria Syria_Koile Phoenicia Ioudaia Kypros Tadmor Rhodos Assyrie Babylonia Pamphylia Kilikia Marmarike Kyrenaia take_regions 30 ;Arche Seleukeia romans_julii hold_regions Syria Syria_Koile Assyrie Babylonia Mesopotamia Elymais Phoenicia Media Ioudaia Lydia Phrygia Adiabene Sinai Delta_Neilou Kypros Tadmor Rhodos take_regions 40 ;Carthage egypt hold_regions Zeugitana Sicilia Trinakrie Turdulia Mauretania_Massaesili Edetania Lacetania Kypros Kalabria Brettia take_regions 30 ;Parthia parthia hold_regions Hyrkania Astauene Parthyaia Media Babylonia Elymais Dahyu_Daha Khwarazm take_regions 20 ;Pontus carthage hold_regions Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos take_regions 10 ;Aedui gauls hold_regions Bellovacaea_Belgae Sequallra Nervaea_Belgae Lugonesis Mrogaedu Mrogaule Batromorgan Arvernotorg Lemorisae Armoriae Aquitae Volcallra Greseoallra Vindelicos Helvetis Rhaetia Insubramrog Venetia Galatia take_regions 20 ;Sweboz germans hold_regions Swebolandam Kimbrolandam Skandza Rugolandam Silengolandam Mrogbonna Hattolandam Heruskolandam Habukolandam Vindelicos Bastarnolandam Sequallra Helvetis Rhaetia Noricae Venedu_Tauta Sembu_Gentys Sapmi Auwjogotanoz Seliun_Gentis take_regions 20 ;Casse britons hold_regions Corieltauvae Cornovae Cambriae take_regions 10 ;Hayasdan romans_scipii hold_regions Hayasdan Egrisi Kartli Aghvan Adurbadagan Adiabene Media Babylonia Elymais Charax_Spasinou Persis take_regions 10 ;Getai dacia hold_regions Getia Getia_Koile Mikra_Skythia Thraikia_Hypertera BastarnolandamEravacouw Scorcouw Coutinoe Dardanoia Pannonia Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia take_regions 15 ;Koinon Hellenon greek_cities hold_regions Attike Lakonike Rhodos Peloponnesos Krete Kyrenaia Aitolia Thessalia Makedonia Epeiros Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos Bithynia Mysia Lesbos Kypros Trinakrie take_regions 30 ;Baktria romans_brutii hold_regions Baktria Paropamisadai Aria Arachosia Drangiane take_regions 20 ;Sauromatae armenia hold_regions Dahyu_Roxsalanna Dahyu_Yazyga Dahyu_Siraca Dahyu_Aursa Dahyu_Alanna Dahyu_Mazsakata Dahyu_Thissakata Maeotis Skythia Budinije Dahyu_Siraca Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos take_regions 20 ;Lusotannan spain hold_regions Lusitania Celtiberia Galaecia Asturia Cantabria Turdulia Carpetania Turdetania Bastetania Edetania Lacetania Baleares take_regions 15 ;Epeiros thrace hold_regions Makedonia Epeiros Illyria_Hellenike Dalmatia Pannonia_Illyrica Dardanoia Thessalia Aitolia Kypros Kyrenaia take_regions 25
Also, here is what the world looked like in the summer of 244. I'm playing as Pontos.
And lest there be any confusion, don't worry. The Seleukids make a powerful come back. They get along pretty well for the next 20 years until Baktria, Armenia, and Parthia start eat up the north east.
Re: Win Conditions
Konny, if you don't mind, I'll stick to my current Ptolemaioi campaign with your previous WC for a while.
right now me too drunk to post a complete report on 220 BC, but the one thing I'd like to say is that AS are not that passive as you've might think they are. In fact, they keep attacking my eastern iron belt with very nice stacks every turn, sometimes I don't have time to reinforce. Like it.
(but, of course, the best would be to see Romans sieging Carthage capital, however, I doubt we can achieve it on current engine)
Re: Win Conditions
My Russian friend
just have fun
“Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world.”
Re: Win Conditions
@ Callicles
Interessting: you are sending everyone to Kypros. The Seleucids in fact took it, that's rare.
But you have also some stepping out of the line. Especially the Romans in the North and As in Arabia. May be you should try it without the take_regions command.
Yes, please do so. I consider the last tests a failure. I had much better results without the take_regions commands (that is the one you are useing now). So, for further tests I will only use that for factions that can't do anything wrong like the Nomads, Casse or Lusotanns.
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I have seen that RTW:Alexander uses the "outilve" command as a basic VC. I will include that too in the next version, even though it is a little difficult to test. I think, before the year is over we have found a way to convice the AI how to play EB the correct way.
BTW, I finally came behind the mystery of Getai: Sometimes we have a very active Getai, even invading Makedonia. In other games they might as well be Eleutheroi. It seems to be the first town (that one North of their capital). In all games in which they had been able to take in the first attempt they overrun the Balkans afterwards. In all games they failed they didn't do anything impressive afterwards. That one is another "to do": change descr_strat that they have a 100% chance of taking it in the first attempt.
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For now, because I have done nothing else than hit "End Turn" and watching stupid AI moves the last two days, I am going to play a little and give Armenia a first try for EB 1.0.
*lol*right now me too drunk to post a complete report on 220 BC
Ok, have a good time.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
I don't necessarily remember my thinking on that, other than that it is in a strategic position and has the potential to be a pretty good fortress. If I were the Seleukids and everything was falling apart, it might serve as a pretty good Alamo.
Good to know. I'll weaken its garrison in my descr_strat.
Sounds good. I'm in the middle of a pretty exciting Pontic campaign right now, but I'm sorta getting the hankering for something new myself. Since I've only ever played as KH and Pontos, the whole field is open.
Enjoy Armenia and be sure to keep us updated as you go.
Re: Win Conditions
recent news from the battlefield: The most annoying issue are epeiros. after grabbing eastern adriatic coast they just sit on their arse and do nothing.
everyone else in doing great BTW.
Re: Win Conditions
Yes, that depends very much on Pella. When they can take it they are very good in expanding in all directions - if not, they don't do anything in particular for large parts of the game. I didn't give them any targets on the Balkans; that seems to work up to some degree: they always take Dalmion, but that's ok I think, but hardly make any serious attempts on Serdike or other midland towns.
That's good to hear.everyone else in doing great BTW.
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After a fruiteless campaign with the Armenians (beeing attacked by AS in the phase of consolidation; pretty much the same as in 0.8 but now with this Pan-Caucasian Reform and hardly any homelands/expantion lands around the position of Armenia is even weaker than before), and two days of trying to get something positive out of M2TW (extreme laggy battles, units and AI even worse than RTW:vanilla - have to wait for mods), I am now back on testing.
The outlive command doesn't seem to work, so much for that. The first thing I do now is testing the 0.2 VCs without the take_regions command to proof if that really has a negative impact on the AI behaviour.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
A couple observations from my current campaign.
I'm not sure how effective the "core diplomatic attitudes" are. To see if I could get Carthage and Rome to fight it out in Iberia, I gave both core diplomatic attitude of 480 with the Iberians. It certainly hasn't come into play here. After the Carthaginians got kicked out of Iberia, they started that whole declaring war /ceasefire each turn. And once the Ibarians took the whole peninsula, they started running amok.The Aedui lost Gaul because of the massive Iberian invasion.
But what is so frustrating is that the Sweboz and Romans are allied with the Iberians. Hopefully that will change soon, and I'll start getting interesting expansion from the Romans and Germans.
I recognize that the Iberians might be the "interesting expansion," but I didn't tell them to do it, that's all.
Considering that the Romans shouldn't be allied with the Iberians considering their core diplomatic attitude of 480, I'm perplexed.
Re: Win Conditions
May be you should try it with something above 500, or even with the 600? I have seen changes in the AI behaviour by just changing the core attitude without any VCs assigned. That was for example the Maks go hunting Epeirote armies instead of rushing up the Balkans.
Another observation on Sicily: Not only the Romans seem to ignore it in the early game (they make some feeble attacks on Rhegion), the Carthagians do so as well. It take them very long (a minmum of 5 years) to launch the first attack on one of the two free towns, and these attacks are so weak that it takes even more longer to conquer one of these towns. So, there must be other reasons why the AI in general regards that region as not worth conquering.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
Could it be that allies avoid having common borders? I always had that impression with Sicily, but it also seems to happen with other regions, between Baktria and AS, Makedonia and AS or (if they become allies/protectorates) between KH and Epirus or Rome and gauls. Often if they have a common border, the will end up in war, perhaps the AI wants to avoid that...
Re: Win Conditions
That can be, but I doubt it: The Armenians are often attacking Phraaspa very early in the game, what would give them a common border more with AS. On the other hand we also have these very odd movements of very small Karthagian armies in Southern Italy. They are sometimes standing very close to Rhegion, blocking off any Roman advance South (I think that is accidently and not intended).
There must be something seriously wrong with this region of the map for the AI. They are attacking these towns from time to time but with very small armies compared to the armies they send elsewhere. That is in particular evident for the Romans who might march their full stacks either North or South. The stronger the army they gather, the more likely it becomes that this one is not of the South.
Another problematic spot seems to be Chalkis: The Maks have no problems moving troops from the mainland to Chalkis to reinforce the garrison. They also have no problems to use this army to attack Athens. KH on the other hand seems to have serious problems to identify Chalkis as a target or to find a way there (or a safe route of retreat?), because I often see full stacks of KH standing next to Athens for turns and turns and turns that could easyly overrun the few Makedonian defenders but do not move.
Because both places include very small land-bridges it might be easy to suspect them to be the reason. On the other hand, I think it is just a land-tile that looks like a sea-tile? So, that should not cause any problems with AI pathfindings.
Last edited by konny; 12-13-2007 at 13:42.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
Yeah, the common border thing was just an idea. In my campaigns however the Armenians will almost always expand north, and rarely attack Phraaspa.
The Carthies are always trying to march from Sicily to Spain or vice versa, sometimes they are even trying to get to Afrika. There are sometimes carthagian FM standing around in Greece or Asia Minor with no movement points left.
The KH seems to prefer Demetrias over Chalkis, but they take Chalkis later most of the time. I thought that perhaps the AI is less interested in smaller settlements, as Chalkis is only a town. That was the same thing with the Sweboz in 0.8, they always headed for Eburonum instead of the easier Gawjam-Silengoz.
Re: Win Conditions
That is something I am trying to change by assigning Vcs for the factions. In particular with Armenia the results are good (save for the last test with the wildcard VCs) and they are more often staying in the Caucasus region and later attack AS than going for the Steppe.
I have seen these too. But I think they are bribed generals, because in some occasions I even see small Karthagian armies of horse-archers and the like Eastern folk around the Caspians.The Carthies are always trying to march from Sicily to Spain or vice versa, sometimes they are even trying to get to Afrika. There are sometimes carthagian FM standing around in Greece or Asia Minor with no movement points left.
From my testing I don't have the impression that the AI is much concerned on economics when going on conquest. Most notable in this aspect are again the Whites who go for remote desert villages first and ignore rich towns like Syracusae for most of the game.The KH seems to prefer Demetrias over Chalkis, but they take Chalkis later most of the time. I thought that perhaps the AI is less interested in smaller settlements, as Chalkis is only a town. That was the same thing with the Sweboz in 0.8, they always headed for Eburonum instead of the easier Gawjam-Silengoz.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
Could be bribed generals, but in a KH campaign I witnessed a FM with a carthagian name marching from Spain through Gaul and the Alps and then through Greece to Asia Minor. He got stuck somwhere in Syria.
Re: Win Conditions
201 BC Ptolemaioi campaign
Everything looks fine besides previously mentioned issue:
Epeiros as passive as it is. Four very good stacks guard his capital and don't move.
But AS is not passive. They are losing it, yes. But they are not passive, they are desperate in their attempts to retrieve Selevkia and the rest of Iraq.
What annoys me is that:
Baktrian stacks are composed of Pantodapoi 50%
KH armies are composed of Hoplitai Haploi 50%
Carthage armies are composed of Numidian Skirmishers 50%
Surprisingly the rest of their armies is very good.
Which alltogether means that after 1.0 unit rebalance AI (who's not a fool and never was) is disposed towards these units due to their soldiers quantity and moderate quality of their spears.
Do you on any occasion still have 0.81 EDU somewhere, I'd like to take look on it
Last edited by MiniMe; 12-15-2007 at 21:35.
Re: Win Conditions
201 BC Ptolemaioi campaign
Everything looks fine besides previously mentioned issue:
Epeiros as passive as it is. Four very good stacks guard his capital and don't move.
So far I couldn't figure out what causes the static stacks on the Adriatic coast. I have them too after some time: Epeiros always starts active but becomes pinned after taking Dalmion.
The other factions:
Armenia and Baktria made it into the Steppe. That can't be prevented all the time because they might conquer these towns during a war. I like how Baktria advandced into India.
I think you have the version in which the Sauromates are told to go West, that's what they did.
The Sweboz are also fine, staying more or less within their homelands.
I am worrying again on the Romans. I think they moved by war to the Channel? At leat they are not Poland.
Very fine: The Maks are still in Pella and Demetrias in 201 BC. I think the new starting position for their main army works wonders. In my tests I had them only once loosing Pella in the first 10 years.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
On the Edit:
I don't think so, but may be on the PC in my office. Aren't the old unit cards still around?
I remember from EB 0.8 that the AI loved the Hoplitai Haploi. It raised dozends and hundreds of them with every faction as soon as possible (even with the Romani and the Arverni). That is always a good sign of a unit beeing terribly overpowered/to cheap compared with others.
I have also seen that the AI prefers the light hoplites (Ekodromoi?) over the classical one. Do you have any cavalry in Carthagian armies in Africa? I usually don't see the AI raise any cavalry for the Whitees.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
Romans were acting fine. What you see in Antwerpen is their recent move. If not the insane Carthage Genoese landing I'd expect them to be in control of Sicily by now. Well... things happen =)
They have very good Polibian stacks and I still expect them to show themselves in Italy.
Armenia was expanding very slow, and this'd be Ok IMO. My grim thought is that it is not them who's the problem, it's the EB weekest faction -Sauromates that lets them in.
Re: Win Conditions
Oh, Carthage 1.0 cavalry recruitment is very good. They send Bastard Cavalry to Italy and Sacred Band to me. Afrikan pikemen and Sacred Band Infantry jointly with siege machinery can be spotted everywhere. These guys we don't need to worry about, they have it all plus zillions of cash.
and: I've installed RomeTW-ALX and ran my campaign with it (your descr_win_conditions, script and descr-strategy applyed). Good, performance increased.
Last edited by MiniMe; 12-15-2007 at 22:02.
Re: Win Conditions
I have no idea what can be done for Sauromates. They get the same money help as the Saka, they have about the same units and the same VCs, but most of time they don't do anything impressive. They are even worse than the Getai or Armenia.
When I watch the AI moves I see them running up and down their lands but hardly crossing any border. May be there lands are simply to large and they don't find the exit?
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
Someone pointed out that Horse Archers aren't computed properly by the AI for autocalc and that the fix was to change teh EDU so that horse archers have stathealth of 1,2 rather than 1,0. I'm seeing more aggresive Sauromatae with that change.
Re: Win Conditions
May be archers in general are getting a defensive bonus and offensive malus on autocalc? Everytime I see one of these horsearcher factions attack a rebells' stack composed of the same units they lose if not seriously outnumbering the defenders.
Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team
Re: Win Conditions
As you can see here, your victory conditions are at least not crashing game to desctop when achieved =)
I shall continue this campaign and try to massacre Maks and Greys, cause I'm curious what will happen when I'll achieve scripted victory conditions. Besides, island of Sicily is somewhat tempting =)
Have to admit that after relocating on RomeTW-ALX.exe I see significant performanse in AI logistiks. No more strange "walk that way, now go back".
Please, see section 2 of my recent post in Maximus tread, I would like to know yours pros and contras on it.
Best regards
MiniMe
Last edited by MiniMe; 12-18-2007 at 00:27.
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