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Thread: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

  1. #151
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Josip Tito's address to the Italian public:

    People of Italy,
    We come not to conquer, only to liberate. We do not force a yolk upon those we conquer, we instead give them true freedom, that which is currently deprived of many of you. People of Italy, how many of you suffer from poverty and destitution? How many of you struggle to live paycheck to paycheck, while your employer lavishes in extravagance? What right is it of theirs to exploit your hard labor and only pay a pittance of their income in return? We come to offer that which every human being deserves: an honest living, an equivalent income which surpasses the destitution so many in capitalistic societies are forced into.

    I commend those who recognize their government's corruption and inequality. I hope that all will soon recognize that all human beings have base rights and needs, and that Socialism will provide said needs and rights to all. Your president claims he has the military in his support. The same military which so blatantly disregarded the rights and wishes of the people of Austria. People of Italy, how much longer will it be until the current government disregards your own wishes as well? How long before your president uses the military to strong-arm the common man into following his whim? Italians, throw off the yolk of your oppressors, and create your own socialist society, where the common man can live with ease, not having to fight for his family's economic survival on a daily basis! It is not right for the few wealthy persons to dominate the rest of society, and horde society's wealth for themselves! People of Italy, I can guarantee that all of you work much harder and longer hours than the heads of the corporations who seek to exploit your labor! Take what is rightfully yours!
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  2. #152
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    The United States Speech to Europe

    I, President Lyndon B. Johnson, wish to discuss something with everyone in Europe, and here in America. My dear friend, John F. Kennedy, was a great American leader. He saw the injustice in the rights that were provided to whites in America, and the rights of African-Americans. He saw that the injustice could not last, now would he allow it to last. I to saw the injustice, and I continue the Civil Rights movement.
    This movement has also enlightened me to the problems in Europe. Many of the Communists would have you believe that the democratic nations are 'corrupt' and 'rotten'. They would no doubt think that, considering they are simply mirroring their own government.
    The Yugoslavian government discusses 'welfare' and hopes to honey their offers with a 'better tomorrow'. The Soviet governments, they would echo similar statements, even though their communism is worse than that of the Yugoslavian Tito.
    These are lies that I can refute by the words of many East Germans, Poles, Czechs, and Danes that I have met. One East German was born in Berlin, and has lived through the terrible hardship of post-World War 1. He lived through the rise and fall of the Fascist dictator Hitler. He has experienced the worst living conditions that men can endure, from the bombing of his home by Allied and Soviet bombers, the rumble of Nazi and Soviet tanks through his streets. He has lived through the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum. He lived under the Fascist Hitler, and the Communist Stalin. Neither system he approved of. He struggled past the Berlin guards, and was able to leave the East German side of Berlin, and he was able to emigrate to America. He did not leave a land of milk-and-honey for the land of poverty and destitution.
    He emigrated to a land of opportunity and privilege, where your merits and your abilities are valued.
    Here, it is not how much you can bribe the local commune leader, or what family connections you have, but what your talents are, and your drive to achieve.

    I would also discuss a most controversial issue. While Stalin might not admit it, nor would Khrushchev, I have here the photos from spy planes, and the accounts of survivors of one of the greatest human tragedies since the Holocaust in Germany. These are the GULAGs. These are where the dissidents and rebellious people of the Soviet Union are sent. People who oppose the corrupt and decadent Soviet lifestyle. Now, I ask you, people of Europe. Why would the system where you would have all you could ever wish for, have dissidents?
    People of the Soviet unions, of Poland, of Czechoslovakia, of East Germany. I ask you to look at your officials, your commune leaders. Are they like you? Do they have to wearily go, day-to-day with your troubles? Do they have to wait for bread or fuel? What of influential people in the major cities? Are they struggling to supply for their family?

    People of Yugoslavia, I respect your communism. The Communism of Yugoslavia is very much more respectable and less corrupt than the communism of Stalin and the U.S.S.R. Tito, have you so recently forgotten the threats of Stalin and his cronies? Have you talked to the Yugoslavian GULAG prisoners? Yet you side with those who threatened to over-throw your government and order. I would just as eagerly leave the people of Zagreb and Sarajevo alone, to live as you live your lives. Yet you have joined with the Communist beast of the U.S.S.R., and you have launched invasions of nations who did not attack you.

    People of Italy, of France, of Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Britain, Norway, Denmark, and all those who have contributed to the NATO war effort. I am proud of the efforts of the United States and West German soldiers. They have served admirably, fighting and destroying major Soviet formations. At odds of 1:10, they fought on. They fought, and they defeated the Soviets at Mainz. Frankfurt, Fulda, Munster. The West Germans and French, British and United States soldiers, they all have fought, and fought against odds that would daunt many a weaker-hearted man. Yet the Soviets push onward.
    The Soviets push onward, to capture the cities of France, of Belgium, of Netherlands, of Denmark. They have sent waves of men and material at the resolute defenders of Democracy and Freedom. They have pummeled and bombed, killed and committed atrocities against humanity. They have fought on against men who are not defending land that is their own. The Americans are not fighting on American soil, the British on their soil. They are fighting on your soil. They are fighting to defend the ideals that you hold dear.

    People of Germany and Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, Romania and Yugoslavia. I ask you why are you brothers and sons, uncles and fathers. Why are they fighting? Have you received any benefits from these 'victories'? Are you now eating more? Do you enjoy more benefits? Or have there been more 'necessary cuts?' 'Charity for the Motherland?' People of Germany and Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, Romania and Yugoslavia. I ask you to go to your commune leaders and community directors, and ask for a change. To have more food, or more fuel. More electricity or acres. Ask them, and see what you get. Question the Party Policy. Or are you afraid to do so for fear Retribution? In America, you need not fear questioning such policies, but in Poland and Yugoslavia, lands of 'public help and welfare' of 'no corruption' they banish you to harsh gulags.

    I am currently asking the United States Congress to put away millions of dollars to provide for your welfare. When you are liberated, I am planning on providing everyone with public needs, such as electricity and health-care. This money is your money. I am also asking the United States Congress to provide funds to help re-build the Danish infrastructure. Have the Soviets contributed the same funds to re-build West Germany? To assist Norway or Denmark? No. They have not.

    In my final statement, I am willing to cease all NATO hostilities against the Yugoslavian government. If accepted by Josef Tito, the pre-war borders will be re-established. The United States government will pay the Italian government to re-build. We will pay the Yugoslavian government for any destruction caused by NATO bombing or soldiers. We will carry on the war against the Soviet Union and her allies, but we offer this peace to the Yugoslavian government. I know that the people of Yugoslavia love their country, and their Communism. I know that the communism you promote is not the same as the Soviet Union, and should be valued.

    People of Europe and America, I ask you to think on this issue, thank you, and good-night.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  3. #153
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Message from Josip Broz Tito

    Mr. Johnson,

    While I appreciate your message of peace, I must question a few things. First of all, you claimed to understand differences between Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, and then minutes later slander the Yugoslav name by accusing us of sending dissenters to GULAG camps. Either you are lying and do not understand the differences between myself and the Soviet Union, or you are a hypocrite. I consider you to be a rather intelligent man, so I will assume the latter.

    Meanwhile, you claim that all are treated equal in America. Tell me, how much voice do the Natives Americans have? So many have been put on reservations, separating them from the rest of society. Tell me, how many Native Americans are in the white house? How many Japanese Americans or African Americans are in the white house? None, that's how many. America is ruled by whites who have, historically and recently, attempted to dominate other races and societies. You claim that all can express their views without retribution. Tell me, how many of the communist party have been unfairly audited and deprived of jobs, merely because of their political beliefs? America discriminates in its own way against non-capitalists, only in a way that is harder to detect. What of Joseph McCarthy? That such a discrace of a human being could ever have made it to the rank of senator shows just how much political discrimination Americans are willing to put up with. Only when he approached his fellow senators in a drunken haze was he removed from a position of influence. You speak of these detestable GULAG camps. Tell me, what of your own camps? I know for a fact that many Japanese Americans were put into detainment camps during the second great war, merely because of their ancestry. Their property and wealth was taken, and added to the government's war fund. How have these people been compensated for their government's blatant discrimination?

    Mr. Johnson. I thank you for your reasonable offer. However, I despise the arrogance and hypocricy from which you speak. In the future, if you do not wish to lengthen your list of enemies, I advise you to watch your tongue.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  4. #154
    Member Member Derfasciti's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Ah, the words of an American capitalist. The promises of grander life for the "destitute" citizens of Warsaw Pact countries. Promises of bread, money infrastructure, life. The very same promises so many of the Bourgeois promised the peasantry. The people here have that and more. And they don't need or want capitalism. Your words are as hollow as your head if you truly think you can win over the minds of the Warsaw Pact's people with such delusional lies.

    Tell me, President Johnson, what have you done for your poverty stricken? What have you done for the Native Americans (as President Tito smartly pointed out)? And yet, here you are promising such seemingly lofty ideals as that to the hard workers of the Warsaw Pact's citizenry when you yourself don't do it for your own country. I am not surprised when you do so much pandering to disciplined people as you do on your campaign trail. But I am terribly embarrased for you.

    I can make promises too, and unlike yourself sir, I can and will keep them and am actually in a position to do so. West Germany's remaining forces, having been soundly defeated by the Warsaw Pact is given the opportunity to open negotiations with the Warsaw Pact for surrender. Until then, a provisional government will be set up in Kassel to meet the needs of the liberated West Germans. I promise more than a fair hearing to show that even in victory, socialists will be gracious.

    Perhaps it is with the sudden and decisive power that brought almost the whole of West Germany liberated in under a week that you seek peace with my friend, President Tito? Rest assured that it is obvious to all of us that you are seeking peace so quickly because you fear defeat. I thank President Tito for his steadfast resolve and he may be assured that he will receive the same from me and his allies.


    I also wish to take this time to comend the great skill with which all Warsaw Pact forces, in particular Czech and Yugoslav forces perform.

    Your hypocricy and your lies are self-evident, sir. And the inevitability of the fall of Capitalism is clearer than ever.
    First Secretary Rodion Malinovsky of the C.P.S.U.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86316


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    "I can do anything I want, I'm eccentric! HAHAHA!"-Rat Race

    Do you think the Golden Rule should apply to masochists as well?

    92% of teens have moved onto rap. If you are part of the 8% that still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your signature. yes that's right i dont listen rap..

  5. #155
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Post Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    From President Johnson
    I hoped that I made my intentions clear, but if I failed to do so, then I will state it again.
    I know Yugoslavia's communism is different than Soviet communism.
    Soviet communism is corrupt and inefficient.
    The Soviet
    Government
    has
    GULAGs.

    I am disappointed that you have chosen to bring up the issue of Native Americans. They are Americans. You cannot deny that. I was not around to prevent the atrocities that occurred. However, I am going to prevent the atrocities of today.

    The GULAGs. The Kulak liquidation. The Chechen and Cossack suppression. I will not stand for those civil rights abuses. As such, I am also asking the Congress of th United States to begin a 'Front on Poverty' to assist the elderly, the men and women of the inner-city, and the people of Appalachia. I am also offering the bill for 'Medicare' and 'Medicaid'. Finally, I am offering the Native Americans the ability to re-located off-reservations for the next five years.
    Tito, how many Serbians and Muslims do you have in your council? How many Croats? None.
    U.S.S.R., how many kulaks do you have in your council. How many Chechens? None.
    I would also like to tell every West German, you are not alone. How many Danes were like you, their nation taken over by the Soviets? Yet the U.S.S.R. was not willing to talk to you. When I suggested that families be re-united and moved across the borders, he turned me down, citing 'espionage' and 'sabotage' as reasons to keep families apart. Yet now he graciously tries to call you in, to re-unite you with your family, an offer that I had offered before. See his hypocrisy for what it is.
    Despite your obvious hypocrisy, I am going to hire the Native American Johnathon Blackstone as my Native American adviser, and Julian Jefferson as my African-American adviser. They will join me, every day, in the United States White House. They are two men who have worked long and hard to achieve equal rights for their brothers and friends. As such, they will be rewarded with the position they deserve.
    Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Good luck to all the brave West Germans and Americas.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  6. #156
    Member Member Derfasciti's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    OOC: Tran, getting plans coordinated. Will hopefully send in my decisions to you later today when they're finally hashed out with my allies.
    First Secretary Rodion Malinovsky of the C.P.S.U.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86316


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    "I can do anything I want, I'm eccentric! HAHAHA!"-Rat Race

    Do you think the Golden Rule should apply to masochists as well?

    92% of teens have moved onto rap. If you are part of the 8% that still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your signature. yes that's right i dont listen rap..

  7. #157
    Rex Pelasgorum et Valachorum Member Rex_Pelasgorum's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    I have decided to take Poland, so here is the situation of the country in the 60`s.

    POLITICAL ISSUES (internal troubles also...)

    Gomułka period (1956–1970)

    By the mid-1960s, Poland was starting to experience economic, as well as political, difficulties. Like all the Communist regimes, Poland was spending too much on heavy industry, armaments and prestige projects, and too little on consumer production. The end of collectivization returned the land to the peasants,but most of their farms were too small to be efficient, so productivity in agriculture remained low. Economic relations with West Germany were frozen because of the impasse over the Oder-Neisse line. Gomułka chose to ignore the economic crisis, and his autocratic methods prevented the major changes required to prevent a downward economic spiral.

    By the 1960s, other government officials had begun to plot against Gomułka. His security chief, Mieczysław Moczar, a wartime Communist partisan commander, formed a new faction, "the Partisans", based on principles of Communist nationalism and anti-inteligencja and anti-Jewish sentimentThe Party boss in Upper Silesia, Edward Gierek, who unlike most of the Communist leaders was a genuine product of the working class, also emerged as a possible alternative leader.

    In March 1968 student demonstrations at Warsaw University broke out when the government banned the performance of a play by Adam Mickiewicz (Dziady, written in 1824) at the Polish Theatre in Warsaw, on the grounds that it contained "anti-Soviet references". In what became known as the March 1968 events Moczar used this affair as a pretext to launch an anti-intellectual and anti-Semitic press campaign (although the expression "anti-Zionist" was the one officially used) whose real goal was to weaken the pro-reform liberal faction.Approximately 20,000 Jews lost their jobs and had to emigrate.

    The communist government reacted in several ways to the March events. One was an official approval for demonstrating Polish national feelings, including the scaling down of official criticism of the prewar Polish regime, and of Poles who had fought in the anti-Communist wartime partisan movement, the Armia Krajowa. The second was the complete alienation of the regime from the leftist intelligentsia, who were disgusted at the official promotion of anti-Semitism. Many Polish intellectuals opposed the campaign, some openly, and Moczar's security apparatus became as hated as Berman's had been. The third was the founding by Polish Emigrants to the West of organizations that encouraged opposition within Poland. The campaign damaged Poland's reputation abroad, particularly in the United States

    Two things saved Gomułka's regime at this point. First, the Soviet Union, now led by Leonid Brezhnev, made it clear that it would not tolerate political upheaval in Poland at a time when it was trying to deal with the crisis in Czechoslovakia. In particular, the Soviets made it clear that they would not allow Moczar, whom they suspected of anti-Soviet nationalism, to be leader of Poland. Secondly, the workers refused to rise up against the regime, partly because they distrusted the intellectual leadership of the protest movement, and partly because Gomułka placated them with higher wages. The Catholic Church, while protesting against police violence against demonstrating students, was also not willing to support a direct confrontation with the regime.

    In August 1968 the Polish People's Army took part in the invasion of Czechoslovakia. Some Polish intellectuals protested, and Ryszard Siwiec burned himself alive during the official national holiday celebrations. Polish participation in crushing Czech liberal communism (or socialism with a human face, as it was called at that time) further alienated Gomułka from his former liberal supporters. However, in 1970 Gomułka won a political victory when he gained West German recognition of the Oder-Neisse line.The German Chancellor, Willy Brandt, asked on his knees for forgiveness for the crimes of the Nazis (Warschauer Kniefall); this gesture was understood in Poland as being addressed to Poles, although it was actually made at the site of the Warsaw Ghetto and was thus directed primarily toward the Jews. This occurred five years after Polish bishops had issued the famous Letter of Reconciliation of the Polish Bishops to the German Bishops, then heavily criticized by the Polish government.

    Gomułka's temporary political success could not mask the economic crisis into which Poland was drifting. Although the system of fixed, artificially low food prices kept urban discontent under control, it caused stagnation in agriculture and made more expensive food imports necessary. This situation was unsustainable, and in December 1970, the regime suddenly announced massive increases in the prices of basic foodstuffs. It is possible that the price rises were imposed on Gomułka by enemies of his in the Party leadership who planned to maneuver him out of power. The raised prices were unpopular among many urban workers. Gomułka believed that the agreement with West Germany had made him more popular, but in fact most Poles seemed to feel that since the Germans were no longer a threat to Poland, they no longer needed to tolerate the Communist regime as a guarantee of Soviet support for the defense of the Oder-Neisse line.

    POLISH ARMY :

    Polish army : it was organized in six military districts, was prepared to defent a country from a possible new invasion from the West. Until 1956 it was increasingly tied to the Soviet structures.

    Soviet military equipment was used, and n late 40s and early 50s the Polish Army was under the command of Soviet general Konstantin Rokossovsky and was increasingly tied into the Soviet structures. This process was however stopped in 1956.
    Dogma nemuririi sufletului îi fãcea curajosi fãrã margini, dispretuitori fatã de orice pericol, poftitori de moarte (apetitus morti) luptãtori cu hotarâre si cu o întreprindere de speriat.
    (Metianus Capella)


  8. #158

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Boo! Commies!!!

    Er... I mean: "The French Republic calls on for all Frenchmen to defend their homes, their families, their friends. Foreign invaders had set foot in our land of democracy, and threatens to destroy us forever. Will we let them? No! We will fight them in the fields, we will fight them in villages, we will fight them in the troubled region of Aquitaine, we will fight them in our cities! With the might our American and British allies supporting our beleagered country, I ask you, and all loyal Frenchmen this, will you do your duty for your country? Your Republic?"

    (President de Gaulle goes back into his office and fired his speech writer, and resolves to find a better, more original one)


  9. #159
    Member Member Derfasciti's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    First Secretary Rodion Malinovsky of the C.P.S.U.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86316


    12th Century Glory!
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    "I can do anything I want, I'm eccentric! HAHAHA!"-Rat Race

    Do you think the Golden Rule should apply to masochists as well?

    92% of teens have moved onto rap. If you are part of the 8% that still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your signature. yes that's right i dont listen rap..

  10. #160
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Josip Tito's Adress to the Yugoslavian Public

    My fair people,

    Many of you have been wondering why Yugoslavia has sided with the Warsaw Pact. I respect the fact that so many of you wished answers as to why, and I shall give you them. It was made quite clear by the nations of NATO that they would not stand for Communism or Socialism. They slandered us, called us, 'the epitomy of evil', and made blatant hostile remarks towards communism. Should NATO emerge victorius in this war, do you think that they would leave us alone as a neutral state? No, they would march in to our homelands, and tear our government apart, reduce roads and towns to rubble, and cause immense suffering. Witness what has happened to Austria. They have no interests in this affair, and yet, NATO blatantly ignored their rights as a neutral nation. And Austria in not even a communist, whom they seem to despise. If they are willing to violate the rights of a neutral country who isn't communits, what would they do to the people of a nation who is? I realized that the only way to ensure our survival was to join forces with Warsaw, who have been nothing short of generous to our nation. It was either that, or risk annihilation by a victorius NATO.

    NATO has attempted to diffuse our resolve, by claiming to understand differences between Yugoslav communism and Soviet communism. Yet their actions have repeatedly showed that they are incapable of deciphering even such minor differences. Look at America's attitude towards China and North Korea. Rather than acknowledging the people's choice of government, the United States accuses them of being puppet states, a most greivous insult to civilizations far older and more cultured than their own. They even went so far at to attempt the annihiliation of the North Korean government, so that they could prop up a puppet South Korean government. My people, there was no way I could trust the words of the snake that is America. They have attempted to sweet talk their way out of their hypocrisy, but cannot hide their venomous intentions from me. Lastly, I promise that soon this war will be over, and our bravest citizens that are serving our armed forces shall return soon intact. Onwards to victory, my people! To a world where we no longer fear the shadow cast by NATO! To a world where all can live in peace!
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  11. #161
    Member Member Derfasciti's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    OOC: This speech is my response to order #8 for this chapter.



    To my countrymen, comrades, and allies abroad.

    I adress you this night to allay your fears and your grief. Sons of our motherlands have died. Civilians have suffered the dread effects of total war. American bombs drop on homes and the inevitable Warsaw Pact bomb as well. Accolades are to be given to you who have lost. And we will award you materially for it. Although this cannot bring back such grievous losses, it may just help your mourning in the tiniest of ways. Unfortunately, humanity has it's weaknesses and grief is one of them. Embrace it, and know that your losses was for the greater good and you will understand it in your life time. This destruction is unfortunate and a tragedy. But war is still war and we must perservere, united in our cause to destroy the western imperialists and capitalist expansionism. This is not some myth to rally people to the banner and to die in droves for a faceless leadership who would not sacrifice with you. This is a real and powerful enemy who would see our way of life, and the ultimate Marxist ideal erased from the pages of world history. We will bleed for and with you. I will bleed for you.

    Countless government officials children have contributed their lives to the war effort. Their blood speaks for them. I will not tolerate favoritism in our Socialist society. So too then, must we all make sacrifices at home to contribute to the war effort. I present a proposal to the people of the USSR that government officials will take a general 25% cut to their living expense needs. I will personally take a 50% cut. In essence, we will try to live on a subsistence basis, thereby contributing to the war effort and lessening the necessity for the common factory worker, the one who makes our society function, to personally suffer. I realize government corruption is an issue in some districts and republics, this will be stamped out as quickly and ferociously as any capitalist agent would be.

    To my allies abroad I promise a continued friendship and aid during these dark times (although much darker for our enemies, I am happy to say). There have been rumblings of discontent, in particular in Poland. Let me assure the Polish people and their honorable peoples army that they are valued by the Soviet Union, and value has its rewards. Do not stand against those who would seek to aid you. Protect your way of life, and it will be to your benefit. We are going through some of the harsher stages of Marxism-Leninism. Lenin himself recognized the inevitability of this stage of history. And like all the others, we will pass through this like all the others better and stronger for it. Question not your officers, and fight on for your families. And for the system that will eventually bring the world the Utopian ideal that men for centuries upon centuries dreamed of. Your fighting will make this dream a reality and our children's children will thank you for it. I promise you.

    To the enlightened workers and intelligentsia of NATO-occupied countries. I extend friendship and aid. People of Italy, your armed forces are all but destroyed. But without a socialist government we both know that the Italian fascists will try yet again to put you into a war in which you neither belong in or want. Rise up, and stop this worthless war and end the loss of Italian life. The same, in fact applies to all the NATO peoples.

    May eternal history choose to smile on us as we go through this stage of it. We shall prevail. Ironically, a quote from an American politician centuries ago, in an effort to throw off the yoke of oppression before they too years later became an engine for tyranny of an entire hemisphere, comes to mind. "Give me Liberty of give me death". If we are to survive, we must always be aware of the mortality of our system. And it is only with constant vigilence, and constant heroism such that we have shown since the beggining of this war, that will we survive.

    Thank you and good night.
    Last edited by Derfasciti; 09-11-2007 at 03:00.
    First Secretary Rodion Malinovsky of the C.P.S.U.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86316


    12th Century Glory!
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    "I can do anything I want, I'm eccentric! HAHAHA!"-Rat Race

    Do you think the Golden Rule should apply to masochists as well?

    92% of teens have moved onto rap. If you are part of the 8% that still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your signature. yes that's right i dont listen rap..

  12. #162
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    To Josef Tito.

    I am sorry that you have so short a memory to have forgotten the Stalinist approach and his rhetoric against your nation. In response to 'not recognizing a Communist government' I, President Johnson, have officially recognized the People's Republic of China and the People's Republic of Vietnam. These are communist nations, who I will recognize not as foes, but as legitimiate nations.
    Last edited by Marshal Murat; 09-11-2007 at 21:37.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  13. #163
    Assistant Mod Mod Member GiantMonkeyMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    OOC: that brings up an interesting point, i know we're focusing on europe but do you think you could summerise (not a full blown chapter or anything) what's going on in the rest of the world, please Tran... MM just said he was declaring an alliance with two other communist countries but

    if possible could we just have something along the lines of:
    -North Korea communist invading South Korea, american bases fighting back and losing
    - China allies with america

    or whatever so we know how well/bad we're doing in the rest of the world... just a simple description, please, so we can base parts of our later plans on world-wide politics
    Last edited by GiantMonkeyMan; 09-11-2007 at 16:53.

  14. #164
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    OOC:Bad choice of words. I am not allied to the Chinese of Vietnamese (yet :) )
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  15. #165
    The Real Ad miN Member Tran's Avatar
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    Post Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Here we go:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    North Korea attacked South Korea within few days after the war in Europe, using "preemptive strike against imperialist aggression" as its justification. There were many fierce and bloody battles. Right now, half of South Korea territory was virtually held by the communist forces. Further south, the United States had pulled out all troops from South Vietnam. Knowing that South Vietnam no longer had US military support, North Vietnam, with the support of local Vietnamese guerrillas, launched ground offensive and managed to capture several cities near the Ho Chi Minh Trail and DMZ.

    China itself, despite its "neutrality policy" regarding war in Europe, strongly support North Korea and North Vietnam military offensive, supplying both countries with military aid. China also seized the opportunity to launch aerial attack against Taiwan, and it was reported that Chinese forces have prepared to "reclaim Taiwan by all means"

    Just south of Vietnam, another conflict escalated between forces of Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, and United Kingdom, against Indonesia and local Malayan communist guerrillas.

    In the Middle East, Israel came under simultaneous attack from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Iraq also sent several thousands troops to assist the offensive. However, realizing the difficulty Israel faced, Iran immediately launched offensive against Iraq and was forced to involve in a bitter and protracted war. Saudi Arabia has also mobilized its troops along the northern border, prepared to assist and defeat hostile aggressors.

    The United States had imposed naval and aerial blockade of Cuba, however no troops has been sent to the Cuban soil. Despite this, several Cubans (including Che Guevara) have successfully instigated revolution in Bolivia. This has worried some nearby pro-US countries.

    On the Bering Sea and Strait (between Alaska and Russia), large naval and aerial battle have erupted and continue to escalate between the Americans and Soviets. While on the Pacific Ocean, Soviet Navy and Air Force launched frequent raids against American bases in Hawaii.
    Medieval 2: Total War Guide to Traits and Retinue
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    World War 3 erupted in mid-1960's: NATO - Warsaw Pact Conflict multiplayer Interactive, choose one from several available countries

  16. #166

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    We are losing? Isn't capitalism supposed to be better than communism???

    I think its about time for another one of President de Gaulle's inspiring speeches, I'll post one tomorrow


  17. #167
    Assistant Mod Mod Member GiantMonkeyMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    capitalism only seems better than communism because it won in the end in the real-world but, at the risk of giving you hope, you're not losing too badly at the moment... we're only (technically) about a month or so into the war and it could still turn either way; nothing's concrete


    thanks Tran, you've shed some light on the wider picture

    GMM

  18. #168

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Don't try to persuade me with your propganda you evil commies!!!

    Anyway, we of the diplomatic world hopes that more countries would come to their senses and join the brotherhood of friends and allies that is NATO. (Plus we hope our supreme overlord, the might USA, and their devious planners's carefully devised plan for total communism trashing will be successful...)


  19. #169

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    I'm going to have to withdraw from this,
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  20. #170
    " Hammer of the East" Member King Kurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Tran - any news on an update??
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  21. #171
    The Real Ad miN Member Tran's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Been very busy lately, hopefully I can post the next chapter some time soon (probably next month)
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    World War 3 erupted in mid-1960's: NATO - Warsaw Pact Conflict multiplayer Interactive, choose one from several available countries

  22. #172
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Don't worry about the chapter
    All you have to say is
    'NATO Triumphs'
    And then we can all celebrate!
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  23. #173
    Assistant Mod Mod Member GiantMonkeyMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    take your time with the chapter, as long as it retains the amazing standard (aka: commies kicking ass) you have used in the past then everything will be alright...

  24. #174

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Boo!!!!!!!
    The Communist States and its ideology is utterly corrupt, and its past victories solely based on sheer numbers, and not its experience or technology. And as such, the French Republic and her allies are fully confident of an eventual victory, similar to the two great wars before.


  25. #175
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    I usually do not comment any posts in alternative historysection, but I have few words to add about this... I will hide those in spoilers so it will be visable only to the people who really want to see them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Pelasgorum
    I have decided to take Poland, so here is the situation of the country in the 60`s.

    In August 1968 the Polish People's Army took part in the invasion of Czechoslovakia. Some Polish intellectuals protested, and Ryszard Siwiec burned himself alive during the official national holiday celebrations. Polish participation in crushing Czech liberal communism (or socialism with a human face, as it was called at that time) further alienated Gomułka from his former liberal supporters.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Actually from other sources - a series of articles was published about those events in a number of newspapers - we know that the invasion was seen as shameful by the ordinary people - Czechs were never seen as enemies and no propaganda could make them look like an imperialist enemy - it would be like calling Luxemburg an evil empire - nobody believe such silly lies. Two - the soldiers sent to invade were never used to anything more than a formal occupation of some areas of low priority and importance - aggression was directed towards the Soviets. In a way Poles were Soviet 'italians' during the invasion - just like Hungarians in Poland during the 2nd WW they were seen as people who had no other choice.



    However, in 1970 Gomułka won a political victory when he gained West German recognition of the Oder-Neisse line.The German Chancellor, Willy Brandt, asked on his knees for forgiveness for the crimes of the Nazis (Warschauer Kniefall); this gesture was understood in Poland as being addressed to Poles, although it was actually made at the site of the Warsaw Ghetto and was thus directed primarily toward the Jews.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Brandt's gesture was understood as directed towards the Poles because of the destruction the Germans brought to Warsaw ( 97 % of the city was destroyed) and because of the supressed memory of the Warsaw Uprising 1944 which had no memorial, no monument and its memory was still a taboo to the communists.
    Afer war Warsaw had very little to do with pre-war multinational community - there were no non-catholic Poles left and memory about the old city was little more than a legend - except the Uprising of 1944, actually. The Ghetto monument was actually erected to play this event against the larger uprising and was seen as a part of cover up process to remove the later revolt from the memory.



    In addition I would also add that the Polish army was the only one which COULDN'T escape its historical vistories against the Russians ( andti-Soviet wars of 1918-20 and 1939-45 were a taboo) and cooperation with the allies or earlier part in the American Revolution... For this and other resons ( like millions large US Polish community) Soviet Union was seen as the real enemy and any action against the western states would be extremely unpopular inside Poland and in its armed forces sent anywhere abroad. Only antrocities like nuking bigger polish cities could change it somehow, but the sheer dislike of the eastern civilisation, the 'asiatic hordes' was so strong that even in this situation the thist for revenge would also be directed towards the Soviets - at least to some degree. Thhough there was no alternative government or faction able to grasp the power at thet time it might be the Catholic Church ( Wyszynski, others) which would affect the situation much in efforts to avoid the conflict with the west. It is also important to remember that sending any POlish forces abroad would mean bringing some Soviet army to Poland as well and that would provoke numerous incidents and might even start a mutiny in certain units of the army - especially the navy or the airforce.
    There are numerous other possibilities, but I would exclude one for sure - no massive change in the government - alternative structures were still too weak - it is not 1976-89 after all.

  26. #176

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Tis October now... will the forces of NATO triumph in the forthcoming chapter?


  27. #177
    The Real Ad miN Member Tran's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    CHAPTER 5

    2 November 1964 – 8 November 1964

    Early morning at northern Norwegian Sea, off the coast of northern Norway. One can see from Hammerfest battle between ships of Soviet and United States Navy. Elements of Soviet Northern Fleet, consisted more than 50 submarines and 30 surface warships met and battled the combined fleet of US Second Fleet and Norwegian Navy, consisted of around 20 submarines and 45 surface warships. The battle lasted long and intense with both sides made maneuvers and attempted to sink each others. The Norwegian coastal defense forces also provided help to NATO fleet. The battle came to a near draw and inconclusive, but in the end, both sides retreated. NATO suffered losses of about 10 submarines and 25 surface warships, compared to Soviet losses of approximately 15 submarines and 20 surface warships. Several surface warships from both sides were also heavily damaged and in urgent need of repairs. In Finnmark itself, Soviet forces continued the offensive toward Lakselv through the barren landscape. The Soviets not only discovered most of the civilian populations have been evacuated, but also surprised to encounter no NATO troops in the area. In addition, the military bases and nearly all infrastructures have been destroyed. The Soviets were unable to advance further west from Lakselv due to the situation and lack of supplies. Elsewhere in Norway, tens of thousands of Norwegian Home Guard and reserves have completed mobilization with more increasing build-up of troops are expected to be seen in the coming weeks. In Sweden, similar military build-ups took place and the Prime Minister repeatedly warned the nation of “possible Soviet invasion” of the country.

    In Denmark, NATO forces continued their military operation, with the aid of combined naval fleet and naval aviation, and attempted to recapture several Danish islands east of Jutland Peninsula. On the first day, NATO still held near absolute naval and air superiority in the region. But later, as many ships were withdrawn for another operation elsewhere in Europe, coupled with additional strong counter-offensive by Warsaw Pact forces, NATO forces found themselves in difficult situation. The first counter-offensive came in the form of aerial bombardments and assault conducted by joint Warsaw Pact air forces. Over 700 combat aircraft from East Germany, Poland, and USSR participated in this counter-offensive operation, in addition several dozens strategic bombers from Soviet Air Force were also sent. More than half of NATO surface warships in the area were either sunk or heavily damaged, including two American and one Canadian aircraft carriers which sunk after frequent attack. Nearly all of Danish airfields and seaports were also heavily damaged and rendered useless. Aerial battle also marked the first two days of the week. After air superiority was gained, the second counter-offensive in the form of combined naval assault followed, the already decimated NATO fleet was defeated by united Warsaw Pact Baltic Fleet consisted of at least two dozens submarines and 40 warships and eventually, only few NATO surface warships and submarines which managed to retreat into the North Sea remain. Landing operations in eastern Jutland Peninsula and ground assault from Germany, in which more than 25,000 Soviet troops participated, were the third and final blow to the remaining NATO forces in the area. After several bloody battles, the last remnants of NATO troops surrendered at Alborg. At the cost of around 3,800 lives and 70 aircraft and four strategic bombers, Warsaw Pact forces have again captured Denmark from NATO. About 5,600 NATO troops and around 4,000 East German and Polish mutineers were captured and taken prisoners. Under direct order from Warsaw, several hundreds Polish mutineers were summarily executed. News of this event reached Gdańsk, and led to unrest in the Polish city. Another event took place as the King of Denmark was killed when the Soviet helicopter which took him out of the country was shot down during the intense heat of battle. It was not clear who was responsible for the actual death. Both NATO and Warsaw Pact commanders continue to blame each others.

    At France, Benelux countries, and West Germany, both NATO and Warsaw Pact forces geared up for their military operations. Following the previous withdrawal of Soviet and Polish forces from Netherlands, NATO forces did not miss the opportunity to rebuild and fortify defenses along the Ems River. Another ring of defenses were also built in the Belgian and Dutch capital. Meanwhile, both sides have also brought lots of reinforcements. More than 130,000 NATO troops, which mostly composed of French, were deployed in the Benelux countries. Meanwhile, several thousands new troops from the Canadian and Portuguese armed forces arrived in France and were immediately deployed to the frontline. Over 100,000 Soviet troops with thousands of tanks have entered West Germany, ready to reinforce over 150,000 Soviet and 60,000 Czechoslovak troops already located in the country. Around 30,000 East German soldiers have also entered West Germany and began the occupation role of captured West German territories. NATO and Warsaw Pact offensive began immediately and almost at the same time. Along the Ems River, approximately 30,000 NATO troops which have anticipated the arrival of Warsaw Pact forces fought bitter defensive battles. Not long, NATO found themselves outnumbered and unable to hold defenses any longer without losing more than half of their troops. The retreating NATO forces were pursued by Warsaw Pact troops into Netherlands and the pursuit were only stopped several kilometers north of Rhine River, after the city of Apeldoorn and NATO air base of Soesterberg were captured, with counter-attack by over 50,000 French and several thousands other NATO troops from the south. NATO also aimed their counter-offensive toward Xanten and Bonn, where they battled large number of Soviet troops holding both cities. NATO also started to employ more night-bombing tactic to halt and destroy Warsaw Pact ground troops and bases. The use of napalm bombs against concentration of Warsaw Pact troops also became more frequent and numerous bridges were blown to prevent further Soviet offensive. Despite some success and casualties inflicted, these were unable stem the tide of the advancing Warsaw Pact forces, although in many occasions these did slow their advance and gave NATO forces more time to reorganize and fortify defenses. Attempt to demoralize and confuse Warsaw Pact troops were also made by dropping large numbers of leaflets from NATO aircraft, although many leaflets were dropped in West Germany and caused some confusions, all of these aircraft were shot down before they could reach East German border. Whereas the offensive in Netherlands was halted by strong NATO counter-offensive, the offensive toward France went relatively unbroken. These were supported by the fact that it involved large number of Warsaw Pact troops, more than 80,000 Soviet and 30,000 Czechoslovak troops, greatly outnumbered the French defenders, since most of the French troops were deployed already in the Benelux. The city of Strasbourg and Mulhouse were the first to be captured by Warsaw Pact forces, later more French towns and cities fell under Warsaw Pact’s control, with Reims, Troyes, and Dijon became the last cities to be captured near the end of the week. The rapid collapse and defeat of French forces caused panic and sparked massive uprising in Paris and Toulouse. French attempt to quell riots in Bordeaux and Aquitaine region by bringing more security forces from other region was proven to be largely unsuccessful, with many rioters, which mostly composed of leftists, involved in gunfight with French security forces. French Communist Party also made broadcast claiming “the end of De Gaulle’s rule” and the establishment of new “Socialist Republic of France”. Waves of refugees were reported in southern France, with the majority headed toward Spain.

    Following the speech by Italian Prime Minister, the riots over the city of Rome and Florence appeared to have calmed down, although occasional shootings and arrest still take place. Over 10,000 Italian troops were sent to Rome by the end of the week to tighten security and guard the capital. However, at Bologna, the speech only divided the Italian public with many left-wingers and communist sympathizers openly defied the government, the situation deteriorated further after the declaration of new “Italian Socialist Republic”, supported mainly by the communist party. This was shortly followed by the establishment of its armed wing, the “Italian Revolutionary Front”. Street battles between thousands of Italian troops sent to the city and the newly-found Italian Revolutionary Front became common scenes. Meanwhile, as the combined Soviet-Yugoslav forces continue to advance toward Italian cities to the west, several thousands Hungarian troops entered Italy and started the occupational role of Italian cities near the Italian-Yugoslav border. The Italian Air Force employed night-bombing tactic on Warsaw Pact positions and attempted to enter Yugoslav airspace, however these were proven to be disaster as out of the originally 120 aircraft sent, only 34 managed to return safely back to their bases. The combat aircraft of joint Soviet and Yugoslavia continued to patrol the sky and effectively denied Italian capability to control the sky, these were backed by numerous anti-aircraft guns brought into Italy and western Yugoslavia. Without any significant air support, the Italian ground forces failed to stop Warsaw Pact advance. Although the city of Venice was not captured due to all bridges linked to the island city were blown and support by Italian naval bombardments, Treviso, Padova, Vicenza and Ferrara fell into Warsaw Pact. Eventually the Soviet and Yugoslav troops reached the city of Bologna where they were greeted and hailed by members of the Italian Revolutionary Front after a Yugoslav military spokesman declared “new age of prosperity”, the battered Italian troops soon found themselves outnumbered and retreat into both Parma and Florence. The city of Verona was not captured by Warsaw Pact forces due to heavy presence of Italian troops, armored columns, and stiff resistance. Overall, the Italian military lost more than 16,000 of its troops, with approximately another 10,000 troops captured by the Warsaw Pact forces. While the joint Soviet-Yugoslav forces lost nearly 10,000 troops. The news of Italian military defeat spread rapidly and triggered chaos in the city of Genoa and Milan, where many thousands people openly declared their support to the “Italian Socialist Republic”.

    In the Balkan, NATO forces continue to employ night bombing operations in large scale, with Yugoslavia became the primary target. With more than 100 B-52 strategic bombers and 200 combat aircraft, NATO succeeded in destroying many Yugoslav airfields in Macedonia, Montenegro, and southern Serbia during the first night. The following night, the capital city, Belgrade, was subject to heavy bombardments by NATO. As a result, numerous infrastructures in the city were laid in ruins. After the bombardments of Belgrade, a broadcast was aired from Turkey declaring “death of Marshall Tito” and end of Socialist Yugoslavia, these were followed by appeal to set up independent republics. However, the broadcast was immediately refuted by Yugoslav officials. Sign of secessionist is remain to be seen. In the third night, NATO began to target concentration of Yugoslav troops, in which the majority of them managed to retreat back into Yugoslavia after destroying road and railway access into Greece. However, the mountainous terrain of the country prevented any effective bombing operations. Eventually the bombers and fighters were diverted for operation at Caucasus. The whole bombing operations cost NATO nearly 20 B-52 bombers and 50 combat aircraft while Yugoslavia lost more than 90 of its combat aircraft. To the east, in Eastern Thrace, Greek and Turkish forces began counter-offensive against the retreating Warsaw Pact troops. Under the cover of air superiority, backed by more than 100 combat aircraft from American naval aviation and local air force, they successfully inflicted heavy casualties on Warsaw Pact forces. The counter-offensive operation was also supported by Turkish guerillas. During the retreat into Bulgaria, Warsaw Pact forces applied scorched earth policy and left virtually nothing to the advancing Greek and Turkish forces. Out of approximately 100,000 Warsaw Pact troops in the area, no more than 50,000 managed to return to Bulgaria alive. The rest were either killed or captured by NATO forces. Both Greek and Turkish forces suffered around 8,000 and 6,800 killed, with several thousands other wounded. Up to 25,000 Greek and Turkish captives were released. Despite the success of the counter-offensive, the scorched earth policy committed by Warsaw Pact forces managed to halt further movement into Bulgaria. By the end of the week, NATO air force switched their targets to the Warsaw Pact Black Sea fleet and with superior numbers managed to sink up to 30 warships near Eastern Thrace for the lost of only eight combat aircraft.

    The battle in southwest Georgia escalated with the deployment of Soviet airborne division consisted of more than 10,000 men, which parachuted right into Batumi. Soviet main ground forces up north were unable to reach the area due to all vital road access being destroyed in the last week bombing, and were only able to support with artillery barrages. Several ships of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet also assisted the Soviet paratroopers attempt to recapture Batumi. Both Soviet and Turkish troops struggled to control the area, and the battle for Batumi came without any conclusive outcome. Few days later, American bombers and fighters which were diverted from Yugoslavia arrived and conducted night bombing operation on Tbilisi, just moment after most of the Soviet combat aircraft engaged what appeared to be “diversionary aircraft move” by NATO and returned to the air base near the city. Soon, thirty of these Soviet combat aircraft were destroyed right on their base without any chance to retaliate. Elsewhere, in the capital of Armenian SSR, Yerevan, there was a mass “anti-Turkish rally” by over 20,000 ethnic Armenians. The rally was supported by the local government and reached its peak when several clashes between Soviet Armenian and Turkish border guards occurred.

    Decisions
    …will affect the events from 9 November 1964 to 15 November 1964…

    NATO States

    1. Map of the latest situation in France
    2. Map of the latest situation in Netherlands


    United States of America

    1. Clashes between American and Soviet fleet in northern Norwegian Sea were inconclusive. Despite this, the Soviet advance at northern Norway was stopped at Lakselv. What to do about the situation?
    2. The counter-offensive by combined Warsaw Pact forces at Denmark managed to destroy air and naval superiority previously held by NATO. Numerous NATO ships, including two American aircraft carriers were sunk, and Denmark once again came under Warsaw Pact’s control. What to do about the situation?
    3. The tragic death of King of Denmark, what is the American government view?
    4. After the rapid collapse of French defenses, numerous uprising sparked in that country and the fall of Paris seems very imminent. The nearest available reinforcements rested with NATO forces at Benelux, but pulling them into France will leave the Benelux countries virtually exposed. What is the strategy?
    5. The bombing operations at Yugoslavia and Eastern Thrace were again, great success. Despite this, the mountainous terrain of both Yugoslavia and Bulgaria made any bombing against Warsaw Pact forces largely ineffective. What should be done next?
    6. American Second and Sixth Fleet. Where do you want to deploy or redeploy them?


    France

    1. After the rapid collapse of French defenses, numerous uprising sparked within the country and the fall of French capital, Paris, seems very imminent. The nearest available reinforcements rested with NATO forces, especially large number of French troops, at Benelux countries, but pulling them into France will leave the Benelux countries virtually exposed. What is the strategy?
    2. French security forces failed to subdue the riots at Aquitaine region, furthermore numerous uprising have taken place within the country, led mainly by French Communist Party. There was even a declaration of new “Socialist Republic of France”. What to do about the situation?
    3. The bulk of French Atlantic Fleet was withdrawn from around Denmark, just before Warsaw Pact large counter-offensive in that country. Should the Fleet continue to safeguard the English Channel and Strait of Dover, or should they return to Denmark, or somewhere else?
    4. French Mediterranean Fleet. Should the fleet stay at the current location or should they redeploy somewhere else?


    Turkey

    1. The night bombing operations by NATO at Yugoslavia and Eastern Thrace were again, great success. Despite this, the mountainous terrain of both Yugoslavia and Bulgaria made any bombing against Warsaw Pact forces in both countries largely ineffective, and any future offensive toward Bulgaria will very highly depended on ground assault, but this will also be very difficult after the scorched earth policy previously committed by Warsaw Pact forces. What to do about the situation?
    2. Up to 30 Warsaw Pact warships on the Black Sea were sunk after massive air strikes employed by numerous NATO combat aircraft. Naval threats to Eastern Thrace have largely diminished. However, there are still, possibly, large numbers of submarines and surface warships somewhere on the Black Sea, which might become future threat. What should be done next?
    3. The Soviets have deployed an airborne division consisted of over 10,000 troops to recapture Batumi, they are supported by artillery barrages from the north. Batumi and the nearby surrounding area were practically in chaos. What will you do about the situation?
    4. After the mass “anti-Turkish rally” at Yerevan, Armenia, numerous clashes occurred between Soviet and Turkish border guards. It is very possible that sooner or later, other ethnic minorities at eastern part of Turkey will be influenced and revolt against the Turkish government. What to do about the situation?


    Warsaw Pact States

    1. Map of the latest situation in France
    2. Map of the latest situation in Netherlands


    Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

    1. Elements of Soviet Northern Fleet clashed with American fleet in northern Norwegian Sea when it was supporting the Soviet ground offensive, however the battle was inconclusive. Soviet ground offensive at northern Norway was also stopped at Lakselv due to “scorched earth” tactic used by the retreating NATO troops and lack of supplies. What to do next?
    2. Large counter-offensive by combined Warsaw Pact forces have succeed to destroy NATO fleet operating near Denmark and forced the ground troops at Jutland Peninsula to capitulate. What is the next strategy?
    3. The tragic death of King of Denmark and surrender of East German and Polish mutineers, what is the Soviet government view?
    4. Warsaw Pact offensive in Netherlands was met by strong NATO counter-offensive from the southern part of the country, across the Rhine River. Nearby captured West German cities were also targeted by NATO forces from Netherlands and Belgium. What is the next Soviet plan?
    5. Unlike in Netherlands, the Soviet and Czechoslovak forces swiftly knocked out the outnumbered French forces in France and successfully captured several French towns and cities. The fall of Paris seems very imminent. What is your next strategy?
    6. Despite the failure to capture Venice and Verona, the Soviet and Yugoslav forces managed to capture other Italian cities and reached Bologna, where they were welcomed by members of Italian Revolutionary Front. The Italian troops were also forced to retreat into both Parma and Florence. What is your next strategy?
    7. NATO conducted more night bombing operations directed toward both Yugoslavia and Warsaw Pact ground forces at Eastern Thrace. Warsaw Pact casualties are high, however Greek and Turkish offensive were stalled after the scorched earth policy used by the retreating Warsaw Pact troops. Several surface combatants (warships) of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet were also sunk after massive air strikes conducted by NATO. What will you do about the situation?
    8. Although an airborne division has been deployed to recapture Batumi, with the aid of naval bombardments and artillery barrages from the north, the city and surrounding area were not yet recaptured by the Soviets. Furthermore, NATO has conducted bombing operation near Tbilisi airfield and managed to destroy many Soviet combat aircraft. What is your next plan?


    Czechoslovakia

    1. The offensive conducted by Czechoslovak and Soviet forces toward France have swiftly knocked out the outnumbered French forces and successfully captured several French towns and cities. The fall of Paris seems inevitable. What is your next strategy?
    2. There were some confusions and anxieties among Czechoslovak troops in West Germany after propaganda broadcasted and leaflets dropped by NATO aircraft. What to do about the situation?


    Poland

    1. Large counter-offensive by combined Warsaw Pact forces have succeed to destroy NATO fleet operating near Denmark and forced the ground troops at Jutland Peninsula to capitulate. What is the next strategy?
    2. The execution of Polish mutineers at Denmark has led to unrest in Gdańsk. What to do about the situation?
    3. Warsaw Pact offensive in Netherlands was met by strong NATO counter-offensive from the southern part of the country, across the Rhine River. What is your next plan?


    Yugoslavia

    1. Although the city of Venice and Verona were not captured by the Soviet and Yugoslav forces. The joint forces successfully captured other Italian cities and reached Bologna, where they were welcomed by members of Italian Revolutionary Front. The Italian troops were also forced to retreat into both Parma and Florence. What is your next strategy?
    2. NATO has conducted night bombing operations directed toward Yugoslavia and destroyed nearly all airfields at Macedonia, Montenegro, and southern Serbia. The city of Belgrade was also bombed and as a result, numerous infrastructures in the city were laid in ruins. What to do about the situation?
    3. After the bombardments of Belgrade, a broadcast was aired by NATO declaring “death of Marshall Tito” and end of Socialist Yugoslavia, these were followed by appeal to set up independent republics within Yugoslavia.
    Medieval 2: Total War Guide to Traits and Retinue
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    World War 3 erupted in mid-1960's: NATO - Warsaw Pact Conflict multiplayer Interactive, choose one from several available countries

  28. #178
    The Real Ad miN Member Tran's Avatar
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    Deadline for decisions is 21 October (two weeks from now)

    Some details are intentionally vague, I will send detailed report as soon as possible.

    Anyway, some players have been removed from the game and that leave several nations open for play. All nations with no player are controlled by me, and you need to contact me if you want to "move them"
    Medieval 2: Total War Guide to Traits and Retinue
    "Tenderness and kindness are not signs of weakness and despair but manifestations of strength and resolution." - Khalil Gibran

    World War 3 erupted in mid-1960's: NATO - Warsaw Pact Conflict multiplayer Interactive, choose one from several available countries

  29. #179
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Aug 2003
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    Eye of the Hurricane (FL)
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    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    We in the United States are appalled by the destruction of the King of Denmark's helicopter. It was clearly an attempt by the Soviet government to emplace a 'legitimate' government and to turn popular sentiment against the United States and the NATO forces. We are appalled and disgusted that the Soviets would kill the King of Denmark.

    We in the United States are saddened and angered in your murder of the Polish and East Germans. While you may claim that they were mutineers, they were also humans. If any American forces were turned into mutineers, we would treat them as any prisoner-of-war. We would not murder them in cold blood. Do you, people of Poland and Germany, not see what the Soviets do to your brothers and fathers? We ask you to use passive resistance against the unjust tyranny of the Soviet Union and her oppressive and murderous policies.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  30. #180

    Default Re: NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

    You want Paris, Commies? Come and get it!


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