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Thread: AI Battle Formation Mods

  1. #91
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    If they'd spent more time on the AI, and less on pretty bells and whistles (ie graphics), they'd have a much more solid game.

    But then graphics is what sells, unfortunately. Most people, it seems, don't actually care about gameplay.
    That's the point. People buy games because of screenshots and first impressions of other players. Things like weak AI will reveal much later when players have gained more experince with the game. In RTW it seems that the AI has particular problems with larger battles. It gives a fair account in small battles with not more than 5 units each, but behaves poorly in epic battles with 20 units, leave alone reinforcements.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  2. #92

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Absolutely, and I should say my frustration isn't aimed at you guys trying to do the best with the material you have to work with. It's aimed at CA for putting together such piss-poor AI in the first place. If they'd spent more time on the AI, and less on pretty bells and whistles (ie graphics), they'd have a much more solid game.

    But then graphics is what sells, unfortunately. Most people, it seems, don't actually care about gameplay.
    The most amazing part is that the original Medieval TW AI was actually decent, and could form and keep a coherent line (along with using units properly most of the time) right out of the box- I've actually lost even battles versus the Medieval 1 AI, not so with RTW or M2 unless the other side's units just dramatically overpower my own. I wouldn't be surprised if they dumbed it down solely to help it sell more to the masses really. Medieval 2 isn't much better in it's vanilla state AI wise.
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  3. #93
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Yes, in M:TW and S:TW the A.I. was actually quite good. It kept formation, didn't walk its soldiers into obvious killing zones, knew how to flank and penetrate, and would actively search for ambushes at higher difficulty levels. Mind you, it wasn't perfect. Suicide generals were not new to R:TW (although it got worse), and if you were a bit experienced at the game you could reliably beat it at 1:1. But with R:TW they upped the pace of the game as well as the graphic requirements. As a result, they couldn't allocate much CPU power to the A.I. without driving the system requirements through the roof, so they didn't.
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  4. #94
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    I thought suicidal generals were worse in MTW. My entire strategy in any MTW battle was "kill the general" and it wasn't overly difficult. My best example was my full English stack vs a full Papal stack when the pope charged straight at me, died right away and the entire enemy army routed with 1 person being killed. The less said about the Pope leading an army in battle the better, though.
    I should add I had some great battles too, my favourite battle on any Total War game was with Medieval, a crusade battle involving 4 full stacks came down to my faction heir, who was leading the crusade, against the Egyptian king. One on one the only people left alive on the battlefield. It was epic.
    Last edited by johnhughthom; 07-17-2008 at 19:07.

  5. #95

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Suicide generals were a BIG problem since at least MTW1 (didn't really play Shogun so can't comment) that CA simply never bothered to address. In MTW however, they were LIGHTSABER WIELDING suicidal generals who most of the time would not die for half of the battle even with hordes of your own soldiers stabbing at them. In both RTW and M2, they usually just immediately charge a spearwall and drop like flies. Using the Alex mod with EB seems to have brought back the lightsaber general phenomenon though, as I routinely watch enemy generals surrounded by all manner of spearmen hack and slash away for a good 5-10 minutes or so before finally dying, even after their entire bodyguard has been killed off.
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  6. #96
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    I'm not sure if that's alex.exe responsability... are you using the full alex EB mod? I havn't checked that one... so there could be something related...
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  7. #97
    Member Member Havok.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by ||Lz3|| View Post
    I'm not sure if that's alex.exe responsability... are you using the full alex EB mod? I havn't checked that one... so there could be something related...
    It isn't, i witnessed hundreds of times that kind of phenomena on my EB campaigns on rtw.exe, while on alex.exe i dont see those kind of things on a regular basis(or at all)
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  8. #98
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    The first page in this thread has been updated to reflect an updated download link. Various changes were made and an error in the Archives Folder has been corrected. For those who like to use an alternative Battle AI with EB or if you happen to be one who hasn't but is curious. I urge you to give the new download a try.

  9. #99
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    error? what error in the archives folder if I may ask , does it have a noticeable effect?

    and if you could explain the changes a litle bit , that would be awesome

    but great job Lysander , thanks!

    EDIT: Lysander if I may ask... what happened to darth 2nd version? I can't play on huge settings :(
    Last edited by ||Lz3||; 07-24-2008 at 07:25.
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  10. #100
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by ||Lz3|| View Post
    error? what error in the archives folder if I may ask , does it have a noticeable effect?

    and if you could explain the changes a litle bit , that would be awesome

    but great job Lysander , thanks!

    EDIT: Lysander if I may ask... what happened to darth 2nd version? I can't play on huge settings :(
    Thanks Lz.

    1) The error in the previous Archives zip.file was spotted by a poster several posts ago. I mistakenly gave the battlepage tga file that contains the new formation buttons to all the cultures. When I should have only given it to the Romans. Subsequently, in the archive file I previously provided. If the user wished to uninstall in a manner of speaking and used the provided archived file to do so. I mistakenly provided just the original Roman culture battlepage tga to all culture groups. End result being, let's say your playing as the Arveni. If you look at your UI, you'll notice a Roman shield where there should be a culture specific "Barbarian" shield. No big deal in the sense that it's not game breaking or anything. It's just a little detail that's rather irritating to get wrong. Never noticed it until someone mentioned it a few posts ago. The new archive.exe corrects this rather lazy mistake on my part. My apologies to all who may have this problem and may or may not have noticed it and downloaded and installed the previous download link. In the new download, the archive.exe will correct this problem if you haven't already done so for yourself. Simply run the archive.exe and you'll be good to go. Then you can install the formations of your choice afterwards, with the corrected UI, if one is so inclined.

    2) As for changes......
    Darth Formations and MC Player Formations remain unchanged.

    Sinuhet file has a few minor changes.
    Don't recall off hand exactly what I changed. Sinuhet Formations happen to be my preference and the ones I use the most. So I spend a lot of time messing around with them from time to time. My version is different than the one I upload here. As I add a few of my own formations to his code. For the upload here, I try to stick pretty much to his standard code with a few tweaks so as to not get to exotic and scare anyone off with some of my wacky formations. :P
    Other changes...

    Increased mount collision mass a bit (cavalry only). As I personaly prefer a bit more disparity between the mass of infantry and the mass of cavalry. I like the effect better as it's relative here.

    Modified Projectiles a bit.
    Noticeable in a visual sense only however. For example, archers who use fire arrows and such. A tad more eye candy during battle, if you will.

    Lastly, tweaked movement modifiers a bit more to my liking.

    Perhaps these subtle changes will suit others as well. Try them out, after all, if one wants their original EB v1.1 install back, prior to installing anything provided here that is. It's as simple as running the archive.exe provided in the download.
    Last edited by Lysander13; 07-24-2008 at 19:55.

  11. #101
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    cool but again what happened to darth second version without width forcing?
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  12. #102
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by ||Lz3|| View Post
    cool but again what happened to darth second version without width forcing?
    Gah! Forgot to answer that one.

    I removed it from the download. Frankly, because I just didn't like it. IMO, Darth Formations, relatively speaking, perform better with the width forcing in place than without. Especially considering they were coded and tested with the width forcing being a major characteristic of the formation sets themselves. One can use pure Darth, so to speak, with large settings as well. That isn't a problem. Or conversely use Sinuhet Formations which as I have mentioned happens to be my preference on any unit settings. Or if you still have the DV file from the previous download with the width forcing omitted. You can of course just pop that into your installation and used that if you prefer it.

  13. #103
    Member Member Woreczko's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander
    My apologies to all who may have this problem
    No problem mate, the joys of improved AI overshadowed this minor glitch and now I`ve just installed proper tgas :) With alex.exe and Sinuhet formations I`m finally enjoying "general`s camera" view. AI can be trusted to command a part of your army and not botch it terribly.

  14. #104

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Lysander,

    i'm using MC's player formations and #'s 5 and 6 dont seem to be working. I click the icons and nothing happens...
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  15. #105
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by mcantu View Post
    Lysander,

    i'm using MC's player formations and #'s 5 and 6 dont seem to be working. I click the icons and nothing happens...
    I don't recall off-hand which formations are #'s 5/6 and I'm unable to confirm right now. But does this happen to be the case even if the prerequisite troop classifications are present? I'll have a look at it later on tonight....

  16. #106
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    **Double Post**
    Last edited by Lysander13; 07-28-2008 at 14:59.

  17. #107

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander13 View Post
    I don't recall off-hand which formations are #'s 5/6 and I'm unable to confirm right now. But does this happen to be the case even if the prerequisite troop classifications are present? I'll have a look at it later on tonight....
    they're the roman formations...
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  18. #108
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Are your legions set up in terms of units the way they are shown in MC's readme.txt?

  19. #109

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    i'm using Carthaginian troops. it used to be that the units would move to incorrect positions if i didnt have the right ratio of units. now, nothing at all happens when i click the icons for the Roman formations. The others work though...
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  20. #110
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by mcantu View Post
    i'm using Carthaginian troops. it used to be that the units would move to incorrect positions if i didnt have the right ratio of units. now, nothing at all happens when i click the icons for the Roman formations. The others work though...
    Hmmmm...Right now without being able to check it out, my guess would be there is a unit type in your deployment not allowing you access to the formation...ie..like a phalanx capable unit or something?

    While your here mcantu... I was wondering if you've seen this thread.....
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106085

    As I recall, your a busy beta tester for several mods, if memory serves me correctly. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on what was discussed there. Particularly concerning Sinuhet Formations as it happens TIC uses them as well with pretty much Sinuhet's original code in place. Any thoughts?

  21. #111
    EBII Bricklayer Member V.T. Marvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    I just want to say thank you for this mod, Lysander13 - I have istalled it in mid-campaign and it works just fine (the Darth Vaders´s version).

    Just a little suggestion - because a lot of use other mini-mods or are doing some minor changes themselves in various EB files, it would be fair and usefull to indicate (in some readme) exactly what files were changed (if there are any other than descr_formations.txt) and how in order to allow for compatibility with other modifications.
    Last edited by V.T. Marvin; 07-30-2008 at 10:15.

  22. #112
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Thus far, Sinhuet's formations do appear to be a big improvement on DarthMod and the original EB ones.
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  23. #113
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Thus far, Sinhuet's formations do appear to be a big improvement on DarthMod and the original EB ones.
    I've just had to reinstall, I think I will give Sinuhet's a whirl this time to see if they are better than Darth's, which I have been using for quite a while and prefer to the EB formations.
    Last edited by johnhughthom; 07-30-2008 at 18:51.

  24. #114

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    lysander13,

    i'm really liking Sinhuets formations. armies actually stay in formation as they approach. is there any way to get them to not run the whole time as they approach?
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  25. #115
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    does sinhuet's formations work only with huge sizes? as darth does?

    cause I really dont like the thining of the lines when using smaller sizes
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  26. #116
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    I just want to say thank you for this mod, Lysander13 - I have istalled it in mid-campaign and it works just fine (the Darth Vaders´s version).

    Just a little suggestion - because a lot of use other mini-mods or are doing some minor changes themselves in various EB files, it would be fair and usefull to indicate (in some readme) exactly what files were changed (if there are any other than descr_formations.txt) and how in order to allow for compatibility with other modifications.
    Your quite welcome V.T.
    As for a readme. I intended to put one in there. In the end, it seems i forgot. If in the future if i happen to add or change something, i'll be sure to include one.

    Originally Posted by mcantu
    lysander13,

    i'm really liking Sinhuets formations. armies actually stay in formation as they approach. is there any way to get them to not run the whole time as they approach?
    Glad you like them mcantu. Armies keeping formation as they approach is one of the characteristics of Sinuhet Formations that makes them my personal preference. It can actually lead to a surprisingly good coordinated attack from the AI at times. As for a way to stop them from running as they approach...... Unfortunately, not that i'm aware of. When they go into attack mode, as in to say, when the attack formation in the formation set is toggled ( or sometimes it could be attack/defend ). It seems to me the AI tends to run it's units to get into position to launch it's attack. Not all the time mind you, but often enough. When it is not running it's units towards you, rather marching, attack hasn't been toggled yet and it's using the approaching formation and hopefully keeping a good order. IMO, Sinuhet Formations handle's this really well. It isn't always absolutely clear to me when the AI goes from attack/defend to attack but it runs it's units in both. At least this is how it seems to me anyway. In other words, the AI running it's units, isn't controlled by formations calling for it in the code, not directly anyway. In the sense that you can shut it on or off at will with the code. Rather it is directly associated with the formation the AI chooses....ie...defend/attack-defend/attack...and depending on which one the AI chooses....It chooses to run it's units or not....or at least this is how i think it works.

    Originally Posted by ||Lz3||
    does sinhuet's formations work only with huge sizes? as darth does?

    cause I really dont like the thining of the lines when using smaller sizes
    Sinuhet works just fine with any unit sizes. Width forcing is not used in Sinuhet code. So you will not have the thinning of lines effect.

  27. #117
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    which files are related to cavalry mass? I'm not sure if I'm liking it a lot ,you'll se I'm an infantry guy and I'm facing parthian armies

    that asides , wow sinhuets are really awesome! so does the new proyectiles appearence...

    may I ask if you did them or you fond them somewhere else? perhaps I could find other interesting stuff there
    Last edited by ||Lz3||; 08-01-2008 at 07:10.
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  28. #118

    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    i have a bug report, or... sort of.
    seems as i'm the only one getting this problem it may be related to my computer, but i'll post it here anyway.

    I'm using a clean install of rtw 1.5 with eb 1.1, and i installed the darth and mc formations afterwards.
    When i try to start either rome or eb after that, the game passes the initial small red rome splash screen and just before the fullscreen loading screen, the computer crashes with a blue screen of death.

    This happens each time i try to start the game after i installed the formations, and continues after i revert using the archived files installer.
    I thought it may just be something wrong with my rtw, so i spent an hour reinstalling rome, the patches and EB, after which the game was up and running perfectly again.
    But as soon as i reinstalled just the MC formations pack this time, the blue screen crashes reappeared.

    help...

  29. #119

    Unhappy Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    update on the bug:
    seems as the problem is not just occuring with rtw and eb... whenever i try to view a video file, be in bf2 intro, rtw, or vlc player the computer crashes and restarts
    Last edited by Carlez; 08-02-2008 at 19:35.

  30. #120
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI Battle Formation Mods

    Originally Posted by ||Lz3||
    which files are related to cavalry mass? I'm not sure if I'm liking it a lot ,you'll se I'm an infantry guy and I'm facing parthian armies
    descr_mount is the file related to the mass of mounted units. If you prefer to revert back, simply copy paste this file from the archive to play with the original cavalry mass settings. Though i would suggest a foe like the Pahlava benefit from having "heavier" mounts.

    Beware of the Grivpanvar.......

    that asides , wow sinhuets are really awesome! so does the new proyectiles appearence...

    may I ask if you did them or you fond them somewhere else? perhaps I could find other interesting stuff there
    After messing around alot with projectile settings (for visual effect only). The majority of the settings are EB's for the most part. I only changed a few and the changed values i settled on are the ones i like from SPQR.

    @Carlez
    I just downloaded and installed everything with no problems. Used the archive.exe and returned my install to 1.1 status with no problems. Your problem is definately on the user end and has nothing to do with this download especially considering your second post. Perhaps you'd like to post in detail the problems your having here.....
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=132

    As your problem sounds like a user end problem and not one that's mod related.
    Last edited by Lysander13; 08-03-2008 at 17:10.

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