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Thread: 7 Cultures

  1. #31
    Member Member cyberVIP's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Quote Originally Posted by gamegeeek2
    How about:

    Iberian-Caucasian (language links; tentative) Iberi, Lusotanaan, etc.
    Greco-Roman (they are very similar) - Romani, KH, Maks, etc.
    Indo-Iranian - Baktria, Pahlava, Pontos, Hayasadan
    Celtic - Casse, Arverni, Aedui, Belgae, Celtiberi, Norici, etc.
    Germanic - Sweboz, Heruskoz, etc.
    Afro-Asiatic/Semitic - Sab'yn, Ponnim, Feenikim, Aithiopkoi, etc.
    Paleo-Balkan (includes Balto-Slavic, heritage links) Getai, Thraikioi, etc.
    Hello, my 50 cent coin:
    change Iberian-caucasus(what exectly do u meen i wonder) with NOMADIC, couse minimum 2 factions has it: Sarmatae and Saka (+emerging Yezhi). By the other hand there are almost no differences between CELTIC and IBERIAN `cultures` if you compare it with nomadic.
    AND give Saba NOMADIC culture. This gives logical freedom to SEMITIC culture to spread out around mideterranium basin (ponnim colonies).

    p.s. We are understand `way of life, menthality, way of worship` as `culture`, aren`t?
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  2. #32
    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Saba are semitic already and IMO the team should keep the cultures as they are.
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  3. #33
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    .
    ...and they weren't nomad anyway.
    .
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  4. #34
    Member Member Cyclops's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Perhaps religion could be used to represent political organisation?

    We have 7 slots, which is more than enough.

    You could have a number of systems represented:

    Democracy (Certain Greek States)

    Tribal (many babarian settlements and factions, early Pahlav)

    Monarchic (Diadochi, perhaps Averni, late Rome)

    Republic (Republican Rome)

    Commercial Oligarchy (Carthage, maybe settlements like Rhodes)

    Theocratic (no actual factions, but present in Egypt and maybe India)

    Each faction could have a starting "religion" (=politcal organistation) but this could change: Rome was rent later in our period by oligarchic, democratic and monarchic tendencies. The Koinon Hellenion faction woukld be rent from the start by Oligarchic/Democractic clashes

    There would be buildings that gave a conversion bonus to a particular system: tribal assembly gives 5% to tribal, tribal confederation gives 10% etc.

    Theocratic cities could start with a "temple administration" building giving a huge happiness bonus to offset the religion penalty, but a massive conversion bionus: Egypt was notorious impervious to outside influences until the advent of christianity. however if you want to "politically convert" that population by destroying the theocracy then you will undergo massive upheaval.

    Other buildings could skew a settlment toward a political inclination. Eg a stable building could give a 5% conversion rate to oligarchy: if you have equites, they get organised politically. A "grain dole" building might tend to democracy (as well as hapiness), as would a hoplite barracks (but not a phalanx training ground)

    Camillan and Polybian barracks might give an oligarchic bonus, but Imperial barracks would give a monarchic bonus.

    Certain buildings could give ancillaries witha political conversion bonus (demagogue, magistrate, tribal chief etc), faction leadership could give a conversion bonus etc.

    I'm making this up as I go along, I'm guessing there's not enough buildings to make it work, but it occurs to me that its a way of getting some shades of political colour into the game. Gives a player a reason to massacre certain cities, whiuch was present historically (eg Alexander with Thebes, Rome with several enemies).
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  5. #35
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Aw, so close to what I have in mind.

    Foot
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  6. #36

    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    I'm a bit confused about the theocracy bit, though - didn't everyone worship a god or gods?

  7. #37
    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    It means they thought of their king as a god, like the Arverni and ancient Egyptians did. Aedui would possibly be a democracy as well.
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  8. #38

    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    The Aedui would be closer to a republic, though that isn't really totally it either; the upper government echelons would be a 'republic' (elected officials, magistrates, etc.), but they were organizational over local kings and other nobles. The Arverni would be closer to a monarchy than a theocracy structurally.
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  9. #39
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Smile Re: 7 Cultures

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    Perhaps religion could be used to represent political organisation?

    We have 7 slots, which is more than enough.

    You could have a number of systems represented:

    Democracy (Certain Greek States)

    Tribal (many babarian settlements and factions, early Pahlav)

    Monarchic (Diadochi, perhaps Averni, late Rome)

    Republic (Republican Rome)

    Commercial Oligarchy (Carthage, maybe settlements like Rhodes)

    Theocratic (no actual factions, but present in Egypt and maybe India)

    Each faction could have a starting "religion" (=politcal organistation) but this could change: Rome was rent later in our period by oligarchic, democratic and monarchic tendencies. The Koinon Hellenion faction woukld be rent from the start by Oligarchic/Democractic clashes

    There would be buildings that gave a conversion bonus to a particular system: tribal assembly gives 5% to tribal, tribal confederation gives 10% etc.

    Theocratic cities could start with a "temple administration" building giving a huge happiness bonus to offset the religion penalty, but a massive conversion bionus: Egypt was notorious impervious to outside influences until the advent of christianity. however if you want to "politically convert" that population by destroying the theocracy then you will undergo massive upheaval.

    Other buildings could skew a settlment toward a political inclination. Eg a stable building could give a 5% conversion rate to oligarchy: if you have equites, they get organised politically. A "grain dole" building might tend to democracy (as well as hapiness), as would a hoplite barracks (but not a phalanx training ground)

    Camillan and Polybian barracks might give an oligarchic bonus, but Imperial barracks would give a monarchic bonus.

    Certain buildings could give ancillaries witha political conversion bonus (demagogue, magistrate, tribal chief etc), faction leadership could give a conversion bonus etc.

    I'm making this up as I go along, I'm guessing there's not enough buildings to make it work, but it occurs to me that its a way of getting some shades of political colour into the game. Gives a player a reason to massacre certain cities, whiuch was present historically (eg Alexander with Thebes, Rome with several enemies).
    Quote Originally Posted by Foot
    Aw, so close to what I have in mind.

    Foot
    Cyclops is blessed.
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  10. #40
    Jesus Member lobf's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Great idea, cyclops.

  11. #41
    Member Member Cyclops's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Thanks guys, but its all wind at the moment as I haven't thought it through and lack the modding skill to do anything about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by strategos alexandros
    It means they thought of their king as a god, like the Arverni and ancient Egyptians did. Aedui would possibly be a democracy as well.
    Several monarchies had 'god-kings" but I'm thinking more of societies where the administration is in the hands of the priests, rather than the priesthoods in the hands of the administration.

    Babylon or Minoan Crete prior to our period, Egypt and possibly parts of India had a society where big temples acted as administrative units, landlords, meted out justice etc.

    In Rome or Athens leading men became priests and it was a source of prestige, but not a seat of power.

    In order to represent the contrasting/conflicting political styles of Averni, Casse and Aedui you could have the British as tribal, the Aedui as a republic or an oligarchy, and the Averni as a monarchy. I know the Averni was an elective monarchy, but this is more about representing tendencies than absolute systems.

    You'd need to pick and assign the styles appropriately. Its cute to have tension between Sparta and Athens, but silly if Athens revolts to the Carthaginians (for example).
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  12. #42

    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Could there possibly be an emerging Judean faction to represent the Hasmonean revolt? Or is that just a stupid idea?
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  13. #43

    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzhakofeir
    Could there possibly be an emerging Judean faction to represent the Hasmonean revolt? Or is that just a stupid idea?
    Wait, sorry, posted this to the wrong thread. Ignore what I wrote.
    I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.

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  14. #44
    Member Member DoomKaiser's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Really GREAT idea but
    1)the theocratic is promblematic: Egypt din't have thocracy until Cleopatra. All the other ptolemies spoke greek and had greek customs and Cleopatra adopted egyptian () customs. Of cource the greek 'pharaohs' had 'let' the egyptians to worship them but they din't care. So maybe monarchy fits better to egypt (until cleopatra).

    2)The spread of these political forms maybe promblematic:
    If the athenians(or koinon hellenon) take an african, iberian colony or something the locals will be crazy to adopt democracy! Also in koinon hellenon there were Democracy(athens), Commercial Oligarchy(corinth,corfu,thebes-i think) , Monarchy(sparta). So if Koinon hellenon is one it will be great promblem. (the one region will affect the other). So ways must be found to prevent the spreading sometimes.

    I really find this idea great- i would never think of something like that if eb2modders solve this 2 promblems (the second mainly) then no way they don't put it in eb2
    He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: 'Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, save the Lacedaimonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia.'

  15. #45

    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Well, actually, maybe having the KH being ripped apart by different "religions" and threatening to explode at any moment (for the player, at any rate) would be a good thing? It would be a way to model disunity, stop the KH from steamrolling right from the start and force the player to "expand inwards" and stop his faction from falling apart (RWE-style, BI players)?
    Last edited by I Am Herenow; 12-14-2007 at 21:36.

  16. #46
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    But wouldn't it be weird to look at the settlement scroll and see 70% republican 29% Democrat 1% Naked and Fanatical? Though, I agree that it would be REALLY cool to have individuals be able to affect the government type in cities especially Rome.
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  17. #47
    Member Member DoomKaiser's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Quote Originally Posted by I Am Herenow
    Well, actually, maybe having the KH being ripped apart by different "religions" and threatening to explode at any moment (for the player, at any rate) would be a good thing? It would be a way to model disunity, stop the KH from steamrolling right from the start and force the player to "expand inwards" and stop his faction from falling apart (RWE-style, BI players)?
    good idea; However it won't be easy to balance.

    1)Athens generally must have a steady +democracy bonus. So that even if you (a monarchist) want , wont be easy for you to change their political views. In mtw with 2 priests is very easy to change in a region the faith they have. This is not good for the balance. Also, if in lets say cordoba(mtw2 talking) you had 1 priest and temple after 10-20 no muslims exist there! Now it would be crazy to conquer athens and make them monarchist so fast.

    2)From the opposite side athens must never have 100% democracy. I mean always there were oligarchists,...
    Generally the change must be more slow..

    3)MOST IMPORTANT: in a city where meny republicans live must be more friendly to democrats than to monarchists for example. These 'religions'(political views) must not be completely independant but must have relations:
    republic close to democracy(++)
    monarchy to olligarchy(+)
    republic to oligarchy(+)
    So if rome conquers athens then athens must adopt more easily republic than monarchy.
    He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: 'Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, save the Lacedaimonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia.'

  18. #48
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Here's a thought. Could we link unit recruitment to this like in the Brittania campaign? It'd bring up some interesting possibilities such as RPing the KH to turn all of Greece into a Spartan military camp.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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  19. #49

    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomKaiser
    1)Athens generally must have a steady +democracy bonus. So that even if you (a monarchist) want , wont be easy for you to change their political views. In mtw with 2 priests is very easy to change in a region the faith they have. This is not good for the balance. Also, if in lets say cordoba(mtw2 talking) you had 1 priest and temple after 10-20 no muslims exist there! Now it would be crazy to conquer athens and make them monarchist so fast.
    Why not just either remove priests (or sim.) or make their conversion power much weaker than that of a "temple"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomKaiser
    2)From the opposite side athens must never have 100% democracy. I mean always there were oligarchists,...

    3)MOST IMPORTANT: in a city where meny republicans live must be more friendly to democrats than to monarchists for example. These 'religions'(political views) must not be completely independant but must have relations:
    republic close to democracy(++)
    monarchy to olligarchy(+)
    republic to oligarchy(+)
    So if rome conquers athens then athens must adopt more easily republic than monarchy.
    That seems quite easy to solve (assuming the hardcode allows it): why not have "temples" to Democracy offer 25% Democracy, 10% Republic and 5% Oligarchy conversion, for example?

  20. #50
    Member Member DoomKaiser's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Cultures

    Quote Originally Posted by I Am Herenow
    Why not just either remove priests (or sim.) or make their conversion power much weaker than that of a "temple"? That seems quite easy to solve (assuming the hardcode allows it): why not have "temples" to Democracy offer 25% Democracy, 10% Republic and 5% Oligarchy conversion, for example?
    If you have 25% democracy and all the other lets say 20% in the end there will be 100% democracy i think.
    He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: 'Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, save the Lacedaimonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia.'

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