I nearly forgott

[Byzantine_Dragon]

I nearly forgot my original reason for writing. The colour scheme

Either use bright (rich) colours like in vanilla across the whole unit roster or use realistic colours like in RTW Realism mod, only blend them to look more uniform.

Generally the Unit design In EB1 is very well made with great use of shield and icon art and few exceptions (Light Hoplites [Skirmisher ones] they look really wierd).
Keep up the good work here but note the need for a uniform colour system
Vanilla e.g.
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/romeTW_e32003_007.jpg

*In real life soldiers wore more white and brown than any other colour because of the expense associated with die

If you have an army composed of too many different units its difficult to differentiate you units from the enemies when your staring at a gypsy fashion show.

_While keeping units anchored to historical limitations, try making them look more like soldiers (i.e. Grimy savages). The idea behind those helmets was to make soldiers look taller and less human (Same goes to Vanillas slicker armor design)

[bovi]

Oh dear, you've really stepped in it this time.

[Byzantine_Dragon]

An army of drag queens

[Foot]

We would certainly never go the way of vanilla (though there is a certain proponderance of faction colours for factional units).

If you have any suggestions for particular units, as to how they could be more historically accurate, then we are more then welcome to hear your opinion as long as you bring sources with you. Blanket statements about the need for changes in the units are quite impossible to deal with, especially because you can't really back it up with evidence.

In our internal forums we have a thread devoted to the dyes and colours available to the peoples of our time and their cost for the time. Poor units only get poor colours and rich units get richer colours. We don't half-arse this part of the mod.

Foot

[Byzantine_Dragon]

I'm being serious

[Foot]

I'm being serious

Never said you weren't, sir. However, my response still stands. Historically armies didn't have uniforms in our periods, sides were decided by banners and knowing who your friends were. We won't be going the vanilla route.

As to your other suggestion, we consider all our unit work to be of the highest standard with regards to their historical accuracy (which means we admit when we've got it wrong and attempt to change it asap). Your suggestion that our work is not historical with regards to our use of colours lacks evidence, whereas we have tonnes our side. If you have a serious problem with a particular colour being used or a particular unit then you will need to tell us which one and show evidence before a discussion can take place.

Foot

[Byzantine_Dragon]

1. Historical evidence is not always conclusive but still open to scrutiny and exception

2. Iberian light spear-men have a nice colourful mow hawk

3. I mentioned before I'm not attacking or mortally criticizing EB, I happen to really like the mod, it does so many things really well. Put the knife down sir.


4. I used the Vanilla colour example to show that factions look better / are better distinguished when colours blend together (Mix of light bronze, brown and white with Iberia for example)

Notice the colour scheme with the Luntosante (SPAIN) and how it blends very nicely with the other native units. Same with Iberia.



5. I'm just giving an observation as a user and avid (abstractive) history student, in other words feedback. You can do whatever you want with it

[Geoffrey S]

Calling eb units "an army of drag queens" is feedback?

[bovi]

I'm being serious

Using words like "gypsy fashion show" and "army of drag queens" is... not serious. It's offensive. That is the reason why the knife is up sir.

Pick a unit and tell us what is wrong with it and how it would be better, with evidence, and we'll probably even change it.

[Foot]

1. Historical evidence is not always conclusive but still open to scrutiny and exception

Never said differently.

2. Iberian light spear-men have a nice colourful mow hawk

If you don't like it then you will need to put forward evidence to say why that is wrong, otherwise your argument is just one of aesthetics, which we are really happy with.

3. I mentioned before I'm not attacking or mortally criticizing EB, I happen to really like the mod, it does so many things really well. Put the knife down sir.

And? Never said you were. And if responding to your original post was considered as putting the knife up, I'm both very sorry and rather confused. I certainly never wrote with the intention of being aggressive.

4. I used the Vanilla colour example to show that factions look better / are better distinguished when colours blend together (Mix of light bronze, brown and white with Iberia for example)

Notice the colour scheme with the Luntosante (SPAIN) and how it blends very nicely with the other native units. Same with Iberia.

So you criticize our aesthetic appreciation. Fair enough, but we disagree. We give our skinners a lot of leeway when it comes to what colours to choose, and we trust and like their final output. You seem to suggest that we don't give aesthetics consideration; we do. That you don't like it is fair enough, but we are happy with what we have and don't intend to change things.

5. I'm just giving an observation as a user and avid (abstractive) history student, in other words feedback. You can do whatever you want with it

None of your criticisms so far in this thread have been to do with history, you will need to supply evidence for that. You have in fact been observing as a fan and someone who appreciates art. You don't like the aesthetics of our units, we disagree and do like them.

Foot

[Byzantine_Dragon]

Stop calling me sir, the greeks and Selucids looks all over the place with their colours

Its a figure of speech for the overall look of any diverse army. There is no theme like the one SPAIN Faction has. See Lutosante (Spain) to see what I mean) and compare to Greeks

Theres an example above (Orange hoplites)

With the hoplite, they could be armed with light brown bronze armor, uniform red for upper class units and keep the brown for levy hoplites. That way they'll all blend (Hoplite and phalanx units)



And stop being so easily offended. I know you put a lot of work into EB and understand how it can feel to be bluntly dismissed of recognition. A lot of things were done very well (Spain faction colours + Carthage overall units structure is very accurate) and overall the shield art and various other features, such as unit animations are very good, I just think certain colours could be changed [see above para].



PS. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight
... and no i'm not being serious

[Foot]

I'm not being offended, and would you prefer me to call you ma'am instead.

We have never tried to achieve uniform appearance for our units within factions, that is not an aesthetic we are interested in. Some factions which have been done by one or two modellers/skinners might get this, but we are far more interested in keeping armies diverse (and in our opinion interesting).

We are glad you have a different opinion, but we are happy with our non-uniform armies and we don't ever expect to change that.

Foot

[Ludens]

Can we just calm down here?

Byzantine_Dragon, if you want to have the units changed you should provide evidence that they looked different historically, because that's what counts in this mod. Just saying you don't like the lack of uniformity is not sufficient, since the EB team does.

Most aspects of this mod have been well thought out, so many suggestions get a "no" or "can't be done" as answer. It's not because the team does not like feedback, but because they've already thought about it and reached a different conclusion. You'll have to come up with strong, new evidence or new arguments to make them change their mind.

In this particular case, the team is of the opinion that ancient armies generally did not have an uniform colour theme, and that this should be represented in the game. If you want the introduction of a uniform colour you'll have to provide evidence that was indeed the case, historically, for each and every faction and unit. Reskinning all units is going to be a major undertaking, so you'll have to come up with some strong evidence.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Simply put: please do write down what units (and not "Thos flashy orange sods" or something) rather "Hoplitai Haploi" or "Levy Hoplites" (note, the levies aren't orange sods; but I do think you already knew that anyway).
Then write down what you don't like about 'em.
Then write down what you would prefer instead.
Then write down any sources you may have to back your claims - if any.
Then always keep in mind we are teh source demanding. Without source, most likely no change - unless you really can build 'a case'.

It is vital that you leave no room for misinterpretation here. Otherwise this entire thread might just end up locked (I do get the feeling that 'senistivities are being exchanged' here); and who would want that?

[Bootsiuv]

You would rather their units looked like vanilla? Ugh.