New factions?

[Jo the Greek]

Which new factions would you like to see in E.B?

[Ice]

Which new factions would you like to see in E.B?

Illyria would be nice. Perhaps another Germanic faction also. Oh, yeah, and Numida.

[Jo the Greek]

Illyria good idea a faction between balkans and italy would mess the things a lot .

[KARTLOS]

nubian and indian, though they are perhaps off the map.

i dont know how much is know about nubian military structure either

[Andronikos]

New germanic and briton faction, Numidia and Pergamon, another ideas are Syracuse, Celtiberians and something which would attack Seleucids like Maccabees as a non-playable faction which will appear

[The Internet]

A new Germanic faction to balance out the Swezboz, perhaps the Suebi maybe? Unless you made the SwezBoz a coalition including the Suebi but they would be a good faction to have along with another Germanic faction to balance out the region so that the Swezboz don't just steam roll the Aedui and Averni and have some stronger competition. Or perhaps another Celtaberian tribe or even another Gallic tribe, the Menepii or a Belgian tribe (sp?) perhaps, they were both a big part of the Gallic resistance against Caeser.

[Bootsiuv]

Woops...double post...blame AOL not me. I hate AOL, but, dial-up is what it is for now. So be it.

[Bootsiuv]

The Attalids' Pergamonian Kingdom would be cool. Then again, they're is a million of them that would be cool. Boo on CA for creating a faction limit....I remember the XL mod for MTW had like 50 factions (don't know the exact number, I just know it was a lot more than 21). Soooo, CA, this boo's for you. Boo.

[burn_again]

@ The Internet: I think the Sweboz ARE the Suebi.

I'd like to see another germanic faction or a celtic faction like the Boii in eastern Europe. This would both balance the Sweboz expansion and prevent the Romans from heading north too early.

[Frodge]

India, or if it is at all possible some sort of oriental chinese style faction, tibet or at a push proto-mongols but i don't think the map goes far enough east for the idea to be plausible

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Personally I think every Germanic tribe deserves a proper faction. This way they would compete with each other, some would be eaten up, an thus preventing the Suebi = Sweboz (!) from becoming the all-time superpower of the Baltics.

I think that would be great. And remember, EB-team, all these Germanic factions would share models!

Pergamon, Skythians, Syrakuse perhaps would be great as well.

Edit: And Belgae of course.

[The Internet]

I was worried that the Swezboz were the Suebi i just wasn't sure, in that case perhaps the Boii would be a good choice, i say the more Germanic tribes the better, i just wish the engine could allow us represent things properly. :(

[Frostwulf]

The Boii were a Celtic tribe, but perhaps the Cimbri or Teutons would be a possible choice.

[The Internet]

Heh i know, i should of quoted the person who said having the Boii would help check the Roman advance for a while, but i still support a new German tribe, i should of put that across a little better.



The Cimbri or Teutons sound like great ideas, just gotta work out which one would be the best choice.

[Bactron]

Except of those that were already mentioned (Pergamon, Suebi, Celtiberi, Belgae, etc.) I would like to see Galatian faction they would be a fun to play controlling Ankyra and messing in Asia minor.

But I have to say that in my recent Aedui campagin I have conquered Galatia and it provided me a full time Galatian experience. So maybe it is not necessary to have them as Faction. Because it can be very well supplemented if the Arverni or Aedui player conquers Ankyra.

[The Internet]

The Galacians would be a pretty cool faction to have out in there, they might even keep some other factions in check, perhaps even the AS, the Galatians were feared by everyone and used by most in their armies or if a rival wanted to overthrow their current king or if a king wished to try and keep power he allied himself with the Galatians.



If i remember correctly that is.

[burn_again]

I think Cimbri or Teutons would be difficult to represent in the game, as the EB-team doesn't seem to want emerging factions in EB2. 270 BC is way too early to have them in the south, and if they start in Denmark they'll never make it to Italy.

Also the Belgae or any germanic tribes west of the Sweboz would weaken the gaulic factions too much, who never perform very good in my campaigns.

I really hate to see the Romans at the Baltic sea in 220, so I hope for a germanic or celtic faction east or south-east of the Sweboz.

Galatians would be cool. I'd give them Tylis and Ancyra as starting territories, so they wouldn't be wiped out too early...

[mlp071]

The Attalids' Pergamonian Kingdom would be cool. Then again, they're is a million of them that would be cool. Boo on CA for creating a faction limit....I remember the XL mod for MTW had like 50 factions (don't know the exact number, I just know it was a lot more than 21). Soooo, CA, this boo's for you. Boo.

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.

At same time, they still only have 520 unit slots available, same like RTW.

[Wolfman]

Pergamon, Skythians, Syrakuse perhaps would be great as well.

Edit: And Belgae of course.

The Scythians are already in there I think as the Saka. I would like to See Pergamon, Syracuse, The 2 numidian kingdoms, Chatti, Bithynia, Belgae, Illyria, Bastarnae, Numantines, and if one of these can not be done than the Goidlics.

Edit: Oh I forgot about the Galatians.

[blitzkrieg80]

A new Germanic faction to balance out the Swezboz, perhaps the Suebi maybe? Unless you made the SwezBoz a coalition including the Suebi but they would be a good faction to have along with another Germanic faction to balance out the region so that the Swezboz don't just steam roll the Aedui and Averni and have some stronger competition. Or perhaps another Celtaberian tribe or even another Gallic tribe, the Menepii or a Belgian tribe (sp?) perhaps, they were both a big part of the Gallic resistance against Caeser.

Latin Suebii = Proto-Germanic *Swēbōz from *swēbaz sb.m.: ON Sváfa-land 'land of the Swabians', OE pl. Swǽfe 'Swabians', OHG pl. Swāba id. Cf. also Lat-Germ Suēbi, Suēvi. Based on PGmc *swēsaz adj.: Goth swes 'one's own', ON sváss id., OE swǽs id., OFris swēs 'related', OS swās 'own, nice, cosy', OHG swās 'private, intimate, homely'. Derived from IE *sue-: Skt svá- 'own,' Av hva- id., Gk ὂς id., Lat suus id., OPrus swais, Slav *svojь

the Teutons would be just another Celtic tribe... yes, both the notorious "Teutons" as well as the "Germans" were not really Germanic at all (language/ethnicity) but Celtic, check the Oxford English dictionary if you don't believe me, or read Caesar's propoganda efforts against Celts on the other side of the Rhine aka 'Germans'. That is not to say that any particular Indo-European people was exclusive to a certain area and many were far more mixed amongst other cultures than believed.

although everybody in EB wants another Germanic faction for variety and balance, there is little evidence to support any supra-tribal governments during 270BC, in-fact the Suebi are borderline appropriate in the first place, practically a singular option... the problem is no literate people of the time cared to write about that area until Caesar or later which isn't very valid for the 270-50BC period which most of EB takes place during... yes, there are a few who did write little bits but it's nothing to support a faction my point being, don't get your hopes up... we Germanophiles and those of other interests are trying.

there are Proto-Balts who are recorded consistently for a long time in the East, although their government is hardly the supra-tribal confederacy i described

[Frostwulf]

the Teutons would be just another Celtic tribe...

If your saying that the Teutons were Celtic I have to disagree with you. John Warry, Tim Newkirk, Adrian Goldsworthy, John Haywood,D.H.Green,Simon James and many others say they were Germanic. The authors I read that said they were not sure was Wells and Cuniffe. The only one that said they were Celts was Ellis. Most encyclopedias, dictionaries and etc. say the Teutons were Germanic.

although everybody in EB wants another Germanic faction for variety and balance, there is little evidence to support any supra-tribal governments during 270BC, in-fact the Suebi are borderline in the first place... the problem is nobody cared to write about that area until Caesar's time and later which isn't very valid for 270-50BC... yes, I know of the few who did write little bits and it's nothing to support a faction

What about the Bastarnae/Scirii, I'm not sure they would fit the criteria but they did attack the Black Sea port of Olbia in 230BC, which means they would have been on the move earlier.

[Bootsiuv]

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.

At same time, they still only have 520 unit slots available, same like RTW.

I don't know much about M2:TW, but I will by October, which is when I plan on upgrading my video card and buying it. Here's a question for those in the know about M2:TW....would a Radeon 9250 be sufficient to run the game....if not I'll definitely upgrade before I buy it.

BTW, didn't mean to go off topic, but I'm bored, so sue me.

[Jo the Greek]

(Mt2 needs ram and me with a ati radeon zafire i play it respectfully) I belvieve a faction like Pergamum would helped a lot to kill the Seleukid monster and also it would great if any lost city of Pergamum by another faction would rebeled to the romans so the can put foot asia minor with way is more realistic.

[AntiochusIII]

Well, Pergamon did play a large role in the history of that particular region, so if the faction slots open up I'm pretty convinced that they would make a good choice. That or Galatians, just to populate Asia Minor a bit more.

In the current EB installment I've got to play "Galatians" quite a few times already though. Whenever I play the Arverni Ankyra seems to always rebel to me, and I had to, ah, fend off all those Seleukid hordes with only local troops. Thank the engine that my Galatians get an access to the Arverni treasure on the other side of the Mediterranean.

Syracuse sounds fun but I think it's probably best represented by a regional unit or two like Massilia: an influential and large city-state but not exactly an EB faction made. The reason I say this is because they lack any large "Eleutheroi" areas to expand and grow powerful from. A human player would have a fun game fending off Rome and Carthage but an AI player would be screwed nine times out of ten. With Epeiros already there in Italy it would be really crowded.

It's true that Eastern Europe needs a faction to fill up the void (a Sweboz superpower every bloody game is kind of annoying), but I know nothing of the peoples in that area. A common suggestion seems to be the Boii Celtic tribe.

Numidia should be back!

Wolfman: I don't think the Saka Rauka represents the Scythians. The Scythians at the start of the EB timeframe would be between the Getai and the Sauromatae actually.

[pezhetairoi]

I would like something to appear east of the Sweboz, actually, if historically possible, though I'm not familiar with that area at that time period. The Sweboz currently aren't contested in their east. They always end up (if you see the AI expansions) with some form of pre-medieval Drang nach Osten that steamrollers everything in their path and ends up among the Sauromatae, who also get steamrollered. Some Baltic proto-Polish faction, both to put pressure on the Sweboz from the east and on the Getai from the north would be nice. It would probably be not as HA-dependent as the steppe factions, but would have a decent cavalry arm, I am expecting.

Though this is probably wishful thinking since there probably was no such power in the east at that time. :( So the Sweboz will still go uncontested, bah.

Alternatively, a more powerful Getai would also be as good as a brand new faction. I have never seen the Getai do more than become a central Balkan minor power, with fullstacks of Komatai that i can steamroller through easily. A Getai faction that is confident enough to go northeast and north (and maybe even south) would be nice.

[Thaatu]

Boii (or some germanic tribe in the area) would add someone to control the "AI Roman expansion routes", so they'd be an interesting addition, as would Pergamon.

[Gugus]

It seems that a lot of people have a problem with Sweboz overexpanding eastwards (I also think that it is a little unhistorical as most people of that time migrated west not east). Also there is no historical evidence of an east european/baltic power big enough to become an EB faction.
Thinking about those two things I came upon an idea how to stop Sweboz from going east. My first idea was to boost Eleutheroi garrisons there, but then it is not so historical as well to place elite heavy units it that area. Then i reminded myself of a console command that can make a family member immortal. Maybe if someone can script a trigger that makes Eleutheroi general or family member immortal when Sweboz besiege those eastern settlements it will stop them from capturing those areas.
I never used that console command before and I'm not sure if it prevents a character from dying of old age, or makes him immortal in battle, or both, or if it can be reversed (make character mortal again - we dont want any immortal superhero Eleutheroi generals running around, do we?).
I have no scripting skills so can anyone tell me if this is possible. I'll test the "immortality" command when I get home today.
G

[geala]

I'm not a fan of another Germanic tribe. As far as I know (which is not much) up to the first century BC findings with military denotation (esp. weapons) are rare in the Germanic area. After that time and the contact with the Romans it increased dramatically while the burial methods did not change. My conclusion is that no large scale warfare took place in the Germanic region before. It's maybe not worth to spend a faction place for it even if the playability of EB would be supported.

I would like an Illyrian faction but the middle of the map is already crowded; perhaps more Illyrian units for the Epirotes are enough (I hate hate hate the unit limitation for RTW and, grrr, M2TW). Btw, I can insert here my favorite theme : Illyrians are depicted barefoot in the few sources we have. So remember the Alamo.

I would also like to have a Goidelic faction (again, you know: many -later-sources show them frequently barefoot ), but only if naval invasions would be easier for AI, which would mean the use of the BI exe in the case of EB, wouldn't it? Not planned, or? For EB2 a Goidelic faction should be implemented in any case, just because I like them, hrhr.

A Nubian (Meroe, although of importance only much later?) or Saharian (Garamantes?) faction would be cool, but I wonder wether, beneath the problem with the timeframe, enough interesting units could be created. On the other hand, a faction with many light fast moving infantry troops could be nice in that area. For me it would be a totally new playing style, as I don't like to play the trousered barbarians farther north . So my favorite new factions.

A counterweight against AS in asia minor would be great, but is another Greek faction (Pergamon) not a bit to much? Maybe the Galatians are a good idea, although I would absolutely not be interested in playing them. And I think as a AI faction they would have great problems, more as Pontos I fear. Where is the room to expand?

India would offer great opportunities, but is not really on the map. Were there not great problems to make new provinces?

When I put it together I must confess that I'm relatively happy with the existing factions. If, then a lot of the mentioned new smaller factions should be created. But would that not collide with the restricted unit slots? More regional units would be my priority over new factions. Implementing a new faction should at least never result in disposing existing units.

[The Internet]

Latin Suebii = Proto-Germanic *Swēbōz from *swēbaz sb.m.: ON Sváfa-land 'land of the Swabians', OE pl. Swǽfe 'Swabians', OHG pl. Swāba id. Cf. also Lat-Germ Suēbi, Suēvi. Based on PGmc *swēsaz adj.: Goth swes 'one's own', ON sváss id., OE swǽs id., OFris swēs 'related', OS swās 'own, nice, cosy', OHG swās 'private, intimate, homely'. Derived from IE *sue-: Skt svá- 'own,' Av hva- id., Gk ὂς id., Lat suus id., OPrus swais, Slav *svojь

the Teutons would be just another Celtic tribe... yes, both the notorious "Teutons" as well as the "Germans" were not really Germanic at all (language/ethnicity) but Celtic, check the Oxford English dictionary if you don't believe me, or read Caesar's propoganda efforts against Celts on the other side of the Rhine aka 'Germans'. That is not to say that any particular Indo-European people was exclusive to a certain area and many were far more mixed amongst other cultures than believed.

although everybody in EB wants another Germanic faction for variety and balance, there is little evidence to support any supra-tribal governments during 270BC, in-fact the Suebi are borderline appropriate in the first place, practically a singular option... the problem is no literate people of the time cared to write about that area until Caesar or later which isn't very valid for the 270-50BC period which most of EB takes place during... yes, there are a few who did write little bits but it's nothing to support a faction my point being, don't get your hopes up... we Germanophiles and those of other interests are trying.

there are Proto-Balts who are recorded consistently for a long time in the East, although their government is hardly the supra-tribal confederacy i described

I hate to argue with you but it seems that a lot of authors seem to disagree about the Suebi not being Germanic, although they do all say that the distinction between Celtic and Germanic tribes (especially around the Rhine) seems to be hard to distinguish mainly because of the archaeology but as Adrian Goldsworthy has said on different occassions "archaeology is a clumbsy tool to distinguish tribal borders and cultures" especially in an area like the Rhine and as someone has already said, there seems to be quite a few historians who believe thart the tuetons were a Germanic tribe and i believe that if we use the MTW2 engine that allows hordes to appear it'd be very cool to have them migrate (perhaps as a large group under one name if need be) of some sort) towards the Celts and the Romans because of pressure from the Suebi.


And i really don't need a Latin translation on how Suebi = swezboz, a couple people have pointed out the fact that they are one in the same and that really is good enough to me, i'm sure you meant all the best when typing it and i don't mean to come across as an ass but to me it seems condescending and while i am not a scholar with a degree in ancient history i am not new to it either, i just don't see the Suebi refered to as the Swezboz outside of EB.

[Bactron]

You have interesting points Geala, and I agree with some of them.
You have convinced me that there is no need for another Germanic faction.
I think that celtic Boii would be apropriete to chalange Sweboz in their rapid expansion. (I am not sure about this but Boii could start with that settelman Euboranum (spelling?) it would be probably historically correct and game/wise)

Again I think that you have good point about those Illyrians, there is no need for them as a faction, some regional units would do that job.

I think that Goidilic faction is represented well as it is now (as a rebel faction with neat regional units /I have conquered them with Aedui and I am even able to recruit Goidilic nobles!))

Nubian faction would be sweet.

I would love to see Pergamon and Galatian factions. Good idea would be (if it is possible) to make them only one settlement faction with no intentions for expanding (while controlled by AI). It would be quite wierd to have a campaign where Galatians would controll all of asia minor. I think that neat idea would be to give to Pergamum huge (and I mean HUGE) boost on their trade income - to represent their historicall sense as a Trading center of that region and also to allow them to keep huge armies for their defence. And Galatians could be solved by giving them really low units upkeep cost (while controlled by AI) To represent the fact that they were looting masters and slave takers and also to allow for them to have some decent army for defence because they would own only Ankyra so there would be no much income for them.