This topic is for the Spanish faction in Kingdoms expansion's Americas campaign.
This topic is for the Spanish faction in Kingdoms expansion's Americas campaign.
Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.
Thus far, the nice thing about being New Spain is that you don't have to care about your ethical standing with any of the other factions. Feel free to break alliances, loot and exterminate cities, and other atrocities. There is no Pope to excommunicate you in The Americas.
My first step was to ally with the Aztecs. They simply have too many cities and armies to fight in the beginning unless you are feeling adventurous. Instead, I just helped the Aztecs wear down their multiple enemies and sneak in front of them to take the cities.
New Spain will be overloaded with money after only a few turns, and cheap mercs will become the backbone of your armies. And by backbone, I mean the meat you throw at your enemy while your good units like conquistadors and muskets wait. Your good units will be mass-produced in Cuba at first, creating a multi-turn wait for the next premium stack. You should also change your capital to a city on the mainland, so that you can use reward units instantly.
By taking new cities, Spain will reward you with titles and large sums of money, from 5k to 15k to beyond. You also gain the ability to build advanced buildings. So it's really in your best interest to be on a total path of destruction and conquering.
The Mayans are a tasty target later on, and you even get a unique conquistador who arrives to help with a nice stack of Spanish units. Fill out the rest of the stack with cheap mercs and he can begin to pick away at the Mayans.
I just got the event that introduces France, so I haven't run into them yet - but I'm eager to actually face an enemy who wears armor.
I took an entirely different track as New Spain. The campagin objectives are elminate the Maya and Aztecs. This in mnid I decided not to ever ally with either for any reason. I decided to think like Hernan Cortez. Ally with the Aztec's neighbours lend my guns and steel where needed and let the natives kill each other. Worked well. The Tlaxcallans, Tarasans, and Chichimecs all welcomed by friendship and gold. And it became very appearant that for all their apperance of force the Aztecs are a paper tiger. They had serious trouble dealing with the Tlaxcallans (who start with 1 city, who grap their rebel neighbour to the south in the first 5 turns). And the Aztecs lost ground to the Chichimecs and Tarasans in the north. Add to this that paid off with trade rights and map info the Aztecs will leave you alone till you start something leaves you fit and ready to deal with your real threats. New France and the Maya. The Maya are as agro as the Tlaxcallans and you are in their way. I've had trouble keeping them off my arse and lost a settlment to them. New France shows up in Florida. I was trying to get a NA foot hold and got fed a plate full of my buttocks with all the trimmings by New France. Kicked my out of Florida and Promtly named the village I was holding Fort Caroline.
Militarily New Spain is flat footed till your Viceroy is at least a Viscount. By then you can build a full tech Minor city. Your stuck with Pike and Sword militia. Plus dismoutned conquistadores at large town level. Guns come with either Count or Marquis (I haven't goten that far yet).
If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.
VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI
I came, I saw, I kicked ass
Yup. Most of the factions in the campaign are predisposed to be hostile towards the Aztecs, so it's easy to take advantage of. Try playing as the Aztecs, and you'll see what a pain in the arse the Tarasans really are.And it became very appearant that for all their apperance of force the Aztecs are a paper tiger. They had serious trouble dealing with the Tlaxcallans (who start with 1 city, who grap their rebel neighbour to the south in the first 5 turns). And the Aztecs lost ground to the Chichimecs and Tarasans in the north.
Maya on the other hand, starts out totally unhindered, and will quickly grow into an unstoppable monster if you give them time to collect enough settlements.
I agree, I'm now into my second campaign as the Spanish.
Expansion east from Vera Cruz is critical. Take as many of those rebel settlements as you can before the Mayans or Aztecs get to them. This initial rush will leave you vulnerable to the Mayan attack, but by the time they start to attack you, Spain will send you another army in their rear near Chetumal. This should be enough to help you hold the line and then crush the Mayans completely. Rely on local mercenaries as cannon fodder, and preserve your Spanish troops as much as possible as they are very hard to replace.
The Aztecs have remained remarkably well behaved. Even remaining neutral, they don't appear to be interested in starting hostilities. My defense plans have relied on the Aztecs being occupied with their own problems, and it appears to be holding true. The same cannot be said of the Tarascans or the Apache.
Alliances with the other Mesoamerican factions are desirable and advantageous. Not only can you quickly get maps of their areas, but the Tarascans are rapacious and will eventually betray you. Having good relations with the smaller factions will keep them on your side, and you need the alliances to keep a steady flow of troops.
The mercenary element is very interesting as well. You need alliances with the natives in order for your mercenary pool to fill, so try not to piss off too many people at once. You simply can't produce enough Spanish troops to carry out campaigns, and supplementing those good troops with cheap local cannon fodder is absolutely essential.
European competitors will arrive. The French arrive with two stacks in the Florida area. They are too far away to worry about for a long time, and you can win the game without ever encountering them. They appear to be there to give the Apache a way to "tech up" by providing horses and firearms.
The English on the other hand appear totally at random. My first game they appeared near Miccosukee Camp. My second game they've appeared in the Yucatan. No sensible appearance logic that I can see as yet.
I'm not sure if this is too obvious, but a nice way to totally annhilate your enemies when using your musketeers: Use a normal 2-man deep line and shoot from afar. As they close in, rush your infantry forward to keep your muskets out of the fray. Slide the musketeers to either side of the fighting and set your lines up sideways, boxing the enemy in between two sides of bullets and one side of infantry.They should break within seconds and take huge losses.
Quick question about native mercs: Obviously hiring for big fights as MCF (mass cannon fodder). BUT hold onto them after the battle or disband the stack and just higher again when needed?
So far I've timed hiring them with the capture of a settlement that I have been tasked to so therefore my hiring costs are more than covered by reward. So do I keep the stacks and avoid future hiring costs but pay the upkeep or disband them and take another one time hit? Basically I want to do whatever is cheapest.
higher = hire
I think the upkeep for the mercs are minimal in that campaign, like 30 a turn. So they can be useful to keep the population happy and to throw at enemies.
I keep them. Not only are they useful for garrisoning occupied towns, allowing me to continue the conquest, but they gain decent experience. That comes in handy later on. Once I can recruit Spanish troops for a garrison, though, I disband the mercs.Originally Posted by upthehammers
The upkeep of mercs is somewhere around 100 per turn. That is higher than of most Spanish units. Even dism. conquistadores cost 75 per turn.
Send your explorer to the Aztecs and buy all their cities in exchange for an alliance and some 18000 per turn (3 turns). If you haggle it is possible to get it cheaper. The Aztecs are almost gone and after four turns your economy starts to work if you make Vera Cruz you capital. Finish the Aztecs and prepare for the Mayans. All cities can produce conquistadores in a few turns so that won┤t be difficult.
They give you all their cities (minus capital) for just that?
Yep. Just retried it and I had to pay this time 15,000 for three turns. They are getting cheaper.Originally Posted by Benandorf
On the contrary I think the native mercs are great for garrison duties. It seems like the number of soldiers rather than quality or number of units count in pacifying, and the mercs who cost 100 in upkeep come in units of 75 on normal size, compared to 75 for 30 (or about 190 for 75) for dismounted conquistadors or 100 for 60 for the pike militia that is the natural garrison unit for Spain (what else can pikemen be used for when the enemies have archers aplenty and no cavalry). So native mercs actually seem to give the most bang for the buck in garrison duties, with their highly competive upkeep/soldier ratio.Originally Posted by Monsieur Alphonse
Militia units have free upkeep. I haven't noticed that larger units are better at keeping public order. Pike militia are a waste of money. I also don't use Tercios.Originally Posted by Zaleukos
The usual ratio I use is one pikemen unit for every three swordsmen units. I keep the swordsmen on top of my walls and the pikemen on the ground. The pikes do a decent job of filling in the gap left by an enemy battering ram, at least until you can get some real melee units in the fight. I always try to keep my swordsmen on the walls because of the annoyances of ladder. It's also safer, since enemies can only come up ladders two or three at a time, whereas you'll have to face the whole unit on the ground.
You are of course correct about the militia, but the other observation is wrong. It is definitely the number of soldiers rather than the numer of units or their quality that determines order (and I'm fairly sure it's been like that in all the TW games I've played). To test it I started up the campaign, set taxes to very high in Havana, and put a size 30 unit there for garrison, resulting in 45% order. A size 40 unit gives 50% order. 4 size 30 units give 65% order, which incidentally is the same result as with 3 size 40 units:)Originally Posted by Monsieur Alphonse
yes zaleukos is right what matters is the number of soldiers not units, the guys who played medieval should remember the minimum limit was a 100 soldiers. so it was generally ok with a unit of peasents (100) but u could get a rebelion with three units of generals bodyguard (total 60).
I have tested it and Zaleukos is correct about the numbers. I now use militia pikemen as garrison.
So far Vh/Vh completed victory campaign, eliminated all factions but the apachean tribes who have control over all of current usa territory except florida and baja california.
A hint on teching up: do NOT build the bowyer's range/practice range and anything in that line of building. The 1st tier of gunsmith building can train Musketeers which makes your crossbowmen pretty much redundant (as they both need clear field of fire to be effective and you don't really want both of them stretching the battle line) and mounted crossbowmen also get outdated by Dragoons extremely fast since dragoons come out from the 6turn barracks (tier 5 i think- was it militia barracks).
Also, most of the enemies you are facing will have no armor which, again, ask less for the crossbow. at least muskets damage morale.
You really need the barracks and gunsmith line but do not tech up the bowmen building.
Also, exploding shots have been buffed and they are quite accurate, almost accurate as the normal shots. Thus, basilisks with exploding shots will decimate hordes of natives given the distance.
Quetzalcoatle factions (tlaxacans, tarascans, aztec, mayans) are likely to be the factions you will mainly be fighting most of the time and pretty soon you will realize that their priests and cuachiques will make your dismounted conquistadors rout pretty well, especially if they have good dread general.
I personally advise that you limit your infantry against these factions and focus more on conquistadors/dragoons/musketeers. Since they don't have cavalry you really don't need pikes to defend them, and I only use few heavy infantry to guard them. rather, try to charge their flanks, or even a frontal charge right after a volley of muskets. As much as strong your 2hp dismounted conquistadors seem they rout much faster than sun-god zealots, and if you fail at routing their army as soon as you are in melee your forces won't be able to hold it. (at least in VH battles)
Tips with dragoons:
Extremely powerful unit, great at range and not too bad in melee.
A good thing about dragoons is that they are EXTREMELY accurate. I've put them to test against mounted thunder braves, and they can beat 3 bronze chevron MTBs at a ranged duel, and MTBs have 80 unit size rather than 60 of dragoons.
However, they suffer from a really small ammunition capacity. They seem to carry about half of the ammunition of MTBs and often in battles you will run out of those musket balls fast. I suggest you turn off autofire, gallop them behind enemy lines, and fire volleys when the melee ensues - Dism. Conquistadors in front, conquistadors in the side (3~4 units per side should do it) and musket balls in the back. This should be enough to rout any army.
Another task reserved for the dragoons is precision sniping. Dragoons can fire over your infantry line (which makes mounted gunners so useful compared to infantry counterparts), their primary task will be to snipe out Priests of quetzalcoatl. These things are monsters in morale fight, and units of jaguars/eagles/cuachiques become robots of destruction with priests chanting nearby while striking terror into spaniards. And dragoons are the guys you want for the job.
Caution using dragoons: they seem to be extremely weak to archer fire even with 5 armor - probably the fact that they lack shields. If enemy fields like 13 units of aztec archers, probably one of those days where you just do a frontal charge to minimize your dragoon/musketeer losses.
After your victory over yucatan and mexico you will probably face the only remaining adversary: the apachean tribes. They are daunting as they field 80-men-per-unit cavalry, often in unending line of full stacks. For the apaches, massing conquistadors seem to work for me just fine. No heavy infantry, no heavy cavalry, no heavy anything - however, numbers and firepower is unmatched in ranged situation. Definitely do not want to go ranged vs range with them. Rather, the conquistadors seem to be the most resistant to arrow fire, with dragoons riding at flanks to kill morale. A careful note is that your conquistadors shldn't chase a single unit of mounted archer/brave to the map corner, but engage every single unit so that they pull out their stone axes instead of firing muskets at us. Their infantry should be a laugh especially if u have dragoons.
And finally... try to buy the costal cities from your rivals (whom you should be allied with everyoen except the enemy at the time - likely mayans first, then aztecs), and tech them up a bit before you launch a full-scale war on the faction. Only costal cities can tech up to huge city and have access to high-tech units/buildings so its worth it to take time to consolidate costal areas.
There, that was my impression on spanish murder/DESU/pillaging quest in the name of God, Gold and Glory. Been most fun so far
My question: whats the highest rank of nobility your faction leadre can get? I have Marquis right now and i don't know how higher i can go.
PS, I HAVE LOADED A MOD THAT CHANGES SPAIN'S FLAG TO HOT PINK. I LOVE HOT PINK. AND TIGHT LEATHER PANTS.
Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 10-14-2007 at 02:11.
On the apacheans i meant to say the apacheans don't have heavy inf,heavy calv, heavy anything...
Marquis is the highest rank.
Ah ok, I was asking because I kept getting missions that I will be granted a higher title even though i had marquis :p
Gae Ma Ki Byung:
Possibly the earliest full-armored heavy cavalry in human history, deployed by the Goguryeo from the 3rd century A.D.
After a couple of quick goes as New Spain here is my successful strategy on M/M:
My explorer sets off to get alliances and trade with the Tlaxcalans, Tarascans, Chichimec and Apachean. He also got trade with the Aztecs and Mayans.
Hernan immediately sets off east along the coast and takes Coatzalcoalcos (rebel), Potonchan (rebel), Xicallanco (rebel), Compech (mayan), Uxmal (mayan) and Chichen Itza (mayan). Settlements are attacked immediately as he has a culverin and he recruits native mercs for the assaults and to garrison the new settlements.
At the same time Pedro sails southwest and takes Chetumal (rebel), Altun Hon (rebel) and Tikal (mayan). Settlements are attacked after 1 turns siege equipment is built and he recruits native mercs for the assaults and to garrison the new settlements.
This 2-pronged assault nets New Spain 9 new settlements by the end of turn 9 and the Mayans are destroyed.
Whilst these settlements are being developed the surrounding rebel settlements can be taken at leisure. These are Quirigua, Trugillo and Tlacochcalpan to the east and Yaschilan, Xelaju and Tuchtlan to the south.
Now I sat back and built up my settlements for a few turns. Because of their location Vera Cruz, Chichen Itza, Quirigua and Havana were prioritised for military development.
Military forces were moved to the west ready for an assault on the Aztecs whilst additional forces were moved to the east to defend against the English.
Eventually when my military forces were ready I moved against the Aztecs, destroying them on turn 41. To get the required number of settlements I also had to continue on to the Tlaxcalans who were destroyed on turn 45; as well as taking a couple of Tarascan settlements. I also took a settlement from France as requested. The English landed but did not attack due to my defencive forces. Victory was achieved on turn 47.
- Use a lot of watchtowers and guides. My guides went before my main forces especially in the forested mayan area. This stopped a lot of potential ambushes.
- I got more Conquistadors than I could handle and as they are a financial burden do not be afraid to use them.
- I kept Havana as my capital partly because Vera Cruz always gets a plague early on and also because I could ferry units to where they were needed most.
I hope you find this useful and apologies for any spelling errors on settlement names.
I'm playing on VH/VH. A couple of key things to note:
- plague, wonderfully done here. I haven't seen the plague kill a single soldier, not even a native. Now, I've completed as the Aztecs, and plague was definitely killing my soldiers.
Looks like the coders have made Spanish forces immune to the plague, which makes a lot of sense, given the historical context.
Playing the game: ramblings on the tactical game:
If you're playing on VH/VH, chances are you like to be careful with your units. Thanks to our cheap and cheerful "rent-a-merc" service, this is no longer a problem. An unending horde of cannon-fodder can be yours for the measly price of just 6,000 florins (full stack costs about that - same as 5 units of Conquistadors!)
I tried to avoid battles in heavy jungle, especially where I had a cannon.
You can buy a lot of what you need - cities can be had for 10k florins, without any real negotiating skills.
I was playing at high chivalry - I converted towns unless I was short of money (very rarely). Because the populations are so small, you can usually convert rather than loot, set the taxes to low, and move on.
- because the populations are so small, low taxes are better
- by the time populations become "unruly" you'll have churches coming out of your ears, so pike will still be a sufficient garrison.
This means you don't have to sit ontop of the town for 10 turns while they become accustomed to their new rulers.
Don't forget to keep your "empty" ship running. You should have one ship with reinforcements sailing FROM cuba, and the empty one returing TO cuba for the first 20+ turns.
Ramblings on the battlefield:
I found it great fun to turn up with a stack of lousy native mercs, and just hurl them at the enemy. Works a treat in seiges, where fighting through the town square is normally such a hassle.
Your little 30's of swordsmen can be reasonably effective to hold a large native force in place, so long as you have a couple of units of calvalry to ram into their backs.
Oh, regarding casualties, I found a unit of 15 - 20 conquistadors is still quite effective, and having 6 units of 15 - 20 is better than 3 units of 30. (More maneuverable.)
Crossbowmen are (as has already been pointed out) not very worthwhile. Cannon and musket are much more fun, while hordes of native archers will at least make the enemy leave his town square.
I haven't got the hang of the pike militia, but don't really feel like I have to.
All in all, for vh/vh, this has been a complete doddle, but very fun. :)
Playing Spain on VH/VH.
Early in the game I accepted an alliance from the aztecs - they bashed the tlaxcans while I bashed the mayans.
Tried a clever thing and landed one army in florida - yeah, very clever the french showed up with two !!
However they only took one of my settlements and then went north to the far north-eastern rebel settlement while I looked on nervously from miccosukee. Then another Spanish army appeared in florida (sent by the king. not me) and I used it to retake the two french settlements while their armies were walking towards miccosukee. Then strangely they marched right past my settlement and headed for Indian country. Strange, but good as I was in no shape to defend.
Looks like the french really do exist just to give the apacheans rifles ..
The only other thing to report is money - I mean moneeeeeeeeey - its now turn 52ish, I have 28 settlements and there are 5 aztec settlements left so I'm expecting a win before turn 60 - between trade and loot I have 126000 gold and it will continue to rise rapidly.
European TW was never like this !!
Get your diplomat into an aztec dialog, ally up aztecs , Tlaxacallans and tarrascans. Also offer the aztecs a whole bunch of cash per turn for all their cities. Then simply cancel the per turn aggreement in the same diplomatic session. It makes them upset but they rarely seem to break the allaince.
I take the conquistador east via boat nibbling away at coastal cities. The cannon is gold dust. Defend it at all costs.
I send the all the cuban forces to Mayan area for a fight bar a small garrison.
Switch capital to mainland so you can cash in on the 'conquistadore' bonuses quicker.
To take a native town defended by logs find the raised section near a gate. Knock out the two towers adjacent to the gates. Arrange native archers perpendicular to the ramp facing the lower wall. Arrange crossbows + muskets on the edge of the ramp with the cannon at the highest point. Use the cannon to blast the wall on the between the cannon and the town square.
The enemy should send up blocking melee forces to the new hole. Cancel fire on your ranged units and get an X-Bow unit in a good firing position and tear open the new blocking units with patient close range X-Bow salvos. I don't use time limits.
When the melee blockers are spent use the cannon to open fire on city square use explosive or solid shot as appropiate. Use 'delete' to fix your view to cannon and its shot so you can perform better with cannon.
Switch on fire on all your prepared missle units as their missle units are lured out. Use cannon rounds on explosive as they exit the city square hopefully driving them back before they get a chance to fire.
They will eventually hesitate to leave the square and be reduced to perhaps sub 10% strength.
Use a general or conquistadore to circle up thru the hole you made up to the raised gate. This action curiously brings some of the remnants out to attack. As before devastate them with you missle units.
Eventually you'll end up with a trivial number of troops in the city square which you can finish with your general ( missle ) or a firing squad ( melee).
I suggest full massacres since the above tactic tends to encourage 'winning first' virtues. you should eventually get a full dread general in no time.
How exactly do you get promoted? In all of my Spain games in the Americas I've never once been promoted.
Btw it feels good to post at the org again...I've had an absence of SEVERAL months.
Complete the missions and capture regions.Originally Posted by TheSilverKnight