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Thread: The Hyborian Age: Total War

  1. #31

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    When will you guys release a province map?

  2. #32
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    I'll get a blank province map out pretty soon, just prettying it up at the moment.

    Naming the cities & provinces is a bit of a nightmare. Though most of the important ones are fairly easy, coming up with names for others isn't, and since I set out to make a non-pastiche mod this means I'd have to make up an awful lot of places.

    The reasoning for this is that, although the pastiches give us plenty of information on places Howard didn't illuminate, I just flat out disagree with a lot of them. Howard made a point of having his cities bear similarities to historical ones, (Tarantia/Tarentum, Khorshemish/Carchemish, Khawarizm/Khwarezm etc) so it's a general "thing" that he did. However, some cities of the pastiches like Alkarion, Pirogia and Haloga don't seem to have any resemblance to a historical city, and they don't really sound Howardian at all IMHO. Indeed, DeCamp and Carter actually criticized Howard for what they viewed as a lack of imagination (spot the irony), and so they completely made up names despite Howard clearly establishing a convention of naming cities after notable historical ones. He could make up names perfectly fine for his Thurian Age and ancient evil cities, so he obviously designed it this way.

    Hopefully by doing this I can make the mod a bit more Howardian. Plus, I just never really liked the names for Hyperborea's cities.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  3. #33

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranaich
    Hey Majestic, what happened to the other five? (sorry, silly conspiracy reference)
    They stole the Heart of Ahriman and well... you know what tends to happen to people who own that gemstone.

    The idea of Hyperborea being heavy on sorcery is almost entirely a pastiche invention. Nowhere in Howard's original writings is there any implication of sorcery in Hyperborea, it seems just a pretty standard Hyborian Kingdom with more snow. However, since the idea of Hyperborea being a sorcerous nation is extremely popular (and pretty cool), I'm implementing the possibility of the player making Hyperborea into a sorcerous nation through buildings and research on the campaign map. Hyperborea is thus a normal nation at the start of the game, but if the player wants to raise an undead army then they can build temples to dark gods and recruit them at the cost of severely freaking out their people. If I move the mod over to Kingdoms, then the possibility of changing a faction's religion will be used, where the honest Bori-worshipping Hyperborea can switch to worship of Set.
    I'm aware of the involvement of pastiches on sorcerous Hyperborea - however, such idea fits the cold kingdom so perfectly that I've learned to accept it. I'm quite a purist when it comes to the Hyborian Age otherwise. Hmmm, how about replacing Set with Tsathoggua? Sounds pretty exotic, I'm sure - but Howards Thurian and Hyborian Ages take arguably place in the world of Cthulhu Mythos, following the Hyperborean Age of Clark Ashton Smith. The Frog God is even mentioned by Howard as being worshipped far south. Hyperborea is located in the right place for Voorish ruins to be uncovered, perhaps that way entering in to an age of dark sorcery? Heh, just a suggestion that came to mind. I run Conan RPG myself and tend to mix Mythos in to it.

    The major sorcerous factions will be Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, Vendhya and Zamora, with Pelishtia, Koth and the Picts having pretty impressive magicks themselves, though nowhere near the might of those five. All the other nations will have some sort of sorcerous presence, mostly just temples to their local deity and a priest unit to help ward off lesser nasties, but they're basically straws in the wind against concentrated magic assault.
    You will include Kosala as a faction? Surprising, I thought them to be rather insignificant in their own right. Have you thought about including sorcery in the form of uber-assassins and spies for some factions? What comes to Picts and Cimmerians, having them portrayed as an united nation sounds a bit strange. How about having the player first take control of one tribe being tasked to subjugate other (rebel) tribes, after which a confederation of some sort would be formed?

    Well, if I had any modding skills I'd be sure to offer help. Too bad I can't really do anything useful, heh. One thing I can do is writing though, so if you happen to need help writing unit descriptions or such, that I can do.

  4. #34
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic7
    They stole the Heart of Ahriman and well... you know what tends to happen to people who own that gemstone.
    Heh heh.

    I'm aware of the involvement of pastiches on sorcerous Hyperborea - however, such idea fits the cold kingdom so perfectly that I've learned to accept it. I'm quite a purist when it comes to the Hyborian Age otherwise.
    A lot of people have, it's very pervasive. This is why I offer the choice for an involved player to turn Hyperborea into the Evil Empire of the pastiches: since Howard had sorcerers puppeteering the kings of normally non-sorcerous countries (Tsotha-Lanti the power behind Koth, Yara in Zamora, Xaltotun in Nemedia) I thought that the ability of the player to start things rolling in that direction would be pretty true to Howard. If the wizards were successful in their goals, then they could've set up nasty sorcerous empires like the pastiche Hyperboreans.

    Hmmm, how about replacing Set with Tsathoggua? Sounds pretty exotic, I'm sure - but Howards Thurian and Hyborian Ages take arguably place in the world of Cthulhu Mythos, following the Hyperborean Age of Clark Ashton Smith. The Frog God is even mentioned by Howard as being worshipped far south. Hyperborea is located in the right place for Voorish ruins to be uncovered, perhaps that way entering in to an age of dark sorcery? Heh, just a suggestion that came to mind. I run Conan RPG myself and tend to mix Mythos in to it.
    That was indeed an idea I had, that Howard's Hyperborea had a few elements of Smith's. Although it's quite controvertial among Howard (and Lovecraft and Smith) enthusiasts, I personally do subscribe to the shared mythos of the three writers being intentional. As such, I might include some Smithian elements in my mod, including Tsathoggua, who Howard seemed to be a big fan of.

    You will include Kosala as a faction? Surprising, I thought them to be rather insignificant in their own right. Have you thought about including sorcery in the form of uber-assassins and spies for some factions?
    Although it seems that Kosala isn't a big player, a study through the references seems to indicate Kosala being a pretty big cheese in the sorcerous department. Most of the choices I made for factions are based on Dale Rippke's essay The Blue East. Kosala's disposition for pretty heavy-hitting magic (artificial lighting, fruit that feeds on air, sceptres that fling fireballs) as well as Baal-Pteor's propensity for both physical brutality and mesmerism makes me think Kosala is pretty worth of inclusion.

    Sorcery on the campaign map will include some nasties, where Stygia, Kosala et al use extremely powerful demons as their assassins and spies. The dreaded Inquisitors will become particularly nasty demons.

    What comes to Picts and Cimmerians, having them portrayed as an united nation sounds a bit strange. How about having the player first take control of one tribe being tasked to subjugate other (rebel) tribes, after which a confederation of some sort would be formed?
    That's the plan. Currently the Cimmerians own a single province, and they have to either ally with or subjugate other tribes to make Cimmeria one nation. The Picts start off with an alliance of four tribes: the Wolves, Hawks, Wildcats, and Turtles were tentatively allies as of Wolves Beyond the Border, and I'm working under the implication that another son of Jhebbal-Sag has arisen to unite them under one banner. I might change it to just the Wolf tribe, but combined with Aquilonia and the dangerous Pictish Wilderness it might be too difficult for the player.

    Well, if I had any modding skills I'd be sure to offer help. Too bad I can't really do anything useful, heh. One thing I can do is writing though, so if you happen to need help writing unit descriptions or such, that I can do.
    I'll remember that, cheers!

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  5. #35

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    What kind of combat model do you plan to use? Between R:TW and M:TW II coming out I played mostly Europa Barbarorum and Rome Total Realism. I learned to like their combat models, with low speed of losses compared to the vanilla game, although the missile weapons were underpowered. Thus when M:TW II and later Kingdoms came out, it felt that the battles were decided too fast and even heavily armored troops were cut down too easily.

    So I guess it boils down to whether you'll keep feeling of the vanilla combat or try to achieve something where soldiers don't die so fast and mass routs decide the battle instead of a mass slaughter?

  6. #36
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    The combat model will be a mix depending on the combatants.

    Barbarian battles will be quick and bloody, as they tend to just charge right to it without thinking of pacing themselves, and usually end with massive casualties. Hyborian, Hyrkanian and Shemite battles are comparatively restrained, where battles are much longer and suffer few casualties, with routing being a more common result.

    A quick look at the Conan tales gives a rough idea:

    The Frost-Giant's Daughter = Conan is the only survivor of a bloody battle between AEsir and Vanir.
    The Scarlet Citadel = Conan's knights are massacred by Kothic-Ophirean soldiers. None of these knights fled, apparently preferring death to the shame of surrender. Later, Conan routs the Kothic-Ophirean army.
    Black Colossus = Conan's small army routs a large horde of Stygians, Kush-ites and Shemites, of which roughly half are killed.
    Iron Shadows in the Moon = Conan is the only survivor of his Kozak horde, which are annihilated by Turanian forces.
    The People of the Black Circle = Vendhyan cavalry rout Turanian cavalry whilst engaging an Afghuli army.
    A Witch Shall Be Born = Conan's Zuagir take a Shemite-controlled city with moderate casualties, though their rivalry seems to indicate that no quarter will be given.
    The Hour of the Dragon = The Aquilonian army is routed at Valkia, the Nemedian army at the Goralian Hills, all suffering only moderate casualties.

    Overall, the speed of battle depends on which factions are fighting, the longest between two civilized nations, the shortest between two barbaric ones. A barbaric versus a civilized one will depend on the balance: a stronger barbarian force indicates a short battle, for example.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  7. #37

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Taranaich, anything you are modelling/skinning at a moment?

    For no apparent reason, I feel I need to post this,
    http://www.conan.com/invboard/index.php?showtopic=5000

    In it, a 2nd cousin of Robert E. Howard posts. He even served in 'Nam in 1969-1971. Seems that the family tree which produced Konan's writer (my own peculiarity to call him Konan, not Conan, please excuse me that) is still going strong after all these years.

    I have to agree with Taranaich that if you want to read and know Conan read ONLY stuff that Robert E. Howard wrote. I did try to read some others' stuff with an open mind, but something felt very, VERY wrong in an indescribable way. It may just be me, I dunno.
    Last edited by keravnos; 12-12-2007 at 12:15.


    You like EB? Buy CA games.

  8. #38
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by keravnos
    Taranaich, anything you are modelling/skinning at a moment?
    At the moment I'm working on the Shemites, who I'm pretty pleased with armour and clothing-wise. The only thing they're really missing are the distinctive Shemite beards, which will be done when I get Milkshape sorted out (or figure out a way to import M2 models into Lightwave). They look alright at the moment, but it's just not the same without the mighty bushes on their chins.

    I have to agree with Taranaich that if you want to read and know Conan read ONLY stuff that Robert E. Howard wrote. I did try to read some others' stuff with an open mind, but something felt very, VERY wrong in an indescribable way. It may just be me, I dunno.
    There have been some very good pasticheurs like Karl Edward Wagner and John Maddox Roberts, whose Conan stories are pretty effective, if not on Howard's own level. However, some of them are not just poorly written, but actively kind of offensive in their mediocrity: Roland Green, Steve Perry and Harry Turtledove's attempts are best ignored IMHO.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  9. #39

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranaich
    The combat model will be a mix depending on the combatants.

    Barbarian battles will be quick and bloody, as they tend to just charge right to it without thinking of pacing themselves, and usually end with massive casualties. Hyborian, Hyrkanian and Shemite battles are comparatively restrained, where battles are much longer and suffer few casualties, with routing being a more common result.

    (stuff cut from between)

    Overall, the speed of battle depends on which factions are fighting, the longest between two civilized nations, the shortest between two barbaric ones. A barbaric versus a civilized one will depend on the balance: a stronger barbarian force indicates a short battle, for example.
    So in game terms - barbarian units will have high attack and morale values, but poor defense and armor, while civilized units will have average attack and morale, but good defense and armor? It should be noted that casualties talked about in Conan stories don't necessary imply massive scale of deaths on the battlefield in itself - but as well pretty much every wounded man expiring of his wounds. I believe this can be represented in the game as well by giving the barbarian factions much worse chances of healing casualties after the battle.

  10. #40
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic7
    So in game terms - barbarian units will have high attack and morale values, but poor defense and armor, while civilized units will have average attack and morale, but good defense and armor?
    Pretty much.

    It should be noted that casualties talked about in Conan stories don't necessary imply massive scale of deaths on the battlefield in itself - but as well pretty much every wounded man expiring of his wounds. I believe this can be represented in the game as well by giving the barbarian factions much worse chances of healing casualties after the battle.
    Yup. Overall the impressions I got from the battles is that barbarians and similarly savage peoples like the Desert Shemites had bloody and deadly battles, but the Hyborians and Hyrkanians had battles more like medieval ones. Conan said that 50,000 people had died at the battle of Shamla Pass in Black Colossus: though it's just a rough estimate on Conan's part, it's still a pretty heft number of casualties.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  11. #41

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    What is required to play this actual "The Hyborian Age: Total War" adventure game module on my computer?????????, and, when will this actual adventure game module be released this year actually???????, and, will King Conan of Aquilonia himself be fully featured in this game module???????

  12. #42
    The Scourge of Rome Member Spartan198's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Welcome to the forums, Abarrman.

    I'm not sure of the requirements beyond having Medieval 2: Total War. Taranaich will probably be able to answer that.

    But King Conan will definitely be in the mod.
    My Greek Cavalry submod for RS 1.6a: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=368881

    For Calvin and TosaInu, in a better place together, modding TW without the hassle of hardcoded limits. We miss you.

  13. #43
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Abarrman
    What is required to play this actual "The Hyborian Age: Total War" adventure game module on my computer?????????
    Medieval 2: Kingdoms, plus (I estimate) an extra few gigabytes disc space to give the mod room to breathe.

    and, when will this actual adventure game module be released this year actually???????
    I've always been terrible at estimating dates, but after the big relaunch preview I hope to get it released some time before the year 3000.

    will King Conan of Aquilonia himself be fully featured in this game module???????
    He most certainly shall! Can't very well have a Conan mod without Conan.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  14. #44
    Member Member Reverend Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Hopefully there is still life in this ?

  15. #45
    The Scourge of Rome Member Spartan198's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    By Crom and Mitra, yes, there is!
    My Greek Cavalry submod for RS 1.6a: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=368881

    For Calvin and TosaInu, in a better place together, modding TW without the hassle of hardcoded limits. We miss you.

  16. #46
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Yes, still life, but not much to show for it yet. Things have been going a tiny smidgen faster than in recent weeks, so here's hoping!

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  17. #47
    Member Member Reverend Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War


    Most Excellent! It looks amazing so far.

  18. #48

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Oh hell yeah, a Conan mod for M2TW! I've yet to play M2, but I'm a Conan fan (especially the mythology). I look forward to following this mod's progress.

    By the way, might I suggest you add a FAQ thread? I just found this mod now, but I don't know where to start reading.

    Oh, and hi keravnos =)

    -Glee
    Sheer musical genius: Gould on Mozart

    Balloons: ("Welcome to EB" from T.A.)


  19. #49
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Ahoy Reverend & Gleemonex!

    An FAQ would be a capital idea, I'll see if I can get one done.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  20. #50

    Default Re: The Hyborian Age: Total War

    Don't know if you have seen this yet,

    http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/hyboria/

    Maybe it can help flesh out Hyboria a bit better.

    Oh, and Hello Gleemonex! Kinda figured out you would end up in these shores.


    You like EB? Buy CA games.

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