AI Battle Formation Mods

[Lysander13]

Ave Lysander13, are those links bellow your sig updated? Or should I make some manual updates?

Ave Leo,
The files are for the current version of EB, for that matter; they can be used with an older version ( but not any version before the Saba were added ) and the next version of EB as well, as the file structure in installing/unzipping the files remains the same. The only time this would need to be updated were if the factions were to change or of course i tweak these files, and/or added other changes to other files that have a direct relationship to these AI files. Which i may do, if i can ever find the free time to make these changes and test them thoroughly.

Originally Posted by olly

Hello

These two mini mods have greatly improved the fun I have had but in the last couple of weeks I have been using Alexander instead of BI. How would these mods work with Alex?

Thanks

They should work just fine. Unless you happen to be playing a mod-foldered mini-mod with EB that uses it's own formations but i don't think there's any of those around here, last i checked anyway. Glad your enjoying them olly..

[NEver]

So was that reinforcements bug ever fixed or...?

[Lysander13]

So was that reinforcements bug ever fixed or...?

Reinforcement battles in RTW have always been a rather buggy situation as I'm sure anyone who's played RTW or mod thereof can attest to. It's something I've experienced in vanilla, various mods with or without formation mods and even in EB with EB formations. One thing seems to be certain however at least to me if one happens to mess around with formations. It does seem if your off on the offsets granted in the attack/defend formation it can make a buggy situation worse. So the reverse should hold true or rather not totally eliminate the buggy reinforcing armies one may experience from time to time but perhaps limit how often such a thing a thing occurs. Really however I don't think it's truly been solved, at best limited in a manner of speaking.

[Alexandros Maximus]

i installed darth and marcus camillus formations.

none of the formations are there, but i am running my romani savegame.

so i'm assuming that the formations are not savegame compatible??????

[Lysander13]

i installed darth and marcus camillus formations.

none of the formations are there, but i am running my romani savegame.

so i'm assuming that the formations are not savegame compatible??????

I fail to see why it wouldn't be save game compatible. There should be no issues with save game compatibility.

As for the formations not being there:
If they are not there. Then you have not installed properly. It's a zip file contained within the correct EB file structure so it will overwrite the necessary files if unzipped in the correct location. Which BTW is the main install directory of where you have EB installed not the data folder in case it needs to be mentioned. If you were not prompted to overwrite when you unzipped then you did not do it in the correct location. Also note, when you using MC's player formations and DV Formations. You must install DV's first, then MC's player formations. You can verify installation simply by opening your descr_formations.txt file ( in the EB Data folder ) with a text editor ( ie..notepad ) for MC's player formations, scroll down a bit and look for a reference saying " Marcus Camillus' Republican Roman Legion Formation ". Do the same for DV's formations, however this time your opening up the descr_formations_ai.txt file and right along the top of the file it should say Darth_Dark_Formations 16.2. The above verification assumes you've installed both of these in the right order and that their installed in the correct location.

[Alexandros Maximus]

had to do it different (unpack, cut/paste, instead of directly unpacking) because of vista's security shit.

running EB now to see if it worked.

[Pezlu]

Has 1.1 improved formations over 1.0?

If not, is this compatible with 1.1? :P
By comparing the files it would look so. Do you confirm?
I love this mod, it actually makes the game more challenging and interesting!

[Ludens]

Formation files are pretty independent from the rest of the game, so they are almost certainly compatible. I cannot answer your other question.

[Lysander13]

Has 1.1 improved formations over 1.0?

If not, is this compatible with 1.1? :P
By comparing the files it would look so. Do you confirm?
I love this mod, it actually makes the game more challenging and interesting!

1) EB's 1.1 formations are the same as 1.0.
2) Yes this is compatible with 1.1. Even the archived files can be used if one would happen to want to switch back. Ludens was quite correct. Formations for the most part are very independent and can be used from version to version.
3) Confirmed.
4) ....Glad your enjoying it. I hope to improve on the relationship between certain EB files and these formation mods very soon for what will hopefully turn out to be a more enjoyable result as it's relative to using these formation mods. Particularly for Sinuhet's Formations. For example i was actually extremely happy to see mass being raised for cavalry.
Anyhow, all i need is actual recreational time to be able to do this....

[STuNTz2023]

sorry have a quick question. Yesterday i installed Darth and Marcus' player formations. I decided to try them out in my roman save game and the formation worked beautifully. However with some of my army's the formations for republic and imperial formations are in red and will not let me use those formations. Am i missing needed units? Do i have to have the specific amount of each unit as he mentions in his readme?

Thanks for this mod the battles have been a very pleasent change!

[Lysander13]

Yesterday i installed Darth and Marcus' player formations. I decided to try them out in my roman save game and the formation worked beautifully. However with some of my army's the formations for republic and imperial formations are in red and will not let me use those formations. Am i missing needed units? Do i have to have the specific amount of each unit as he mentions in his readme?

Thanks for this mod the battles have been a very pleasent change!

Yes.
Just follow the unit roster layout that's spelled out in the readme for very sharp looking Republic and Imperial formations and you should have no trouble accesing the formations once you've grouped all your units together. Glad you find the formations to your liking.

[Ibrahim]

I am now a highly satisfied customer..finally! an AI that makes sense!!

for all involved!!

[||Lz3||]

what's the diference between sinhuet's and darth's formations?

[||Lz3||]

I have a question why everytime I attack the enemy army refuses to engage?? I mean its like if they had some sort of "skirmish mode" on , I get close and then they start running back ...the whole army!!

Im using darth's 2nd version since I cant handle huge (playing w large) and also marcus camillus , I'm using alx.exe if that matters...

[Ibrahim]

I have a question why everytime I attack the enemy army refuses to engage?? I mean its like if they had some sort of "skirmish mode" on , I get close and then they start running back ...the whole army!!

Im using darth's 2nd version since I cant handle huge (playing w large) and also marcus camillus , I'm using alx.exe if that matters...

how badly do you outnumber them?
that's usually the reason for the retreats..

[||Lz3||]

I dont outnumber them by much...but...well that could be it , that's what I'm guessing

[belliger]

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

[Ibrahim]

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

they are all obvously modded for EB 1.1, so the files here in this thread are good to go. as for the diff-I dunno, I just picked randomly

[||Lz3||]

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

well...

there are 2 darth versions...

original works best than 2nd version , but is only advisable to use it whit huge unit sizes , otherwise it wont work

darth 2nd version is the same as first but made compatible whit smaller unit sizes

marcus camillus is more specialized in roman formations,but also work whit every other faction (is an add on, you need to use first one of darth's or sinhuet's mod)

and finally sinhuet...heheh I haven't used that one... is kinda like darth's 2nd , but I heard it had problems whit reinforcements

[Lysander13]

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

Ave belliger,

The difference between the AI Formation Mods lies in some of the coding and theory's reached thru empirical methods of testing. Which I won't bore you with. There is a distinct difference between the 2 versions of the DV Formations and that is one of them has been put forth with DV's width forcing omitted. If using DV Formations if that is your preference, I would recommend using the 1st version, IIRC. This version is original DV Formations with width forcing in place solely modded for compatibility with EB. I only included a 2nd version for those who do not like to or cannot play with unit size set on huge. Reason being is that with width forcing in place when playing on smaller unit sizes; it has the visual effect of the thinning of battle lines which some may not like since the formation set will override any EDU parameters.. However if this is something you don't mind you can certainly play with this version and as a matter of fact I would encourage the use of this version if one chooses to play with DV Formations. For those who choose to use the 2nd version with the width forcing omitted, keep in mind the formation sets were designed, coded and tested with this width forcing in mind. MC Player formations can obviously be used with either AI Formation Mod as it is of course for use by the player only.

As for which Formation Mod is better?
That's a matter of preference I suppose. I prefer both to standard stock AI. Between those 2, I personally prefer Sinuhet's Formations as I tend to prefer the behavior of the Battle AI ( All things being relative of course ) with these formations. However for a better result with Sinuhet Formations there are a few other files that could use tweaking so to speak. I did it for my own personal use with 1.0 and really liked the results. Unfortunately I have not gotten around to doing it for 1.1 as I'm probably the only EB fan who has yet to play a campaign in 1.1 and admittedly have not checked to see the differences between the files that's relative to AI Formations behavior in 1.0/1.1 and whether they have had a positive or negative result. For an example of what I'm talking about, play a battle in S.P.Q.R. ...or... RTR TIC both of which use Sinuhet Formations last I checked and you'll see what I mean. As a matter of fact for RTR TIC it was an EB Beta-Tester (mcantu) who did the tweaking of the other files I'm referring to and he did a really great job. However, they are compatible with 1.1 as several have already mentioned. Hope you find one of them to your liking.

Vale,
L13

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm going to give DarthMod a try, used to it from RTR of old anyway. Just as a thought, might be worth packaging up a "backup files" zip inside the bundle so people can easily go back to the original files if need be. I think that would add to the utility of the collection a great deal.

EDIT: Looks like there might be just that in there, however from the dates they're from 1.0, not 1.1.

[belliger]

thank you very much

[Lysander13]

Looks like there might be just that in there, however from the dates they're from 1.0, not 1.1.

That would be because there are no changes between versions of the files in question. Therefore no update to the archived files were needed.

@belliger

[Woreczko]

Minor glitch: In archived EB files, all UI files (battlepage_02.tga) are from barbarian UI. Others are missing. I foolishly overwrote the original ones without making a backup and now I`m stuck with barbarian buttons. If anyone would be so kind to upload EB 1.1 files from EB\data\UI\[culture]\interface\battlepage_02.tga, it would be greatly appreciated :).

[Lysander13]

Hmmm. Silly mistake on my part while putting together the backups it would seem. Goes to show ya, it's always best to make your own just in case. Anyhow, this is no big deal as you can just get the backup your looking for from your vanilla data folder anyway.

[Woreczko]

I thought, EB made it`s own "buttons"...? Thanks anyway, will try :)

[QuintusSertorius]

As you can see in a thread on the very topic, so far I've not been very impressed with the AI's handling of either the default EB formations, nor DarthMod either when it comes to phalanx armies.

Is Sinhuet's mod any better? Can they hold a line with it? Problem is the AI starts out with it's troops in the right place, then proceeds to march them all over the place and lose any sense of cohesion, making them ridiculously easy to beat in series.

[Lysander13]

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

As you can see in a thread on the very topic, so far I've not been very impressed with the AI's handling of either the default EB formations, nor DarthMod either when it comes to phalanx armies.

There are a number of things that one can point to where the AI is less than impressive. You've just pointed out one. This is by no means a bash, merely an observation, but if the devs of the RTW title didn't get formations quite right and made them pretty basic essentially. Not to mention, it's presumed they had access to the hard-coded routines as it relates to battlefield behavior and yet still the battlefield AI left a little to be desired. How is any modder attempting to influence battlefield behavior solely on a superficial level suppose to address wacky behavior issues that date back to the vanilla version of the game? That's not to say some success cannot be attained. I for one prefer EB, Darth, Sinuhet, or some formations i've concocted for myself as oppose to vanilla formations. But success is relative and one cannot always account for some wacky behavior by units at times. Anyone who's played this series for any length of time cannot be expecting to be blown away by it's AI. Even something as simple it would seem as holding a phalanx center consistently.

Is Sinhuet's mod any better?

It's all relative. I happen to prefer Sinuhet Formations.

Can they hold a line with it?

They can hold a line. Question would be if it's held long enough for your liking.

Problem is the AI starts out with it's troops in the right place, then proceeds to march them all over the place and lose any sense of cohesion, making them ridiculously easy to beat in series.

This has always been a problem going back to vanilla. If the original devs didn't quite get it right. How is a modder suppose to considering the limitations? You can mask it a bit perhaps via formation modding but the hardcode is the hardcode. There's only so much that can be done in this area of modding that in my opinion is by far the least rewarding.

[QuintusSertorius]

Absolutely, and I should say my frustration isn't aimed at you guys trying to do the best with the material you have to work with. It's aimed at CA for putting together such piss-poor AI in the first place. If they'd spent more time on the AI, and less on pretty bells and whistles (ie graphics), they'd have a much more solid game.

But then graphics is what sells, unfortunately. Most people, it seems, don't actually care about gameplay.

[Poulp']

It seems to me that CA originaly planned RTW battle to be played with no or little redeployement.
ie, press start battle and march forward, whatever the context of the battle might be.