Americas Campaign: Apache

[frogbeastegg]

This topic is for the Apache faction in Kingdoms expansion's Americas campaign.

[Rumpole]

Here is a guide for Americas Campaign -- Apaches. My settings were Hard/Hard. It appears that the AI factions get lots of extra money, which means that you end up facing multiple stacks per city.

The Apaches play differently from any faction in Europe. Here are the key differences.

1. Upkeep for units is almost nothing, so you can maintain almost a full stack per city(and you will need it).

2. Initially you can build only two types of unit outside your capital. You get access to the buildings meeting these goals:
Construct 20 missile units, capture 5 settlements - get Hunter's Wigwam for Dog Soldiers
Construct 50 missile units, capture 10 settlements - get Hunter's Longhouse for Koitsenko's

Construct 20 infantry units, win 5 battles- get Raider's Wigwam for Apachean Scouts
Construct 50 infantry units, win 10 battles- get Raider's Longhouse for Onde's Men

You will have these wigwams and a few of the advanced units in your starting settlement. They are all terrible on defense.

To get access to gunpowder and horses, you need to win a few battles against armies that have these technologies. The files make it look as if 10 wins are needed, but about 5 seemd to do the job.

The gunpowder and horse units are very good, especially the Thunder Braves, mounted musketeers.

3. Since your units are weak. you will often need more than a full stack to win a battle against a single stack. Be sure to check the box to let the AI contorl the reinforcement stack when you start the battle.

4. General's units are nothing special, and the AI seems to target generals. Don't be surprised if your general is the first soldier killed in his unit.

5. You cannot build units in captured cities without first constructing all your own buildings from scratch.

6. You have nearly uncontested access to about 15 rebel settlements.

7. Auto-resolve is very erratic. It seems to overvalue your early units and undervalue your later ones.

8. Your opponents will have lots of cash. They pay ransom.

The secret of success is the Warpath, which works like a Jihad. Try to call one as close to every 10 turns as you can, Remember to train up a second Piety 4 wiseman.

Basic strategy: Split your initial troops into 2 nearly full stacks. With one, head west, then down the Pacific coast as far as you can. With the other head east. Aime for 20 recruits of each type and 10 settlements captured.
If you don't know the map, turn off fog of war.

Once the French arrive in Florida, about turn 20, beat up on them. If that doesn't get you guns and hourses, declare a Warpath against a Spanish city. You should have everything by turn 40 or so.

It took me 87 turns for the long campaign (30 cities). The short one (20 cities) is much easier, since you only need all the rebel towns plus one AI opponent's cities.
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[acemutha]

Actually I just lost with apache on H/H and got all units but onde's men.
Tarascans won.
Are you sure about the requirements for onde's men ?
cuz I recruited definitely more than 50 infantry and had more than 10 settlements.

Did you actually get them?

Thx

[Mad Mac]

I think only Scouts and/or Medicine men meet the infantry requirement for Ondes Men. Just a guess, but it would explain why they're so hard to unlock.

[Rumpole]

I got the Onde's men, though it took a long time!

The Tarascans get an extra 12000 florins per turn, which lets them build unlimited troops. They also decare war when Amiable. I don't see how to beat them.

[acemutha]

What do you think about modifying the campaign script to infantry > 10 and settlement > 1 so we can see if only the scouts and medicine men count for that.

[Mithradates VI]

I got the Onde's men, though it took a long time!

The Tarascans get an extra 12000 florins per turn, which lets them build unlimited troops. They also decare war when Amiable. I don't see how to beat them.

My theory on why this is the case is to sort of imitate the fact that the Tarascans were the only culture in Mesoamerica at this point to actually smelt bronze, and use it as weapons. Since, you know, CA is too silly to actually try to create units for the Tarascans that are different from the Aztecs.

I have a friend who has an apache game going, and he says the key to success is to attack EVERYTHING and everyone, As fast as possible. He's also said that after you hammer away at the french to get weapons, he has achieved an alliance with them...and they're working in tandem against the Tarascans.

Also, he's said that Apache Braves are the key unit for victory. I'll be trying it out later, so I'll be sure to let you all know.

[acemutha]

I think only Scouts and/or Medicine men meet the infantry requirement for Ondes Men. Just a guess, but it would explain why they're so hard to unlock.

You are right !


Ok I've done some testing changing the campaign script to:

; indian_raiders_2 Recruit 50 infantry units & Win 10 battles
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_infantry_recruited > 20
and I_CompareCounter apachean_settlements_captured > 1

add_events
event counter indian_raiders_2
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_raiders_2 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

So basically u need to conquer 1 settlement and train at least 21 infantry units.
So i trained only medicine and scouts and that did the trick.
Note that if your units betray you they don't count to the sum.

[diotavelli]

First thing to realise about playing as Apaches is that you don't have to get hung up on spamming units in order to get upgrades; not to the extent of risking bankruptcy, anyway.

To explain: the units you start with are good enough to do a job for you. The units you get following upgrades are better but not to the extent that the game gets radically easier or your tactics are going to change dramatically (at least until horses and guns but these are dependent on the arrival of the French, not on your appetite for unit-spawing). That being the case, you gain very little by getting the upgrades early, so what's the point in bankrupting yourself to do so?

Your starting troops are sufficient for two stacks. One goes east on a warpath and the other cleans up down the Pacific coast. Each time you take a camp, recruit a dog soldier unit as garrison and then move on (you can normally move whilst the recruitment is ticking over if you keep taxation at normal). Keep your starting troops in the stack and you should be strong enough to take all rebel camps without resorting to mercenaries and you'll get some highly experienced warriors too. Only recruit extras units as you can afford them.

By the time you've taken all rebel camps, you'll have two highly experienced stacks and a really healthy treasury. Round about now, you'll be face-to-face with the mesoamericans and the French will arrive. Hold off the mesos and whip the French with your experienced eastern stack, plus additional troops recruited as necessary. Let the French attack you in battle and you'll take them easy enough. Soon enough, you'll gain the initial horse and gun upgrades.

Once the French are whooped, you'll have guns, horses and a full treasury. Now is the time to show your soft, southern neighbours what true Apache grit is about. Concentrate your remaining weaker troops into stacks and soften up anyone nearby; then hit them with improved troops. Keep aside one or two decent stacks to send on the Warpath against the Spanish. These can create havoc en route and should do enough to earn you the further gun and horse upgrades.

Preserve troops at all times and don't over stretch yourself: if your treasury gets bare and you have a few casualty-heavy results, you're defenceless - and remember, this never happens to your opponents as they get the cash bonuses each turn. If you're sensible, you can grow at a reasonable rate and do so in a fashion that puts you ahead of the game technologically.

Just because you can get upgrades, it doesn't mean you have to. In fact, fighting and winning with lower grade troops is more of a challenge and potentially more satisfying - plus, when you get upgrades, you feel like you've earned them, not just adopted an easy work-around.

Not a strategy to everyone's taste but it worked for me.

[fluffsuit]

ok, just wondering how to get mounted thunderbraves. i already have both horses and thunderbraves and have had them for awhile now. do i have to keep fighting the europeans? the spanish were destroyed around turn 20, guess someone killed all their warleaders. i fought the french and got the units, now they're gone too. that leaves the english who i can't find. i guess they're in cuba where i can't get to them. i really want to try the mounted thunder units out. would suck to have to start over when i almost have 30 regions.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I got them after winning three battles against the French. You have to kill/capture lots of musketeers and conquistadores. After two battles I could train mounted braves and thunder braves and after the third battle I was able to train mounted thunder braves. The French land 10 stacks in North America. Use them to get the new units. The English land in Honduras (right lower corner) to annoy the Mayans and the Spanish.

[fluffsuit]

darnit. so i guessi'm gonna have to start the campaign all over again after getting so far. i wish there was some way i could just unlock the units. like editing the save file or something. oh well.

[aimlesswanderer]

My biggest problem is that I have a serious shortage of relos (7 for 16 provinces), due mostly to natural disasters, as my family members seem to react badly if they come into contact with water.... eg 5% of the troops died, but my family member, scout, emissary and assassin all croaked it due to a flood. This has led to lots of captain stacks, which keep going rebel....

I guess they have a valid reason for not washing very often.

[Sheogorath]

Man those Aztecs are tough...
I find that the AI seems to only concentrate on one unit at a time if your army is small enough. You can inflict some serious damage if your 'runner' is fast enough.

On a side note, I really didnt have that much trouble with the Tarascans. Those 12,000 florins a turn didnt seem to even phase the Aztecs...now my only problem is that the Aztecs are knocking on my doorstep with about twenty full stacks and my friendly Chichimec and Mayan neighbors, although they've broken their alliances with the Aztecs, are not being overly helpful, even though they've got a ton of units hanging around the middle of their territory.

I've got me some horseboys now though, so we'll see about turning the tide, eh?

[Der Kuenstler]

Hello - new to this forum and the Americas Campaign and have some quick newbie questions related to income:

1) Do the Apaches ever get any units that are the equivalent of merchants that can trade resources?

2) Do they ever make use of fishing villages or build canoes?

3) I got trade agreements with two factions in one turn but on the next turn my trade income was exactly the same - 513 - why is that?

[kitbogha]

Hello - new to this forum and the Americas Campaign and have some quick newbie questions related to income:

1) Do the Apaches ever get any units that are the equivalent of merchants that can trade resources?

2) Do they ever make use of fishing villages or build canoes?

3) I got trade agreements with two factions in one turn but on the next turn my trade income was exactly the same - 513 - why is that?

1) No. Rather annoying, with better trade options you could do fantastically well with the Apaches. You may note they can't build mines etc either.

2) No. Frustrating, but probably historically accurate, they were never renowned seafarers. It would be cool to lauch raids up rivers, though...

3) Don't know. Maybe it is only there for diplomacy reasons, ie makes your standing better with other factions.

[Der Kuenstler]

OK thanks for the info - my trade income did go up eventually....

[Der Kuenstler]

OK another question: How the heck do the wisemen gain experience? My startup wiseman died and all of my new ones just sit there with one star - even when I leave them in territories with low percentage of great spirit.

[kitbogha]

OK another question: How the heck do the wisemen gain experience? My startup wiseman died and all of my new ones just sit there with one star - even when I leave them in territories with low percentage of great spirit.

I found the same thing happened to me. Frustrating. Especially when you need them to call a warpath so you can recruit infantry cannon fodder for attacks on the mesoamericans (Aztecs etc) who have lots of heavy infantry (a good way of taking them on is to use expendable mercenaries to pin them while your superior missile troops take them out).....but they can't do this until they are at a higher level. Can't think of any advice but if you find a way, do share it.

[mrx47]

I noticed that with a war member you cant build watch towers in certain provinces, while the same war member already build several watch towers in others. For example i cant build any watch towers in Coahuila. Im wondering why

[benadin]

After completing New Spain's campaign, I turned "to the other side", so I played Apache's one.

Economy.
First I noticed that provinces are really short on population, consequently even cheap buildings quickly used all the money from the treasury. Moreover unit support is cheap, but not the unit production! Taking the fact, that each battle costs you lives and units, the money is a bit issue at the beginning. War paths help a lot, however you can't make them very often. What really brings you money is taking your south neighbour's settlements. Taking a >10k population city brings you a lot of gold from Raid and from further farming. Good I never experienced high riot level.

At the beginning you are really short on infantry units. You can hire ones during warpaths, but they will eat all your money for the support after warpath is over.

Facing European factions
All negative experiences I earned playing for New Spain has proved themselves here:
1. Musketeers are of a little use - they have long recharge speed and are slow. After all they are easily bitten with your apachean scouts which can hide aside and then run for them after main forces are in battle.

2. Bombards can't hit the target from the long distance - it misses most of the time. Canon units are easily bitten with the same scout ones.

3. Cavalry need to get involved in a melee, where they are not that strong as when they are charging. Then get them killed with surrounding archers and braves. The best is to get cavalry charge in a rough terrain (hills, trees, buildings), so charge effect is minimized.

4. Crossbows need to be attacked by melee units, - they loose hand to hand combats.

5. The most challenge remains for the heavy armored infantry. Envelope them with your infantry having medicine men chanting behind and braves throwing morale killer spears. In my case they simply route after I got won with all other units and applied described technique.

[Bilgediver]

Right now I've pretty much conqered all but the last few settlements, I'm competing with the Mayans to see who finishes first (I actually got a message saying the Mayans were about to reach their winning objectives!)

All European factions have been destroyed, I destroyed the French, the Mayans must've destroyed the English and the Spanish. They destroyed the Aztecs too, they didn't last long.

What's weird is that the Tarascans replaced the Aztecs. I easily forayed into Chichimec territory. I sent armies down the west coast of Mexico and got in through the first back door into Tarascan Territory. But now am having a HELL of a time fighting the Tarascans. I'm going for the copout, and playing like I'm the Sarmations/Scythians/Armenians by using full stacks of Mounted Thunder Braves. Even Onde's men are overrated, as they just get wiped out due to their low armor. The problem is the Tarascans due to their bonus keep fielding stacks and stacks of huge ass armies (like the other Roman Factions in RTW), and almost all of them are archers (And they keep trying to get into shooting wars, they just can't learn that they can't compete against muskets). The Chichimecs are destroyed, I'm 2 cities away from winning but now I'm worried about fighting aginst the Mayans.